Jump to content

Witness

"STANDING WHERE IT DOES NOT BELONG"

Topic Summary

Created

Last Reply

Replies

Views

Witness -
Space Merchant -
293
3252

Top Posters


Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The photo MAY be a complete fake, but it is NOT probable, in my considered and educated opinion.

It seems Evans found better talent than you James. Give it a shot. There are hackers hell-bent on making a website identical to the official Watchtower website to get information on who visits that site. For what purpose, to subvert the website, or to continue a campaign of extremism. 

I guess your not a good enough talent to be hired. 😉

 

 

 

many hackers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

will not waste any further time to such dishonest approach to scripture. Therefore, please continue thinking I’m Allen and don’t reply any further.

One more thing, Allen.  Deception begets deception. I see "Billy the Kid" has adopted the easy path of deception that his leaders have taught him.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Anna said:

Also, the shadow of the supposed flag does not belong to that flag. Someone spent a lot of time trying to superimpose the flag into that picture, but still failed.

I wouldn't go that far. Someone could have superimposed the flag onto the picture, but knowing where the flagpole is from another picture now puts the shadow in exactly the right place (in my opinion). Also, I just ran a line from each known shadow projection point (corners, objects) on that front facing wall, and they all spread exactly as expected (nearly parallel, but flared as expected with low sunlight). Also notice that the edges are even attenuated as expected the further distance that the shadow travels to reach the further part of the wall from the flag. Compare that slight blurriness to the crisper shadows of the roof overhang, etc. 

That's a lot of unnecessary work if all they had to do was just not show a flag shadow altogether, or get a picture without shadows. They even caught the depth of the vinyl siding correctly and realized that the zig-zag would have to be exaggerated for the longer angle. If it's faked they got all this down perfectly. That tells me that the shape of the flag shadow itself is likely correct even though we can't see a portion of the flag making a piece of the projected shadow. If they had the abilities required to attenuate and zig-zag the Gaussian blur correctly, then they could have produced a more "expected" shape for the shadow of the invisible portion of the flag. The fact that they did not work to make it more "expected," but left a perfectly reasonable shadow anyway tells me it's not "Photoshopped."

I'm willing to suspend judgment and give more credence to the supposed branch letter's explanation. 

Also, due to my own prejudices, I have tried to be a stickler at avoiding jehovahs-witness.com, even when it comes up as the only source in Google for certain information. But I see that there is more evidence there than was presented previously on this site. For example, quoting:

"Hi, I moved during the past week and searched 21 Kingdom Halls, not including Bethel. I could only obtain a picture of a mast and a waving flag. The picture of the mast (with no flag) is of a Hall that's at Avenida México 2789 in the neighborhood of Puente Alto, Provincia Cordillera, Región Metropolitana, Chile, and was taken on the 21st of September, 2014 at around 6PM."

 

1

On this picture, I would have sworn that the JW.ORG sign was photoshopped. That would be damaging, if true, but still wouldn't be critical to the point of the picture. I found the location of this Hall on JW.ORG and on Google Street View, but can't see the sign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Witness said:

I suppose every JW child knows God doesn't live in kingdom halls also.

Just like they know nobody called Father Christmas ever comes down their chimney.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

but knowing where the flagpole is from another picture now puts the shadow in exactly the right place (in my opinion)

The shadow might be in the right place, but it's the wrong shape, in my opinion. The flag itself is laying still, but the shadow shows a flag  that is in motion. But yes, there is definitely a flag pole in the front garden of the hall. I took a look on google earth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

shape for the shadow of the invisible portion of the flag.

I think the invisible portion of the flag is still hanging down, and if it was flapping in the wind as suggested in the shadow, then the pole should be on the right side of it, not on the left of it.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Anna said:

I think the invisible portion of the flag is still hanging down, and if it was flapping in the wind as suggested in the shadow, then the pole should be on the right side of it, not on the left of it.....

The shadow will be bigger than the flag if it is spread across an oblique wall with the Sun at the shown apparent angle, say somewhere around 45 degrees above the horizontal, and 35 degrees to the left.  ThIs is called the "cosine effect", which I am well familiar with, as for decades I had a photographic darkroom, and worked with this with my very own developer chemical stained fingers, and light meters.

 The light from the Sun is radial, from the Sun, but after traveling 93,000,000 miles across Space, it is for all practical purposes of this discussion, parallel rays, and easy to predict.

It's called "ray tracing".

BillyTheKid46 may (may) be a good agenda driven Watchtower Lawyer ... but agenda driven thinking is ALWAYS delusional.

The problem is....

 ... IT'S HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS !

Write me a super-BIG check, and when it clears the bank, I will send anyone a 30 page report.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

. but agenda driven thinking is ALWAYS delusional.

The problem is....

 ... IT'S HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS !

I haven't been reading his comments, lol

The sun doesn't seem THAT low on the horizon to me....judging by the shadow cast by the overhanging roof...

however, if it is as low as you say then you may be right:

image.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Anna said:
1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

shape for the shadow of the invisible portion of the flag.

I think the invisible portion of the flag is still hanging down, and if it was flapping in the wind as suggested in the shadow, then the pole should be on the right side of it, not on the left of it.....

You are right when you say we need more angles of the shot. Optically the flag looks like it's facing left away from the pole, but now I can see (judging by the shadow xD) that it's actually wrapped around the pole with the white portion extending away to the right of the pole! And as JTR pointed out, if the sun is in that low position as he says, then yes, that will create long shadows. And as my diagram above shows, those two corners of the flag,  are exactly parallel to the same corners of the shadow. And without including a third line from the top of the flag pole to the top of the shadow I can already see it would be parallel to the other lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Anna said:

I can already see it would be parallel to the other lines.

Actually it isn't.... not exactly....so what does that mean?

spacer.pngspacer.png824128556_chileanfla 1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just as in a total LUNAR eclipse, you can see part of the Moon by light that seeps around the Earth through the atmosphere layer, albeit very dimly, the light DOES tend to fill in the shadow, so you are not looking up and cannot see the Moon.

In similar manner, the metal rod on the top of the flag pole is THIN enough and has such specular reflectivity that light has seeped behind it, and filled in the shadow a great deal ... ON THE NUBBIN.

Redraw the parallel red lines from the top of the blue CLOTH, to the top of the shadow OF the CLOTH

I suspect the FOLD in the flag, is pointed DIRECTLY toward the camera.

In a darkened room about 20 feet long you could duplicate this with a flashlight with a focused parallel light beam, by holding your hand perpendicular to the wall, and having someone 20 feet away  demonstrate the effects by moving the light up and down, and from side to side.

And the angle examples I gave were only to illustrate the idea .... grabbed out of the air based on a rough guess.

dt190315.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Just like they know nobody called Father Christmas ever comes down their chimney.

They may invite Caleb and Sophia over for tea, though.  :)

Yes, children are taught kingdom halls are "God's House".  


 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Anna said:

And here's another one with the other shadows. That flag pole definitely seems off...

What you have here is very similar to what I was about to show, but of course, I picked slightly different reference points on the flag for reasons that I thought were reasonable, but don't think would be worth the trouble to explain. The pole and flag still seem nearly perfect to me (using the points I chose). Doesn't mean much, since we should be looking for a preponderance of evidence as JTR calls it, not just a couple items here and there. But I admit that I had not seen all the supposed evidence when I questioned HQ. I presented it as if it was just a couple possible examples both in 2016 and earlier this year.

That reminds me, that on the additional view of another Hall at 2789 Mexico Ave, shown above with an EMPTY flagpole, I find it interesting that Google Street View took the picture just a few months before it became marked as a Kingdom Hall. Note that there was no flagpole in the June 2014 photo from Google, but there is one per an ex-JW (I presume) who took a picture in September 2014. This would mean that either the picture was altered, or the brothers at the Hall had installed the flagpole as a part of opening up the KH. I see no evidence that the photo was altered, especially as it was just one of several pictures of various degrees of quality.  But this would have been an easy one to alter, if someone wanted to. But then, why create a slightly off kilter flagpole. BTW, Chile has their own street mapping application, and they have recently added street view, but not with this address completed.

    Hello guest!

image.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Redraw the parallel red lines from the top of the blue CLOTH, to the top of the shadow OF the CLOTH

That line is parallel too. Although a bit difficult to see because of the fence post

image.jpeg

 

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I suspect the FOLD in the flag, is pointed DIRECTLY toward the camera.

Yes, it must be, and that's what threw me initially.

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

In similar manner, the metal rod on the top of the flag pole is THIN enough and has such specular reflectivity that light has seeped behind it, and filled in the shadow a great deal ... ON THE NUBBIN.

I know what you mean. But it's very way out....In any case, we know there is definitely evidence of a flag pole there as per Google. I think there is a phone number for the hall on jw.org. as well. Anybody know Spanish? Oh...they speak English, it's the English congregation:

Meeting times: Thursday 7:30, Sunday 11am, Chile time (GTM-3)

Tel from the USA: 001 56 32-2978789

Any volunteers? @JW Insider ? xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s unfortunate, but there are some Kingdom Halls in Chile with poles. However, it’s for Electricity.

It doesn’t take James to put a Chilean Flag on an electrical pole that is thin and looks like a flag pole. Maybe he did?

However, people around the KH are no more than happy to display their patronage. I think we can even see that in the US.

Therefore, there is no indication there are patriotic witnesses in Chile.

chile3.jpg

chile4.jpg

chile5.jpg

chile6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2019 at 3:28 PM, Anna said:

No, it doesn't symbolize anything. It advertises the website

Do JWs need to be reminded of their website?  There were a lot of little flags put to work on these cupcakes,  for not symbolizing anything.

 

image.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Witness said:

One more thing, Allen.  Deception begets deception. I see "Billy the Kid" has adopted the easy path of deception that his leaders have taught him.  

This only means you have given yourself a title that doesn't belong to people like you and James. Deception, do you know the meaning? when you come to the reality of it, explain it to James.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Anna said:

Nobody said God needs money, where did you get that idea?

The GB. God appreciates gifts of money.   “A Gift in Hand for Jehovah”  Our Christian Life and Ministry—Meeting Workbook—2018 

“Jehovah’s organization” is apparently owned by “Jehovah”.  To support his cause, it takes money.  He needs your money to make it successful.

 Voluntary giving has always been customary among Jehovah’s modern-day servants. At times, however, some have not taken full advantage of their privilege of supporting God’s cause by making donations.  W 92/1/15 p. 19

Love for God and neighbor and the urgency of the Kingdom-preaching work move God’s people “to come forward . . . with a gift in hand for Jehovahby making voluntary donations.  Wt 16/11 p. 20

If you’ll recall, the preaching work by the apostles was driven by Holy Spirit. (Acts 16:6-10) The organization  is driven by money, validating the GB’s admittance that they are not inspired; and if they are not inspired by Holy Spirit, than neither is the organization. Rev 13:15  “God’s cause” is really the desires of men, and “a gift in hand” for the GB.   God can do anything without the need for money.  He can make “the rocks cry out”.  Luke 19:39,40   So why would He have a cause in money-making schemes derived in Satan’s world; labeled a preaching work which tells made up stories about Armageddon, Christ not reigning as king until 1914, “this generation”, the “other sheep”, who is the “faithful slave”, etc….right down to the way you should dress? 2 Pet 2:3

 

21 hours ago, Anna said:

True, he doesn't, but he has given that privilege to Christ's followers: "For everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things. (Romans 10:13-15)

I am not here to make enemies but to reveal truth and expose lies.  If you will, consider reading Romans 10:6-13, and you will see that Romans 10:13-15 refers to calling on the name of Jesus.  The majority of the Jews already professed belief in God, but not in Christ.   It is Jesus and having faith in him, that Paul is speaking of.   

If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.  Rom 10:9

Christ’s true followers recognize this, but JWs have been deceived.   Just this one sample of a scriptural change by the Watchtower, helps bolster its ideals that “Jehovah’s organization” is the road to salvation. This leaves Christ who through the power of God is our only salvation, powerless, as Satan would prefer it.  Dan 8:25 Compare verse 9 and verse 13 together.

Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone of his Temple built on his body,  has been rejected for an organization.  It matters not that his name is mentioned. John 5:38-40; 2 Cor 11:4

Have you ever wondered how all the early faithful believers of Christ and the Father were able to obtain salvation without the Watchtower?

21 hours ago, Anna said:

He has given the privilege of preaching to the other sheep too. There are more of the other sheep than of the anointed now. Were the other sheep supposed to let the anointed do all the work and sit back and do nothing?

 Yes, we all can spread TRUTH; but, dear Anna, I don’t think you have noticed that I have mentioned a few times that the other sheep were the anointed physical Gentiles added to the “little flock” (Matt 15:24)  of fleshly Jews to make a new Nation of “Israel”. Acts 13:46; 10:45,47; Rom 1:16; 2:9,10,28,29; John 10:16,27; Isa 56:8; Ezek 34:23; Rev 7:17  The primary preaching is an assignment given to the anointed ones. Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9  In the time of the end, this service to God has been consumed by those not anointed. The elders have gradually taken charge of what is taught. 2 Thess 2:1-4  The message of Christ has been changed by the authority of an organization.   Instead of Christ being our sole salvation, an idol that must be served by the hands of men, has become the path of salvation. Isa 2:8   This presents a difficult decision to be made by all JWs. Matt 24:4,5,15-22 The false promise of serving the organization’s needs is offered as leading one to eternal life. 1 Tim 4:3,4; 2 Thess 2:9-12  There is no scripture to verify this.   The Watchtower has changed scripture to suit the desires of men; their voracious appetite to own, build, and obtain power over others, is manipulated by a belief in God as a driving force to win over hearts. Eccl 9:12; Amos 3:5  

We do not live under the old covenant and the early temple arrangement, but the New Covenant which is the spiritual Temple.  There is no more need for the earthly building endeavors by men.  Gal 4:26 There is no more physical temple to maintain.   

“Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as He appointed, instructing Moses to make it according to the pattern that he had seen, 45 which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought with Joshua into the land possessed by the Gentiles, whom God drove out before the face of our fathers until the days of David, 46 who found favor before God and asked to find a dwelling for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built Him a house.

 

48 However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:

49 ‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the Lord,
Or what is the place of My rest?
50 Has My hand not made all these things?’

The Jews were not willing to give up their material temple and accept Christ as the chief cornerstone of God’s dwelling.  Stephen called them “stiff-necked” for resisting the Holy Spirit.  He was stoned to death by the Jews.  Today, God’s anointed ones and companions who realize what Stephen was speaking about, and who reject “Jehovah’s organization”, are symbolically “stoned” – considered spiritually dead. 

If I have turned to Christ and the Father completely, serving as He directs me to serve, am I really spiritually “dead” in His eyes, or only in the eyes of men who want me dead? Matt 5:11;16:25; Rev 11:1-3,7

Think about it, would Christ relinquish his name as our salvation by giving this title over to an earthly polluted entity, (no organization in this world can be pure) spawned and grown in his enemy’s material world, for a mere 100 years?  Acts 4:2; Job 14:4

Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone.
This is what the Lord has done
and it is wonderful in our eyes?

43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruit44 Whoever falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will shatter him.”

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they knew he was speaking about them. 46 Although they were looking for a way to arrest him, they feared the crowds, because the people regarded him as a prophet.  Matt 21:41-46

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Witness
      I read a quote by someone who had written about the Edomites and their ‘perpetual hatred’ toward the nation of Israel, when Edom assisted Nebuchadnezzar to drag Israel away to Babylon. Ezek 35:5-9
      He said,
      “To afflict the afflicted is cruel. This is scarcely of man, bad as he is. He must be possessed by the malignant spirit of the devil, when he wounds the wounded, insults over the miseries of the afflicted, and seeks opportunities to add affliction to those who are already under the rod of God.”
      It brought my thoughts to God’s present spiritual nation “Israel” under the rule of a rebellious spiritual “Edom”, the “Gentile” Man of Lawlessness/Elder Body. 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2
      Yet, how are the anointed ones under the rod of God?
      Although Jesus Christ warned his servants of the potential danger, God has allowed His people under covenant, to be enamored by “fruit” presented by false “christs”. Matt 24:23-25 These fallen anointed ones had previously taken the first bite of Satan’s offer of “knowing good and bad”, and gaining potential to weave truth with lies. Gen 3:5; 2 Pet 3:17 Under Satan’s influence, they have paved the way to destruction, through their own acceptance of his gift, bestowing on them power and authority over God’s anointed people. Matt 4:8,9; 2 Cor 11:2,3; Isa 28:15; Rev 17:5; 13:11 
      As the last military ruse devised by Satan, a worldly arrangement is utilized to sift and ultimately “harvest” each heart. These leaders are the puppets he needed to captivate and inflict harm on God’s anointed ones, under the false pretense labeled “the truth”. 1 John 5:19; Matt 24:4,8,11; 2 Cor 11:3; Matt.13:26,30,38-41 
      By also accepting this clever offering of poisonous “fruit”, God’s people have chosen an idol to lead and protect them, instead of relying fully on God alone. Matt 7:15-20; Col 2:8; Rev 8:10,11
      God allows this sifting to occur, which reveals our choice in whom we choose to serve – either Him, with our entire mind, heart and soul; or Satan and his seemingly illustrious…lies. Mark 12:30; John 8:44  Jesus suffered under similar testing by Satan. Luke 22:31;4:5-7; James 5:10-11; 1 Pet 2:21 Satan uses a strong (of “superhuman power”) corrupt delusion that overcomes the anointed and their companions in the time of the end. 2 Thess 2:9; Rev 13:1,2,4 
      Please COMPARE the two following quotes from the Watchtower:
      "Still, as a people, “the chosen ones” and their loyal companions will physically survive the end of apostate Christendom by taking REFUGE in Jehovah AND his…
      … MOUNTAINLIKE ORGANIZATION." Wt. 11/1/15 pp. 3-7
      Can an organization that proclaims to be one's spiritual REFUGE be an effective sifting trap for Satan to employ? Amos 3:5;Ps 64:5,6
      Wt. 1974/12/1 pp. 728-734 – “The symbolic “TRAP” that Satan the Devil has set for those who trust in Jehovah God as their “REFUGE” and “STRONGHOLD”, is the EARTHLY ORGANIZATION that is OPPOSED to God’s organization, namely, Satan’s VISIBLE ORGANIZATION.”
       
      This rather confusing quote is implying that Satan’s earthly, worldly, and visible organization, opposes God’s true “organization”. Satan’s organization “traps” the unsuspecting, who believe they are putting their complete trust in God as their REFUGE, yet are duped by Satan’s powerful delusion.
      What is this quote signifying to YOU, JWs?
      The WT “mountainlike organization” is visibly distinct; and completely immersed in the operations of the earthy realm. It cannot exist without the world’s help, thus it is far from a “heavenly” organization, which would be spirit-driven by God. 1 John 2:14,15; Heb 12:22; 2 Pet 1:18 Its leaders rely fully on how they can implement not only your money, but all political and industrial aspects in this earthly realm. 1 John 5:19
      They are earthly men, without the knowledge of “heavenly” things. John 3:12; 8:23; 1 Cor 2:12-14; James 3:15; Col 3:1,2; Heb.11:1,2,8,10,16
      In the last quote, Satan knows what he’s implying, but do you? Should there be any devoted attachment to ANY earthly entity, that gives equal footing to, even outranking, our devotion to God and His Son? Isa 46:5 Can you detect the trap that Satan has so deviously set, yet has cleverly revealed in the Wt. quote? 1 Pet 5:8; Rev 12:4,13,15,17
      But notice what your earthly rulers ALSO tell you:
      Km 8/82 - “Jehovah God rightly expects each of us to maintain a DEVOTED ATTACHMENT to him AND HIS VISIBLE EARTHLY ORGANIZATION.”
      Rom 1:25 – “They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.”
      What sort of “created things”? Strong’s defines the word by saying, “in Greek writings the act of founding, establishing, building, etc.”…….
      ……THE WATCHTOWER ORGANIZATION ***** “JEHOVAH’S MOUNTAINLIKE, VISIBLE, EARTHLY ORGANIZATION”.
      It is important to learn the details of YHVH’s authentic “organization” – the anointed Body of Christ; the Temple of God and His dwelling place. 1 Cor 3:16,17 Please, endeavor to learn truth from God’s Word.
      For this idolatrous choice, spiritual “Israel” has fallen under the rule of “Babylon the Great”, the “mother” covenant of death. Isa 28:15 Spiritual “Edom” has aided the trampling of God’s Temple by imposing their given authority to ‘set themselves up’ in the Temple of God for the purpose of conquering the holy ones, and bringing the power of the “holy ones” to nothing. Obadiah 1:3,4,10; Ps 37:7; Dan 12:7; 2 Thess 2:3,4; 1 Cor 3:16,17 
      The area of Mount Seir, located south of the Dead Sea, commonly refers to the Edomite nation. When Esau moved into that area, his family mingled and intermarried with the Horite people. Eventually, they fell under the rule of Esau’s descendants and were displaced by Edom.
      As I glanced at the various root meanings of the name “Seir”, I found it widely describes a sinister place. Here are some of its descriptive connotations:
      “to sweep or whirl away”, “storm”, “horror”, “horrid”, “a horrible thing”, “disgusting”, “demon, satyr”, “to shudder in the face of something”, “to tear in two, split, divide or tear down”, “measure, calculate”, and “a means of controlled access to a walled city”.
      I think we get the picture, that through the graphic meaning of the name, we can transcend its description to the people that inhabited Mount Seir – a vicious, evil nation whose goal was to wipe out Israel. It shows me also, the similarities between Mount Seir and the “mountainlike organization” that Satan uses today to control access to the true Temple priesthood of God in the anointed ones, and to tear down spiritual “Israel”.
       
      “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you don’t go in, and you don’t allow those entering to go in.” Matt 23:13
      It is the horrifying “disgusting thing” that Jesus warned us about, and what we are to flee from, according to Matt 24:15,16; and the fourth Beast from Daniel’s visions that he describes as:
      “frightening and dreadful, and incredibly strong, with large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed, and it trampled with its feet whatever was left. It was different from all the beasts before it, and it had ten horns.” Dan 7:7
      “The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
      It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.” Rev 13:1,7
      Through its presence, the heart’s desire of each anointed one is calculated and “measured” either acceptable for life, or death. Zech 5:1-11; Amos 7:7-9; Rev 11:1,2; Rev 13:16,17
      Dan.7:25 - "He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The HOLY PEOPLE WILL BE DELIVERED into his hands for a time, times and half a time."
      Dan.11:31 - ""His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will SET UP the abomination that causes desolation."
      2 Thess 2:4 – “He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he SETS HIMSELF UP IN GOD’S TEMPLE, proclaiming himself to be God.”
      Mark13:14 - "When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' STANDING WHERE IT DOES NOT BELONG--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."
      JWs, can you understand why God allows “Edom” to wound, afflict and “trample” spiritual “Israel”?
      "'The decision is announced by messengers, the holy ones declare the verdict, SO THAT THE LIVING MAY KNOW THAT THE MOST HIGH IS SOVEREIGN OVER ALL THE KINGDOMS ON EARTH and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets over them the lowliest of people.' Dan 4:17
      Behind its pristine-looking façade, the ominous “mountainlike organization” has raised itself above God’s authentic Mount Zion, and above God Himself, in the mind of JWs. Satan has gradually transformed the position of each anointed one as powerless, by placing doubts before JWs of their ability to teach the sheep. Mal 2:7 The Wt. magazines have made cutting remarks about them; they must not speak of their anointing, they may suffer mental problems, they are not to gather together as an anointed group. They are to be scrutinized if claiming to be anointed. Successfully, over time, the Watchtower has ‘set up’ its own false priesthood/elder body to rule, plundering and trampling God’s appointed Temple priesthood. Sadly, the majority swallow down such poisonous fruit. 2 Cor 11:20
      Jesus will need to discipline his priests at his return, for apathetically accepting a head over them (Rev.3:16), other than he 
      (Eph.5:23; 2Cor.11:2-4,20; Rev.2:20; Zech.8:17). Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      They will have to be "refined" by fire (Zech.13:9; Isa.48:10; 1Pet.4:1; Eze.16:39; Rev.3:17-18; Hosea 12:6-8). Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      As Jesus says at Rev.3:19 ...
      "Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent."
      The discipline Christ brings when he returns, is not easy to perceive, nor pleasant to accept (Heb.12:5-13). 
      In fact, Christ must discipline them with "a rod of iron" 
      (Micah 6:9; Prov.23:13-14; Rev.2:27; Hosea 6:5; Jer.23:29; 5:14; Rev.11:5; 2Pet.3:7,10). 
      "Iron" is the precise identity that is trampling them, in the time of the end (Dan.2:40,34,44). 
      God allows the very Idol they are serving, to discipline, beat, and trample them. 
      That is, the Great Tribulation (Isa.5:5-6; Rev.11:6; Zech.13:9; Isa.48:10-11; 6:11-13 (Rev.11:13); Dan.12:6-7)  Pearl Doxsey – “Christ’s Return – When?”
       
      This “mountainlike organization” that rebels against the “Mountains of Israel”, the authentic Zion, will have the same outcome as wicked Mount Seir:
      Ezek 35:12-15 - Then you will know that I the Lord have heard all the contemptible things you have said against the mountains of Israel. You said, “They have been laid waste and have been given over to us to devour.” 13 You boasted against me and spoke against me without restraint, and I heard it. 14 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: While the whole earth rejoices, I will make you desolate. 15 Because you rejoiced when the inheritance of Israel became desolate, that is how I will treat you. You will be desolate, Mount Seir, you and all of Edom. Then they will know that I am YHVH.’” Ezek 35:12-15
      “What are you, mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of ‘God bless it! God bless it!’” Zech 4:7
      The way that God and Christ discipline and refine the repentant, is to allow the Master they have chosen, to mistreat them. Then the remnant, will return to their husbandly owner 
      (Jer.2:2-5,11-14,17,26; Hosea 13:6; 2:7-9,16-17,19-20; Isa.26:16-21; 40:2-3; Dan.12:7; Rev.6:11; Ps.66:12; Luke12:37; Isa.25:6; John16:13,8).  Pearl Doxsey
       
      Please, consider reading the following from Ezekiel chapter 36:
      “Son of man, prophesy to the mountains of Israel and say, ‘Mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord God says: Because the enemy has said about you, “Aha! The ancient heights have become our possession,”’ 3 therefore, prophesy and say: ‘This is what the Lord God says: Because they have made you DESOLATE and have TRAMPLED you from every side, so that you became a possession for the rest of the nations and an object of PEOPLE’S GOSSIP AND SLANDER, 4 therefore, mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord God. This is what the Lord God says to the mountains and hills, to the ravines and valleys, to the desolate ruins and abandoned cities, which have become PLUNDER and a MOCKERY to the rest of the nations all around.
      5 “‘This is what the Lord God says: Certainly in my burning zeal I speak against the rest of the nations and all of Edom, who took my land as their own possession with wholehearted rejoicing and utter contempt so that its pastureland became plunder.
      6 Therefore, prophesy concerning the land of Israel and say to the mountains and hills, to the ravines and valleys: This is what the Lord God says: Look, I speak in my burning zeal because you have endured the insults of the nations. 7 Therefore, this is what the Lord God says: I swear that the nations all around you will endure their own insults.
      “‘You, mountains of Israel, will produce your branches and bear your fruit for my people Israel, since their arrival is near. 9 Look! I am on your side; I will turn toward you, and you will be tilled and sown. 10 I will fill you with people, with the whole house of Israel in its entirety.
      “Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, BUT FOR THE SAKE OF MY HOLY NAME, WHICH YOU HAVE PROFANED AMONG THE NATIONS where you have gone. 23 I will show the holiness of My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, WHEN I AM PROVED HOLY THROUGH YOU BEFORE THEIR EYES.
      24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
      27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow My decrees and be careful to keep My laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be My people, and I will be your God."
       
       
      Pearl Doxsey, 4 womaninthewilderness blogspot
      “Trample – How Does it Happen?”
      “YHVH’s Genuine Mountain”
      “Organized Religion”
      “Where is the Temple/Jerusalem?”
       

    • By Witness
      We are all familiar with the story of Esau and Jacob.  Esau, during a moment of hunger, impetuously sold his birthright for a bowl of stew. In that one moment, we see the inclination of Esau’s mind on the earthly, fleshly needs overpowering his faith and sustenance in God. His act of eating the bread and stew showed that Esau “despised” his birthright, or viewed it as worthless, not only when filling his stomach, but indicating faith was never fully directed toward God.  Gen 25:33,34
      However, when it was time for Isaac to bestow blessings on his sons, Esau still expected to receive the birthright of the older son. Gen 27:36   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      I have a young 7-year old grandson that can be quite headstrong.  If he refuses to complete a task asked jointly of both grandsons, it is held out to him that he will lose any reward that follows.  When the task is accomplished, and the reward offered to the other grandson, the seven-year-old immediately balks and states the verdict is “not fair”, many times through tears shed over his loss of reward.  When someone in a family shows an unreasonable stubborn streak, it is not uncommon to begin searching through the characteristics of older family members and blame it on that “gene”. 
      The nation of Edom was Esau’s progeny. Edom harbored the animosity “gene” against Israel throughout Bible history.  Jacob’s name was changed to Israel, letting us see that the Bible’s later references to “Jacob”, refers to the nation of Israel.  Gen 36:1; 27:41     Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      The struggle between Jacob and Esau, which began in the womb, continued through their descendants. Even though Jacob was the younger of the two, notice the prophetic outcome of these twins, in the words of Gen.25:21-23:
      Isaac prayed to the Lord on behalf of his wife, because she was childless. The Lord answered his prayer, and his wife Rebekah became pregnant. 22 The babies jostled each other within her, and she said, “Why is this happening to me?” So she went to inquire of the Lord.
      23 The Lord said to her,
      “Two nations are in your womb,
          and two peoples from within you will be separated;
      one people will be stronger than the other,
          and the older will serve the younger.”
      What was Esau’s blessing? 
      38 Esau said to his father, “Do you have only one blessing, my father? Bless me too, my father!” And Esau wept loudly.
      39 His father Isaac answered him,
      Look, your dwelling place will be
      away from the richness of the land,
      away from the dew of the sky above.
      40 You will live by your sword,
      and you will serve your brother.
      But when you rebel,
      you will break his yoke from your neck. Gen 27:38-40.
      Edom (meaning red) was both a rugged, mountainous region and the location of Mount Seir, as well as desert and red sandstone cliffs where available pasture and land for farming practices was scarce. They imposed taxation on an ancient caravan route, as well as using sea trade routes as a source of livelihood.
       Jacob, as “Israel”, received both the riches of the earth and the spiritual wealth from God, whenever and as long as, they obeyed His direction.  Gen 27:28,29
      “Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”  Exod 19:5,6 (see Deut chapter 28)
      Although Esau and Jacob met amicably when Jacob was returning to Canaan with Rachel and Leah (Gen 33:1-4), several moments in Biblical history show us Edom’s bitter animosity toward Israel.  Edom’s king denied Israel passage through their country in Num 20:14-21; 21:4; Deut 2:4-6. However, at that time, God set the standard that Israel was not to hate or despise their “brother”.  Deut 23:7; Deut 2:2-6    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Edom came against Israel during King Saul’s reign and was defeated.  1 Sam 14:47  King David “struck down eighteen thousand Edomites in “Salt Valley”, making the survivors subject to David’s rule.  2 Sam 8:13,14  The revolts continued down to the time of Nebuchadnezzar.     Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      As a result of conflict forcing the Edomites out of their own land, (in Greek, “Idumaea”) they fled into Judah close to the time period when Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar, plundered Jerusalem and destroyed its temple. Jer 25:3-12   Judah had gravely strayed from obeying God’s voice and commandments and was suffering the consequences.  The Edomites assisted Babylon’s attack on God’s people, as well as overtaking cities and land once the Judeans were sent into exile in Babylon.  Here, we find a fulfillment of Isaac’s words:  “But when you rebel, you will break his yoke from your neck”.  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Judah’s bitter words during exile, pleading for vengeance against Edom are found in Psalm 137, with verse 7 reading:
       Remember, Lord, what the Edomites said
      that day at Jerusalem:
      “Destroy it! Destroy it
      down to its foundations!” 
      Three prophetic books speak of this event, condemning Edom and promising its destruction:  Isa 34:5-8; Jer 49:7-22; Obad 1:10-15    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Another conqueror came against the Edomites, forcing them to make a choice; either leave the cities conquered or convert to Judaism.  The grandfather of Herod the Great, who built the last temple in Jerusalem, was among those who converted. Eventually, the mention of the people of Edom phased out of historical records around 70 c.e.
      As was the converted “Jew”, Herod the Great, many Edomites allied with Rome, even becoming Roman citizens. Others took part in the Zealot wars against Roman rule in Jerusalem.  They had lost their established role as the nation of Edom or “Idumaea”, and had become “still”, unnoticed, as one of the root meanings within their name, signifies.  To this day, it is not uncommon for Edomites who converted to Judaism, to be referred to as “false Jews”. 
      Recent archeological evidence has found what appears to be temple remains in Idumaea.   Along with a few other gods, the Edomites worshiped an ancient god considered a competitor to YHWH; called, “Qaus”. With the help and derivation of other linked Hebrew words, it may refer to such descriptive terms as bow, cast out as an arrow, ‘gleamed forth’, lighting, colors, mightiness, and interestingly, even briers.   Historical records by Josephus show evidence of a priesthood as well.
      Today, we have a spiritual nation of God, called “Israel”.  They are the priests and kings of Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Rev 5:9,10; 7:4; 21:24    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Pearl Doxsey explains this nation in her article, “TWELVE TRIBES”. She describes how the “little flock’ of physical Jews and the “other sheep” of physical Gentiles combine to become one anointed  flock of spiritual Israel under the New Covenant.  Heb 8:7; Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ; Rom 2:28,29;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  
      Take note of her words, JWs!
      “ The doctrine that "other sheep" are NOT of the heavenly calling, to me, is error with an evil purpose....
      to take away the distinction between what God has cleansed (circumcision of the chosen Priest's heart by spirit) and the common spiritual Gentile.  This deceptive doctrine is the basis for allowing the disgusting thing to enter the holy place (the MAN OF LAWLESSNESS to raise himself up above the sons of God). ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )" 
      A spiritual, rebellious “Edom” exists where the Man of Lawless (of “destruction, ruin”) reigns – The Watchtower organization/“Beast”. Rev 13:1  Its ruling “kings”/false prophets have traded their inheritance under the New Covenant with Christ, for fleshly power, glory and riches in this world; riches that do not last.  Luke 4:7;12:32-34   Their new “birthright” or blessing is given by the one who offers such gifts, Satan the Devil.  Isa 28:15; Rev 17:5; 13:11 
       “Make sure that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no root of bitterness springs up, causing trouble and defiling many.16 And make sure that there isn’t any sexually immoral or irreverent person like Esau, who sold his birthright in exchange for a single meal. 17 For you know that later, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, even though he sought it with tears, because he didn’t find any opportunity for repentance.”  Heb 12:15-17
      The governing body is not only a “root of bitterness”, (Rev 8:11) but are spiritual Harlots defiling all who buy into the belief that the idol/temple, “Jehovah’s organization” is the source of salvation.   Each anointed one under its wing are the “foolish virgins” captivated and oppressed by the Harlot’s priesthood, the elder body/Beast.  As long as they are accepting of the Harlot’s wares, they too fall under the “mother” covenant of death, Babylon the Great.  Matt 25:8-13; Rev 13:7,17           Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      The Man of Lawlessness is this priesthood, and the false “Jews” and “briers” ruling over the true Temple dwelling of God, within the hearts of the anointed ones.  2 Thess 2:3,4; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 9:1-6;11:1-3  The Body of Elders presently assists “Babylon’s” kings/false prophets in captivating spiritual “Israel” with, “blasphemies against God: TO BLASPHEME HIS NAME AND HIS DWELLING —those who dwell in heaven.”  Rev 13:6   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      This priesthood/elder body has been given the authority to judge and “kill” God’s spiritual “Israel”. (Gen 27:41)  We have a repeat of Ps 137:7.  The anointed living “stones” of God’s Temple are effectively facing a threatening destruction under the  Man of Lawlessness. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      1 Cor 3:16,17: “Don’t you yourselves know that you are God’s temple and that the Spirit of God lives in you?  IF ANYONE DESTROYS GOD’S TEMPLE, GOD WILL DESTROY HIM; for God’s temple is holy, and that is what you are.”
       In the same nature as the Edomite god, Quas, the Watchtower god uses deceitful, powerful displays as if originating from the true God, YHWH. 
      From Pearl’s article, “FIRE FROM HEAVEN”:
      "When we read that the False Prophet has the ability to "cause fire to come down from heaven" (Rev.13:11,13), do you think GOD ("heaven") is giving that false prophet power to judge others by truth and in righteousness?;
      OR, do you think that Satan is empowering the "TWO-horned" false prophet (counterfeit "two witnesses") with the ability to render a  false CONDEMNATION OF THE RIGHTEOUS?  (Rev.11:7-10; 13:15; 6:9,10,11)    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      This "fire" comes "from heaven", because the point at which the false prophet receives this power; Satan has not yet been completely removed, and is still "waging war" with the "woman's" seed (Rev.12:3,4,8,13,17). He is not cast down (loses his heavenly authority) until this counterfeit fire is fully used against those righteous ones "killed" by it (Rev.11:7; 6:9,11; John 16:2; Mark 8:35), by which faithful deaths and testimony, he is cast down (Rev.12:10,11; 13:13,15,4)."  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.    
      So as is clear, yes, "fire from heaven" can be falsified, when it condemns the righteous to "death" (Eze.13:19; Jer.23:17,14; Rev.11:8). This is what the false prophet is enabled to do (Rev.9:1; 13:13,15; 6:9,10,11; 11:7-10) by means of Satan's ability (Job 1:12,16; Rev.13:2; 11:7; 9:11,1) to falsely condemn the righteous, causing counterfeit, symbolic "fire from heaven".     Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      JWs, the Watchtower is a hateful act of rebellion against “Israel”.  All within, have fallen for this great end time deception of Satan’s. 2 Thess 2:9-12 Soon, the Man of Lawlessness will also turn on “Israel’s” Harlot/false prophet, stripping her bare and exposing her sins that even they can’t tolerate.   A combined alliance of sell-out anointed “kings” and non-anointed elders will receive authority over all of unrepentant “Israel” and those with them, “for one hour.” Rev.17:7,12,13,16,17; Gen.25:30-33  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
       FLEE now! Join those of “Jacob” who have left “Babylon’s” confusion; who are repentant and eager to serve the one true God and His Son, Jesus Christ. Deut 28:20; Jer 51:6; Zech 8:22,23; Matt 24:16; Rev 18:4-8    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      “‘This is what the Lord God says: Because Edom acted vengefully against the house of Judah and incurred grievous guilt by taking revenge on them, 13 therefore this is what the Lord God says: I will stretch out my hand against Edom and cut off both man and animal from it. I will make it a wasteland; they will fall by the sword from Teman to Dedan. 14 I will take my vengeance on Edom through my people Israel, and they will deal with Edom according to my anger and wrath. So they will know my vengeance. This is the declaration of the Lord God.”  Ezek 25:12-14
      “For the day of the Lord is near,
      against all the nations.
      As you have done, it will be done to you;
      what you deserve will return on your own head.
      16 As you have drunk on my holy mountain,
      so all the nations will drink continually.
      They will drink and gulp down
      and be as though they had never been.
      17 But there will be a deliverance on Mount Zion,
      and it will be holy;
      the house of Jacob will dispossess
      those who dispossessed them.
      18 Then the house of Jacob will be a blazing FIRE,
      and the house of Joseph, a burning flame,
      but the house of Esau will be stubble;
      Jacob will set them on fire and consume Edom.
      Therefore no survivor will remain
      of the house of Esau,
      for the Lord has spoken.”  Obadiah 1:15-18
      “Is not my WORD like FIRE”—this is the Lord’s declaration—“and like a hammer that pulverizes rock?”  Jer 23:29
      JWs, if you choose to listen to the linked chapter in Lamentation below, which is Jeremiah’s mournful dirge over Judah’s captivity, consider how you are admonished to respect the authority of, obey, and praise the elder body. At the same time, you are taught to scrutinize the validity of the anointed ones.  Remember that the anointed Temple “stones”/ priests and “kings of the earth” are counseled by your governing body, and enforced by your elders, not to seek each other out, or gather together to study the Bible; as it THREATENS the unity and worship to be given to your god, the organization.  Prov 6:16-19; Ezek 44:23  This is “trampling”, oppression and captivity. Rev.12:4; 9:10,19; 11:2; 13:7,10; Matt 26:52; (Gen 27:40)  Your “Edom” is a spiritual desert as a result; fulfilling the promised blessing given to Esau by Isaac.  Jer 14:15; Lam 5:10; Amos 8:11;Rev 18:8    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      The inherited promise bestowed on a faithful “Israel”, cleansed of all defilement, is fulfilled when the Kingdom of God arrives. Rev 6:9-11; Isa 61:7  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      I know your works. Look, I have placed before you an open door that no one can close because you have but little power; yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 Note this: I will make those from the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews and are not, but are lying—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and they will know that I have loved you. 10 Because you have kept my command to endure, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is going to come on the whole world to test those who live on the earth. 11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one takes your crown. Rev 3:8-11
      Lamentations 1 - Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Pearl Doxsey - 4womaninthewilderness
      "Who Inherit the Earth"?
      "Discerning the Ten Virgins/Called, Chosen and Faithful"
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
    • By Israeli Bar Avaddhon
      We will recognize the man of lawlessness?   "He stands in opposition and exalts himself above all that is called" god "or object of reverence, so that he sits in the temple of God, showing publicly that you are a god" - 2 Thessalonians 2: 4   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. We are searching the scriptures carefully?   The title of the article might seem strange. We all know, in fact, that the man of lawlessness is the apostate Christendom, that is, all those who have taught lies about the nature and teachings of Jesus Christ. Obviously this also includes those, individuals or groups, who do not call themselves religious but to some extent spread lies about the Word of God. These apostate religious organizations became extremely evident by the death of the last apostle onwards. It even seems amazing the short amount of time that was necessary to this extent to adulterate every single teaching of the Lord and remain, in the eyes of the individual observers, "the people of God." At the end of the second century AD, there was probably a single truly Christian teaching. Every Christian, today, taking for granted that it is that person who will study the Bible diligently, should not make it hard to distinguish the man of lawlessness, the subject also called "anti-Christ" by the Apostle John - 1 John 2 : 18 So why such a title? What we risk not recognizing in the end time? We will address this topic starting from afar because the assumptions are not born from nothing; they are due, very often, partial or incorrect interpretation of some scriptures. Scriptural steps that, at least in appearance, could got to do little or nothing to do with the subject matter.   Who makes up the "temple of God"? "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God , and that the spirit of God dwells in you?" - 1 Corinthians 3:16 "What! Do you not know that the body of you is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, which ye have of God? And you do not belong to yourselves, for you were bought with a price. By all means, glorify God in your body "- 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? Because we are the temple of the living God ; as God said, "I will dwell among them and walk among [them], and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" - 2 Corinthians 6:16 Reading these scriptures it is evident that the "temple of God" to which we refer is the congregation of anointed Christians with the Spirit. So, if we connect the base writing this article with these other scriptures, it is evident that "the man of lawlessness" would be taken over to true worship. Indeed, it would be just risen from true worship - Compare Acts 30:29, 30 If we just consider these writings, the man of lawlessness was born in the first century (in fact, the apostolo Paolo said that he was already at work) has operated in the past two millennia, causing confusion and pain to sincere seekers of truth and now just waiting for destruction by the UN (that, according to the current understanding - see footnote) *. We should not expect anything, no twist, and it's hard to imagine that some Christians may still be misled by this entity. How could, in fact, a careful student of the Word of God, suddenly believing that God is a Trinity, that Mary is the Mother "of God," that He created the fiery hell or limbo or any other "amenities" that Christianity teaches? In the past it was very difficult to get a Bible that was almost certain to rely on those who claimed to teach. If a Minister of Christianity had taught any of the above mentioned doctrines, how could you deny whether he had a Bible in hand? So we should take note that this man of lawlessness has effectively acted in the past ... but now has had its day. Anyone with a Bible in the house, while not coming to realize everything, will certainly understand that many doctrines taught by the church are simply false. It's really like this? If the understanding about the man of lawlessness was only partial, we risk not to be complacent dangerously?   " ... as to mislead, if possible, even the elect" - Matthew 24:24 We reflect on the words of the Lord. In his description relative to the last days He mentioned false Christs and false prophets, and clearly pointed to the possibility of being misled. But, as we said before, how can we be led astray today? It is not hard to imagine how this could happen in the Middle Ages or in any other age. In the recent past there have been many people who have claimed to be the Messiah or some other prophet with some "new message" to bring humanity - compares Galatians 1: 8 Many older or newer religions trace their beliefs in one of these characters and messages and then we can say that the man of lawlessness is continuing to act ... but what about true Christians? How many of us would listen to a person, no matter how charismatic, if it said to be the Christ or have a new message for humanity? It is very unlikely to happen something like that and not because we are better than others, but simply because the truth of God's Word protects us - Ecclesiastes 7:12 How, today, the man of lawlessness, at least potentially mislead even the elect? For this to happen, we must at least accept the possibility that behind these words there is something more and perhaps our current understanding on the man of lawlessness is not complete . There are other scriptures that can shed light on this subject?   Let us scrutinize the Scriptures carefully We start from a logical assumption. We said that the man of lawlessness is the clergy of Christendom and this article is not intended in any way to refute this profound truth - 1 John 2:22, 23 Since we're talking about two different subjects , we should not expect to find the scriptures that refute what has been said. The purpose of this discussion is to understand if what we know about the man of lawlessness is complete or whether it can have a second commitment, a sort of "final revelation", something that we would not expect. A change of skin that they can mislead anyone, even the people of God - Compare Matthew 7:22 The writing of 2 Thessalonians 2: 4 says that the man of lawlessness would "sit in the temple of God," but in always the same Bible writer "what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? "- 2 Corinthians 6:14 The questions are rhetorical and cause to reflect. The answer is: no. So if the "temple of God" mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2: 4 it has to do with the congregation of anointed Christians, temple built on the truth, that is, on the foundation of Christ and the apostles , how can it sit there? - Compare Ephesians 2:19, 20 " Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will dwell among them and walk among [them], and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" - 2 Corinthians 6:15, 16 According to rhetorical questions contained in 2 Corinthians, it understands very well that the Temple of God remains so until it has nothing to do with lies, with idols, with Belial. So Let us go back the question: if the man of lawlessness is a fraud just based on lies, on idols, on the teaching Satan himself, how can "sit" in the temple of God? If the temple of God, even in this context, is built on Christ and on the Apostles, this is just not possible. It 'true that this temple may need an adjustment and discipline because of errors, doctrinal or otherwise but it can not be based on falsehood - See Revelation 11: 1 We must also note that there is no difference from being part of the temple of God and sit in the temple of God. Although the differences may seem minimal (and it is obvious that this is so because, as we said, we're not talking about two completely separate subjects), this is not a semantic game. Consider Daniel 11:45. Speaking of the last ruling king, that is, the one who will win the war against the king of the south, is said to "plant the tents of his palace between [the] grand sea and the holy Adornment mountain". Again, although there was no talk of the temple of God , mentioning the "holy Adornment mountain" is generally thought to be referred to true worship. It is certainly true that this king will interfere with true worship going so far as to throw it to the ground completely (Daniel 8:12) but it is to this that Daniel was referring to in this scripture ? The question that should come to mind is ... "If the Adornment mountain depicts the congregation of anointed Christians (or God's people in general),  what does it represent the great sea?". If we read just what it says, it does not seem truly and simply a geographical indication? The great sea is the Mediterranean and the Adornment Mount is Mount Moriah. Geographical indication but has important implications. Is not our entrenched belief that Jerusalem has no longer any importance in the fulfillment of the prophecies to push reading "worship" instead of simply "upstream of Adornment"? If accept this possibility, here the writing of 2 Thessalonians 2: 4 immediately takes on another meaning. He "sits in the temple of God, showing publicly that you are a god," and there is no need to read what is not written - Compare Daniel 11: 36-39 This writing also is fulfilled in the end time, does not it? Now, if we're talking about the man of lawlessness as we have known so far, in what sense will put his tent in the Adornment mount? It would not have interfered in true worship, pretending to it, in the past two thousand years? But we know that Daniel is talking about the last king, which is a political and military power, not a religion or group of religions. Yet it is this power that "will not consider the god of his fathers ... and magnify himself on anyone" (thus also on any other god). We take the words of the Lord that mention the false prophet. " For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets shall show great signs and wonders to mislead, if possible, even the elect" - Matthew 24:24 Other translations reported "signs and wonders" . False Christs are associated with signs and wonders and all this in the last few days so all the theories that these signs would have to deal with the humanitarian works (such as building hospitals, orphanages, etc.) die at birth. Jesus speaks of signs and wonders and the only apparent miracles they may mislead the elect. If none of us would be willing to go behind the first psychopath who assert to be Christ, what about someone who can do great signs and wonders, to create visions from heaven, or things like that? Before you think this is nonsense let's see what he has to tell us another inspired book about the time of the end: Revelation. " And I saw another wild beast ascending from the earth, and he had two horns like [those of] a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in front of that. It causes the earth and those who dwell therein to worship the first wild beast, whose deadly wound was healed. It performs great signs, so as to even call down fire from heaven to earth in front of the human race. It misleads those who dwell on the earth because of the signs that she was allowed to take ... "- Revelation 13: 11-14 What "signs" are allowed to have this beast? If we try to forget what we have been taught about this subject , it does not seem that the writings of Daniel, Matthew and 2 Thessalonians are connected? Is it not all about the false prophet and false worship? They do not talk all the time of the end? Do not mention the attack all the people of God? The beast with two horns lamb of Revelation is also called "false prophet" so connection would be too obvious if we were not convinced that the false religion is represented by another subject. The fact that he has two horns lamb should bring us back to the true Lamb and that it should be equally clear that it refers to a false Christ, a religious deception. It should also be clear that the same mark of the beast is opposed to the seal given to the elect - Compare Revelation 13:11 with Revelation 14: 1 in ; Revelation 13:16 with Revelation 14: 1b In fact, the contrast is emphasized in Revelation is among those who follow the Lamb and who follows the false prophet. The apostle Paul also in the writing guide of this article, mentions "the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto him" and then well understand the reference time period. He says that "before" should be illegal but it meant two thousand years ago? Whatever our idea, so let's see what happens near the "ingathering with him", ie near the heavenly resurrection. Revelation 11:15 says, "And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign for ever and ever" (see also 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52) What happens in the vicinity of this crucial event? As it happens, it appears just the false prophet - See Revelation 13:11 The scriptures are a lot and those who read the writing without injury can not consider them random - Matthew 11:25 To understand properly the revelation of man of lawlessness, it will allow us to be prepared when they appear to deflect all humanity. Obviously from there arise many questions. What kind of signs and wonders will accomplish and how it will be possible? When it will make its appearance? If it is a religious deception as it can also be a king, or a political power? It was only the apostles to act as a restraint in the first century or there's just one restriction that will be "removed" to allow the complete revelation of the man of lawlessness? Who acts as a restriction in the end time? All these questions were dealt with in the following items. " This requires that we pay more than the usual attention to the things heard, that we never driven along" - Hebrews 2: 1   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. We will recognize the man of lawlessness to its final revelation?      
    • By Noble Berean
      "Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence" (2 Thessalonians 2:8).
      I understand that Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus Christ presence began back in 1914. I also understand that JWs believe the clergy of Christendom represent the Man of Lawlessness. However, if that is the case, why have the clergy thrived since 1914? Shouldn't they be brought to "...nothing by the manifestation of his presence"?
  • Who Was Online   102 Users were Online in the Last 24 Hours   (Most members ever online in 24 hour was 109, last accomplished on .)

  • Forum Statistics

    58,519
    Total Topics
    103,678
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    15,872
    Total Members
    1,592
    Most Online
    Ian Blackstok
    Newest Member
    Ian Blackstok
    Joined




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.