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A CIRCUIT OVERSEER STATES, "YOUR FAITH IS GARBAGE AND NEEDS TO BE TORN DOWN"

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@Anna I would love to see who you really are, to see you as a person that is so blind to the deliberate faults of JW Org. 

Your long answer is so full of, I think the GB call it garbage. But I'll probs get told off for saying that... 

 It is true that ultimately God reads hearts and reads motives, and that we cannot judge anyone,

Well it's good that Jesus Christ read the heart of Saul, when Saul was persecuting the early Christians isn't it ? Otherwise the Apostle Paul would not have existed.  

Quote " For example there are those who condone things that God hates and implicitly rejects (eg. practicing homosexuals). "

I see you didn't mention Pedophilia then. You really are blind. 

Quote "Firstly, the organization is only in place because of the preaching work. "

BUT, the message keeps changing to suit the GB and it's writing dept'.  Scripture is deliberately misused to misguide innocent people. The Catholic church is earthwide too with it's false message, so not much difference there. 

Quote "Secondly, the organization strives to strictly adhere to the scriptures."  Anna, wake up, the Org misuses scriptures. 

The 'This Generation' scripture is a great example. The 'Superior Authorities' scripture is another example. Are  you being deliberately blind to all this ? 

Quote "Also, as far as I am aware, those who "leave the org." do not continue to preach, and no longer strictly adhere to the scriptures. "

1. I do not preach anymore because I realise now that i only preached what I was told to preach, and that was not serving God it was serving the JW Org. I am quite prepared to admit that I do not know what 'truth' is, so i would not know what to preach. I truly believe that the scriptures, well the deeper parts thereof, are for the Anointed and that the scripture concerning 'ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' will take place when God makes it truly known who the Spiritual Jew' really is. 

2. As for 'strictly adhere to the scriptures.'  You are right in my case, but then i was never doing so anyway as I was serving an Organisation, so I was never strictly adhering to scriptures and the Society, GB, JW Org, never did and still do not. 

Quote "There are also many that do not see those things you listed as reasons to leave the org. "

That is because those people serve the Org as their god. They do not look for truth, they are just spoonfed and accept it all. Even when the meanings of scriptures are changed by the GB or writing dept', the congregants do not even question it, they dare not for fear of being disfellowshipped. Those poor people do not know any other life, they are trapped inside that giant bubble, and frightened to look for God themselves. They rely on men that are not anointed with Holy Spirit, to guide them. The blind leading the blind, and we know what happens next. 

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19 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I would love a place that anyone can pick and choose, be good or bad at will. The last place that was that way was called Sodom and Gomorra.

That's a very revealing statement about where you would love to live, but it would certainly explain a Lot (and Lot's wife, even more so).

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On 5/6/2019 at 5:59 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

Ryan uses profanity in his posts. You don’t see the librarian banning him from this forum.

I saw an example of that after Outta Here made a complaint about a post with profanity and I saw a lesser example of his (Ryan's) profanity in the past. I hate to see profanity here too, especially because it pushes people away who might otherwise add something more valuable here.

But there is a big difference between profanity against an ideology and directing profanity at a specific person. For example, you are well aware, I'm sure, that that "Allen Smith" was banned after repeated warnings not about profanities but about wild, raging rants that were directed at specific people. Allen acted the part of a cyber-bully. He was not just judgmental but was threatening. Personally I felt badly for persons who might have felt bullied and threatened, but I also considered that all the persons who participated here had already seen many examples from him, that ranged from pathetic to deranged. Therefore, it was likely understood that his threats were not actually meaningful and they therefore carried more "entertainment" value than anything else.

This is why I was against banning Allen, because I thought it more likely that his readers here were mature enough to see through him. For those who didn't want to be entertained in such a way, they could personally block him. I also thought that some of his ad hominem attacks (against the person instead of attempting to respond to an argument) actually strengthened the other person's argument with Allen inadvertently admitting that he could think of no actual response to the evidence itself.

It was only after the warnings that he would be banned that Allen started using profanities. Allen's surprising profanities may have helped some other people think they understand why he was banned, but they were not the real reason. The real reason was always the bullying, in my opinion. 

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23 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If the Society / GB and all in 'command' had acted in the way that Paul was saying in that 1 Corinthians 9 19-23 scripture, then the Earthwide Child Abuse / Pedophilia  would never have happened.  

You probably know that there were infamous cases of immorality that Paul referred to in his letters even to the very Corinthian congregations that Paul himself had "planted." So it doesn't seem reasonable that if the GB had acted as Paul was saying that Child Abuse / Pedophilia would somehow no longer be a problem.

23 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But you seem to see it as just collateral damage, necessary for the 'progress' of the Org.

No, I don't see it as just collateral damage. But when the Org sees it as a problem, I do think it's necessary for its leaders to do all they can to remove it, and "progress" in processes and procedures that can be seen to help eliminate it.

I had said that "the core of the religion itself is one that does perhaps the best job of all religions in fighting the machinations of the Devil" to which you replied:

23 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

How can that be so when many of the beliefs are based on lies or misinformation and meanings of scripture constantly change to suit the purpose of the GB ?

You are asking how it can be logical I guess that someone can be right on some things and not on others. I think you probably already know of many examples. Isaac Newton was right on a surprising number of things, but was wrong on some things, too, and only partially right on many things that he could not have been fully aware of at the time, so that he is still considered right for all practical purposes on many of those things. Aristotle, Pythagoras, St. Augustine, Jerome, Attilla the Hun, Martin Luther, Charles Taze Russell, probably even Hitler were both right on things and wrong on things. We remember them for their overall value or detriment to people or societies.

Misinformation reaches us from liars, but usually from people who truly believe the misinformation, even if it does NOT suit their own purposes. Can you imagine that Rutherford really thought he was lying when he predicted that the "Old Testament" princes like Abraham and David would come back in 1925? If so, he was preparing to be made fun of, to be seen as a fool. He evidently even admitted that he had made an a** of himself, according to the Watchtower. That doesn't strike me as trying to suit his own purposes.

23 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And you yourself mentioned the Armageddon threats from the Org. When in honesty they have no real idea. They keep moving the goalposts to suit themselves.

Just as with Rutherford, I can't see how it "suits themselves." It's because of misinformation that they have believed for the same reason that we have believed it. GB are chosen not because of their ability to question, but because of their "loyalty." In other words, they are chosen for their reputation of not questioning. But when they get into that position, they realize that questions do come at them that are difficult to answer. Except for the "generation" fiasco, I think most changes since around 2000 or so have been for the better. And the only reason for the "generation" fiasco is the inability to question 1914. It seems like just too much of a coincidence.

23 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And also as I've mentioned above the Child Abuse.  

It took a while, but I think they've almost gone as far as they can as of the most recent Watchtower article that covers this topic. It's now just a matter of fully implementing the processes that have been put in place. There is still a matter of compensating for the past, and this is a difficult issue to be discussed elsewhere, I hope.

23 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And of course the shunning we will never agree on but we can agree to differ. 

I think we agree completely on shunning. I have no doubt at all that we have been implementing the shunning practice in an unchristian, unscriptural, and unloving manner. I can see our practice as OK from an "OT" perspective, but not at all from a "NT" perspective. If I get in complete trouble with the Org, it will be because I refuse to shun beyond what is written in the scriptures. I am more concerned about being in trouble with Jehovah than with humans in an organization. And even then, if I am shunned, it does not mean that I will shun in return. As far as it depends upon us, we should work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith.

23 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And I've only just spotted this "and pointing out the value of Christian morality", now that has to be a joke.

No. Very serious. I think that moral cleanliness is preached correctly, even though we see that there are exceptions to how it is practiced. Many Witnesses lead double lives. Many are involved in adultery, fornication, child sexual abuse, spousal abuse, violence against children, cheating, lying, drugs, etc. But most aren't, and most appreciate the value and reminders we get from the platform. Most of us appreciate the association of like-minded persons who also wish to remain clean. I have heard persons say that they wish they could only hire Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses, one time from a person who didn't know I was a Witness. I know of worldly persons who have come into the congregation to try to find a wife from among JWs, based on admiration of their morals. I would never claim we are more moral than any other group of people. But I think we have the best advantage in terms of an overall call to morality that includes not only personal morality, but a realization that we should not even be tainted by immorality of commercial greed, nationalistic murderous wars, etc.

23 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And the "We must question." Really ? and get disfellowshipped for doing so. 

Sure. It might turn out to be a temporary sacrifice for some of us. Some of us might have found ways to question and avoid any consequences. If enough Witnesses perform their Christian duty, however, even a mass of disfellowshippings will automatically produce changes. Open questioning of doctrines at Bethel became common as early as 1974 when it was obvious that 1975 would not likely turn out as Fred Franz had been repeatedly hinting at, even though he didn't predict "1975." (He only predicted what must happen before the 1970's were complete, because of 1975.) Questions became open at Bethel tables, and around Bethel "water coolers" until a crackdown began happening in mid-1978 through 1979. People got dismissed and disfellowshipped in large numbers, but this also resulted in a backlash and exposure of the witch hunting and star-chamber methods. I think the Internet itself is already resulting in a flood of questions all over again that are proving very valuable. It is these that have been been driving many of the new (and better) doctrinal changes since 2000.  

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7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Well it's good that Jesus Christ read the heart of Saul, when Saul was persecuting the early Christians isn't it ? Otherwise the Apostle Paul would not have existed.

Isn't this something we all should remember? 

 

Great point John

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11 hours ago, Anna said:

My answer was to" Witness" who suggested that faith in God was enough to please God, and therefor those who leave the org. but still have faith in God are "ok".

Is that really what I said, Anna?

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Oh @JW Insider it's probably not worth the effort to answer you but I have a bit of time before my darling wife puts my dinner on the table for me.

Let's start with a Quote "You probably know that there were infamous cases of immorality that Paul referred to in his letters even to the very Corinthian congregations that Paul himself had "planted." 

Are look Paul made the immorality known. Whereas, the Elders of the JW congregations hid it all in leters to their HQ and in filing cabinets. Why did the elders hide it ? Because on instructions from the GB. That's why it is all coming into the open now. It follows scripture about 'nothing being hidden that will not be revealed' ...

Quote " But when the Org sees it as a problem, .. "  The Org didn't see it as a problem. It was put 'in their face' by victims of abuse. The problem the GB saw was the cost of the court cases and compensations. 

Why do you use examples of people 'of the world' such as Isaac Newton etc ? They were not 'supposed to be guided by God's Holy Spirit' were they ? 

Your GB pretend to be the 'Faithful and discreet slave' providing the PROPER FOOD at the RIGHT TIME'.  BUT they have to keep changing the food as they give poison instead. So how can they be guided by God to do that ? Do you really think God deliberately misguides His people ? 

Quote "I can't see how it "suits themselves."  The Armageddon threats are obviously to frighten people to get baptised and serve the JW Org. I'm sure we've had quotes on here where the Watchtowers would say the only way to 'get saved' through Armageddon was to be in the Org. More members = more donations.  But then, as with the 7,000 year creative days, it all falls apart and can be seen as lies.  

Quote "the inability to question 1914" ? Are you suggesting more lies ? 

Quote "It's now just a matter of fully implementing the processes that have been put in place." And the two witness rule, what of that ? I'm sure in my own mind that the scripture was not for that use. 

Quote " I  think we agree completely on shunning. I have no doubt at all that we have been implementing the shunning practice in an unchristian, unscriptural, and unloving manner. "

So are we looking at a 100% turnaround on it then ? I very much doubt that.  Remember ,'By their works you will know them'.

Quote " I would never claim we are more moral than any other group of people.".  That's one thing we can agree on then. :) 

But that being the case, thousands of JW's are hypocrites. So it's an unclean Org. 

Quote "If enough Witnesses perform their Christian duty, however, even a mass of disfellowshippings will automatically produce changes. "

I was hoping for a mass 'leaving the JW Org when I left, but it didn't happen. I was hoping that would have produced change.

Enough for now , my wife is calling me to dinner. 

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You are asking how it can be logical I guess that someone can be right on some things and not on others. I think you probably already know of many examples. Isaac Newton was right on a surprising number of things, but was wrong on some things,

If you don't mind for my interruption in your's conversation. 

Isaac Newton or other similar person hasn't, as i know, created Organization in which people will worship someone or something. Isaac not made GB of self and few friends of him who interpreted Bible or some other Holy Book.

Religious nation as JW members, expecting more from GB than followers of Isaac would expected from him. Isaac was not made statements how he and his friends are only channel for spiritual food. :))

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Just as with Rutherford, I can't see how it "suits themselves." It's because of misinformation that they have believed for the same reason that we have believed it. GB are chosen not because of their ability to question, but because of their "loyalty."

Saul of Tarsus believed in his strong "misinformation", that was based on Scriptures. He was "chosen" by JHVH for two  task. One task was to persecute Jesus's followers. Second task was that to put Saul under power that will change his "suited misinformation" and his wrong, misdirected "loyalty".  

Would Saul became Paul without his "wrong" way of worshiping? In fact, What was wrong with his faith in God when Scriptures teaches him to be zealous for JHVH name and to excommunicate (prosecute and persecute) all Jew who not worship god according to the Law?  

Dear JW Insider. Can i, by some of your perspective, make conclusion, how GB are in same/similar position and how in their "loyalty" and "misinformation zealous" also making forms of "prosecution and persecution" of those who disagree with the GB Law, because they see how their (god's) Organizing and Interpretations of Divine Will is Process of Rowing to the Some More Perfect and Final Point of worshiping god in the future? 

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I have heard persons say that they wish they could only hire Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses,

This is interesting. I have some specific personal experience about this. In one period of time i was jobless, and working many jobs including gardening. One day (between 2002-2005 i think) sister Tekla, while working on reception desk in Zagreb Betel received telephone call from one woman (Adventist) who are looking for JW who will gardening (shearing the grass and similar) in her garden. Tekla called me and i made phone call to this Lady and was working there for several seasons. Well, this Adventist woman was show more confident in JW than in her brothers from her congregation :))  (A little self praise and humor  - she was lucky that i was that one who get this call from Betel ahahhaha)      

 

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6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Are look Paul made the immorality known. Whereas, the Elders of the JW congregations hid it all in leters to their HQ and in filing cabinets. Why did the elders hide it ? Because on instructions from the GB. That's why it is all coming into the open now. It follows scripture about 'nothing being hidden that will not be revealed'

OK. I see where you are coming from on this now. I don't know that the GB instructed the hiding from authorities and others in the congregation, but they certainly have known about the hiding, and have gone along with it, and could have ordered exposure of the problem instead of continued hiding. (In the past, hiding apparently happened in most, but not in all cases.) From that perspective, exposure of such crimes and sins would undoubtedly have reduced the problem. Especially the problem of repeat offenders. There are some cases that will probably never come to light in this system due to the systemic nature of trying to protect the reputation of an organization and leaders at the expense of protecting children.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote " But when the Org sees it as a problem, .. "  The Org didn't see it as a problem. It was put 'in their face' by victims of abuse. The problem the GB saw was the cost of the court cases and compensations.

They were late in their correct responses to this problem, in my opinion, but they do see it as a problem. Even if it's exposure and cost. But I know that many have seen it as a problem of justice for the victims, too. Unfortunately, that had previously been dismissed by some in power as less important.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Why do you use examples of people 'of the world' such as Isaac Newton etc ? They were not 'supposed to be guided by God's Holy Spirit' were they ?

Just an analogy to show how someone can be both right and wrong at the same time.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Your GB pretend to be the 'Faithful and discreet slave' providing the PROPER FOOD at the RIGHT TIME'.  BUT they have to keep changing the food as they give poison instead.

There are huge scriptural problems with this claim of the GB to be the exact and complete fulfillment of the FDS. I've dealt with that elsewhere. But we can't forget that it is a Christian duty to try to feed spiritual food to fellow Christians. The GB truly believe this is their duty and they also know that they are not perfect, and must admit to providing wrong guidance at times and sometimes bad spiritual food, too, in the form of false doctrines and false predictions. They probably thought them right at the time, but you are right, that it was not all 'food at the proper time.' 

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So how can they be guided by God to do that ? Do you really think God deliberately misguides His people ? 

People guided by God have made mistakes in Biblical times, when the very same persons had the privilege of seeing Jesus personally, or were even inspired at other times to write books of the Bible. Yet, the GB make no such claim about themselves that they are inspired in this same way. They feel that intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer will all combine in some spiritual way to guide them. Other people have made claims that they claim inspiration, and the distinction gets blurry. And some Witnesses teach "present" truth as immutable in such a way that they, too, have blurred the distinction. In any case, God is not misguiding. It's just that people are so imperfect that we must learn to trust and obey God as ruler rather than sons of men in whom no salvation belongs.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote "the inability to question 1914" ? Are you suggesting more lies ? 

No. The inability to question something is often because something just seems so clear and obvious that we just can't imagine that it could ever be wrong. Or it has been repeated so often that we can't imagine it could be wrong. We don't question things we are "sure" of. It happens to all of us, and then we might be surprised some day to find out we were wrong after all. But by not questioning, we probably will never have to find out.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But that being the case, thousands of JW's are hypocrites. So it's an unclean Org.

So the early Corinthian congregation must also have been an unclean organization. Jesus' organization of his apostles must have been an unclean organization, too.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So are we looking at a 100% turnaround on it then ? I very much doubt that.  Remember ,'By their works you will know them'.

I think it will come close to that. It won't come immediately, but there will be some countries soon, I think, where we won't be allowed to preach unless we stop shunning family members for example. We will agree, and shunning will become a personal, private thing. Most Witnesses don't want to shun, we just do it because we are told it is loving. When there is no longer any threat of getting in trouble for not shunning, most of us will see that it is more loving not to shun. The change will happen organically from that point.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Enough for now , my wife is calling me to dinner.

Food at the proper time.

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, this Adventist woman was show more confident in JW than in her brothers from her congregation :))

That experience could be used at the next convention. Of course, it could be for other reasons. I know some Witnesses here who don't want other Witnesses doing their lawns and landscaping out of concern for privacy among the friends, or just to avoid business dealings and potential misunderstandings. We also had a brother in our congregation who ran a gas station only a quarter mile from the KH, and he was so taken advantage of that an announcement had to be made from the platform that brothers should pay their debts and not expect credit when doing business with fellow Witnesses.

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I had a Brother call me up at 7:30 in the morning, many years ago, asking in desperate need if I had any money I could lend him.  I checked my resources, and told him I had $4.00, which I was planning to use for lunch money that day, but he was welcome to that.

...... and he hung up on me.

That hamburger at lunch was especially delicious !

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BillyTheKid46:

I have somewhere in my 12TB array of 4TB USB hard drives documents from the WT that prove all the assertions you deny here and now. In about two days time I could find, correlate and present them to you .... but in the meantime my recollections only will have to give testimony that you are suffering from a major case of agenda driven WDS .

Since you are a Jehovah's Witness in good standing, I will give you a 20% discount to search for them, print them out for you and mail them to you .... after your check clears the bank.

My usual rate is $105 an hour, and I would need a two day's retainer to get started.  I would refund any funds not used.

Care to put your money where your mouth is?

 

 

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19 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

deliberate faults of JW Org. 

Whether this is deliberate or not is a matter of opinion of course. In any case, I would hesitate to say that anyone makes deliberate mistakes unless they are truly evil. So you are suggesting that the GB are evil. Well, I do not think they are evil.

19 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote " For example there are those who condone things that God hates and implicitly rejects (eg. practicing homosexuals). "

I see you didn't mention Pedophilia then. You really are blind. 

No one condones Pedophilia.

19 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

That is because those people serve the Org as their god. They do not look for truth, they are just spoonfed and accept it all. Even when the meanings of scriptures are changed by the GB or writing dept', the congregants do not even question it, they dare not for fear of being disfellowshipped. Those poor people do not know any other life, they are trapped inside that giant bubble, and frightened to look for God themselves. They rely on men that are not anointed with Holy Spirit, to guide them. The blind leading the blind, and we know what happens next. 

You make very general sweeping statements here about what and how Witnesses believe. Most of the Witnesses I know (I would say 99.9%) have a deep and private relationship with God themselves, with Jesus as their mediator. It must be just your idea to somehow involve a third party, the GB,  in this relationship. I do not know anyone who does that!

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2 hours ago, Anna said:

It must be just your idea to somehow involve a third party, the GB,  in this relationship

That seems to be the trouble with those who apostatize in this manner. They were idolators themselves, but having realised it, they just can't come clean and admit it, they have to accuse everyone else in the organisation they have now renounced of the very practice they themselves engaged in.

They turn themselves into "once-duped" but now "enlightened"victims to gain sympathy and acclaim from their newfound peers. Their self-appointed crusade might provide some temporary relief for the resentment and embarrassment they feel, but needs constant repetition.  

The sad thing is that they think they left the organisation they now oppose. But, actually, they were rejected. :(

1John 2:19: "They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort."

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5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

James Thomas Rook Jr

It might be you have about 2TB’s of false allegations and speculations marred with personal assumptions. The same kind of stored information by dimwitted apostates.

However, I wouldn’t allow such a damaged person mail what would be clearly tainted material without the option of a refund.

But if you wish to take the challenge JWinsider, AKA TrueTom, I will go one step further to allow a secular court deliberate on such a matter with your supplied information. However, If the evidence does not satisfy the court, I will compel the court to charge you personally.

Care to take the Challenge?

Therefore, In God I trust, and slanders go to jail.

Spoken like a true arrogant WT lawyer .... or Gerritt Losch.

The bottom line is, you said NO, to my challenge.

 

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1 hour ago, Outta Here said:

That seems to be the trouble with those who apostatize in this manner. They were idolators themselves, but having realised it, they just can't come clean and admit it, they have to accuse everyone else in the organisation they have now renounced of the very practice they themselves engaged in.

They turn themselves into "once-duped" but now "enlightened"victims to gain sympathy and acclaim from their newfound peers. Their self-appointed crusade might provide some temporary relief for the resentment and embarrassment they feel, but needs constant repetition.  

The sad thing is that they think they left the organisation they now oppose. But, actually, they were rejected. :(

1John 2:19: "They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort."

Well if you put it like that @Outta Here I suppose I went out from JW Org because I'm not a Pedophilie and I don't condone Pedophilia, so I proved that I an not of that 'sort'.  Your quote of scripture not mine. 

As for me being an 'idolator' and then realising it, you are right. Exactly right. I did serve the JW Org as I thought it had 'truth'. But now having studied the bible myself without the misguidance of the JW Org, I see through the veneer of the GB domination. @JW Insider has just confirmed much of what I believe about the GB and it's Org. @James Thomas Rook Jr. says he has proof of same, if he is being serious. 

Actually i have 'come clean' about it many times on this forum. Maybe you don't read many of my posts.

However, I always think of Saul that thought he was doing right until Jesus showed him what was really right.  Saul would never have become Paul without guidance from Jesus Christ.  Maybe, just maybe, Jesus sees those in JW Org that think they are doing right but are doing wrong,  then maybe Jesus shows them the right way. Maybe Jesus will help people to leave the JW Org and to find the right way to serve God. I haven't given up hope In God through Christ. 

Quoter "some temporary relief for the resentment and embarrassment they feel,"   Do you really think the Apostle Paul felt that ? Look how off track Paul was, but Jesus guided him in the right direction. Do you think Paul was embarrassed ? I think Paul was too busy doing God's will to be concerned for his own embarrassment.  I'm also too busy to be embarrassed. 

Oh by the way the scripture you have used doesn't match the purpose you had for it. 

: "They went out from us ... But they went out  ...   Does not  = But, actually, they were rejected 

To leave of one's own accord is not being discarded or rejected, it is LEAVING OF ONE'S OWN ACCORD. :) :) 

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5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Look how off track Paul was, but Jesus guided him in the right direction.

 You surely don't compare your situation with that of Paul's conversion to Christianity do you? Is that the result of your "having studied the bible" yourself? The only similarity apparent is what Jesus said at Acts 26:14.

I think you will find that those who "go out" from the Christian congregation due to being of the "wrong sort" actualy fit the description of those in Jesus' illustration of the dragnet as "unsuitable fish" (wrong sort). They are thrown out by the angels, regardless of any illusion they might have of leaving of their own volition.

But then of course, as to an individual judgement of such ones, jthe final estimation  of their actual worth lies with Jehovah and the man he has appointed. With the right heart, they can still return if they become the right sort. (Of course, even that is by Jehovah's permission as it is he that "draws" men to Christ).

However you want to view it, you are not of our sort at present, and the generally patronising tone and insulting content of these postings you make suggest a heart that is abundant in rather unpleasant things at the moment. You and your former congregation are better off the way things are currently. Likely. the same applies to the video makers in the original posting.

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18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

They feel that intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer will all combine in some spiritual way to guide them.

This is very good sentence, from which i read next: 

All and every moment of efforts numbered here (intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer) reveals one side - human efforts, to gain, what? ....these things are combination of preconditions, causes that will, supposedly,  result in spiritual guidance (from above). 

What i see here is, only/solely working (almost fleshly) efforts of particular human who strive to get, to receive something divinely, spiritually from God, by deeds, by work (aka intensive bible study, more preaching, more meetings etc).

What is omitted in this sentence (not by purpose and not from you personally) but by common/general view in WT organization is the role of Second Part in this "equation". Influence and power that depend of that very Person who is The Source of spiritual guidance.   

Pushing made by/from WTJWORG  how person must and have to do this and that and to do it more and more, is something that can be obstacle, dam, close door for Divine Power. Yes, Divine Power destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah or Jericho Walls, BUT it can be very "Powerless" to change human minds and hearts. Because in case of Sodom and Jericho we talking about Naked Power. But when people are involved, this Spirit Force is on Next Level, in my opinion, on level of soft, gently, unobtrusively, discretely actions and effects...... After all, JHVH ask, plead for love by your free will.

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