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JW USA: A Witness responds to Lloyd Evans about JW and global climate change

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On Tuesday, we asked ex-JW activist Lloyd Evans about the Jehovah’s Witness view on climate change, since it’s an organization so centered around the idea of global catastrophe. Lloyd explained that because the planet was in Jehovah’s hands, Witnesses tended not to be concerned about environmental issues. We then received a rebuttal from Rob, a Witness who disagreed, and we’re very happy to publish his message to us, with his permission…

The main point I am rebutting is this quote from Lloyd: “Jehovah’s Witnesses mostly have a very laid back approach to environmental concerns. They point to issues like global warming and damage to the environment as evidence that humans are incapable of ruling themselves….”

Jehovah’s Witnesses, in fact, do have an active interest in environment, and encourage members to take action to reduce the negative affects we have on the environment. Consider one of our journals, the Awake! magazine, from 2007:

The Bible assures us that every trace of the damage caused by man will be undone when God ‘makes all things new.’ (Revelation 21:5) However, we should not conclude that since God will in time restore the earth, our actions now do not matter. They do!

That article further states that we are not indifferent to the earth’s plight:

Jehovah God made the earth to be a gardenlike home for mankind. He pronounced all of his work to be “very good” and assigned man “to cultivate [the earth] and to take care of it.” (Genesis 1:28, 31; 2:15) How does God feel about earth’s present condition? Clearly, he is deeply offended by man’s mismanagement, for Revelation 11:18 foretells that he will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” So we should not be indifferent to the earth’s plight.

Lastly, steps are given in this same article that we can or should take, to reduce the negative impact on our environment.

It is proper, though, for us to consider the environmental impact of our choices in such areas as household purchases, transportation, and recreation. For example, some choose to purchase products that have been produced or that operate in ways that minimize damage to the environment. Others strive to reduce their share in activities that create pollution or unduly consume natural resources.

This does not represent disinterest in climate change, or feigning interest in it. This is actively discussing ways to minimize our own environmental impact.

So yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses do in fact believe that God will undo climate change once and for all, but this does not mean we are indifferent or apathetic, as the article above shows.

Lastly, Jehovah’s Witnesses’ buildings received the highest possible rating of Four Green Globes for all seven of their buildings, for environmental efficiency.

Really, the best way to show concern for our planet is to reduce the impact we have. Jehovah’s Witnesses build so to have the least negative impact as they possibly can.

So whoever is suggesting that Jehovah’s Witnesses are apathetic to our environmental concerns is ignoring what’s in print, and how we construct our buildings, and the recognition we receive from authoritative environmental agencies.

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Who is this fellow Tony?

He does not approach this as I would...he too much let’s Lloyd define the premise...but his answer is thoughtful and I have also answered such plays from the playbook things in the past

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Although Jehovah’s Witnesses did not participate in the conference, they too are interested in the environment. Hundreds of them were involved in a special campaign in Paris to share their Bible-based hope of living on a pollution-free planet....that Jehovah’s Witnesses twice received a rating of Four Green Globes from the Green Building Initiative for their commitment to environmentally sustainable building design and construction for two new buildings at the Witnesses’ United States branch facilities in Wallkill, New York.

    Hello guest!

In 2011, Daniel Asamoah, a Circuit Overseer of Jehovah's Witness, had this to say about the topic of global warming, as reported by Ghana Web: "The Earth is running a fever; man cuts trees indiscriminately, there is loss of fertile agricultural land, toxic waste introduced into the environment, global warming, deforestation, oil spillages. One day, very soon God's Kingdom will come and interrupt, solve these problems and give us lasting relief."  - 

    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!
... - 
    Hello guest!

 

In article: The Earth Has a “Fever”—Is There a Cure? - 

    Hello guest!
  NOTHING is said that JW people actively contributing in effort to less pollution  of Earth. Just prayer for Kingdom.

Here we see how JW people generally stay on PREACHING about climate in connection to Their Hope. Building two buildings in US with donated money not shows global JW efforts and commitment to contribute in active programs made by scientist about this issue. 

 

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38 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

NOTHING is said that JW people actively contributing in effort to less pollution  of Earth. Just prayer for Kingdom.

This is why I said that I would have handled it differently. Lloyd will go in this direction should he answer this fellow. There is a playbook from which they do not deviate much.

 I would have gone the way that I did go when a similar charge came up, around the time of the Gulf oil spill almost a decade ago:

.....Now, this verbal exchange was well before the gulf oil-spill, that mother of all environmental catastrophes.  “How to clean up the mess? And who's at blame!” declared Time Magazine's cover of June 21, 2010,  against a backdrop of oil-soaked pelicans. (I was mildly surprised that the questions were not posed in reverse order) Time listed a “dirty dozen” which included the prior President, of course, and his Secretary of State, but also the current President and some of his underlings. A handful of oilmen, needless to say, and one or two indulgent regulators. Even the ubiquitous American driver, since he fuels demand for oil in the first place. Got it? We're all to blame. There are no good guys in white hats, only bad guys in black, oily ones. 

And to think I was upbraided just a few weeks ago, along with all my people, for not picking up the roadside trash. “Enough Jehovah's Witness preaching, already!” scolded my interlocutor, “what good is that? Do something useful, instead,” said he, and then proceeded to wax poetic on how he and his entire family took part in a local park clean-up, picking up crud that other slobs had tossed here, there, and everywhere. Look, I'm not against cleanup days, but how silly to imagine that, by thus taking part, we're saving the planet, when, in one dastardly swoop, the entire gulf can be ruined by one big-industry blunder. In fact, reports have it that local picker-uppers are showing up on the coast only to be told to get lost – this is a job for pros!

No, I won't stand for it – to be told preaching is valueless and community cleanup days are the path to salvation. And don't mistake that statement as unconcern for the environment! When the kids were little and we hiked trails at Allegheny State Park, we'd take trash bags with us and make a treasure hunt out of it, collecting beer and pop cans along the way – some had been there for years. (there were even some of the ancient tin types, cans that had been opened, not with pop-tops, but with can openers such as I remember from when I was a kid – extra points awarded for such finds!) And heaven help you if you are the pig dumping fast food trash out the car window and Mrs. Sheepandgoats is driving behind you! Steam comes from her ears. She all but rams your bumper and slaps you in handcuffs, hauling you to the sheriff in citizens' arrest. 

One fellow is griping here about Jehovah's Witnesses: "They don’t even need to recycle if they don’t want to." What kind of an accusation is that? Are there groups that maintain their people MUST recycle, whether they want to or not? Where recycling is the law of the land/community, JW compliance is higher than most, I've no doubt, since they are well-known to be law-abiding. Where it is not the law of the land, likely JW compliance is still higher than most, out of respect for the planet. Look, when financially secure, trendy neighborhoods take up recycling as their special cause, I admit, they may outdo the average Witness. But we surely shine when compared to the population in general. I attended a wine festival over the weekend. Each vendor offered samples of wine, cheese, candy, sauce, whatever, in one-use plastic cups, or plates, or skewering toothpicks. Were they recycled? I doubt it. All trash was mixed together. In the medical field, everything is one-use only, disposable, in the interests of sanitation. Nothing is washed. Nothing is reused. Again, all trash is mixed together. I once worked part-time for a retail inventory firm, reputed to be the country's largest consumer of AAA batteries. Do you imagine those batteries were recycled? When I asked about it, they laughed at me. In the trash they'd go....each and every one of them. 

Look, I'm all for local clean-up-the-park days. Same with clean-up-the-roadside days. None of Jehovah's Witnesses will ever speak against such things, unless you count observations that such are, at best, a stop-gap measure, and that the lasting solution will come only when God carries out his promise to “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” We tend to use our free time to highlight this latter solution, the one that, in the end, counts. My experience is that it's only the tiniest sliver of the population who take part in such cleanups, anyway – it's not as if JWs are thwarting the whole effort. And surely it must count for something that Jehovah's Witnesses aren't among those who caused the mess in the first place. 

“This [JW belief that God's Kingdom only can permanently solve earth's environmental woes] leads to the undeniable fact that Witnesses take almost no initiative towards making the world we live in a better place in any way:” someone tries to sell me that line. Hogwash! Not to oversimplify, but if the entire population were Witnesses, there would be no need for efforts to make the world we live in a better place. This, because of the traits which are instilled into each Witness. Law-abiding to the core, honest, working, not abusing government services, not contributing to the criminal element freely operating in most lands, promoting stable, monogamous families – all this by virtue of making Bible principles a way of life. Thus, merely propagating Witness beliefs is a step toward making the world a better place.

Meanwhile, I had to go to Canada (the Globe and Mail, June 19th) to discover that at least half of the leaked gulf oil is being recovered through various means, such as salvage ships that corral surface oil and burn it. It really is true that the U.S. media ignores even qualified good news, preferring to focus only the overwhelming devastation itself, along with who is to blame, and delighting in the President's declaration that he's looking for “asses to kick,” even while insinuating that his own “ass” might be among them, that the oil spill is his Katrina, and so forth. Sigh....that's what we're good at here: kicking asses.

 

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10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

We're all to blame.

In various degrees of responsibility.

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

And surely it must count for something that Jehovah's Witnesses aren't among those who caused the mess in the first place. 

Normal statement, also this is true for many other non JW people.

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

“This [JW belief that God's Kingdom only can permanently solve earth's environmental woes] leads to the undeniable fact that Witnesses take almost no initiative towards making the world we live in a better place in any way:” someone tries to sell me that line. Hogwash!

WT publications openly teaching members to not be active in any social, ......etc. involvement for Changing this World (only when freedom of speech and religion is issue) 

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Not to oversimplify, but if the entire population were Witnesses, there would be no need for efforts to make the world we live in a better place.

Sorry, but in this sort of "conclusion" you advocate and call for, how all JW Society, even in this State/Condition of existence (in all aspects of regulations that exist inside WTJWORG Organization)  is the Only Group on Earth that is Imperfectly Perfect. Even (according to religious ideas based on WT publications) only worth to live on Earth. And  how there would be no need for efforts to make the world we live in a better place. This is pretentious and belong to arrogant statement - in my opinion :))).

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22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

NOTHING is said that JW people actively contributing in effort to less pollution  of Earth. Just prayer for Kingdom.

Actions speak louder than words. Personally I know that many JW's recycle, they prefer to purchase energy saving appliances, ride bikes instead of drive a car, conscientiously try to conserve water and be careful about littering and dumping contaminated things where they don't belong. Why would they do that if they didn't care? On top of that, as the article mentions, most of our new buildings are "green" .

    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!

It is our earth, given to us by Jehovah. Knowing that God will sort things out, is no excuse to treat the planet he gave us with disrespect. On the contrary. And as far as I know, that is every JW's attitude, including mine.

As for some kind of activism, well no, JWs don't take part in that because they know it is futile. And people who believe activism will help, then they are being naive, because the matter of money always comes first, and then concerns about the environment. Money will always win.

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10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This is pretentious and belong to arrogant statement - in my opinion :))).

But it's true xD. Also, there would be no war.

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11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This is pretentious and belong to arrogant statement - in my opinion :))).

If it is pretentious and arrogant, it certainly is no less so than your position. You assume with your newfound air of enlightened wisdom that if Jehovah's Witnesses "got involved" as you think they should, they would all say: "You know, that Srecko is right! Let's roll up our sleeves, pitch in and help him save the planet!" In fact, they would simple divide roughly 50/50 on the issue and fight each other to a standstill.

Do you think that you have stepped into an arena where there is unity? You haven't. We have. Do you think you are in a place where what you want done will be done? You're not. We are. Don't come here lecturing people about pretentiousness and arrogance. Your people are the ones who cannot agree on how many genders there are.

The world splits down the middle on climate change. The very reason it is called 'climate change' rather than the old term 'global warming' is because is because proponents got frustrated with the data not coming in as they thought it would. There have been several instances of fraud on that account so as to present a picture that the data does not back up. Europe is real keen on the climate change. Also Australia and Canada. But everyone else is lukewarm at best and some are opposed, including the current administrations of both the US and Russia.

Just ask @James Thomas Rook Jr. about it. (But tell @JW Insiderto stay away) They fought like cats and dogs over it once on this forum. So do you think that if they abandoned the Witness position to hold hands with you they would suddenly do a Kumbaya? No! They would fight like cats and dogs just on a bigger forum.

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Your people are the ones who cannot agree on how many genders there are.

sorry for my :) haha to your post, but have to ask you, what "gender" issue have with this topic, and what my position on "gender" issue (if i have any position at all) have with this what i am thinking about JW and their passivity on climate movements in society?

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Just ask @James Thomas Rook Jr. about it. (But tell @JW Insiderto stay away)

TTH, I just told myself (and others) that I should stay away from all controversial topics that might reflect negatively on current Witness doctrine, at least for a few weeks. I don't think this topic counts, since I'm not even taking sides on whether JWs do more or less than their reasonable share. (I'm guessing, like you, that JWs do better than the average person in this regard, but I'm not trying to make any claims.) In fact, perhaps it's a good idea for me to just limit my comments to non-JW topics like climate change, politics, physics, computer science, and economics whenever I get the urge to kick my feet up on the desk and relax over here on the forum.

I could care less what Lloyd Evans thinks about climate change, unless he is some kind of expert on the topic who might be ready to bring something new or important to the table. I haven't looked into that part of the discussion and probably won't try to. If he's just criticizing JWs, then it's probably a complete waste of time on such a topic. But I have no problem if JTR is drawn into a discussion on the topic, because I'm sure he knows more than I do about it. And that's the beauty of a forum where you can dialogue with persons who know more than you. For me, it's an ideal way to test and/or prove whether what I think stands up to counter-evidence. 

So if you don't mind, I'll start out with my take on what you just said:

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The world splits down the middle on climate change.

I thought for a second that you might be joking on this claim. The world most definitely does not split down the middle on climate change. It probably seems that way in the United States, of course, because we are here bombarded with propaganda that pretends that it's a political issue. And the United States has had a long history of promoting political issues that split the population down the middle. But even the majority of persons in this country more honestly answer "I don't know" when typical climate change questions are asked. Those who have been fooled into thinking it's a political issue are apt to believe they know something about it when they don't. It's a very small percentage of the population who actually know anything more than the political propaganda that only pretends to know.

If we just count the people who have truly studied the scientific factors with respect to climate change, then we truly do get a split of about 98 percent who fall on side of human-influenced climate change. Only about 2 percent of scientists who have studied a wide range of climate related factors will deny that humans have had or can have any significant influence on climate. And only about 0 percent of such scientists believe that significant "global warming" does not exist. 

An old "divide and conquer" propaganda trick when trying to overcome the "impossible" is to find a couple of persons who will present themselves as experts and make a contrary claim to the scientifically tested claim. Then even if the skewing is 99 percent to 1 percent, the propagandist can still claim that "some experts hold an opposing opinion." Now you are just moments from using propaganda outlets, such as established news organizations to do the rest of the dirty work for you. News outlets love controversy and drama because news sells best when it is really entertainment instead of news. Also, news outlets can be made to look balanced by finding a representative of both sides of a controversy. So if the actual score is 99 to 1, propaganda outlets will make it look like 50/50. The 1 percent get just as much media attention as the 99 percent. When this happens often enough, someone will say: "the world is pretty much split down the middle on this topic."

It works like a charm, and climate change is only one of many such topics manipulated by propagandists.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The very reason it is called 'climate change' rather than the old term 'global warming' is because is because proponents got frustrated with the data not coming in as they thought it would.

Over the last few decades, there has been better understanding of the data and much improvement in the way the models reflect and predict reality. But this is not the reason that the term "global warming" sometimes takes a backseat to "climate change." The real reason is propaganda. Propagandists appeal to the stupidity of most of us by saying things like: "Ha! ha! These scientists still believe in global warming when it's freezing out today, and I have a snowball from an unexpected snowfall." Stupid people, who are usually the target, not the source of such propaganda will often fall for it. In fact, global warming just means that the average yearly temperature around the globe at literally 1,000s of different measuring points, measured daily, will all be averaged together to get a global average temperature for the entire year (or day, week, month, decade, etc). This global average is trending upward at a rate that is much faster and higher than most of the models predicted. But it does not necessarily follow that the average global yearly temperature will rise EACH year, or that there will not be unexpected cold waves and snowfalls. In fact, almost all global warming models all along have predicted that while global warming occurs it will follow that some areas will see colder and unexpected changes. This does not change the average global yearly temperature just because some areas still see a lot of cold, or even extra cold. For all the extra cold seen in some places there will be an excess of heat in other places making up for it.

For example, there were many times in the last few years when the temperature on the North Pole was warmer than the temperature in New York, when measured at the exact same time. But it is also true that some of the cold winds that usually effected the North Pole had trended southward and brought colder temperatures to parts of Canada and the United States. Some new cold temperature records were recorded to the south, while the North Pole reached temperatures in the 70's Fahrenheit.

Global warming is the same as climate change, and the data has come out just as models had predicted. Global warming has been a known fact for decades. It is not just 98 percent of climate specialists agree with, but 100 percent agree with it. The question has been whether man has caused a significant part of it, or can cause an improvement or change in the other direction. It is on this question where 98 percent of the scientists agree that man is influencing it, and 2 percent say no.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There have been several instances of fraud on that account so as to present a picture that the data does not back up.

There have been some bad practices in science in most areas, but usually this is about scientists who are lazy and don't want to go through the selfless tedium of collecting their own real data. There are bad actors like this in all fields and it's just as prevalent in areas of science, schools, universities, labs, and of course authors, students professors who want to make a quick name for themselves, etc. Data is faked. No doubt about it. Data is often copied and adjusted and randomized within expected ranges to make it look like real work was put into it. But a second person or group comes along and can poke holes in it.

But the types of issues with data fraud that come up in climate science are much more common from the 2 percent trying to disprove global warming. These are paid for by the fossil fuel industry. Millions of dollars are poured into producing a propaganda network of studies that obfuscate data, cherry-pick datasets of anomalies to "prove" the opposite of what the full set of data indicated. Reports that don't go the way of the oil companies have been hidden, given false summaries, forged, and dishonestly edited.

The money machine behind the oil industry makes sure that all investigation of their fraud is squashed, and that even the most minor mistakes of actual climate scientists are blown out of proportion.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Europe is real keen on the climate change. Also Australia and Canada. But everyone else is lukewarm at best and some are opposed, including the current administrations of both the US and Russia.

Most scientific innovation and energy innovation these days comes out of China. China is still not able or ready to wean themselves from dirty energy but their scientists realize the urgency. The US and Russia are too tied to their petroleum economies, and capitalist economies like these always fight change due to the effect of change on corporate profits. National interests become corporate interests. Corporate interests become the driver of politics and propaganda in places like the United States and Russia. Germany has done well in trying to wean off a petroleum economy. Other European nations see the advantages, but are at differing stages.

Unfortunately, there is no shortage of oil, coal, and natural gas, and natural gas is relatively cheap. Even to manufacture and transport solar and wind renewables still takes a lot of electricity and oil. When you drive an electric car you still ultimately get that electricity from coal in this country.

So I think the corporate and political propagandists of this world will drive change as slowly as possible, and if left to their own devices, would drive the planet to destruction.

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I will go further to suggest to Srecko that if he succeeded in his goal of getting Witnesses off their Kingdom script, he would be hurting his own cause. 

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

only about 0 percent of such scientists believe that significant "global warming" does not exist. 

 

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But even the majority of persons in this country more honestly answer "I don't know" when typical climate change questions are asked. 

So.  All scientists believe it.  Most other persons say "I don't know."

In other words, they're not buying it. Why? Can it be that it is not pushed enough? The average media outlet is 100% behind it and does not miss an opportunity to educate. Yet still they say "I don't know." 

I suggest that many of these who say "I don't know" actually would say "Hogwash" but for fear of taking a stand against scientists and risk being called stupid. Many say it anyhow.

Now, for the most part, I think that Jehovah's Witnesses do believe in climate change. Why? Because the organization has said it is spending several times the amount for disaster relief as it did a few years ago. Though Srecko is right that Witnesses are not activists, they will still, in their ministry, help out his cause by educating people about it. When the topic comes up, they will agree with global warming, and are likely to even bring it up themselves as the prime example of "man's ruining the earth."

But if Srecko's dream came true and they stopped being Witnesses, they would lose this "proof" of climate change.  They would divide into some camps that support and some that say "I don't know" and some that say "Hogwash." But wouldn't the example of non-Witness charities also pleading for more money take the place of the Witness organization saying is spends more on disaster relief? No, because they always plead for more money, irrespective of need, at least such is the popular perception. 

So Srecko hurts his cause by pulling Witnesses away.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

sorry for my :) haha to your post, but have to ask you, what "gender" issue have with this topic, and what my position on "gender" issue (if i have any position at all) have with this what i am thinking about JW and their passivity on climate movements in society?

You should be able to see this. In the world that I belong to, no one believes it. In the enlightened world you belong to, some do. Since it is being pushed mightily in the US by those most respected - media and educators - more and more in your world will come to believe it. Of course, I mean gender fluidity in general, and take the 57 genders as only the most extreme example, seen as ridiculous by most people. But it is seen ridiculous by ALL people trained by Bible principles, whereas the world you have chosen will warm to it more and more.

Transfer the principle to climate change, and it means that our people are united and your people are not. JWs are now a monolithic block. They will not remain so if you sever them from their God. Some will think that you are right and help you. Some will think that you are wrong and work against you. In short, our people can work on goals effectively because we are not fighting others of our people. That cannot be said of your people.

18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WT publications openly teaching members to not be active in any social, ......etc. involvement for Changing this World (only when freedom of speech and religion is issue) 

You're just huffy that they are no part of the world and you read that separation as judgement of you. As pointed out above, their stand regarding your cause is a mildly supportive factor and best and a non-factor at worst.

 

 

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

perhaps it's a good idea for me to just limit my comments to non-JW topics 

I scored a point, pleasantly surprising even myself, but it is not be to seen as a rebuke across the board. Time in the penalty box is okay, but it is not time imposed by me.

Besides, I only did it to court Billy's approval, and you saw how that went.   :)

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I am an amateur in all and each areas of life. But as I understand climate change issue, the causes can be found in astronomy processes and in anthropological processes.

Scientists speak differently than the official doctrines of the JW Church. Eg. The JW Church says that the Flood (Noah's day) was a great, global climate change caused by the action of God (not human, not Universe aka Sun, Moon, Stars and similar). This great global change, according to this interpretation, was not caused by the action of mankind on the nature and life of the planet Earth, nor was it the result of some astronomical activity and/or normal processes in the very life of Earth itself. 

-precession of the Earth's axis (period of about 20,000 years)
-changes in the inclination of the Earth's axis (period of about 40,000 years)
-change the shape of the Earth's path around the Sun (period about 100,000 years)

Not so long ago, JW claimed that every day of creation lasted 7,000 years. Some older JW still believe it, perhaps. A small release from a theme with an illustration of the dinosaurs: 

When did the dinosaurs live?

The Bible describes sea and land animals as being created during the fifth and sixth days, or epochs, of creation. * (Genesis 1:20-25, 31) Thus, the Bible allows for the appearance and existence of dinosaurs over a lengthy period of time.

What happened to the dinosaurs?

The Bible does not comment on the disappearance of the dinosaurs. However, it does state that all things were created “because of [God’s] will,” so God clearly had a purpose for making dinosaurs. (Revelation 4:11) When that purpose was fulfilled, God allowed the dinosaurs to become extinct. - 

    Hello guest!

In my early period of being JW it was normal to believe how Dinosaurs was died in Noah Flood. In those time was Normal Official Doctrine to believe how each Creation Period was 7 000 years. So, by such old WT Doctrinal logic, Dinosaurs was  old about 14 000 years and all died in Great Flood. Not millions of years as Science was told people. Today, JW Church not denied any more how Earth can be old UNKNOWN PERIOD of YEARS. That in other words means how it is possible that Earth and Life on it was OLD for MILLIONS of years.

Perhaps we can found few ideas, possibilities on climate and life on Earth. And how "predictions" and Interpretations on predictions by WTJWORG is just one of interpretations.

What does this all have with involvement, participation of JW Church and their members in activity about Environment and Climate on Earth? :)) 

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2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What does this all have with involvement, participation of JW Church and their members in activity about Environment and Climate on Earth? :)) 

It Russia, congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses do perform cleanups of public areas. They do it all the time. Often they ask city or town authorities for territories most in need of it.

If you remember, there was publicity regarding Dennis Christensen that one of the last things he did as a free man was take part in such a cleanup. Photos were supplied, one a group photo and one of he alone hauling a bag of trash out of the river.

In ‘Dear Mr. Putin.....’ I floated the idea that if such ever caught on in the US, it would be exactly the opposite of what the Russian government alleges. It would be an example of Russian Witnesses telling Americans Witnesses what to do rather than the reverse. 

It does sort of dovetail with the core mission, doesn’t it? And it is hard to believe that such activity would not provide the setting for some explanation of the good news.

 

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15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

sorry for my :) haha to your post, but have to ask you, what "gender" issue have with this topic, and what my position on "gender" issue (if i have any position at all) have with this what i am thinking about JW and their passivity on climate movements in society?

Here you are, Srecko. You’ll be heralding this in no time at all, perhaps already.

The point is that your people divide up readily with regard to every new thing. Our people don’t. It would b the same with regard to climate change if our people were to join your people.

 

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Old good charity works, volunteering. More work less talk, i agree!

From the photos I see, much work gets done.

Whereas the meme in the US is that of a “Men Working” sign that spotlights 1 man digging a ditch and 5 leaning on their shovels.

How is it out there where you are?

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

How is it out there where you are?

Sincerely, I don't know how it is this days. Till 2015 nothing about similar activity in Croatia ever heard. Much sure it is the same today. My wife is JW but talking nothing about "spiritual" things, and that  it is "normal" according to elders instructions :)))haha. And i don't ask. All is on internet anyway :))))  I only meet sometimes some old and new faces standing with publications while i am going through the town. 

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5 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

My wife is JW but talking nothing about "spiritual" things, and that  it is

Well, don’t give her a hard time, whatever you do. Outside of spiritual things, she probably loves you, and I suspect with good reason.

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13 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Well, don’t give her a hard time, whatever you do. 

haha, you speaking as one elder after i send my Letter of dissociation to Betel. Elders try for months to arrange meeting with me by telephone contact, and not want to tell me why, that they will tell me on meeting (of course, reason was  because i was put 2 post on my G+ profile with Critical Thoughts about GB).

It is very Interesting fact how i stopped to go on meetings from 1 January 2015 and not giving reports about field service. Not single telephone call for some 6 months, to say simple hello or call for coffee - to show some "brotherly love" (which i probably would not accept anyway) but they could not even know my reaction in advance :)))), so they show some of their REAL faces.

Not need to mentioned how one Betel elder try to arrange this meeting by telephone, with him and other elder and me, to discuss about "something" what made them worried (my 2 G+ posts). That make me sure how they Intentionally keek, peek, spy my internet activity and "preparing terrain for Judicial Committee ". But i "played my game" because of common knowledge about how such meetings with 2 and later with 3 elders would be. So, i made my letter, done verification of my Statement by Notary Public and in proper time for me i was sending/published it to JW members in ex congregation mostly and to Betel. And later via internet on some public forums, blogs.

But why told you all this. Because your advice to not give hard time to my wife. In telephone call from Judicial Committee elders on the day they waiting/expecting me to come, and in the same week they received my Letter, because 2 of elders working in Betel so they was aware how i disf. myself few months earlier. Well, one elder made some sort of warning me to not making hard time to wife aka not to "persecute" her. I thought in my mind, oh dear god, you are the people who will shun and ignore me, you are the people who told congregation to destroy my Letter and to stop have anything with me, and now you have nerve to warn me to not make some trouble to her. HEHE, i am the one who TOLERATE you more than YOU tolerate others, and in this situation YOU are People who PERSECUTE me because of my decision to leave WTJWORG. 

Well TTH, if you will be in same situation to tell this words again, to someone else as advice/plead, Please, DO NOT. It looks funny, needlessly and somehow absurd, almost bizarre. WTJWORG is Organization who shows Extremism on this issue. You are not "extremist" in that sense. :)          

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25 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well TTH, if you will be in same situation to tell this words again, to someone else as advice/plead, Please, DO NOT. 

I regretted it almost the moment I sent it. Who am I to interject myself? Maybe I should have taken it back, but I usually do not delete things once I've put them out there. I try to dig myself out of the mess I've made later. Ideally, I think it through first. In this case, I shot myself in the foot.

28 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is very Interesting fact how i stopped to go on meetings from 1 January 2015 and not giving reports about field service. Not single telephone call for some 6 months

It is what it is. No one is saying that anyone is proud about it. That being said:

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Not single telephone call for some 6 months, to say simple hello or call for coffee - to show some "brotherly love" (which i probably would not accept anyway) 

Well, they're people too. Maybe if you "probably would not accept anyway" they somehow had a clue that would be the case. It isn't easy stepping into a situation that you know will be unpleasant, especially if you have many other things that are pleasant that you can occupy yourself with.

 

34 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

oh dear god, you are the people who will shun and ignore me, you are the people who told congregation to destroy my Letter and to stop have anything with me, and now you have nerve to warn me to not make some trouble to her. 

It may not be wrong to look at it that way, but that does not mean it is helpful.

It might be that if you do "make trouble" for her, she will go your way. Or it might be that she will break and/or that your marriage will blow up. Would you prefer that? Take it as real concern for her on their part, and even for you that you do not make what would have to have been a strained marital relationship 10 times worse.

 

42 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You are not "extremist" in that sense. :)          

OK. It is a good word, I think. If you notice, my word to you was also a good word. I said that she probably loves you "with good reason."

Don't misunderstand. Spiritually speaking, I think you have traded in the diamonds for the turds, but that does not mean that I dislike you personally (though - I admit it - at times I have).

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16 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Here you are, Srecko. You’ll be heralding this in no time at all, perhaps already.

The point is that your people divide up readily with regard to every new thing. Our people don’t. It would b the same with regard to climate change if our people were to join your people.

 

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This does not surprise me, the whole gender thing. You should see what they are doing when it comes to indoctrinating children into something that they proclaim as normal when it is bad. Birth certificates I believe was effected too: 

    Hello guest!

There is a fight coming, those who see the danger are prepared for it, but those who don't see the danger or go about the danger as if they can defeat it will only find themselves in absolute ruin.

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4 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

If he was a scientist, maybe I would get a good answer for a debate.

The reason I am not "sympathetic" to you Billy, is that if you found someone who knew EVERYTHING about any particular subject ... and you knew NOTHING about that same subject ... you would debate him.

Sometimes ... you just need to sit down, shut up ... and listen.

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On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 6:15 PM, JW Insider said:

I have no problem if JTR is drawn into a discussion on the topic, because I'm sure he knows more than I do about it. 

He does not know more about it than you. He knows things about it that you do not.

And you do not know more about it than he. You know things about it that he does not.

It is due to the reality of news sources that do not cover the same facts, each ignoring what does not fit into its prevailing narrative.

I can best explain it by referring to a topic I have stronger feelings about. I am undecided about climate change. As stated, the biggest factor for it, in my view, is that the organization has said it is devoting so much more to disaster relief.

Not surprisingly, when a white police officer shoots a black suspect, the event is widely covered. Other shootings are not so widely covered. Sometimes they are barely mentioned. Thus comes the perception that white officers are racist and hostile to blacks. Yet a study of the Philadelphia police force during the Obama administration found the statistics revealed no significant aberrations with regard to race. In fact, the stats revealed that black officers were slightly more likely to shoot black suspects than were white officers. They were slightly more likely to experience "threat misperception," was the phrase. 

So a picture emerges via media that does not reflect the whole truth. It even serves to create a wrong impression. Does such a thing happen with regard to climate change? That recent year when major hurricanes hit Florida and Texas? It was pronounced significant evidence of global warming. Yet the total number of hurricanes that year was abnormally low. Do we see a weather version of  "If it bleeds, it leads?"

Everyone must do something to sort through the polarized information streams. My own strategy is that, whenever I follow anything on Twitter, I make it a point to also follow its polar opposite. In this way, there are two or three things popularly regarded as almost conspiracy theories that I have come to regard as quite likely. It is not the case that all the scientists are on the side of climate change. What happens is the same as what happens during physical warfare: efforts to dehumanize the enemy. The climate change scientists declare the other scientists not scientists at all, because if they were scientists they would come on board with climate change.

If you follow both sides on Twitter you find the 'conspiracy' side well argued, well researched, with abundant studies, data, facts to support statements made. They do not at all come across as the unhinged crackpots they are portrayed as. The pro side tends to be more like.....like....well, like Billy, who froths that the matter is "settled" and that only a science apostate would contradict "established science." I don't think that it is settled at all.

Recently a disheartening Pew report related that today's reality goes beyond people not agreeing on the facts. Today's reality is that people do not agree on what the facts are. With no common starting point they can be no agreement. It is very different to get to the bottom of anything, and usually one can identify a person's primary opinions by the news sources he takes in. They report on different things.

 

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55 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He does not know more about it than you. He knows things about it that you do not.

And you do not know more about it than he. You know things about it that he does not.

Actually, TTH, since you do not know enough even to form an internal opinion, as you yourself admitted, you are particularly unqualified to render an educated opinion on whether I, or JWI is the most informed.

All "Global Warming" prognostications are based on  say 15 computer models, and information is adjusted, managed, and tweaked to make the models say whatever agrees with the source of funding.

JWI was, and is correct in his statement that I know more about the subject than he does ... and more to the point, I can PROVE my conclusions.

This would involve  charts, graphs, pocket calculators, and lectures on cosmology, orbital mechanics, physics heat transfer, and a dozen other subjects, that most people are never even exposed to .... much less have an understanding and a working knowledge of.

You are like a feather, blowing in the wind ... wishing that EVERYBODY was as uninformed, wrong, and wishy-washy as you are.

You cannot vote ...... on TRUTH.

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Global Warming  1989.jpg

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6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

JWI was, and is correct in his statement that I know more about the subject than he does ... and more to the point, I can PROVE my conclusions.

He probably just yielded to your intransigence. At any rate, despite all of your proof, you failed to convince him.

Actually, I tend to fall into your camp on this and would fall into it more firmly were it the core issue today. But it's not. People on both sides pound each other relentlessly over the issue and fail to convince. So I stop short of going the extra mile required to affirm in my own mind that it is as you say. I put my eggs in another basket.

It is certainly is a political issue, as you say, and as JWI says it is not. Rephrase it slightly, and even he will agree: it is certainly an issue that is politicized. Yes, I know of the sneaky globalist statements that they are using it to drive idealogical change. That makes sense to me. But it is not my main cause. I already have a main cause. 

If humans are not ruining the earth by climate change, it is not as though they are too responsible ever to ruin it. It is also not as though they are not ruining it, just by other means. These days, I must restrain myself from being a full-time zealot, not against climate change views, but against vaccine ones. I think it very likely that there are a host of ills to be laid at their feet and when those ills occur, they are more catastrophic and more immediate than climate change. 

It is the same story of demonization and misportrayal as with other contentious issues. Follow it via Twitter or somewhere else and you find that the "anti-vax" side - (they hate that label and charge, I think correctly, that it is deliberately assigned so as to portray them as loonies, since very few of them are anti ALL vaccines) come off as exceedingly well-informed and reasonable, not at all as the hysterical nuts portrayed by the other side.

Don't go against me on this, you calcified blockhead. I will not yield so readily on this one as I will on the climate.

7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You are like a feather, blowing in the wind ... wishing that EVERYBODY was as uninformed, wrong, and wishy-washy as you are.

You do not keep up, do you? No need to insult, "forcing" me to follow suit, We are now soul brothers, according to Billy. Act like it, please .

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When all is said and done ... you and Billy ARE my soul brothers, and I would defend you both with my life if necessary. 

We all take turns being wrong about many, many things, with the firm and profound belief that we are right.  It's part of being "big ugly bags of mostly water.

... just add gravel, and Portland Cement.

In the big red "Revelation" book, circa 15 or so years ago, it mentioned as an aside that Sir Isaac Newton may have been one of the Anointed. This sparked me reading two very large biographies on his life, and what impressed me the most was the fact that he never published anything without rigorous proof.

Rigorous proof means that the facts you use are checkable, and do not contradict known chemistry, physics, and science that makes the REAL world what it is.

If it cannot be expressed with HARD NUMBERS, and to "how many decimal places" ... it is NOT science .... it is ONLY opinion.

The things wars are fought over.

ALL agenda driven thinking, without exception always has been, , is now, and will always be faulty.

Tied to a bad idea.    .jpg

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@James Thomas Rook Jr.,

Predictions can be goofy when only a small portion of the facts are known. Also, people who write about summaries of science papers are often just "senior environmental officials" like the one above, not the actual scientists themselves. Summaries of science papers that make the media are often known to highlight false claims that were not in the paper, or even "misunderstand" the paper for maximum effect for purposes of fear, ideology, politics, money -- or some combination.

That said, we still don't know if this statement about reversing the global warming trend by the year 2000 was not a true statement. It is quite possible that something could and should have been done about it by then, and it is now too late (assuming no other radical interference, divine or otherwise, were to cause the reversal in the near future).

Here's a link to the entire article:

    Hello guest!

Here's more of the article, where I have highlighted some portions that may have already come true in bold/red, and portions already beginning to come true in bold/orange, for some parts of the world:

UNITED NATIONS (AP)—A senior U.N. environmental official says entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000. 

[comment: see Smithsonian article on Tuvalu

    Hello guest!
.  Also see articles on the Maldives environmental issues with rising seas. I have also have a friend who is a surveyor who gets most of his new work remapping coastal waterways up and down the east coast, especially Florida.]

Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of “eco-refugees,” threatening political chaos, said Noel Brown, director of the New York office of the U.N. Environment Program, or UNEP.

[To this we should add clean water shortages. Millions of persons dying as refugees, exacerbated by a party in power, have taken advantage of droughts to effectively produce genocidal conditions for refugees.]

He said governments have a 10-year window of opportunity to solve the greenhouse effect before it goes beyond human control.

As the warming melts polar icecaps, ocean levels will rise by up to three feet, enough to cover the Maldives and other flat island nations, Brown told The Associated Press in an interview on Wednesday.

[After significant polar icecap melting was noted, the rise in vulnerable areas has, at the worst, been only a matter of a few inches. And the ocean currents slosh the water around in ways that are very difficult to predict so that the specific areas most affected were unknown in 1989. Also, most of the rise is not yet due to polar ice melting, but thermal expansion of water due to warming. Although these few inches can mean unexpected masses of extra water that will cause a non-linear effect on coastal flooding. (A fact already well known from storms combined with regular tides, neap tides, etc.) In other words, even on the coast of Long Island an extra 3 inches of water is a billion dollar problem when combined with same strength of "Nor'easter" storm that would have caused almost no damage as barriers were already prepared for the base level plus storm/tide effects.]

Coastal regions will be inundated; one-sixth of Bangladesh could be flooded, displacing a fourth of its 90 million people. A fifth of Egypt’s arable land in the Nile Delta would be flooded, cutting off its food supply, according to a joint UNEP and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency study. . . .

[This might not be an exaggeration either, even if it appears to have been premature. Bangladesh in the Ganges delta has already seen a major increase in number of people displaced which really is in the millions. But unfortunately, the millions who were displaced are often just moving back to the same places.]

Shifting climate patterns would bring back 1930s Dust Bowl conditions to Canadian and U.S. wheatlands, while the Soviet Union could reap bumper crops if it adapts its agriculture in time, according to a study by UNEP and the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis.

-------------------------end of excerpt from WSJ 1989----------------------

That last paragraph was just political posturing to stoke fears of Russia getting an economic/agricultural upper hand over the United States. It is true, that non-coastal flooding and fires which are much more common in the last two decades, have produced "dust bowl" conditions to smaller areas once populated or farmed.

Some additional information on the rising sea levels on the East Coast including North Carolina's 5 inch rise over a 5 year period.

    Hello guest!

image.png

 

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I am not arguing that there is not "Global Warming".

There IS!

This is a natural cycle that is determined by orbital mechanics of our Earth, and the various cycles that our VARIABLE STAR,  the Sun naturally goes through.

On this clear gas planet, Earth, with its predominate Nitrogen atmosphere of "one atmosphere" at sea level , It's all about geometry, and the fact that all radiated energy follows the inverse square law.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MANKIND CAN DO TO MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER.

Nothing mankind can do to cause, or accelerate global warming.

...and nothing we can do to slow or stop it.

That's the way Jehovah designed the system.

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2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

When all is said and done ... you and Billy ARE my soul brothers, and I would defend you both with my life if necessary. 

Because you behaved and said good things and not bad things to me and have never shared pointers on how to construct a nuclear bomb on the theory that the public has the right to know, unlike some partipants here, I will even throw you a bone:

Someone on Twitter was grumbling about how they kept interrupting golf yesterday with the results of the Mueller investigation. “Golf is too important to be continually interrupted with this rubbish!” he said.

I replied: “You are looking at this all wrong. It was golf. It was a huge “FORE!’ to accusers of the POTUS.”

Some things are going your way, aren’t they?

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4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I am not arguing that there is not "Global Warming".

There IS!

Understood.

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

This is a natural cycle that is determined by orbital mechanics of our Earth, and the various cycles that our VARIABLE STAR,  the Sun naturally goes through.

Yes. I agree that there are natural cycles and variations to be accounted for, if possible. But the current situation is based on data that actually fits atmospheric modeling that is unrelated to those larger cycles that we can do nothing about. And yes, to an earlier point, it is quite possible that the modeling is off because modelers have been working backwards to make the data fit a belief (hypothesis). But this is a good part of how science modeling actually works. You look at "real world" data and try to correlate several of the variables that fit a hypothesis to test. But no one should put any faith in the models until they can be used to produce accurate predictions of the results for tests elsewhere, or tests with wide variations in those variables. 

But it turns out that the greenhouse gas models work for both Earth and Venus. And to some extent they can predict solutions for man-made experimentation in "closed systems" on a smaller scale. 

We might even be in a situation where, worldwide, we could end up spending billions (or even trillions) on solutions that actually do turn around a man-made problem. But then, between 0 and 1,000 years from now, certain of these "outside" cycles and variations that you speak about could theoretically also combine to reverse all these [once successful] efforts.

It doesn't mean either theory of global warming is wrong. Outside, uncontrollable forces can (and definitely have) had an effect on global warming (and cooling), and man-made issues have also combined to produce global warming. We might coincidentally even be seeing a combination. And certain assumptions (sometimes dangerously misleading ones) may have to be made to be able to distinguish the probable effects of each type of effect to determine what sources of global warming we are currently looking at.

My father drove us from California to NYC in 1968, and he took us to visit the worst portion of Lake Erie in 1968 and I saw it again in 1972, and we saw the "flammable" river in Pittsburgh. These were some examples of man-made problems that were getting worse, but reversed when action was taken soon enough. Whether that is relevant to this climate situation remains to be seen.

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3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

In the big red "Revelation" book, circa 15 or so years ago, it mentioned as an aside that Sir Isaac Newton may have been one of the Anointed. This sparked me reading two very large biographies on his life, and what impressed me the most was the fact that he never published anything without rigorous proof.

What impressed me was that he wrote more about God than about math and science combined.

 

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MANKIND CAN DO TO MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER.

I don't know why this would be so. Nor do I think this is among the things that you have proved with your FACTS. You may have proved other things, but not this one. This is opinion.

JWI produces different facts to go toe to toe with you. Is he wrong? He may well be, but please don't tell me he is uninformed.

14 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You [TTH] are like a feather, blowing in the wind ... wishing that EVERYBODY was as uninformed, wrong, and wishy-washy as you are.

The reason that I only weigh in mildly is that I see that people I respect fall both ways on this. It is irrelevant to me since there is nothing I can do about it, and I live frugally enough that were climate change an indisputable fact, I would still be more part of the solution than part of the problem. It is not the core issue for Christians. God will fix it. To that extent, @Srecko Sostar's objection about JWs is right.

Where it is wrong is in his assumption that "involved" Jehovah's Witnesses would all come down on his side. They would not. They would divide, and the net effect would be no different that what is now. In fact, (here is another scenario that works against his argument--not entirely consistent with the first one I offered) since JWs are largely the "uneducated," they will not trust the harangue's of the "elite"on this matter, since they have learned from experience that such harangues are rarely in their own interests and usually benefits those elites that issue them.

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On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 12:24 AM, BillyTheKid46 said:

I won’t offer scripture since it is meaningless according to TTH in this forum. I expect the same in return. Only “witness” is allowed to enter a barrage of Biblical citations without the condemnation of TTH. It offends him seeing it from others.

Oh, stuff it, Billy. I can outlast you on this. I am like a hurricane that gathers strength over warm water. I am every bit as crazy as you, only set on a more pleasant and peacemaking course. I write in a more appealing manner. There is only so far one can go in telling everyone else to EDUCATE themselves if they are not too UNINTELLIGENT so as to avoid revealing how APOSTATE they are. I have never detected an ounce of humility in any of your writing. Before you make like a theocratic POTUS set to drain the Internet swamp, you should repent and cultivate some.

Let's go back to what you proposed before in another persona: "You keep out of my way and I'll keep out of yours."

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3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

In order for anyone to debate global warming, they would at least need to know the basic. 

I suggest one start with the Jerry Reed song, When You’re Hot, You’re Hot:

Well me and Homer Jones and Big John Talley 
Had a big crap game goin' back in the alley 
And I kept rollin' them sevens , winnin' all them pots 
My luck was so good I could do no wrong 
I jest kept on rollin' and controllin' them bones 
And finally they jest threw up their hands and said 
"When you hot, you hot" 
I said "Yeah?" 
When you're hot, you're hot 
And when you're not, you're not 
Put all the money in and let's roll 'em again 
When you're hot, you're hot 
(La la la la la la la) (La la la la la) 
(La la la la la la la, when you're hot, you're hot) 
Well, now every time I rolled them dice I'd win 
And I was just gettin' ready to roll 'em again 
When I heard somethin' behind me 
I turned around and there was a big old cop 
He said "Hello, boys" and then he gave us a grin 'n' said 
"Look like I'm gonna hafta haul you all in 
And keep all that money for evidence" 
I said, "Well, son when you hot, you hot" 
He said "Yeah" 
When you're hot, you're hot 
And when you're not, you're not 
You can 'splain it all down at City Hall 
I say, yeah, when you're hot, you're hot 
You're hot 
(La la la la la la la) (La la la la la) 
(La la la la la la la, when you're hot, you're hot) 
Well, when he took us inta court I couldn't believe my eyes 
The judge was a fishin' buddy that I recognized 
I said "Hey, judge, old buddy, old pal" 
"I'll pay ya that hundred I owe ya if you'll get me outta this spot" 
So he gave my friends a little fine to pay 
He turned around and grinned at me and said 
"Ninety days, Jerry, when you hot, you hot" 
'n' I said "Thanks a lot" 
When you're hot, you're hot 
And when you're not, you're not 
He let my friends go free and throwed the book at me 
He said "Well, when you're hot, you're hot" 
I said "well I'll tell ya one thing judge, old buddy, old pal" 
"If you wasn't wearin' that black robe I'd take out in back of this courthouse 
"And I'd try a little bit of your honor on" 
"You understand that, you hillbilly?" 
"Who gonna collect my welfare?" 
(When you're hot, you're hot") 
"Pay for my Cadillac?" 
Whadda you mean 'contempt of court'?" 
(When you're hot, you're hot") 
"Judge"
Songwriters: J. Reed
When You're Hot, You're Hot lyrics © Hori Pro Entertainment Group

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The only way to learn the truth about whether "global warming" is real ... and whether it is a naturally occurring phenomena that mankind can do NOTHING about, or is caused by human interaction with the environment, which may or may not be able to be stopped or reversed, is to YOU PERSONALLY educate yourself with the math, physics, chemistry, meteorology, and ocean sciences, and orbital mechanics, etc.,  ..... to be able to tell the difference between hoax, fraud, fake science, and religious hysteria and hallucination that this issue has become.

And then sit down and draw sketches, accumulate data ... possibly completely wear out a scientific pocket calculator .... or two, and then correlate what you PERSONALLY know with astronomy, and other related sciences ... comparing the physics of other planets' atmospheric meteorology to see if conclusions by others make sense, or have any validity whatsoever.

If you are not willing to YOU PERSONALLY do this ... and take a decade, or 20 years, or the rest of your life ... then your opinions will be based on FAITH .... NOT SCIENCE.

FAITH in the opinions and conclusions of others .... the new global religion of "Man Caused Climate Change".

Faith in the opinions and conclusions of others, where you have not PERSONALLY proved it yourself, is not TRUTH.

Seek ONLY THE TRUTH.  

In science, and in religion, and in all things.

However, although you will fail to get the correct answers ...... intellectual integrity can also be accomplished by not caring, to the point you do not believe anybody, about anything.

... and is a LOT less work.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

If you are not willing to YOU PERSONALLY do this ... and take a decade, or 20 years, or the rest of your life ... then your opinions will be based on FAITH .... NOT SCIENCE.

Okay. Got it. Let me pencil that in the calendar.

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Well, that’s a new one. I know that AI is smart, but has it even adjusted to my being religious?

What must I do to be one of the chosen?

Wait. My bad. I misread it. It is me who has to choose, (despite being on this network forever) not be chosen. I was about to ask @Witness.

MSFT should be a penny stock.

C088B1C0-ECBF-498E-B9E5-DAFB69083B85.jpeg

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It may be as a practical matter almost impossible to "catch-up", Billy, but you need to spend a year researching what a bunch of fraudsters and fakers the IPCC is. There have been many documentations of their internal "bad science" ... BECAUSE ... they faked data to fit the fake models.

If you spend now  until about mid-2020 you might... MIGHT ... catch up.

The key words to start with is "IPCC emails".

    Hello guest!

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@BillyTheKid46 Yes. Meanwhile, you have people will speak of global warming and climate change, and at the same time they ignore recent events concerning such, for example, glaciers in Greenland, while on the other side of things you have people at NASA in a situation such as this:

Image result for spongebob brain on fire gif

 

That being said, there is always something about global and climate change when it is concerning the powers that be, and those who think they know such things without doing a little bit of the research show themselves unaware of things.

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It may be as a practical matter almost impossible to "catch-up", Billy, but you need to spend a year researching what a bunch of fraudsters and fakers the IPCC is. There have been many documentations of their internal "bad science" ... BECAUSE ... they faked data to fit the fake models.

If you spend now  until about mid-2020 you might... MIGHT ... catch up.

The key words to start with is "IPCC emails".

    Hello guest!

You beat me to the finish line, but yes, absolutely yes. The powers that be LOVE to spin the global warming/climate change narrative, mixing and picking a truth with untruths, and so forth. Money tends to talk if it tickles the right ears, in this sense.

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On 3/22/2019 at 10:31 PM, The Librarian said:

@TrueTomHarley I still getting used to this theme.

I think I will actually ask the @admin to go back to the default. 

It was giving me a "headache" and put me off coming here. Glad it's back to normal.

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13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

    Hello guest!
y-growing?cmpid=NL_SciTech

News outlets, even those who support global warming (climate change) science, have contributed to the belief that we should not trust 99 scientists out of 100 by so often giving nearly 50 percent of their coverage to the nay-sayer instead of only 1 percent. And some news outlets, appealing to older conservative audiences, like FoxNews, will focus only on the 1 percent, as if only 1 of the 99 is telling the truth and the other 99 must have a hidden agenda. And it's still mostly non-scientists who write the news and decide how to "position" "dramatize" or politicize these various reports. 

This is also the case of a Greenland glacier that had been rapidly thinning for 20 years but has spent the last 3 years slowing down and therefore actually getting thicker in parts. Some news outlets have pointed to the anomaly as if it might create doubt about the general pattern. Of course, the report about this glacier came from the same scientists that their audience is supposed to always mistrust. So the focus is on how this anomaly surprised "the scientists" as if they were dumbfounded about how they could have been so wrong.

Since we are being taught to only trust news outlets instead of science outlets, how about this one from Forbes?

    Hello guest!

But even before reading this much better article in Forbes one should read carefully the claims made in the FoxNews version:

The glacier — known as Jakobshavn, which sits on Greenland's west coast — is still contributing to sea level rise, but it's losing less ice than expected. . . .

But this crisp change won't last forever. Once the NAO climate pattern flips back, the Jakobshavn will likely start melting faster and thinning again, the researchers said.

"Jakobshavn is getting a temporary break from this climate pattern," Josh Willis, of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the principal investigator of OMG, said in the statement. "But in the long run, the oceans are warming. And seeing the oceans have such a huge impact on the glaciers is bad news for Greenland's ice sheet."

The FoxNews article admits that the glacier lost 500 feet in height (think of a 50 story building) but gained back 100 feet largely through snow accumulation.

Between 2003 and 2016, its thickness (from top to bottom) dwindled by 500 feet (152 meters).

But in 2016, the waters flowing from Greenland's southern tip to its western side cooled by more than 2.7 degrees Fahrenheit . . .

In all, Jakobshavn grew about 100 feet (30 m) taller between 2016 and 2017, the researchers found. But, as mentioned, the glacier is still contributing to ocean level rise worldwide, as it's still losing more ice to the ocean than it is gaining from snow accumulation, the researchers said.

The Forbes article is better in that it avoids the sensationalism of only focusing on the quotes of scientists who were surprised at the anomaly, and also quotes scientists who claimed to realize that this type of thing is expected. (There are always going to be 'exceptions that prove the rule.')

The more important surprise is a more dangerous one, in that it shows just how sensitive glaciers are to water temperatures, and therefore this is worse news than expected. The Forbes article adds:

    Hello guest!

Bad news is, if glaciers are this sensitive to the ocean, we’ll be revising sea level rise projections upwards [a]gain soon.

He's right and that's ugly.

uncaptioned image

The article points out that this glacier alone contributed 1 mm to this 90 mm rise since 1995. Also:

It is important to remember that oceans are also not the only driver of Greenland's melt. A 2019 study

    Hello guest!
is a stark reminder that Greenland is melting four times faster than expected. The OMG tends to focus on ocean process, but other scientists studying Greenland's climate highlight other key factors too (atmospheric warming and more humid atmosphere, more liquid water clouds, darkening surface from earlier melt). While "the pause" is "relatively" good news and a good lesson on the role of regional variability within a dynamic climate system , it must not be overplayed or spun to some narrative that climate change is not happening or has reversed.

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All things change ... get used to it !

What used to be the sea bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, with all the fishes, large and small ... is now Texas, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, and States North.

With glaciers, what used to be the plains of what we now call Illinois and surrounding States is now the Great Lakes .

The mighty Mississippi River was relocated when the land tilted by Earthquakes.

At one time, the ENTIRE planet Earth was covered with two MILES of ice.  Before that,  molten lava 4,000 miles deep.

The Earth is slowing down its rotation about 2 milliseconds every hundred years, as the Moon gets further and further away, at about 1-1/2 inches per year.

I have in a bookcase here at home, a pie shaped section of a tree cut from a slice of a petrified tree that I bought in Arizona, where millions of trees lie on the ground, exposed by erosion, and it still has the rings and bark on the outside arc, replaced molecule by molecule, as the wood was replaced by minerals, and became stone. 

This tree fell to Earth in Nicaragua 283 MILLION years ago and at a small fraction of an inch per year was carried, with a whole forest of similar trees, by continental drift to what is now Arizona ..... where someone picked it up, cut it, and I bought it.

The Earth is changing. 

Always has .... always will.

What used to be jungles, are now deserts. What used to be deserts are now jungles.  What used to be flat plains are now mountains.

Mankind does not possess the ability to affect climate change ... one way or another.  Not to cause it. Not to change it. Not to stop it.

The only REAL greenhouse gas is water vapor ... a multi trillion ton collection of floating WATER. 

Clouds that circle the Earth, and float above  your head ... shiny on the top ... dark on the bottom ... covering continents,  nations and oceans.

And of course, that ever present fusion reactor in the sky, 93,000,000 miles away, our variable star called The Sun.

If we had a spasm total global thermonuclear war, setting the entire Earth on fire ... we would have a global nuclear winter for about four years, devastation almost beyond imagination.

And then ... rain would wash the pollutants out of the air and it would fall to Earth as acid rain ... and in about ten years, the climate would return to what it was ... as determined by our Star, the Sun, and orbital mechanics .... whatever it is.

Even with total global thermonuclear war, we cannot change the climate ... only the weather for about a decade.

All things change ... get used to it !

If the sea levels rise ......

buy a boat!

... or move !

Major-role-of-water-vapor-and-very-minor-role-of-CO-2-in-the-greenhouse-effect.png

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1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

It would certainly be something to consider if a person lives in a fantasy world dictated by their own imagination. Something missing from that fantasy of 283 million years of evolution seems to be humans. Unless someone can find factual evidence man existed 283 million years ago and were privy to the same conditions of climate change by natural erosion.

Billy ..... you are the best I have ever seen at misapplying whatever anyone says.   You take someone's key words and misapply them to  fit your own agenda.

("Something missing from that fantasy of 283 million years of evolution....")

In this case, the word "erosion", which you have mentioned several times, and has NOTHING to do with this conversation.

This is a COMMON problem of ALL agenda driven thinking processes

I said the piece of petrified wood I have is 283 million years old ... NOT that mankind was 283 million years old.

When your ENTIRE thinking processes are controlled, governed, and shaped by AGENDA ... you can ignore a billion and more tons of HARD EVIDENCE.

Agenda driven thinking ALWAYS results in theocratic hallucinations.

Add that to negligible reading comprehension, and you live in a cartoon world, untouched by tawdry or magnificent reality.

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Okay, TTH, admit when you have overstated it. You told @Srecko Sostar and @JW Insider that Americans were split 50/50 on climate change.

In fact, it looks like 2/3 think it exists and is man-made. 1/5 think it is a fraud. 

44% worry much about it, down from 60 something. About 1/3, including some who think it is real and manmade, don’t fret about it.

With all the ideologues, zealot, and sometimes outright liars trying to skew perceptions in their direction, one looks for new indicators from trustworthy sources. For me, that is statements of the WT that they are now devoting multiple times the resources that they one did to disaster relief.

    Hello guest!

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41 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You told @Srecko Sostar and @JW Insider that Americans were split 50/50 on climate change.

Americans in the United States are close enough to 50/50. But to be fair, you weren't speaking about Americans. I only responded to your claim about "the world."

On 3/22/2019 at 4:11 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

The world splits down the middle on climate change.

Measuring stats from Gallup-style surveys can be very misleading, too, especially on a topic that varies so much by demographic (education, age and political ideology). 17 year old HS students in rural areas will have a different outlook than 18 year old college students in cities. Lack of worry can be a positive measure among some and a negative outlook of total despair among others. 

57 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

For me, that is statements of the WT that they are now devoting multiple times the resources that they one did to disaster relief.

It's to be expected, in my opinion too, but it does not necessarily follow that these additional resources are due to climate change. There might have been a decision to devote more resources due to several other factors. And if funds for these purposes were to run out, it would also not follow that climate change disasters had diminished. 

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19 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

And if funds for these purposes were to run out, it would also not follow that climate change disasters had diminished. 

Coincidence is not causality.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

For me, that is statements of the WT that they are now devoting multiple times the resources that they one did to disaster relief.

That's the thing about WDS ... it makes you see things that are not there .... a theocratic hallucination.  A mirage. The remembrance of a favorite cartoon that was never actually made.

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20 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Mankind does not possess the ability to affect climate change ... one way or another.  Not to cause it. Not to change it. Not to stop it.

I think it can be misleading to look at the ability of the atmosphere to absorb billions of tons of elements in the form of gases and particulates outside of the "normal" levels of Carbon Dioxide, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Dihydrogen Monoxide 😉, Methane, Ozone, etc. But the theory of global warming is really about "tipping points." It's not "linear." The atmosphere can absorb tons of "pollutants, but only up to a certain point when new effects can be measured.

It's also an attempt to explain why we have been able to measure the gasses trapped in ice for thousands of years based on deep core samples and see a very stable rise and fall in "greenhouse gases" up until the last few decades. These are evidently natural cycles. You can think of distortion, interference or spikes in an otherwise smooth sine wave on an oscilloscope. These "spikes" could be from oceanic or volcanic disruptions over the last thousands of years, and we can't really correlate these with global temperatures since there was no one there to measure prior to the last few decades. So the threshold line is theoretically arbitrary. Still, if we could hypothesize a "tipping point" threshold line, it's easy to see that spikes that occur below the threshold line would be meaningless. But to test the theory we would want to watch for possible additional effects over the line. But now we have a new spike that hasn't abated, and it's 10 times taller than the last spike on the chart below (not shown).

Why a huge spike now? Is there more volcanic activity now? NO. Is there more methane and CO2  released now? YES. So this is where and why we would start looking for cause and effect.

image.png

It's not fully analogous, but some TV Science channel once ran a special about how you could kill the Sun with a chunk of iron. Completely false, but it turns out that there are stars of certain sizes that would not survive an influx of iron. More accurately, stars fuse hydrogen to helium -- and the core of the star, through real alchemy, can "fuse" elements all the way up to iron, but no further. If it starts trying to fuse iron, it means its energy will quickly be lost and the star will quickly collapse. The point is that it might be surprising that a star (depending on mass/gravity) that has a certain level of iron in it could be fine, but just a tiny bit more and the whole star just collapses.

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4 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Therefore, whose fault is it that the earth is eroding faster than it would naturally? That affects climate change and enhances the effect of natural disasters.

Billy ... climate change may contribute to accelerated erosion ..... but accelerated erosion DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE TO CLIMATE CHANGE.

"Everybody says" that because the CO2 levels are rising, the earth is getting warmer.

THEY ARE WRONG

The Earth is getting warmer because it is a natural cycle, due to orbital mechanics of our planet, and the variability of our Star, the Sun.

BECAUSE it is getting warmer, bacteria is flourishing  more than when it is cooler.

Bacteria exhale CO2, just as we do.  Then the trees use CO2, strip off the carbon to make wood, and exhale oxygen.

You are fixated on erosion.

There is an expression for this phenomena of perspective.

"When you are a hammer ... EVERYTHING looks like a nail."

 

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22 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

There is no pseudoscience with climate change and only people like EVANS would think so.

Here is all that anyone needs to know about Evans:

The most abusive of the major players is Lloyd, though perhaps that is because we have already crossed paths enough for me to consider him my nemesis. He is certainly not the most abusive of the minor players. One of the Redditt latter said: “F**k you! Call me:” and then supplied phone and email. “It is not as though you have given me fine incentive to do so,” I replied. Did he seriously expect a response? What is it with these characters? One thing that will be said of my remarks is that I do not run anyone into the ground, I do not call anyone a liar, nor do I call anyone I disagree with a “disgusting human being,” as Lloyd does with me in a heartbeat.

TTH: It is the common mark of a zealot to demand full agreement in every particular and denounce anything falling short of that as evidence of “a disgusting human being.” It is common practice for such a one to slash & burn, while offering nothing in replacement.

LE: Tom, you stood up for Rutherford over his vile antisemitism, so it's no surprise to see you standing up for written, documented policies that put children within reach of the most depraved of humanity. You are an utter disgrace. Thankfully, nobody's listening to you.

TTH: It’s a little too soon to tell who is listening. You will probably never know, nor will I. There are many people in the world. They form & change points of view as new things comes to their attention. Nobody turns on a dime.

LE: As obnoxious as Tom’s sniveling apologetics for antisemitism and the cover-up of abuse may be, laced as they are with dishonesty, cowardice & a total abandonment of logic &  humanity, it’s hard not to pity him. He’s a boy in a man’s body trying to feel important.

He raised the antisemitism charge several times, apparently thinking that it got under my skin. It refers to a letter Rutherford wrote in 1933 to an infant Nazi government in which he assured them that Witnesses were apolitical and not a threat. He did not avoid derogatory stereotypes of the day regarding Jews. This was long before anything of the Holocaust took shape, and a former director of the Holocaust Museum in Washington, Rabbi Michael Barenbaum, has declared it insignificant to the overall picture.

    Hello guest!

TTH: Aside from those minor points I am actually very likable. And [I finally indulged myself] the anti-semitism charge is drivel, you infantile idiot.

I noticed some tweets had vanished and I am unaccustomed to seeing this:

LE: Ste blocked you due to realizing what I’ve known all along: that you’re disingenuous & bereft of reason & humanity. I’m entertained by you, which is why I’m not blocking you. Ste thought he could persuade you and has better uses for his time and indulging your brain farts.

Hmm. Could that be? Nah:

TTH: I didn’t come after him. In no way was I a troll. I have never had to block anyone in my life, even if they were not entertaining. No, I think it is for my first reason. [that he had tagged some journalists and now he didn’t want them to see answers to charges he had made]

But Lloyd told me that Ste blocked me because I was odious and that he “has the right to manage his social media experience,” as though his Twitter feed was an artistic tapestry that would hang on his wall for posterity.

TTH: Demonization & abuse of the ideological enemy happens everywhere. It is played out in many areas, most notably today (but not limited to) national politics of right vs left. It is a good thing to follow these other concerns, both sides, for it enables one to see the overall picture.

LE: Again, I’m not demonizing you. I’m merely giving you a rare dose of reality. You’re little more than an anomaly lurking in the Twitter shadows terrified of going public lest your elders give you a spanking in the back room. It bothers me not whether you wit or carry on, because—follows a gif of a Spongebob character: “Nobody cares!”

TTH: I would say that writing two free books IS going public. The pen is mightier than the podcast, especially when the host of that podcast has an affinity for taunting gifs. I mean, how far is one going to get on such a podcast?

LE: As you know, the podcast invitation has long since been withdrawn now that I know how disingenuous and morally-bankrupt you are. And it’s cute that you think the public are remotely interested in your e-books, one of which lauds you as the self-proclaimed vanquisher of apostates. 

Just how stupid does he think his followers are? He worked tirelessly to get me on his podcast and was as nice as pie until it finally dawned upon him that I was not going to take the bait. That invitation would reappear in two seconds if he thought that I would take it now. He lives to tear to shreds those he opposes, and his followers know and relish it.

After an interval, when he thought my back was turned (but it wasn’t) he tweeted to a chum:

LE: I love your ability to see the best in people but Tom’s not really a nice guy IRL or elsewhere. If you’re a “nice” JW and you discover Rutherford’s antisemitism, you keep quiet and chalk it down to human imperfection. Tom, on the other hand, defends & minimizes it. Nasty

sigh…

TTH: You blockhead. It’s the same thing! “Human imperfection” WAS my defense! What! One should be crucified for human imperfection?

 

Don’t misunderstand. I didn’t knock the ball out of the park. I think it is pretty clearly demonstrated who the bigoted bully is, but that does not mean more will not side with him then with me, for the topic is nasty, the article is actually well-done, and the figures within are portrayed as ones who have suffered mightily in their unrelenting quest of whistleblowing. That sort of thing plays well today. Besides, he had already clearly shown his bullying tactics when he tweet-bombarded certain woman’s groups for 52 straight days with counsel that they should denounce WT for some council to women that he found appalling. He even kept hammering them after one of them said: ‘We’ll look into it.’ He even kept hammering after I appended my tweet to his: “It’s as though Lloyd says: G*d****t, ANSWER me when I’m talking to you!!” But he has tons of followers. There is considerable infighting in that community and I suspect his side puts up with his swaggering because he gets the job done.

No, I didn’t hit any grand slam home runs. On the other hand, I didn’t tell myself that I was going to. I simply appeared to present a contrasting take. Otherwise, the take is monolithic, and it is presented over and over and over again.

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It's not fully analogous, but some TV Science channel once ran a special about how you could kill the Sun with a chunk of iron.

It would have to be a small star sized chunk of iron .... probably not something you could get at an automobile scrap yard.

Further, when a star collapses, it can go Nova, or Supernova, which is how we get elements heavier than iron.  This is the natural life cycles of Stars, and there is NOTHING we can to to speed it up, slow it down, or ANYTHING ... except watch.

I suspect in the New System, with perfect people, and 10,000 years of scientific advancement, this will STILL be true.

Same with "Climate Change", AKA "Global Warming.

There is nothing we can do except watch .....

and perhaps move to the mountains, or buy a boat.

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14 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I suspect in the New System, with perfect people, and 10,000 years of scientific advancement, this will STILL be true.

As you may know, the current organization purposes that many of its deeds will extend right into the new system.

I’ve been assigned to work on this problem. I just about have it figured out.

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6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

There is nothing we can do except watch ..... 

I agree, so far, with everything else in that last post except this claim that there is nothing we can do but watch. I think that, as Witnesses, we should have faith that these problems will be completely resolved by the end of the thousand year reign. I don't think it is the responsibility of Witnesses to be climate activists, but we should be aware of the science and do our best to understand it ourselves, or find trustworthy sources to inform us on the topic. I'm sure you feel this is what you have done.

It is difficult to be fully informed on our own, and this is true of most subjects. Fortunately, my son graduated with his degree in physics and he teaches physics and math. He also stays in contact with classmates (former roommates) who have already gone on to work in areas of physics that have a bearing on the topic.

I still need to do a lot more work on the claims about water vapor being the only greenhouse gas that has any significance. From what I have seen so far, this has been a common claim of those who deny the consensus of climate scientists. However . . .

Water vapor is a completely different kind of greenhouse gas that doesn't trap heat in the same way as methane and CO2. Besides, even though it does trap heat to some extent, it also releases it, cools it, dissipates it, and because clouds are white, it even manages to reflect a lot of solar heat back out away from the earth. There may be a lot of water vapor, but within our current atmosphere, it has surprisingly little effect on the question of why we are seeing a rise global warming and the melting of polar ice. (Except to the extent that water vapor protects us from runaway effects of those greenhouse gases that are much more efficient at trapping heat.)

But I also see another point worth mentioning, I think. Climate science consensus deniers (yes, it's a prejudicial term, but you know what I mean) they have written as if this is something that climate scientists have ignored, as if it's something brand new to them that they have never factored in. I found that implication (or explicit claim in one case) to be totally without basis. So far I haven't seen any treatments of climate change by "consensus" climate scientists who have in any way ignored the actual "numbers" and effects of water vapor. But I will admit to needing a bit more of my own research on this topic.

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8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

  you stood up for Rutherford over his vile antisemitism,

Tom, people like Loyd Evans will take anything, and everything JW's have ever done, said, and written for the last 100+ years and insinuate either bad motives, sheer ignorance, or evilness.

The stunning thing is that nothing, absolutely nothing we have ever done, said, and written has ever been good in their eyes. I think Hitler would fair better. The thing is, LE is an obsessed activist, that's all he does with his life. (I am not sure he even works...) but you already know that. The sad thing there is absolutely no reasoning with him, I think you already know that too. As regards the Rutherford letter, I will have to dig up an apologist explanation for Rutherford's seeming sympathizing sentiments. It was written by a non JW, you may have seen it, I will dig it up and post a link to it here. 

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

I will have to dig up an apologist explanation for Rutherford's seeming sympathizing sentiments. It was written by a non JW, you may have seen it, 

No.

Lloyd certainly seems to me a nasty piece of work. Still, he represents kicking over the traces and partnering with authority, rather than submitting to it. Those things are all the rage today.

I never engage with him for the sake of engaging with him. There is always another purpose. And it doesn’t happen often. The important thing is to never retaliate. Then his nastiness stands out all the more clearly.

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47 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:
2 hours ago, Anna said:

I will have to dig up an apologist explanation for Rutherford's seeming sympathizing sentiments. It was written by a non JW, you may have seen it, 

No.

Here you go:

    Hello guest!

It's a little off topic here...maybe when you have copied it I should make a new topic?

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9 hours ago, Anna said:

It's a little off topic here...maybe when you have copied it I should make a new topic?

Nah, not for my sake anyway. Scoundrels always disassociate remarks from the settings in which they were written so as to create a false impression. I’m willing to accept that in JR’s bluntness (for he certainly was that, wasn’t he?) he failed to steer around some negative stereotypes of the day.

It wasn’t his purpose to give PC lectures. It was his purpose to remove roadblocks to the spread of the Bible message.

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20 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

By all means TTH? Start a new thread about the misconception 

Some things are too trivial to spend time on. One blows past it instead, accept the common sense explanation that anyone with common sense would accept, and move on. You don’t have to sanitize everything.

Let the anal people try to spin gold out of what is at worst a Rutherford faux pas. All you really need do is demonstrate that they are anal. Such things don’t interest me.

I have come to feel that an anal person will never stop being an anal person. Don’t indulge them unless your purpose is for something greater.

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On 3/30/2019 at 9:56 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Scoundrels always disassociate remarks from the settings in which they were written so as to create a false impression.

Yes. And I don't know if you noticed, in that book extract, Gabriele Yonan states: " When the entire text of the Declaration of 25 June 1933 and the letter to Hitler are seen today in the context of the history of Jehovah's Witnesses during the period of National Socialism in Germany and the history of their religious resistance and their stand during the Holocaust, then the text does not present itself as an "antisemitic statement" or an attempt at "currying the favor" of Hitler. These accusations, stemming from present-day church circles, are deliberate manipulations and falsifications of history, seemingly motivated by guilt over the churches' own involvement or lack or involvement in the persecutions.

So active haters like Lloyd Evans are merely piggy backing on the Churches reasons for criticizing Rutherford's letter. They do not have their own original criticism. This is hilarious since LE is an atheist, but as you see, when it comes to being hateful about JW org, he has no qualms about being one with Christendom. But that is to be expected.

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5 hours ago, Anna said:

Yes. And I don't know if you noticed, in that book extract, Gabriele Yonan states: " When the entire text of the Declaration of 25 June 1933 and the letter to Hitler are seen today in the context of the history of Jehovah's Witnesses during the

It’s good. It’s thorough. I’m glad the brother wrote it. It wins the ‘fact’ battle. 

But it does not win the ‘perception’ battle. It is too long. There is no possible way that Lloyd would ever read it. At absolute most he would skim it & it would have no effect upon his overall program.

It is not even an attribute of he specifically. It is an attribute of human nature. People are supertankers who, assuming they want to, turn very very slowly. (and he doesn’t want to)

It is persuasive only when linked to as a footnote for support. It is not persuasive in itself. People simply are not that way. That is why I am happy that such things exist, but I do not focus on them.

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18 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I’m glad the brother wrote it.

It's not a brother, lol. In fact it's a woman who is not, and never has been a JW xD

    Hello guest!

19 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There is no possible way that Lloyd would ever read it. At absolute most he would skim it & it would have no effect upon his overall program.

That's probably true. What intrigues me though is where he got those ideas from in the first place, if not from disgruntled Christendom.

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41 minutes ago, Anna said:

That's probably true. What intrigues me though is where he got those ideas from in the first place, if not from disgruntled Christendom.

There is a “playbook” that they do not stray far from.

His entire beef about how JWs react to issues of environment is exactly the same as one I answered 10 years ago on my blog.

(And JWs that respond do not do so effectively, IMO. They say ‘well, we care about the environment too. Really, we do’ and then say something about the Green Globes - buying into his premise that his side is fixing things and might even solve them if JWs would but forget their preaching and pitch in. I like to show how stupid the premise is.)

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My contribution to "Global Warming" is limited to accidentally leaving my bathroom window open.

 

REMEMBER !   Every home, office, factory and other building that is heated ... every single one ..... without exception ... eventually loses that heat from the inside, to the outside.  Think of 5 BILLION hot spots on the Earth, sucking up natural gas, oil, electricity, propane, coal and uranium, and turning it into HEAT!

Even in the summer, air conditioners pump HEAT to the outside air.

 

Now that you are excited, and hyper-ventilating in an ecological save the planet or we are all doomed panic ....  what does that mean as a practical, real life matter?

 

Absolutely NOTHING!

 

 

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2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

My contribution to "Global Warming" is limited to accidentally leaving my bathroom window open.

 

REMEMBER !   Every home, office, factory and other building that is heated ... every single one ..... without exception ... eventually loses that heat from the inside, to the outside.  Think of 5 BILLION hot spots on the Earth, sucking up natural gas, oil, electricity, propane, coal and uranium, and turning it into HEAT!

Even in the summer, air conditioners pump HEAT to the outside air.

 

Now that you are excited, and hyper-ventilating in an ecological save the planet or we are all doomed panic ....  what does that mean as a practical, real life matter?

 

Absolutely NOTHING!

 

 

What about all those nasty cow farts?

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8 hours ago, Anna said:

What about all those nasty cow farts?

The most methane produced on Earth is by Volcanoes, which seem to not to want to cooperate with the people brokering and selling Carbon Credits, to promote Socialism through equalizing money throughout the Earth ... minus their 15% commissions, of course, like the companies Al Gore created to do exactly that .... and the second highest methane producers are Chinese rice paddies.

None of which matters, because we live in an atmosphere that is about 21% Oxygen, 78% Nitrogen, and 1% other gasses, which are totally irrelevant ... including methane. 

The ONLY real "greenhouse gas" is  plain old WATER VAPOR .... big mile deep clouds ... shiny on the top ... dark on the bottom .... like a giant floating space age blanket.  The more clouds you have in the daytime the cooler it is.  The more clouds you have in the night time, the warmer it is.

Between belching and farting that's how cows tell jokes, in Stereo.

Then ... I close my bathroom window.

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34 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Between belching and farting that's how cows tell jokes, in Stereo.

It is not just cows. Educators as well. I mean, can you look at that headline without thinking of some old guy ripping one?

C001880C-48AF-4538-B092-73BF221FD71F.jpeg

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10 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The most methane produced on Earth is by Volcanoes

Volcanoes produce very little methane. Perhaps you meant carbon dioxide. But this is junk science that makes the claim that Volcanoes produce more carbon dioxide than people.

Evidence suggests that humans and human activities produce about 60 to 90 times more carbon dioxide than all the world's volcanoes:

    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!

[cached version since SA is currently offline from my location.]

SA goes for 100 times:

According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide. Despite the arguments to the contrary, the facts speak for themselves: Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by today’s human endeavors.

And of course, there is also the fact that the particulates in especially large volcanic eruptions can actually promote temporary global cooling:

Furthermore, some scientists believe that spectacular volcanic eruptions, like that of Mt. St. Helens in 1980 and Mt. Pinatubo in 1991, actually lead to short-term global cooling, not warming, as sulfur dioxide (SO2), ash and other particles in the air and stratosphere reflect some solar energy instead of letting it into Earth’s atmosphere. SO2, which converts to sulfuric acid aerosol when it hits the stratosphere, can linger there for as long as seven years and can exercise a cooling effect long after a volcanic eruption has taken place.

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11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The more clouds you have in the daytime the cooler it is.  The more clouds you have in the night time, the warmer it is.

Therefore, water vapor is not a very effective greenhouse gas after all. Methane and CO2, however, are proven greenhouse gases through experimentation, working predictive modeling, working historical modeling, and current experience.

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Recycling and environmental protection consumes a LOT of my thoughts ...

Every time I go to an auto parts store, and see a spray can of WD-40, I think of all the dashed hopes and dreams of the Dinosaurs.

The true test of an environmentalists is this:

If he could make it happen, would he bring back the dinosaurs ... and would it be covered by his automobile insurance policy.

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      “It makes you feel really ill,” . “How frustrating is it that people who find a solemn place of worship, and now it’s being destroyed?”
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    • Guest Indiana
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      Una Riley, 67, of Akron, passed away on March 20, 2019. Una was a member of Akron Central Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. She retired from FirstMerit Bank after 15 years of service.

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      The family would like to thank everyone who supported them during this time of sorrow. A special thank you to the Cleveland Clinic Hospice, and Una's caretaker, Tammy, and special friends, Charlotte Holling and Alesia Stevens.

      A memorial service for Una will take place on Sunday March 31, 2019 at 2pm at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses at 1170 Eastwood Ave, Akron, OH 44305.

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    • Guest Indiana
      By Guest Indiana
      EATONVILLE, WA - Pierce County firefighters battled a 15-acre brush fire near Eatonville on Wednesday night, one of dozens of fires that have broken out across Western Washington amid record-breaking March heat.
      Wednesday's fire near Eatonville burned near the intersection of SR 702 and Jackson Road, which is just west of SR 7 near the Jehovah's Witnesses temple.
      "Firefighters urge residents on Jackson Road to evacuate as this fire continues to grow," the Pierce County Firefighters union wrote on Twitter.
      Washington State Patrol officers were heading to the scene to assist with traffic control.
      On top warm temperatures, strong breezes have blown steadily since Monday, feeding and spreading fires.

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    • Guest Indiana
      By Guest Indiana
      Name: Yuriy Belosludtsev
      Born: [to be determined]
      Current status: [to be determined]
      Detained since: 18 March 2019 
      Current restrictions: pre-trial detention
      Currently held in: [to be determined

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    • Guest Indiana
      By Guest Indiana
      Despite recent surgery, retired widower, Jehovah's Witness Shamil Khakimov, is in pre-trial detention in Khujand under criminal investigation for "inciting religious hatred". If tried and convicted he faces five to ten years' imprisonment. His arrest followed widespread raids, interrogations and torture of local Jehovah's Witnesses.
      On 28 February, two days after his arrest, a court in the northern city of Khujand ordered that 68-year old Jehovah's Witness Shamil Khakimov be held in pre-trial detention for up to two months. Prosecutors are preparing a criminal case against him on charges of "inciting religious hatred", charges he rejects. Khakimov, who suffers from high blood pressure and recently underwent a leg operation, faces between five and ten years' imprisonment if eventually tried and convicted.
      Khakimov is currently held at Khujand's Investigation Prison.

      Khujand Investigation Prison
      Google/DigitalGlobe
      Judge Abruniso Mirasilzoda, who acceded to the Prosecutor's Office request to put Khakimov in pre-trial detention despite his medical condition, refused to explain her decision to Forum 18 (see below).
      A panel of three judges at Sogd Regional Court upheld Khakimov's pre-trial detention on 12 March. None of the judges were prepared to discuss with Forum 18 why they approved the detention of the 68-year-old, given his serious state of health (see below).
      Forum 18 was unable to reach Nosirkhuja Dodokhonzoda, Investigator of serious crimes at Sogd Regional Prosecutor's Office, who is leading the criminal case against Khakimov (see below).
      Police opened the case against Khakimov after widespread raids in January and February on homes and police interrogations of Jehovah's Witnesses across the northern Sogd Region. Some of the interrogations involved torture.
      Organised Crime Police seized Khakimov's Bible and other religious literature during a raid on his home after they interrogated him (see below).
      After the raids and interrogations, so far none of the Jehovah's Witnesses were given any punishments or faced any charges except for Khakimov. "The authorities probably want to punish a Jehovah's Witness more seriously in order for this to be a show case, a lesson for the rest of the Jehovah's Witnesses," Jehovah's Witnesses told Forum 18 on 19 March. "This may be why Khakimov was singled out."
      Jehovah's Witnesses in Khujand are still being regularly summoned and questioned by the Organised Crime Police, Jehovah's Witnesses complained to Forum 18. The Police summon individuals for interrogation "without written notifications".
      Organised Crime Police prepare Khakimov's arrest
      Trouble began for Jehovah's Witness Shamil Rasulovich Khakimov (born 30 August 1950), a retired widower, after police stopped two Jehovah's Witnesses on the street in Khujand in early January for sharing their beliefs with a passer-by.
      "The Police seized the phones of the two women and called the numbers in the phone, and this is how they found Khakimov," Jehovah's Witnesses told Forum 18. "The authorities allege that he is the leader of Jehovah's Witnesses in Khujand."
      On the evening of 28 January, Khakimov received a call from an unknown person. "The caller requested him to leave his flat and come out onto the street. It was dark so he hesitated, but the calls kept coming," Jehovah's Witnesses said. "When he decided to come outside, there was no one on the street."
      Later the caller identified himself as Nekruz Ibrokhimzoda from the Organised Crime Police of Sogd Region.
      The next day, 29 January, Organised Crime Police officers summoned some of Khakimov's friends (who are not Jehovah's Witnesses) and fellow believers, and questioned them about him.
      At lunch time on 1 February, three days after this, the Organised Crime Police's Khujand office summoned Khakimov, where officers searched him on arrival. Lieutenant Colonel Sukhrob Rustamzoda then interrogated him, including about his personal history, how he became a Jehovah's Witness, and the structure of the organisation.
      "During the interrogation, officers refused to allow Khakimov to use the services of a defence lawyer," Jehovah's Witnesses complained.
      Investigator Rustamzoda refused to comment on the case. "I cannot discuss it with you over the phone," he told Forum 18 on 19 March. "You need to talk to Sogd Regional Prosecutor's Office. They are investigating the case now." When Forum 18 insisted, asking why Police opened a case against Khakimov and why he was refused a defence lawyer to participate during his interrogation, Rustamzoda put the phone down.
      Officers seize Khakimov's property
      After the interrogation, the Organised Crime Police brought Khakimov to his flat in Khujand. Officers seized his tablet device, laptop computer, his Bible and several religious books and brochures, as well as his passport. Officers did not give him a copy of the seizure record, Jehovah's Witnesses said.
      The Police "detained him overall for eight hours the same day," Jehovah's Witnesses complained to Forum 18. "He had not fully recovered after the thrombophlebitis surgery on his legs and his bandages needed to be changed."
      Moreover, Khakimov "could not receive money transfers to continue his necessary medical treatment, since officers seized his passport".
      Prosecutor's Office ignores complaints, opens case
      On 3 February, Khakimov filed a complaint with the Regional Prosecutor's Office against the actions of the Organised Crime Police officers. "No answer has been received to this day," Jehovah's Witnesses complained to Forum 18.
      "Instead at around 9 am on 7 February, four days after his complaint, the Organised Crime Police officers once again arrived at Khakimov's home. They threatened him to open the door," Jehovah's Witnesses told Forum 18. "As the Police officers refused to provide the official summons, he decided not to open the door." 
      During the same day, the Police "repeatedly called Khakimov demanding him to come to the police station."
      Khakimov filed another complaint to the Regional Prosecutor's Office on 7 February against the actions of the Organised Crime Police. "At the Prosecutor's Office he was asked to write an additional statement on his faith and religious activity." The Prosecutor's Office, however, "refused to give him a note that he was asked to write a statement and that it had received his complaint."
      The Prosecutor's Office has "not responded to this complaint to this day either".
      Arrest, pre-trial detention
      On 26 February, 19 days after his second complaint, Police arrested Khakimov and put him in custody "despite his advanced age and poor health".
      The following day, on 27 February, the Organised Crime Police went to Khakimov's flat again. "Without showing identification documents - in the absence of Khakimov and the presence of his roommate - seized Khakimov's international passport without drawing up a record of it," Jehovah's Witnesses said.
      On 28 February, at the request of the Sogd Regional Prosecutor's Office, Judge Abruniso Mirasilzoda of Khujand City Court ordered that Khakimov be held in pre-trial detention. He is being held in the Investigation Prison in Khujand.
      Judge Mirasilzoda told Forum 18 from the court on 19 March that "his custody may last up two months while the investigation proceeds, and if need be his arrest can be prolonged." She refused to explain why Khakimov needs to be held in custody. Asked why he cannot be at home while his case is being investigated, she told Forum 18: "I gave my decision, and it entered into force."
      Asked why she did not take into account that Khakimov is an old man who recently underwent an operation on his leg, Judge Mirasilzoda replied: "His lawyer informed us about this orally, but did not present documents." Asked whether had Khakimov had the documents, she would not have ordered the pre-trial detention, she responded: "I do not want to discuss my decision further."
      Jehovah's Witnesses say the court was fully aware of Khakimov's medical condition. "On 28 February our lawyer did not yet have the documents from the doctors on Khakimov's operation, so they told Judge Mirasilzoda that Khakimov can open the bandage on his leg and show the wound, as well as producing the documents later. But she went ahead with her decision."
      Khakimov's address in Investigation Prison:
      Ya/S 9/2 Investigation Prison
      Khujand
      Sogd Region
      Tajikistan
      Why pre-trial detention?
      Jehovah's Witnesses appealed against the 28 February decision to place Khakimov in pre-trial detention. They presented in court documentation on his operation and health condition. But on 12 March, a panel of three judges at Sogd Regional Court, Ismoil Rakhmatzoda, Maftuna Rakhmatillozoda and Khotamsho Sattorzoda, upheld Khakimov's pre-trial detention.
      Asked on 20 March why the Court upheld the pre-trial detention of Khakimov, an ailing old man, Makhrambek Jumazoda, Secretary of Judge Rakhmatzoda, took down the question and Forum 18's name. Then, after consulting with an official in Judge Rakhmatzoda's office, claimed to Forum 18 that the Judge is "busy in a meeting". He then refused to talk further.
      Judge Rakhmatillozoda on 20 March also refused to explain their decision. Asked why the Court did not take into account the official records of Khakimov's condition and upheld his pre-trial detention, she responded: "I just came into my office. Can you call back in 15 minutes?" Called back later, she told Forum 18 "I cannot talk to you," and put the phone down.
      Judge Sattorzoda was adamant that the Court "correctly took the decision to put Khakimov in custody". Reminded that Khakimov presented to the Court the documents confirming his medical condition and that he is an old man, Sattorzoda repeated his previous response: "We took the decision correctly." He refused to explain the decision to Forum 18 and to answer further questions.
      Inciting hatred?
      Nosirkhuja Dodokhonzoda, Investigator of serious crimes at Sogd Regional Prosecutor's Office, is leading the case against Khakimov. On 7 March, one week after Khakimov's arrest, Dodokhonzoda officially informed him of the charges against him.
      Dodokhonzoda is investigating Khakimov under Criminal Code Article 189, Part 2 ("Inciting national, racial, local or religious hatred or dissension, humiliation of national dignity, as well as propaganda of the superiority of citizens based on their religion, national, racial, or local origin, if committed in public or using the mass media" when performed repeatedly, by a group or by an individual using their official position). Punishment is imprisonment of between five and ten years, with the possibility also of a five-year ban on specified activity.
      Prisoner of conscience Pastor Bakhrom Kholmatov, who led a Protestant Church in Khujand, was punished under Criminal Code Article 189, Part 1 for allegedly "singing extremist songs in church and so inciting 'religious hatred'". Khujand City Court sentenced him to three years' imprisonment in July 2017.
      Asked why the Prosecutor's Office asked for Khakimov's pre-trial detention, and why it did not respond to Khakimov complaints on the Police illegal actions, the official (who did not give his name) who on 19 March answered the phone of Khobibullo Vokhidov, Prosecutor of Sogd Region, took down Forum 18's name and asked it to wait on the line. Moments later, he told Forum 18 that "Prosecutor Vokhidov is busy; call back in an hour or so."
      Called back later, the Prosecutor's phone numbers were all switched to a fax machine.
      Prosecutor's Office Investigator Dodokhonzoda did not answer his phones on 20 March.
      Health concerns
      Jehovah's Witnesses express concern over Khakimov's health. "He recently had an operation on the veins in his legs and suffers from high blood pressure," they told Forum 18 on 19 March. "At the moment he is still suffering from high blood pressure, and the doctors have told him not to stand for too long because of the operation."
      Jehovah's Witnesses added that although Khakimov is "doing well", he still feels pain in his leg after the surgery. "Our lawyer talked to the prison doctor and he said that he will make sure that Shamil Khakimov would not have to stand up every time officers enter the cell for checking."
      Earlier raids, interrogations
      The Organised Crime Police Department of Sogd Region interrogated about 17 Jehovah's Witnesses for periods of up to 14 hours in January and February across the northern Sogd Region, including in Khujand and Konibodom. Police also confiscated mobile phones, personal computers or tablets, and internal passports from those they interrogated.
      One female Jehovah's Witness was interrogated two days running for 14 hours. Because of the extreme stress imposed on her, she suffered a stroke, leaving her unable to walk or speak. She was then taken to hospital.
      Jehovah's Witnesses lodged a formal complaint about the police actions and torture to Sogd Regional Prosecutor's Office. "But it has taken no action and given no response to this day," Jehovah's Witnesses complained to Forum 18.
      "After the female Witness complained to President Emomali Rahmon, the General Prosecutor's Office informed her in early February in writing that it is investigating the complaint," Jehovah's Witnesses told Forum 18. "However, she has not been informed on the course or the results of the investigation to this day."
      Asked on 20 March about the investigation of this case and Khakimov's case, officials at the General Prosecutor's Office reception (who did not give their names) referred Forum 18 to its international relations section's Makhmudzoda and Karimzoda (first names were not given). The officials' phones went unanswered the same day. Called back, the reception officials refused to put Forum 18 through to any other officials to discuss the cases. (END)

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    • Guest Indiana
      By Guest Indiana
      An EU citizen has been placed in solitary confinement, denied visitation with his wife and subjected to a grueling daily regimen while awaiting trial in central Russia, the Jehovah’s Witnesses told The Moscow Times.
      The federal penitentiary service of Kirov region did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
      Andrzej Oniszczuk, 50, was one of several adherents of the religious group detained in the Volga region of Kirov on extremism charges in October 2018. Russia labeled the Jehovah’s Witnesses an extremist organization in 2017, leading to raids nationwide and the sentencing of a Danish national last month.
      “Andrzej has been kept in solitary confinement for over five months,” Jehovah’s Witnesses spokesman Jarrod Lopes said in an emailed statement.
      Prison authorities prohibit Oniszczuk from lying down for 15 hours during the day, withhold the Bible and allow showers only once a week, the spokesman said. Oniszczuk’s wife has been denied several requests to visit him, Lopes told The Moscow Times.
      He said Polish diplomats were “finally” allowed to visit and assist the EU citizen despite Oniszczuk’s initial signature “under duress” to refuse visits from embassy staff.
      The organization said a total of 24 Jehovah’s Witnesses are currently held in pretrial detention in Russia, where 150 believers are under investigation on extremism charges.
      Lopes said in February that investigators in Siberia had stripped, suffocated, doused with water and applied stun guns on at least seven believers detained on extremism charges. Russia's Investigative Committee has denied the claims.

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    • Guest Indiana
      By Guest Indiana
      Were you or a loved one sexually abused by Gonzalo Campos, an elder with various Jehovah’s Witnesses congregations in the San Diego area?
      Legal Support For Alleged Victims Of Gonzalo Campos
      After admitting to molesting at least 8 children during the 1980s and 1990s, Campos fled to Mexico, evading criminal justice here in California, but some sexual abuse survivors may still be eligible to file suit against the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York.
       
      The Watchtower, the national organization for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, has already settled at least two lawsuits involving Campos’ misconduct. In March 2018, the organization came to terms with two of Campos’ victims, men who claimed the elder abused them decades ago. Neither the Watchtower nor the plaintiffs are allowed to disclose details of the settlement.
      Experienced Attorneys Launch Full Investigation
      Our compassionate sexual abuse attorneys believe that other victims of Campos may still be able to pursue justice, accountability and compensation by filing a civil lawsuit. We have opened a full investigation into the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to understand how Campos was allowed to remain around children, even after serious sexual abuse allegations had been filed against him.
      We understand the powerful storm of emotions that sexual abuse can cause. You may still be struggling to deal with painful feelings of embarrassment and shame, rage or depression. You do not have to go through this alone. Our committed legal team is here to help.
      You may have powerful legal options. The prospect of stepping forward to report the abuse may seem terrifying, but it can be a powerful step on the road to recovery. You deserve justice. You may also be entitled to financial compensation. Filing a civil lawsuit can help you take control of this terrible situation. The Watchtower should be held accountable.
      Watchtower Hit By Court Penalty For Withholding Evidence
      The Watchtower has already been accused of hindering investigations into allegations of child sexual abuse. In the cases involving Gonzalo Campos, the Watchtower was ordered to pay a penalty of $4,000 every day because it refused to turn over internal documents containing information about church leaders who had been accused of child sexual abuse.
      This was not the first time the Watchtower failed to stand up for sexual abuse survivors.
      Critics say Gonzalo Campos was allowed to abuse at least 8 children in San Diego between 1982 and 1995, even though the Jehovah’s Witnesses congregations he belonged to were aware of his misconduct. After abusing a 7-year-old in 1994, Campos was removed from the Church, but he was reinstated by church elders who claimed he was a changed man.
      In their lawsuits, two men who said they had been abused by Campos accused church elders of knowing about Campos’ misconduct as early as 1982, but covering it up and allowing him to continue working with young children. We believe the victims.
       

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    • Guest Indiana
      By Guest Indiana
      Serena Williams’s daughter Alexis Olympia turns 1 this week – but we shouldn’t expect any extravagant party pictures on the ‘gram.
      The tennis legend has confirmed that she will not be celebrating her baby girl’s first birthday, due to her beliefs as a Jehovah’s Witness.
      Serena was speaking at a press conference at the when she was asked whether she has thought about she’d be celebrating Olympia’s first birthday.
      Responding to a reporter asking: ‘Is there a birthday party planned?’, the 36-year-old said: ‘Olympia doesn’t celebrate birthdays. We’re Jehovah’s Witnesses, so we don’t do that.’
      It is believed Serena’s husband, Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian, is now practicing with his wife, despite not growing up in a religious household.
      Advertisement Advertisement
      Speaking to Vogue last year, Serena said: ‘Being a Jehovah’s Witness is important to me, but I’ve never really practiced it and have been wanting to get into it.
      ‘Alexis didn’t grow up going to any church, but he’s really receptive and even takes the lead. He puts my needs first.’
      Jehovah’s Witnesses believe God is the Creator and Supreme Being, and reject the Trinity doctrine.
      They do not celebrate religious holidays like Christmas and Easter, and do not observe birthdays or national holidays, feeling that many of these customs have pagan origins and do not celebrate God.

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    • Guest Indiana
      By Guest Indiana
      Based on official documentation dated March 1, 2019, the Russian federation has seized the Jehovah’s Witness administrative center campus worth $30.4 million US dollars. The property has been transferred to the Federal State-funded institution Almazov National Medical Research of the Ministry of Healthcare of the Russian Federation. According to a representative from JW, “the Russian government has schemed to effectively steal this property from our U.S. corp, claiming the U.S. corp’s ownership was invalid and that the property was really owned by JWs in Russia.”

      Read more at World Religion News: "Russia Confiscates $30.4 Million Property From Jehovah’s Witnesses" https://www.worldreligionnews.com/?p=59873
       

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