A CIRCUIT OVERSEER STATES, "YOUR FAITH IS GARBAGE AND NEEDS TO BE TORN DOWN"

[JW Insider]

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Are look Paul made the immorality known. Whereas, the Elders of the JW congregations hid it all in leters to their HQ and in filing cabinets. Why did the elders hide it ? Because on instructions from the GB. That's why it is all coming into the open now. It follows scripture about 'nothing being hidden that will not be revealed'

OK. I see where you are coming from on this now. I don't know that the GB instructed the hiding from authorities and others in the congregation, but they certainly have known about the hiding, and have gone along with it, and could have ordered exposure of the problem instead of continued hiding. (In the past, hiding apparently happened in most, but not in all cases.) From that perspective, exposure of such crimes and sins would undoubtedly have reduced the problem. Especially the problem of repeat offenders. There are some cases that will probably never come to light in this system due to the systemic nature of trying to protect the reputation of an organization and leaders at the expense of protecting children.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote " But when the Org sees it as a problem, .. "  The Org didn't see it as a problem. It was put 'in their face' by victims of abuse. The problem the GB saw was the cost of the court cases and compensations.

They were late in their correct responses to this problem, in my opinion, but they do see it as a problem. Even if it's exposure and cost. But I know that many have seen it as a problem of justice for the victims, too. Unfortunately, that had previously been dismissed by some in power as less important.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Why do you use examples of people 'of the world' such as Isaac Newton etc ? They were not 'supposed to be guided by God's Holy Spirit' were they ?

Just an analogy to show how someone can be both right and wrong at the same time.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Your GB pretend to be the 'Faithful and discreet slave' providing the PROPER FOOD at the RIGHT TIME'.  BUT they have to keep changing the food as they give poison instead.

There are huge scriptural problems with this claim of the GB to be the exact and complete fulfillment of the FDS. I've dealt with that elsewhere. But we can't forget that it is a Christian duty to try to feed spiritual food to fellow Christians. The GB truly believe this is their duty and they also know that they are not perfect, and must admit to providing wrong guidance at times and sometimes bad spiritual food, too, in the form of false doctrines and false predictions. They probably thought them right at the time, but you are right, that it was not all 'food at the proper time.' 

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So how can they be guided by God to do that ? Do you really think God deliberately misguides His people ? 

People guided by God have made mistakes in Biblical times, when the very same persons had the privilege of seeing Jesus personally, or were even inspired at other times to write books of the Bible. Yet, the GB make no such claim about themselves that they are inspired in this same way. They feel that intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer will all combine in some spiritual way to guide them. Other people have made claims that they claim inspiration, and the distinction gets blurry. And some Witnesses teach "present" truth as immutable in such a way that they, too, have blurred the distinction. In any case, God is not misguiding. It's just that people are so imperfect that we must learn to trust and obey God as ruler rather than sons of men in whom no salvation belongs.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote "the inability to question 1914" ? Are you suggesting more lies ? 

No. The inability to question something is often because something just seems so clear and obvious that we just can't imagine that it could ever be wrong. Or it has been repeated so often that we can't imagine it could be wrong. We don't question things we are "sure" of. It happens to all of us, and then we might be surprised some day to find out we were wrong after all. But by not questioning, we probably will never have to find out.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But that being the case, thousands of JW's are hypocrites. So it's an unclean Org.

So the early Corinthian congregation must also have been an unclean organization. Jesus' organization of his apostles must have been an unclean organization, too.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So are we looking at a 100% turnaround on it then ? I very much doubt that.  Remember ,'By their works you will know them'.

I think it will come close to that. It won't come immediately, but there will be some countries soon, I think, where we won't be allowed to preach unless we stop shunning family members for example. We will agree, and shunning will become a personal, private thing. Most Witnesses don't want to shun, we just do it because we are told it is loving. When there is no longer any threat of getting in trouble for not shunning, most of us will see that it is more loving not to shun. The change will happen organically from that point.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Enough for now , my wife is calling me to dinner.

Food at the proper time.

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, this Adventist woman was show more confident in JW than in her brothers from her congregation :))

That experience could be used at the next convention. Of course, it could be for other reasons. I know some Witnesses here who don't want other Witnesses doing their lawns and landscaping out of concern for privacy among the friends, or just to avoid business dealings and potential misunderstandings. We also had a brother in our congregation who ran a gas station only a quarter mile from the KH, and he was so taken advantage of that an announcement had to be made from the platform that brothers should pay their debts and not expect credit when doing business with fellow Witnesses.

[Evacuated]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

not expect credit when doing business with fellow

   Don't make a practice of granting credit to fellow Witnesses!!!

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I had a Brother call me up at 7:30 in the morning, many years ago, asking in desperate need if I had any money I could lend him.  I checked my resources, and told him I had $4.00, which I was planning to use for lunch money that day, but he was welcome to that.

...... and he hung up on me.

That hamburger at lunch was especially delicious !

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

BillyTheKid46:

I have somewhere in my 12TB array of 4TB USB hard drives documents from the WT that prove all the assertions you deny here and now. In about two days time I could find, correlate and present them to you .... but in the meantime my recollections only will have to give testimony that you are suffering from a major case of agenda driven WDS .

Since you are a Jehovah's Witness in good standing, I will give you a 20% discount to search for them, print them out for you and mail them to you .... after your check clears the bank.

My usual rate is $105 an hour, and I would need a two day's retainer to get started.  I would refund any funds not used.

Care to put your money where your mouth is?

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

In God I trust.

All others pay cash!

[Anna]

19 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

deliberate faults of JW Org. 

Whether this is deliberate or not is a matter of opinion of course. In any case, I would hesitate to say that anyone makes deliberate mistakes unless they are truly evil. So you are suggesting that the GB are evil. Well, I do not think they are evil.

19 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote " For example there are those who condone things that God hates and implicitly rejects (eg. practicing homosexuals). "

I see you didn't mention Pedophilia then. You really are blind. 

No one condones Pedophilia.

19 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

That is because those people serve the Org as their god. They do not look for truth, they are just spoonfed and accept it all. Even when the meanings of scriptures are changed by the GB or writing dept', the congregants do not even question it, they dare not for fear of being disfellowshipped. Those poor people do not know any other life, they are trapped inside that giant bubble, and frightened to look for God themselves. They rely on men that are not anointed with Holy Spirit, to guide them. The blind leading the blind, and we know what happens next. 

You make very general sweeping statements here about what and how Witnesses believe. Most of the Witnesses I know (I would say 99.9%) have a deep and private relationship with God themselves, with Jesus as their mediator. It must be just your idea to somehow involve a third party, the GB,  in this relationship. I do not know anyone who does that!

[Evacuated]

2 hours ago, Anna said:

It must be just your idea to somehow involve a third party, the GB,  in this relationship

That seems to be the trouble with those who apostatize in this manner. They were idolators themselves, but having realised it, they just can't come clean and admit it, they have to accuse everyone else in the organisation they have now renounced of the very practice they themselves engaged in.

They turn themselves into "once-duped" but now "enlightened"victims to gain sympathy and acclaim from their newfound peers. Their self-appointed crusade might provide some temporary relief for the resentment and embarrassment they feel, but needs constant repetition.  

The sad thing is that they think they left the organisation they now oppose. But, actually, they were rejected. 

1John 2:19: "They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort."

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

James Thomas Rook Jr

It might be you have about 2TB’s of false allegations and speculations marred with personal assumptions. The same kind of stored information by dimwitted apostates.

However, I wouldn’t allow such a damaged person mail what would be clearly tainted material without the option of a refund.

But if you wish to take the challenge JWinsider, AKA TrueTom, I will go one step further to allow a secular court deliberate on such a matter with your supplied information. However, If the evidence does not satisfy the court, I will compel the court to charge you personally.

Care to take the Challenge?

Therefore, In God I trust, and slanders go to jail.

Spoken like a true arrogant WT lawyer .... or Gerritt Losch.

The bottom line is, you said NO, to my challenge.

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 hour ago, Outta Here said:

That seems to be the trouble with those who apostatize in this manner. They were idolators themselves, but having realised it, they just can't come clean and admit it, they have to accuse everyone else in the organisation they have now renounced of the very practice they themselves engaged in.

They turn themselves into "once-duped" but now "enlightened"victims to gain sympathy and acclaim from their newfound peers. Their self-appointed crusade might provide some temporary relief for the resentment and embarrassment they feel, but needs constant repetition.  

The sad thing is that they think they left the organisation they now oppose. But, actually, they were rejected. 

1John 2:19: "They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort."

Well if you put it like that @Outta Here I suppose I went out from JW Org because I'm not a Pedophilie and I don't condone Pedophilia, so I proved that I an not of that 'sort'.  Your quote of scripture not mine. 

As for me being an 'idolator' and then realising it, you are right. Exactly right. I did serve the JW Org as I thought it had 'truth'. But now having studied the bible myself without the misguidance of the JW Org, I see through the veneer of the GB domination. @JW Insider has just confirmed much of what I believe about the GB and it's Org. @James Thomas Rook Jr. says he has proof of same, if he is being serious. 

Actually i have 'come clean' about it many times on this forum. Maybe you don't read many of my posts.

However, I always think of Saul that thought he was doing right until Jesus showed him what was really right.  Saul would never have become Paul without guidance from Jesus Christ.  Maybe, just maybe, Jesus sees those in JW Org that think they are doing right but are doing wrong,  then maybe Jesus shows them the right way. Maybe Jesus will help people to leave the JW Org and to find the right way to serve God. I haven't given up hope In God through Christ. 

Quoter "some temporary relief for the resentment and embarrassment they feel,"   Do you really think the Apostle Paul felt that ? Look how off track Paul was, but Jesus guided him in the right direction. Do you think Paul was embarrassed ? I think Paul was too busy doing God's will to be concerned for his own embarrassment.  I'm also too busy to be embarrassed. 

Oh by the way the scripture you have used doesn't match the purpose you had for it. 

: "They went out from us ... But they went out  ...   Does not  = But, actually, they were rejected 

To leave of one's own accord is not being discarded or rejected, it is LEAVING OF ONE'S OWN ACCORD.   

[Evacuated]

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Look how off track Paul was, but Jesus guided him in the right direction.

 You surely don't compare your situation with that of Paul's conversion to Christianity do you? Is that the result of your "having studied the bible" yourself? The only similarity apparent is what Jesus said at Acts 26:14.

I think you will find that those who "go out" from the Christian congregation due to being of the "wrong sort" actualy fit the description of those in Jesus' illustration of the dragnet as "unsuitable fish" (wrong sort). They are thrown out by the angels, regardless of any illusion they might have of leaving of their own volition.

But then of course, as to an individual judgement of such ones, jthe final estimation  of their actual worth lies with Jehovah and the man he has appointed. With the right heart, they can still return if they become the right sort. (Of course, even that is by Jehovah's permission as it is he that "draws" men to Christ).

However you want to view it, you are not of our sort at present, and the generally patronising tone and insulting content of these postings you make suggest a heart that is abundant in rather unpleasant things at the moment. You and your former congregation are better off the way things are currently. Likely. the same applies to the video makers in the original posting.

[Srecko Sostar]

18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

They feel that intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer will all combine in some spiritual way to guide them.

This is very good sentence, from which i read next: 

All and every moment of efforts numbered here (intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer) reveals one side - human efforts, to gain, what? ....these things are combination of preconditions, causes that will, supposedly,  result in spiritual guidance (from above). 

What i see here is, only/solely working (almost fleshly) efforts of particular human who strive to get, to receive something divinely, spiritually from God, by deeds, by work (aka intensive bible study, more preaching, more meetings etc).

What is omitted in this sentence (not by purpose and not from you personally) but by common/general view in WT organization is the role of Second Part in this "equation". Influence and power that depend of that very Person who is The Source of spiritual guidance.   

Pushing made by/from WTJWORG  how person must and have to do this and that and to do it more and more, is something that can be obstacle, dam, close door for Divine Power. Yes, Divine Power destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah or Jericho Walls, BUT it can be very "Powerless" to change human minds and hearts. Because in case of Sodom and Jericho we talking about Naked Power. But when people are involved, this Spirit Force is on Next Level, in my opinion, on level of soft, gently, unobtrusively, discretely actions and effects...... After all, JHVH ask, plead for love by your free will.