A CIRCUIT OVERSEER STATES, "YOUR FAITH IS GARBAGE AND NEEDS TO BE TORN DOWN"

[Witness]

2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Why didn’t you explain it to Srecko? I want you to say it since you’re conflicted as to who comprises the body of Christ. You seem to have a different understanding between, faithful servants, anointed, and the royal priesthood.

How do you define these members when they can be included? Therefore, I asked the question first.

Give me a scriptural citation where you think, all who go before God to profess their loyalty and faith by adhering to God by Christ, have no part in the body of Christ.

Don’t evade the question. You are the expert according to yourself, now answer it.

Romans 12:5, 1 Corinthians 12:12–27, Ephesians 3:6 and 5:23, Colossians 1:18 and Colossians 1:24

We agree on one point. Christ is the head. Now are the anointed (Members) not a part? Did the Apostles spring up all of a sudden like the devil's horns?

Of course, I’m referring to their role on earth, before they descend. Why include it in scripture if it isn’t so. Say it Joseph Smith. You seem to have walked in the desert with Christ. When did he make a change in scripture to accommodate your interpretation?

Cool your jets a bit.

John 2:19-22 -  Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

²⁰ They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” ²¹ But the temple he had spoken of was his body. ²² After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

The Body of Christ = the temple

Matt 16:18 - And I tell you that you are Peter ( for rock), and on this rock ("large rock", "a mass of stones") I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Church:  ἐκκλησία ekklēsía, ek-klay-see'-ah; from a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both):—assembly, church.

Would he build his “church” from those who were not ‘called out’, as the apostles were?  Jesus laid the foundation as the chief cornerstone of the new Temple/Body.  The foundation stones were the apostles and prophets. 

All who were called out are considered “stones”/”rock”. 

Rom 1:1 - Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God—

Rom 1:7 - To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 4:4 - There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling

Rev 17:14 - They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

This is the “144,000” priests/kings of God. The anointed ones.

1 Pet 2:5,9 - you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ("I will build my church")

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

The “spiritual house” built of stones is the Temple of God. It is the church/Body.

You, are adding those to the “church” who are not “living stones” of the Body of Christ.

It is clear in scripture that the anointed are this “church” – “spiritual house” – TEMPLE of God.

2 Cor 6:16 - What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Again, the temple is built of “stones”, and the stones are the royal priesthood, which comprise the Body of Christ.

1 Cor 6:19-20 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? ²⁰ For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your bodyand in your spirit, which are God’s.

The royal priesthood is God’s “spiritual house”, His dwelling place. ("I will walk among them")

1 Cor 3:16,17 - Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? ¹⁷ If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

Eph 2:19-22 - Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, ²⁰ having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, ²¹ in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, ²² in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. ("I will build my church")

The “saints” are built on Christ’s Body, creating a Temple of “living stones”. 

The purpose?  To serve the rest of the children in God’s Kingdom.  So, step back and take a look at what God is building.  He is refining and forming a people for Himself to serve the greater needs of His children to come.  They must prove themselves worthy enough to be be found faithful and able to serve as God's priests; who, in the early temple arrangement, always served and taught the people of Israel.  Mal 2:7  Yes, they will be Christ’s “kings” – righteous kings, who direct and teach God’s children in love, just as their High Priest/King/Head of the Body.  

Romans 12 describes the anointed as individual members of Christ’s Body.    

As does 1 Cor 12:

For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. ¹³ For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. ¹⁴ For in fact the body is not one member but many. 1 Cor 12:12,13

What did Jesus say his Body was? 

John 2:21 - But the temple he had spoken of was his body

It is the Temple of “living stones” – the royal priesthood.

“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.  Isa 43:10

 

 

 

 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Witness The scriptures you have quoted convince me even more that the Greek scriptures were written to and for the Anointed only. It is my opinion that only the Anointed can fully understand God's written word. 

As for Billy the child, no hope remains it seems  

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Some people will always live in a fantasy construct, made of words. 

When I was a small boy for me it was Superman Comics, and TV show.  I would wear a towel as a cape, fastened with a clothes pin, and look for things to jump off of,

One time I jumped off a back yard furnace oil tank, into a pile of broken cola bottles, barefooted.

My Uncle tightly rolled me up in a blanket to extract the glass from my bloodied, lacerated feet.

I hope that Billy's continuous leaping to agenda driven conclusions will not be as bloodied, or as painful, as my experience.

[JOHN BUTLER]

OH Billy  you child, you are so far away from truth that you are not really worth replying to but for the entertainment value lets see.

The Anointed are the body of Christ, but only the Anointed not others. 

As for your "what part of your attitude against the GB makes you a Christian in your distorted mind." 

Um, Jesus' attitude to the Pharisees. And Jesus' attitude to any false teachings. Plus Jesus' attitude to the way the temple was being misused. And Jesus' attitude to how the people were being mistreated by those 'in charge' putting 'heavy loads' on the shoulders of others. 

It does not take much deep thinking Billy, to see how Jesus hated lies, deceit, mistreatment of people, traditions of men, and the pretence of serving God whilst really being dishonest. It's all recorded many times in the Bible, if only you would read it and get to know it. 

And that is exactly how the GB / JW Org / Watchtower are, just like those Pharisees. The GB seem to think it is ok to tell lies as they call it 'spiritual warfare' by misquoting scripture. 

Never mind Billy child, you will learn the truth one day, keep trying. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

John:

I would just like to remind you that until Jehovah God "overthrew" and replaced the old Jewish System, Jesus HIMSELF commended the unnamed widow for supporting the corrupt system that they all had to endure.

Jehovah had his Son fully submissive to the "old system" of governance ... and until Jehovah overthrows the CURRENT system (and there is nobody on Earth that can disfellowship the Governing Body) ... Jehovah's Witnesses are "The Only Game In Town".

Jehovah set the example of doing what he could... with what he had to work with.

 

 

[Witness]

17 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Just as I thought. Can't give a rational answer, that you have to resort to more garbage. The day, you what to answer scriptural definitions without resorting to nonsense, I'll be glad to listen.  Meanwhile, you can't make a logical defense for hating the GB as you do. Which by the way is breaking Christ instructions and the new covenant.

 

 

Coming from a man who constantly tells everyone, “learn scripture”.  I provided scripture and you reject it. 

 

4 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

How does that prevent them from being part of the body?

Who are you talking about?  The anointed or those not anointed?  I spoke of the anointed ones.

17 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

As cited earlier " So, I don’t need you to cite other text. Stick to understanding one text at a time. What is your understanding of 1 Corinthians."

1 Cor 12:12-27 (if that is what you mean, but do read the entire chapter)  speaks of the “gifts of the spirit”.  Are you having a hard time accepting the fact that these various gifts were given exclusively to the anointed?

Satan also is very aware of who comprise the Body of Christ.  Let me show you what I mean. Here is truth:

WT 63/9/1 pp. 537-538  “Temple” is also used in a symbolic sense to include Jesus Christ and his body members, or the 144,001, as Jehovah’s arrangement for the carrying on of true worship, a sanctuary for God to inhabit by spirit. This can be clearly seen from reading Ephesians 2:20-22. Since this symbolic temple was represented by the anointed Christians on earth in his day, Paul could also use this name as applying in a representative way when he wrote to the congregation at Corinth: “Do you not know that the body of you people is the temple of the holy spirit?” (1 Cor. 6:19) And at Revelation 21:22 “temple” has yet another significance when Jehovah God and the Lamb Jesus Christ are said to be the temple ofthe New Jerusalem.”

Most of the Scriptural terms that apply to the 144,000 members of Christ’s body apart from their Head do so quite obviously. Among such are “Christ’s body,” “the body of the Christ,” “the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” And since the “Lamb’s wife” is also termed “the holy city, New Jerusalem,” it follows that this name also applies only to the 144,000 body members. This is borne out by the description of it in Revelation chapter 21.—1 Cor. 12:27; Eph. 4:12; Rev. 21:2, 9, 10.

Look at 1 Cor 12:27 which is a scripture you also listed:

1 Cor 12:27-31: Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. ²⁸ And God has appointed these in the church (body): first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. ²⁹ Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? ³⁰ Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? ³¹ But earnestly desire the ^[i]best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

These gifts are also spoken of in Eph 4:7-13

 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. ⁸ Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”

⁹ (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? ¹⁰ He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

¹¹ And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, ¹² for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, ¹³ till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ

The Body of the anointed ones, with Jesus as their Head, has received gifts from the Holy Spirit. Here, Watchtower also tells truth:

From “Mans Salvation Out of World Distress at Hand”:

These “gifts in men” were among the captives that he led away as a result of his giving his human soul as a ransom for the condemned world of mankind. (Matthew 20:28; 1 Timothy 2:5, 6) Such “gifts in men,” the resurrected, ascended Jesus Christ bestows upon his congregation of 144,000 anointed joint heirs, to strengthen them all to fight a triumphant warfare against this world and its god and thereby to share with Jesus in vindicating the universal sovereignty of Jehovah God. To them he says, in Revelation 3:21: “To the one that conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, even as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.” 

As you can see, these earlier publications explain that the Body of Christ are the “144,000”, and  explains that the many gifts through Holy Spirit, were given to them.

However, Satan also has the determined ability to morph truth into a lie, with a purpose in mind.

 ^"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. ¹⁴ For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings (Christs’s kings, Rev 1:5) of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."  Rev 16:13,14

Developing, “unclean” expressions, that begin as truth, turn into plaguing lies - as a plague of frogs.  (Exod 😎

 The “gifts to/unto/in men” are now said to be given to the elders – non anointed elders.

   w02 3/15 p. 15    How can we show regard for the appointed elders in the congregation?

¹⁰ Our Leader has given the congregations “gifts in men”—“some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers.” (Ephesians 4:8, 11, 12) Our attitude and actions toward them speak volumes as to whether we accept Christ’s leadership. It is only right that we ‘show ourselves thankful’ for the spiritually qualified men that Christ has given. (Colossians 3:15) They also deserve our respect.”

Did Jesus or the Father change their mind about who receive the “gifts” bestowed by Holy Spirit? Wouldn’t you consider this, blasphemy against God, Jesus, and the Temple?  Why does the organization say truth from scripture, and then twist it into a lie?  It is to eventually remove all knowledge of who comprise the Temple, the Body of Christ, and the priesthood from the minds of JWs.   

The Beast/organization of Revelation 13, accomplishes this:

“Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. ⁷ It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.”  Rev 13:6,7

How are the anointed saints overcome?  Well, who has the authority to disfellowship the anointed ones?  The elders.  Who "represents the royal priesthood"?  The elders.  To whom are everyone in the organization told to "honor" and obey?  The elders.     With demonic expressions that begin with acknowledging who the anointed really are, they end with the removing of all evidence…of who they really are - as the anointed Body of Christ.  

 “And I heard the man who was clothed in linen who was above the water of the stream, and he raised his right hand and his left hand to heaven and he swore by the one who lives forever that an appointed time, appointed times, and half an appointed time would pass when the shattering of the power of the holy people would be completed; then all these things will be accomplished.”  Dan 12:7

The “holy people” are the “saints” and the dwelling of God. 1 Cor 3:16,17

 

Truth cannot be explained without the scriptures.  Perhaps it is you, who should learn scripture.  

 

 

 

[Witness]

28 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Then, why does scripture state otherwise? Are you saying witnesses believe the same thing you do? Did you bother to read the cited scriptures above, or was Jesus and the Apostles just making things up? If anyone here believes as you and witness, then it would make perfect sense why you people never learned scripture the right way.

 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

WT 63/9/1 pp. 537-538  “Temple” is also used in a symbolic sense to include Jesus Christ and his body members, or the 144,001, as Jehovah’s arrangement for the carrying on of true worship, a sanctuary for God to inhabit by spirit. This can be clearly seen from reading Ephesians 2:20-22. Since this symbolic temple was represented by the anointed Christians on earth in his day, Paul could also use this name as applying in a representative way when he wrote to the congregation at Corinth: “Do you not know that the body of you people is the temple of the holy spirit?” (1 Cor. 6:19) And at Revelation 21:22 “temple” has yet another significance when Jehovah God and the Lamb Jesus Christ are said to be the temple of the New Jerusalem.”

Most of the Scriptural terms that apply to the 144,000 members of Christ’s body apart from their Head do so quite obviously. Among such are “Christ’s body,” “the body of the Christ,” “the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” And since the “Lamb’s wife” is also termed “the holy city, New Jerusalem,” it follows that this name also applies only to the 144,000 body members. This is borne out by the description of it in Revelation chapter 21.—1 Cor. 12:27; Eph. 4:12; Rev. 21:2, 9, 10.

You believe today's Watchtower lie about the Body of Christ.   The above written in 1963, was surprisingly, truth. How long have you been a JW?  

[JOHN BUTLER]

10 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Then, why does scripture state otherwise? Are you saying witnesses believe the same thing you do? Did you bother to read the cited scriptures above, or was Jesus and the Apostles just making things up? If anyone here believes as you and witness, then it would make perfect sense why you people never learned scripture the right way.

Come on! Popeye, I got your spinach. Pick up the question for witness. Where in scripture does it state only the "144,000" comprise the body of Christ when scripture disproves that ideology?

I won't respond to witness anymore since that alias is stuck on rerun. Perhaps, you might be better at it. If witness made you a convert, then that's one soul this person will be levied against this person by God's justice. 

 

Oh dear Billy you have simply lost the plot, or more likely are being blinded by the Devil. 

The Anointed are the 144,000. The scriptures are for the Anointed. Only the Anointed go to heaven to be with God and Christ. 

The Anointed are the body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, Heavenly Jerusalem. 

Everyone else is of the earthly class. Remember that God intends to restore this Earth to a paradise. 

A resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. Well the unrighteous wouldn't be resurrected to heaven would they ? 

I don't pretend to fully understand all scripture and I don't pretend to be Anointed either. 

The time is not yet here for God to fully reveal who the Anointed are otherwise people that were really seeking truth would know who the Anointed are. 

I'm now quite sure that you Billy are not a JW, you are just a wind up merchant. You know nothing of scripture and nothing of truth. 

 

[Witness]

15 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

What’s even funnier is the lack of understanding with the example given.

*** w63 9/1 p. 537 Names for Christ and His Congregation ***

Names for Christ and His Congregation

We can choose to be part of a “congregation” of believers in Christ,

Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. ²⁹ Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. ³⁰ For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”  Matt 11:28=30

And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. John 6:35

But those who are part of his Body are chosen by God and Christ, to be sealed if faithful, into God's Temple.  2 Cor 6:16-18

You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.   John 15:16

If all believers in Christ were part of his Body/Temple, then all of his disciples would have been at his last meal before his death.  Matt 26:26  His “body” represented by the unleavened, pure bread of truth, that they “ate”, signified becoming one with him. 

¹⁶ The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? ¹⁷ For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread. 1 Cor 10:16,18

Jesus, as the Word of God, is truth. John 14:6  Those called by God who faithfully remain in him are to speak the same truth.   John 17:17

Remain in me, and I in you. Just as a branch is unable to produce fruit by itself unless it remains on the vine, neither can you unless you remain in me.  John 15:4

 

From your article, this is  exactly what I had quoted:

Most of the Scriptural terms that apply to the 144,000 members of Christ’s body apart from their Head do so quite obviously. Among such are “Christ’s body,” “the body of the Christ,” “the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” And since the “Lamb’s wife” is also termed “the holy city, New Jerusalem,” it follows that this name also applies only to the 144,000 body members. This is borne out by the description of it in Revelation chapter 21.—1 Cor. 12:27; Eph. 4:12; Rev. 21:2, 9, 10.

Also, it says,

However, generally when the Christian Greek Scriptures speak of the “congregation” in the broad sense, they are referring to the 144,000 as a body subject to the head Christ Jesus. Thus Paul, at Ephesians 1:22, 23, speaks of “the congregation, which is his body,” and later writes: “I am speaking with respect to Christ and the congregation.”—Eph. 5:32

 

You seem to look at the congregation of JWs as the chosen “body of Christ”, when scriptures do not support this. With the GB in power (presently) as the “head” of that congregation, all the members are thought to be members of Christ’s body; when this is a lying twist of the true body of Christ.  On top of this, all JWs must be submissive to “false christs”.  Mark 13:22

 

Here’s another, very wicked twist:  The Body of Elders has also taken the identity of the authentic body of Christ in the anointed priesthood, and applied it to themselves. ("representing the royal priesthood"...)   They also have, as their “head”, the GB also. The true Temple/Body has lost all identity in the organization.  2 Thess 2:1-4; Rev 11:1-3

 

 

 

 

 

[The Librarian]

@BillyTheKid46 I have deleted his threatening message.

@JOHN BUTLER  I believe you were referring to angels doing the killing at some time in the future and not inciting others to harm anyone.

Either way, both of you need to tone it down or I will block you both.

[JOHN BUTLER]

28 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

@BillyTheKid46 I have deleted his threatening message.

@JOHN BUTLER  I believe you were referring to angels doing the killing at some time in the future and not inciting others to harm anyone.

Either way, both of you need to tone it down or I will block you both.

God didn't use angels to destroy Jerusalem did He ? Now whether God used the Romans to destroy Jerusalem, or, if God took away His protection from Jerusalem and 'allowed' the Romans to destroy it, either way it does not matter, the job was done. 

The Jewish religious leaders thought they could do as they pleased and get away with it. They thought God would protect them no matter what... 

Fast forward to the GB and it's JW Org. They too think they can do anything they want to.They too think that God will protect them no matter what. 

I'm not 'inciting others to harm anyone', I'm just aware of the situation / feelings amongst those that have suffered through mistreatment by members of JW Org, because of rules laid down by the GB.. 

I've mentioned before about the difference between America and the UK. It would seem Stateside that if people have strong enough feelings they will follow through on it. Whereas here in the UK people moan a lot but generally just shout and rant verbally. Yes there is a lot of knife crime here, but in the States there is a lot of gun crime. It is much easier to kill someone with a gun from a distance, that's what I'm saying. 

It's kind of strange that people get squirmish talking about the possibilities of people being killed now. But those same people can happily read about people being killed in the Bible. How many thousand soldiers did one angel kill in one night?

How many Jewish people and others were slaughtered in Jerusalem when it was destroyed ? 

Is God protecting the GB ? Will God continue to protect the GB ? 

Did God continue to protect those Jewish religious leaders from the Romans ? 

Are you frightened of my words ? 

 

[Witness]

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Wrong. What you are desperately trying to do is exalt yourself as an anointed. You are not. Your ideological understanding is flawed, and until you accept that, there is no number of citations given, will change what scripture actually states.

Now if there are other JW's that think the same way, then they learned just as you did, on their own without the guidance of the Watchtower.

The clue that should be obvious, you just stated, who is the Church of Christ.

I am not sure why you say I am exalting myself, when my words are in agreement with the early Watchtower quotes.  Would you say those anointed at that time were exalting themselves? 

Those who have been given authority to disfellowship God’s anointed Temple members, judging them as “dead” for understanding the very words the Watchtower use to teach, are the ones who have exalted themselves by “sitting”/ruling over the Temple of God.  2 Thess 2:4; (1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:19-22   It is fulfilled prophesy for the time of the end. Dan 8:11; Rev 13:1,6,7,11,14-15