REPROOF FROM THE PLATFORM

[TrueTomHarley]

15 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Um, well I've just given an example that it does exist Tom. 

“An example” is not a tidal wave. And JWI says he knows of...what...three or four? (Billy is choking on his coffee right now) Also hardly a tidal wave.

In an ever-replenishing group currently at 8 million, you are going to find many examples of anything.

You think in such absolutes, John. You cannot do that with people. Any mental health professional will tell you that it only makes trouble for you.

You hone in like a laser on any report of CSA among JWs and publicly say that you care not a whit when it is reported anywhere else. How balanced is that? What is your interest here?

When the world you have chosen gets a handle on CSA, then come screaming at everyone here. As it is, it is the most common thing in the world to hear of this or that perpetrator picked up who already went though the system that you think is so foolproof—he was already on the sex offender registry, living just down the street and nobody knew it. 

Meanwhile, nearly ALL of the attention given to CSA in the greater world is about punishing after the fact. Little is about prevention. Consider that the JW worldwide convention in 2017 gathered every member in the world to spell out detailed scenarios in which CSA might occur, so that parents, the obvious first line of defense, might be vigilant. NOBODY else has done that. 

I do allow that a ‘culture’ should change in which some, although free to report CSA, declined to do it. I agree with JWI that the May Wt goes a long way in clarifying that. I have allowed here that the ones so zealous to “keep the congregation clean” have in some respects made the situation worse:

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/04/lessons-to-be-learned-re-child-sexual-abuse.html

 

[TrueTomHarley]

“As it is, it is the most common thing in the world to hear of this or that perpetrator picked up who already went though the system that you think is so foolproof—he was already on the sex offender registry, living just down the street and nobody knew it.“

The Economist Magazine tells of one proposed law in Georgia that said no convicted child abuser could live within 1000 yards of a school. It was discarded when someone with a compass did some work and determined that it meant they couldn’t live anywhere.

[JW Insider]

45 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The Economist Magazine tells of one proposed law in Georgia that said no convicted child abuser could live within 1000 yards of a school.

I think it's 1000 FEET, but it wasn't just schools, it was to apply to anywhere where children congregate, including schools.

Note:

"Registered sex offenders in Georgia are barred from living within 1,000 feet of anywhere children may congregate, such as a school . . ."

Unjust and ineffective - Sex laws - The Economist

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2009/08/06/unjust-and-ineffective

The problem is that children may congregate at a school, park, library, bus stop, playground, mall, etc.

[JOHN BUTLER]

@TrueTomHarley  Quote "You hone in like a laser on any report of CSA among JWs and publicly say that you care not a whit when it is reported anywhere else. How balanced is that? What is your interest here?"

It's not that i don't care about the children that are being abused elsewhere, it's that the JW Org is totally different in it's way of 'gathering together to upbuild one another'. 

The JW Org pretends to be so clean and inviting. So we are back to the scripture where Jesus says about cleaning the inside of the bowl or dish, then the outside will also be clean. 

JW's go out into the ministry to invite families into Kingdom Halls. JW's go into people private houses / dwellings. JW's give private bible studies to children and take them out on the ministry.  Most other religions do none of those things and if people visit churches as a family it would be most likely that the children would stay with their parents all the time. 

Of course in clubs such as football training, swimming lessons etc there is also a great danger as has been found out, but I'm concentrating on the one religion that goes out to the public and tell the public that they are the one and only way to gain salvation. The JW religion that puts on a front of cleanliness and goodness so as to entice people in, like the spider to the fly. 

The religion that uses a personal name for God, then brings shame on that name. 

Oh and I see you haven't forgotten your training from your superiors,, mentioning a person's mental health once again. It seems to be a JW thing now, a sort of regular dig at anyone that should dare speak the truth about JW Org. 

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

A'haz ....and he reigned for 16 years in Jerusalem.

Well, this Bible example and report of past events show us how his "regime" was "legal" or legal for 16 years. And AFTER 16 years things started to change.

No one in Jew nation made real opposition to king Ahaz, no Judicial Commission, no dfd, no shunning. He continue with bad ruling and evil work. How similar it is to today. Governing Structures continues to work on their own way, even longer than 16 years.     

[JOHN BUTLER]

Quite funny how Billy is comparing the JW Org to the nations, when the JW Org is supposed to be 'no part of this world'. 

I've said it before but it seems that JW's are tooooo blind or deaf or stupid to understand. 

If you want to compare the JW Org to something, do not use the world or the nations or 'on the streets' etc....

USE ONLY GOD'S STANDARDS TO COMPARE TO. 

We all know the world / nations / streets et al are all controlled by the devil and therefor disgusting places and well below God's standards. So why oh why do JW's even think about comparing JW Org to those devil controlled things. Is it because the JW Org is also controlled by the devil ? 

Actually Billy, i think i would chop off some of the fingers of proven Pedophiles. The last two fingers on each hand, so that their hands could not grip as well, and so that they would be recognised for what they are. God had people stoned to death so chopping off a few fingers is not so bad in comparison.  

Can we get one thing straight. This is a JW forum. This forum is about JW Org and how it is run / controlled. 

This is not a world topic forum. 

Hence I keep to the topic of this forum, JW's.   

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

mentioning a person's mental health once again.

Perhaps it is appropriate here. When you single-mindedly hone in on one and one thing only,  time and time and time again, and you ignore much greater examples of that evil in any other place, I think it becomes an appropriate possibility to float.

That does not mean that there is any shame in it, necessarily, any more than in any other type of health woe—unless you actively aggravate it, like the fellow with bad arteries who stuffs himself full of chips.

[JOHN BUTLER]

5 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Perhaps it is appropriate here. When you single-mindedly hone in on one and one thing only,  time and time and time again, and you ignore much greater examples of that evil in any other place, I think it becomes an appropriate possibility to float.

That does not mean that there is any shame in it, necessarily, any more than in any other type of health woe—unless you actively aggravate it, like the fellow with bad arteries who stuffs himself full of chips.

Well i actually have broadened out on things quite often. There is the misuse of scriptures, such as the two witness rule. 

There is the stupid excuse for changing the meanings of scriptures, calling it 'new light'. 

There is the shunning of people that either have left the Org of their own choice or were disfellowshipped in an unChristian way. 

And it looks like i have to repeat this again. This is a JW forum, not a Catholic one, not a Protestant one, not a Muslim one, not a worldly one, hence i talk about the JW Org and it's boses. 

The JW Org that pretends to be the only hope of salvation from this wicked world. 

Two important things. God's will being done and God's purposes being fulfilled.

The JW Org, at this time is not doing either. The Org is full of disgusting things, and it teaches lies or deceptions. 

How will people come to know the truth about God and God's purposes ?  The JW org is no different to any other religion spouting lies, so how can you boast about it ?

[JOHN BUTLER]

Oh dear poor billy is throwing his rattles out of his pram again, poor boy is having another tantrum.

Go to the top of the page billy and read what it says and stop making yourself look so stupid. 

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES OPEN CLUB. 

Can we get one thing straight. This is a JW forum. This forum is about JW Org and how it is run / controlled. 

Get a life billy, go and have a coffee or something. 

 

 

[Anna]

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Do you believe any of the cases of child abuse within the JW Org, from any country in this earth ?

Yes, I do, and so do elders and others I have spoken with.

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Do you believe that any of the Elders that did continuously abuse children in the JW Org were known to be doing so

This may have been a reality, but not because the elders were known to be doing so, but rather because no one believed they really were doing it. If it was a victims word against an elder, the elder's denial may have been believed over the victim. Big difference.

 

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Do you think it was possible for those Elders to continue to abuse children because they were allowed to keep their position as Elder even though it was known they had abused children in the past

Yes, it was possible because of same answer as above.

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

OR do you think that every complaint against every Elder concerning child abuse, is a lie by apostates ? 

You have already forgotten that no one ever said that cases of child abuse were lies by apostates. What has been said is that apostates say that we do not care about child abuse, and that is a lie. Again, big difference.

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But of course JW Org is much better than the Nation of Israel    isn't it.

What I actually said was that no organization purposefully condones child abuse.

[Anna]

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Also, in general, I think the evidence is strong that the higher up a person is in the organization, the more he has been protected from scandal, because that scandal was thought to reflect so badly when it is someone known by all the Witnesses of a specific country or, at least once in the past, even internationally.

Being protected from scandal surely does not include remaining an Elder despite clear evidence that they have been guilty of child abuse,  since that is what John was mainly talking about. I cannot see that happening in view of 1Timothy 3:2. A person like that would clearly not qualify, even if the accusation was not true, but there was notoriety. 

[Anna]

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

JW's give private bible studies to children and take them out on the ministry. 

 No one gives private bible studies to children anymore unless they are the parents. Same with the ministry.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 if people visit churches as a family it would be most likely that the children would stay with their parents all the time.

Most churches separate kids from the parents. It is JW kids who stay with their parents all the time.