Forced "new light", but only slightly

[JOHN BUTLER]

Because remember, molesters do this in secret and they are very good at hiding what they do.

I would like everyone on here to take note of @Anna 's comment above. 

Read it 3 times. Remember repetition for emphasis ! 

Now how does this relate to the TWO WITNESS RULE ? 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Anna  Quote "  .. the main objective of ANY action would be .. "

Yes of course the main objective would be to try to prevent further occurrences of child abuse within the JW Org. 

BUT, that would be the main objective, not the only objective. 

The GB still hide behind 'laws of the land'. They only walk the one mile that have been ordered to walk (as in the scriptures) 

But the Bible says Walk two miles when ordered to only walk one. Go the extra mile. 

Anna answered Srecko's comments from her one selfish viewpoint and she made it so clear that she in only interested in sticking up for the JW Org and it's GB. 

Sorry Anna, Srecko made some good recommendations and you tried to shoot him down. 

And one answer in 'How would it help stop further child abuse' is simple.

It would make the naive congregants FULLY AWARE of the Child Abuse / Pedophilia problem within the whole Earthwide JW Org. 

Whereas right now most of then DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT 

Why ? Because they are TOLD not to visit such forums as this. Not to use internet websites that may be 'of the wrong influence' etc... 

They are either wrapped up in cotton wool, or, they are fenced in with threats from spying Elders. 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

On 2/3/2019 at 1:33 AM, Shiwiii said:

Sadly it has taken the secular courts in many countries to force this to happen.

Everything in life is action/reaction and it would be foolish to deny the substance of this remark. That said, the parallels hold true in almost all groups, the Boy Scouts even exploring bankruptcy, with but one notable exception. With Jehovah’s Witnesses, it was members engaging in CSA and leaders were deemed lax in reporting. With almost everyone else, it was the leaders themselves committing the abuse, something rare with Witnesses.

I will credit crusaders that their activity had brought this about. Once ones leave the faith, people lose track of them. It is easy to say ‘out of sight, out of mind,’ and they did not allow this to happen. They should seriously congratulate themselves.

Many have publicity stated that their ‘opposition’ is only so that Jehovah’s Witnesses will fix their ‘broken’ policies. Now that they have been fixed, one wonders if their opposition will stop, or even turn into advocacy in view of the overall benefits of the Witness faith.

Members have been given the clearest possible direction that there should be no obstacle or objection to their reporting whatever allegations or realities they feel should be reported. Few observers will hold out for elders marching them down to the police station at gunpoint to make sure that they do, even if the most determined opposers will insist upon it. Few in lands where there is respect for freedom of worship will require that elders be agents of the state.

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Everything in life is action/reaction and it would be foolish to deny the substance of this remark. That said, the parallels hold true in almost all groups, the Boy Scouts even exploring bankruptcy, with but one notable exception. With Jehovah’s Witnesses, it was members engaging in CSA and leaders were deemed lax in reporting. With almost everyone else, it was the leaders themselves committing the abuse, something rare with Witnesses.

I will credit crusaders that their activity had brought this about. Once ones leave the faith, people lose track of them. It is easy to say ‘out of sight, out of mind,’ and they did not allow this to happen. They should seriously congratulate themselves.

Many have publicity stated that their ‘opposition’ is only so that Jehovah’s Witnesses will fix their ‘broken’ policies. Now that they have been fixed, one wonders if their opposition will stop, or even turn into advocacy in view of the overall benefits of the Witness faith.

Members have been given the clearest possible direction that there should be no obstacle or objection to their reporting whatever allegations or realities they feel should be reported. Few observers will hold out for elders marching them down to the police station at gunpoint to make sure that they do, even if the most determined opposers will insist upon it. Few in lands where there is respect for freedom of worship will require that elders be agents of the state.

 

Are you deliberately avoiding the point. The TWO Witness rule is still in place. 

And I quoted Anna as saying that Pedophiles do it in secret, hiding what they do. 

So in fact the JW Org is no further forward. The Org will still allow it to happen because Pedophiles will still know that they can get away with it within the congregational setting.  

A question. If the Police / superior authorities can work on such cases without two witnesses, what can't the Org work on such cases likewise ? 

Is the GB telling it's congregants that the 'two witness rule' honestly applies to Child Victims of Child Sexual Abuse ?

If that is so then the GB are not Christian in there thoughts or actions.  Matthew 18 v 6.

 But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have hung around his neck a millstone that is turned by a donkey and to be sunk in the open sea.

Now this scripture could have two meanings, a, literal children, b, spiritually young ones / new to the wisdom of God.

However, in both cases it applies here. Physically young children would be spiritually young children too. 

[Shiwiii]

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Now that they have been fixed, one wonders if their opposition will stop, or even turn into advocacy in view of the overall benefits of the Witness faith.

Hang on just a second Tom. Do you really think this is fixed?  I mean, now it ALLOWS reporting without repercussion and not instructed to report. That is not quite the same thing. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to see that they are now allowing it to be reported, but it isn't the fix. 

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, Anna said:

Before I respond, I would like to say, and I am sure you would agree, the main objective of ANY action would be to protect children by preventing child abuse from happening.  So in view of that:

Agree in intention you want to have, but disagree in your reasoning, how publishing all possible  information's about problem is of no benefit for such a goal.

- truthful information's about all cases from past to today 

- put free space for listeners to make own conclusions and possibility to express it in responding comments, letters, talks, etc.

Disclosure info about this will help JW members to understand magnitude of this evil, and how this is reality not only in "worldly system under satan power", but is also devastating disease inside JW church with many JW members who suffer because of that. JW members, as i had seen before my left JW, in few short conversations, are rejecting this as problem, and never heard nothing similar had happened (here in Croatia, or in Germany, as one bro in telephone call from Hamburg area told me).

So, as firstly, THIS WILL HELP in that way to introduce how problem EXISTING inside JW congregations.

AFTER that, when information's made circle around all JW worldwide, they will need some time to absorb information's, and after they will need to share personal feelings, thoughts, etc. about issue. For this reason WT need to give FREE HAND for all those who want to talk about it. People will and must to come to state of awareness, awakened emotions and state of confusion and disbelief. For that reason those who "controlled their spirituality health" must give them space to TALK ABOUT. And NOT to Suppress. And not to Misguide them.

This can help JW community to take curse in which consciousness rises to a higher level, a spiritual awakening emerges from drowsiness from false security (false, conceited, imagined attitudes about self righteousness), catharsis comes, spiritual and thinking/rational purification can take position to replace most or all what is wrong. 

By this you open the door to new era. To new heart. And that would give a chance to those who seeking the truth. 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

12 hours ago, Anna said:

Would this list be posted on JW.org? And would their addresses be there too? I am sure this is actually illegal, at least in the United States. Only the Police have the right to make such a list, it's called the sex offender registry. Do you have something similar in Croatia?

I do not see need for giving addresses. Is it legal to announce the names? This is interesting legal question  for sure. Maybe initials of name and numbers how many people in this and that country made crime.

But, here comes to my mind, is it legal to announce the name of Dfd or Diss person in front of congregation if such individual not gave his/her written permission that his/her name can be publicly  announced by elders from platform ????!!!!  Does Judicial Committee asking for such permission in US or elsewhere ?????  :))))

12 hours ago, Anna said:

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

how much money was payed for various expenses   

How would that protect children?

Money would not protect children in that way, of course.

But, your question in this form about context is something i would not expect from you !!   

 

[TrueTomHarley]

52 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Hang on just a second Tom. Do you really think this is fixed?  I mean, now it ALLOWS reporting without repercussion and not instructed to report. That is not quite the same thing. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to see that they are now allowing it to be reported, but it isn't the fix. 

Everyone knows that it is fixed. The only people not knowing it are those who are convinced that Jehovah’s Witnesses are evil incarnate whose charter purpose is to abuse children, and they will not be convinced until there is a cop in every Witness home.

[Shiwiii]

18 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Everyone knows that it is fixed. The only people not knowing it are those who are convinced that Jehovah’s Witnesses are evil incarnate whose charter purpose is to abuse children, and they will not be convinced until there is a cop in every Witness home.

regardless what I think about jws in general, there is a big difference from being allowed and requiring. 

Here, for your entertainment Tom: 

 

Johnny boy is allowed to recycle his plastic, glass bottles and aluminum cans in the State of Arizona

 

in California (in certain cities) Johnny boy is required to recycle his plastic, glass bottles and aluminum cans.

 

Is this the same thing? Is the practice of  recycling "fixed" in Arizona?  

[TrueTomHarley]

7 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

regardless what I think about jws in general, there is a big difference from being allowed and requiring. 

 

The real problem is that people have children. This should not be allowed. Most parents have children only so that they may abuse them. Produce children in factories instead, and raise them in communal settings where supervisors have been vetted by authorities* so as to avoid any possible occasion for abuse.  Sheesh.

*and have certificates to prove it.

[Shiwiii]

1 minute ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The real problem is that people have children. This should not be allowed. Most parents have children only so that they may abuse them. Produce children in factories instead, and raise them in communal settings where supervisors have been vetted by authorities* so as to avoid any possible occasion for abuse.  Sheesh.

*and have certificates to prove it.

Why do you dodge simple truth in order to divert the topic to something irrelevant for the sake of sarcasm when you could just answer straightforward?  

 

[Anna]

 

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Because remember, molesters do this in secret and they are very good at hiding what they do.

I would like everyone on here to take note of @Anna 's comment above. 

Read it 3 times. Remember repetition for emphasis ! 

Now how does this relate to the TWO WITNESS RULE ? 

I don't see a problem there at all. The two witness rule is irrelevant when it comes to reporting to the police, as has been mentioned several times already. The two witness rule is only for elders handling the issue.