ANTHONY MORRIS AT THE LIQUOR STORE

[Witness]

28 minutes ago, Anna said:

Coming back to this video. I had time to watch it again and noticed that the cart that we see in the store has a lot more in it than what Br. Morris is seen putting into his car. The box he puts in his car could hold a max 6 bottles. The cart in the store has at least 13 bottles from what I could see. Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps that wasn't even his cart?

"I see you're a fan of scotch, do you know anything about Irish whiskey?", says the man videotaping Mr. Morris.  Why would he say that if he hadn't seen what was in his cart, since Mr. Morris wasn't holding a bottle in his hand?  And if that wasn't his cart, where was it, in the wine aisle?

In his email sent to Lloyd, he described how he removed the bottles from the boxes at the checkout.  "My impression was that he had done this many times before.  He removed the bottles from their boxes before going to the register, a security protocol at this store.  Also, he had them throw away the individual boxes, which to me shows he wasn't purchasing them as gifts".  

[Witness]

23 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Frustrating job you have there

Frustrating at times, but more despairing than frustrating.  You do know what "sackcloth" is, don't you?  Rev 11:1-3  

[Witness]

 

On 4/2/2019 at 9:13 AM, JW Insider said:

Drinking stories were always rampant at Bethel. There were always stories of higher-ups getting drunk, but this was likely fueled by younger Bethelites who were looking for excuses for their own behavior.

 

On 4/2/2019 at 9:13 AM, JW Insider said:

I was sometimes surprised that people were periodically sent home for stealing and immorality, but never (that I knew of) for excessive drinking.

Somehow these two quotes must have a connection.

 

 

 

[JW Insider]

48 minutes ago, Witness said:

Somehow these two quotes must have a connection.

Nothing specific enough to be of interest to anyone looking for gossip. I think most people know that young Bethelites got in all sorts of trouble. For a few months under Knorr, there seemed to be someone sent home for 'conduct unbecoming a Bethelite' every week, sometimes two or three on the same day, and sometimes more than once in the same week. But this was when Knorr was handling the "morning worship" every day in 1976 and a bit of 1977. After Knorr was too sick, the daily text "morning worship" rotated and I never remember anyone else announcing dismissals, except maybe Milton Henschel when he wanted to make a point about the specific type of misconduct. Knorr was always very specific and it became counsel for the rest of the family, even if it took the form of a long rant that could even make you late for work.

So what I meant was that I never remember Knorr berating anyone for drunkenness or dismissing anyone for it. The dismissals that came afterward were not announced to the whole family so I have no idea what most of them were for, unless there was a clear rumor to go with it.

Back in those years almost everyone could still drink at age 19, and there were only a few 18 year olds on construction and painting crews mostly. It wasn't until 1984 that all states went to 21. But there was a time when it was easier to buy liquor in NJ (and they moved the age down from 19 to 18 in 1980). Some Bethelites would take trips from NY to NJ to stock up and then bring it back to share (or resell) to others.

Drinking was much more common than I expected, but I am not trying to give the impression that there was rampant drunkenness. It's just that you could tell that some young brothers were away from their families for the first time, had a measure of independence and privacy at Bethel, and there were several obvious mistakes made. The parties in some rooms made worldly neighbors complain from a couple of the buildings nestled in between apartments that the Society did not own. I knew a Bethelite who got in trouble for this, but he was not sent home.

The rumor about "higher-ups" is not directly related, but it was related to the "gifts" of prime cut steaks that were sent periodically from Watchtower Farms to Brooklyn. These were never served to the Bethel family, but I knew one of the cooks who was sworn to secrecy about who got them and how often. There are always perks in any organization for those at a certain level of responsibility, and this was not a "Governing Body" thing. It was more of a long time seniority thing, which will necessarily (sometimes) overlap. Since these steaks were served semi-privately as specially cooked meals, they could be served with alcohol, but some brothers were said to have already served themselves alcohol before coming down to get their meal. Certain brothers became known for this behavior, even to the point of using very foul language to the cooks and waiters. If you want to keep a secret the last thing you want to do is curse out a cook or a waiter.

Anyway, the basic idea, which I could not say because I don't know, was that Knorr knew that some high-seniority people had been known to misbehave in this area, and it might have produced some leniency when younger ones had this trouble.

[Anna]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

"I see you're a fan of scotch, do you know anything about Irish whiskey?", says the man videotaping Mr. Morris.  Why would he say that if he hadn't seen what was in his cart, since Mr. Morris wasn't holding a bottle in his hand? 

Because the man was assuming that was Morris's cart,  and Morris responding is no proof it was his cart, after all he was in the whiskey isle and looking at the whiskey. His cart could have been anywhere.

4 hours ago, Witness said:

He removed the bottles from their boxes before going to the register, a security protocol at this store.  Also, he had them throw away the individual boxes, which to me shows he wasn't purchasing them as gifts

Like I said, he only had one box that he was putting into the car. One box that holds a max 6 bottles. Where did all the other whiskey bottles go that were in the said cart? Even at the checkout, where Morris is seen getting his card/money out to pay, there are only up to 6 bottles on the counter, and his cart is empty.

[Anna]

There are 4 red boxes in the cart, assuming those are Macallan then one of those bottles costs anywhere from $1,700 to $1,900 USD

[TrueTomHarley]

Is it my Imagination or does the reflection from the 5th from Blue Label upper bottle show Witness dead drunk passed out on the floor?

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Anna said:

Because the man was assuming that was Morris's cart,  and Morris responding is no proof it was his cart, after all he was in the whiskey isle and looking at the whiskey. His cart could have been anywhere.

Then there were two buyers  in the store with carts of MaCallan whiskey at the same time.  The cart near Tony Morris lost its original owner.  Tony Morris wandered away from his cart left in another aisle.  I suppose anything is possible. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Anna said:

Like I said, he only had one box that he was putting into the car. One box that holds a max 6 bottles. Where did all the other whiskey bottles go that were in the said cart? Even at the checkout, where Morris is seen getting his card/money out to pay, there are only up to 6 bottles on the counter, and his cart is empty.

I think the best way to settle it, is for you to make a comment under Lloyd's video and ask him to email the man who filmed Mr. Morris, with the questions you are asking.   

[Witness]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Is it my Imagination or does the reflection from the 5th from Blue Label upper bottle show Witness dead drunk passed out on the floor?

Since there are no quotation marks around the word Witness, and my attention wasn't drawn to your comment with "@Witness", which JW are you referring to?  

[TrueTomHarley]

9 hours ago, Witness said:

Since there are no quotation marks around the word Witness, and my attention wasn't drawn to your comment with "@Witness", which JW are you referring to?  

I was worried that if I said @Witness specifically, @The Librarian (that old hen) might yell at me. I’m scared of her.

[TrueTomHarley]

9 hours ago, Witness said:

I think the best way to settle it, is for you to make a comment under Lloyd's video and ask him to email the man who filmed Mr. Morris, with the questions you are asking.   

Better still, invite him to your home for supper.

[JOHN BUTLER]

Quote @JW Insider Drinking stories were always rampant at Bethel. There were always stories of higher-ups getting drunk, but this was likely fueled by younger Bethelites who were looking for excuses for their own behavior. The cooks who worked an after-dinner late shift only available to "higher ups" had the most consistent stories, but I still saw signs of exaggeration. But I have seen young Bethelites get drunk, and it was shameful and embarrassing. (For some 19 and 20 year olds, Bethel would have been their first real experience with alcohol.) I have seen housekeepers gathering liquor bottles from rooms and the sum total would have surprised anyone. I was sometimes surprised that people were periodically sent home for stealing and immorality, but never (that I knew of) for excessive drinking.

I don't even have to go looking for faults in the Org. People seem quite happy to reveal the faults on here.. It's kinda funny then that some folks say i have an agenda.    Drunks in Bethal, shows the lack of spiritual wisdom doesn't it ?  Where is God's 'guidance there ? 

As for the GB pretending to be 'poor', i bet they have country mansions for summer holidays