Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man

[JOHN BUTLER]

Well at the end of it all none of us really know. It is my humble opinion that no one on here is an Inspired Anointed person, so we all 'understand' scripture differently. 

I for one would not claim to be Anointed or Inspired. Hence i often say I do not know the answers.

However, it is clear for anyone to see that the GB as they are now, and how they and the Society have been in the past, cannot have God's approval. Why would God guide dishonest, self serving men ? 

Some on here think the GB / Society  have 'made mistakes' in the past, but it looks quite clearly that they deliberately sinned, and continue to do so.

Some may say that if i don't know the way then how do I know what is not right. Well even if I was lost in the countryside I would know it wouldn't be clever to jump over the edge of a cliff. 

BtK likes to think that his version of scripture is always right and that most of us here have no idea, but in reality it just shown that he is exalting himself above the rest of us. Luke 14 v11 deals with that. 

So I suppose we will all continue to write comments based on our own feelings and thoughts, or for the JW's more likely based on the thoughts and words of the GB and writing dept.  

 

[JW Insider]

16 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Well at the end of it all none of us really know.

I definitely agree with that. No matter how sure I might sound, I am just giving an opinion on what I believe a Scripture might mean. Even if I don't have any doubts about it, it doesn't make it true.

16 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It is my humble opinion that no one on here is an Inspired Anointed person, so we all 'understand' scripture differently.

And that too. BTW, it's this tendency to conflate "inspired" and "anointed" that made me think you might have thought that the GB ought to be "inspired" in some way even though they have clearly said that they are not. I know you have never said it that way, but you have made previous comments that make me think that you believed a TRUE "faithful and discreet slave" should "in effect" be inspired in some way. You have said things like the following:

On 10/3/2018 at 10:43 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

So are you saying the GB are not inspired by God or Jesus Christ when they make predictions ? 

Again, are you saying that the GB are not inspired at all ? 

Are you in effect saying the GB are not the 'faithful and discreet slave' ? 

I probably read too much into it.

16 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

However, it is clear for anyone to see that the GB as they are now, and how they and the Society have been in the past, cannot have God's approval. Why would God guide dishonest, self serving men ?

I personally do not think of the Governing Body as "THE faithful and discreet slave." I don't think anyone, or any particular identifiable group is "THAT slave." It was merely an illustration that showed how some Christians might be like that good slave, and some might be like this other bad slave. In fact, Jesus gave many more examples of how the slave might be bad than might be good. I think that Jesus gave the illustration, not to create a hierarchical group that might try to "lord it over" their fellow Christians, or try to be "governors of their souls" or "guardians of doctrine." I think Jesus knew that most Christians, imperfect as we are, would strive to do good and probably fall short many times. Jesus is already identified as the "One Governor" of our faith, and he told us not to follow those who want to be called Leader, Father or Teacher. We can find many different teachers under many different circumstances in our Christian experience, and we can try to be one of those many teachers to others, when called upon.

I think Paul dealt with people who looked to men (like Paul, Apollos, and Cephas) to be their Governing Body, or other superfine apostles. But Paul spoke out against the idea in several ways, even though Paul himself really was a "guardian of doctrine." Here are some excerpts from the entire chapter of 1 Corinthians 4, where we actually find some  comments about supposed "faithful" and "discreet" "stewards" and the idea of "lording it over others" which is exactly what Jesus' illustration warned against:

(1 Corinthians 4:1-21) . . . A man should regard us as attendants of Christ and stewards of God’s sacred secrets. 2 In this regard, what is expected of stewards is that they be found faithful. 3 Now to me it is of very little importance to be examined by you or by a human tribunal.. . . the one who examines me is Jehovah. 5 Therefore, do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes. He will bring the secret things of darkness to light and make known the intentions of the hearts, and then each one will receive his praise from God. 6 Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A·polʹlos for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other. 7 For who makes you different from another? Indeed, what do you have that you did not receive? If, in fact, you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it? 8 Are you already satisfied? Are you already rich? Have you begun ruling as kings without us? I really wish that you had begun ruling as kings, so that we also might rule with you as kings. 9 For it seems to me that God has put us the apostles last on exhibition as men condemned to death, because we have become a theatrical spectacle to the world, and to angels and to men. 10 We are fools because of Christ, but you are discreet in Christ; we are weak, but you are strong; you are held in honor, but we in dishonor. . . . 14 I am writing these things, not to put you to shame, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15 For though you may have 10,000 guardians in Christ, you certainly do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus, I have become your father through the good news. 16 I urge you, therefore, become imitators of me. 17 That is why I am sending Timothy to you, because he is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord. He will remind you of my methods in connection with Christ Jesus, just as I am teaching everywhere in every congregation. 18 Some are puffed up with pride, as though I were not coming to you. 19 But I will come to you shortly, if Jehovah wills, and I will get to know, not the speech of those who are puffed up with pride, but their power. 20 For the Kingdom of God is a matter not of speech but of power. 21 Which do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod or with love and mildness of spirit?

To me this sounds like a commentary on the parable itself. It contains the idea that some would want to beat their fellow servants. They would want to take matters into their own hands before the Lord comes in his due time. Some would be puffed up and wish to begin ruling as kings (governors). These human tribunals (governing bodies) are considered unimportant to Paul. They are trying to judge matters before their time. They are drunk with power, puffed up with pride. Not even the apostles look for "honor" or present themselves as "discreet" and yet these persons want to present themselves as discreet (wise). So Paul sends people to them (like Apollos and Timothy) who are NOT at all like that, people such as Timothy who follow the mild and loving methods of Paul, who will treat them like a father admonishes beloved children. And as far as "guardians" Paul says that they may have "10,000 guardians" not just 8 or so. 10,000 was on the order of the actual number of Christians in the Roman Empire at that time, according to Acts.

Now most Witnesses probably think about the GB as exactly the kind of loving admonishers that Paul and Timothy and Apollos must have been. So this should not be taken as an indictment of the idea of a Governing Body. But I understand some of the problems you have with the Governing Body and their claims.

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

To me this sounds like a commentary on the parable itself.

I think not. The contexts are completely different. 

The superfine apostles that Paul fought with in Corinth were men very impressed with the wisdom of that Greek culture that Paul deliberately set aside. The first three chapters of 1 Corinthians makes that clear. Paul determined that he would know nothing among them except Christ impaled. He probably could have gone toe to toe with them in “wisdom” in a way that most others could not because he was educated as a Pharisee. He decided not to. Consequently he came to them with “fear and trembling” since he effectively approached them with “one hand tied behind his back.”

Does this in any way fit the GB? They never have such “wisdom” of the educated world and are roundly derided for it. Their formal education stops at high school in almost all cases.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

They are drunk with power, puffed up with pride.

The superfine apostles were that way, but the telling circumstance is that they hadn’t done anything to merit it. The GB are not that way, in my estimation, but the telling circumstance is that they have done something to merit it if they were.

The superfine ones were comfortable men who wanted Paul’s authority but not his work. The GB have taken on his work. Paul almost loses it in his second letter comparing how his record bests the superfine ones in every way. So this, too, doesn’t fit the GB at all. They do have circumstances approaching that of Paul, as the superfine apostles did not. They have usually served full-time for decades, often in circumstances more lowly than of those that they would later lead.

In no possible way can they be compared to the armchair superfine apostles of the Corinth area.

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Darn, you stated something I hate to agree with. My hat off to you Sr. Finally some intelligence. You might relay that to witness. This person considers to be anointed or even better, from the natural Jew of royal priesthood. 🤔

The problem people have is with the transition from the Natural Jew to the Spiritual Jew. I would dare ask, does anyone know if Jesus was "anointed" by God as a Natural Jew or a Spiritual Jew? and was that the last appointment of the anointed?

At Jesus' baptism God's Holy Spirit came from heaven and settled on him, so I would have thought that he was anointed then. 

Matthew 3 v 16

¹⁶ As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. ¹⁷ And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

[JOHN BUTLER]

@JW Insider  i had told myself i would not spend time on here today as I have much work that needs doing BUT :-

Quote " but you have made previous comments that make me think that you believed a TRUE "faithful and discreet slave" should "in effect" be inspired in some way "

Yes indeed. I think much of the Bible is written in a sort of 'code'. Yes we can read the words but we can have different interpretations of those words. Indeed the GB of JW Org change the meanings of some scriptures as I've said before. It gets boring to mention the 'Superior Authorities' & ' This Generation'  but it proves a point. 

The Bible books were written under inspiration of God's Holy Spirit. The Bible was compiled under the same inspiration. 

The scripture which actually says 'All scripture is inspired of God .... ' is rather strange for two reasons. 1. not all scripture had been written at the time, and 2. certainly the 'bible had not been compiled. My feeling about that scripture is that it referred to the Hebrew writings, which the early Christians already had.  Otherwise it would have to have been prophecy about the writing of the other books and the complete 66 books being gathered together as one. 

Now we know that in times of war countries use code words etc. And we know that we live in a time of spiritual warfare. So it is my humble opinion that only Inspired Anointed would have the key to the code of the deeper things of God's word.

Remember, after Jesus was resurrected and he was walking along with, two disciples i think, (my mind goes) then Jesus fully opened up the scriptures to them. 

Well in my opinion Jesus will only open up the scriptures to the true Anointed, and that opening up will be by the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit. The very same inspiration by Holy Spirit that was given to write those 66 books.  

Will there be Anointed that are inspired and also Anointed that are not inspired ?  I do not know. But it must be Inspired Anointed that lead God's true organisation, otherwise it will end up like JW org. :) 

Enough I must work now.  I have much more to convey, but not yet, not yet.............. (yes it's a film quote) 

[JW Insider]

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Well in my opinion Jesus will only open up the scriptures to the true Anointed, and that opening up will be by the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit. The very same inspiration by Holy Spirit that was given to write those 66 books.  

Thanks for explaining. This was the impression I got from you, and it was reinforced with this other idea that you conveyed: that since the scriptures were only written to and for the anointed, we must take a kind of 'sit-and-wait' attitude until it becomes obvious who they are. You also have said that you think the end will not take place before the end of your own lifetime, an idea probably also partly based on the fact that no group of anointed has yet become so obvious in our day that '10 men are taking hold of them' because they can see that God is with them.

One reason I responded with an entire thread on this was because this overall idea seemed too passive. It really would lead to the idea that unless some group of truly anointed were making it extremely obvious that they were right in some inspired kind of way, then all of us can just sort of wait until that changes. But Jesus seemed to say that preaching and converting others through making disciples of him was going to be the way in which this message about God and his Kingdom through Christ would reach to the ends of the earth. To me that seems quite different.

Also, just my opinion, but I don't think we need anything except to keep our eyes open and see the works of various Christian brotherhoods to know whether or not Jehovah's spirit is acting upon them. By their works you will recognize them. It's not that works result in our salvation, but that the "works" of the spirit result in "love, joy, peace, patience, etc., etc." If our hearts desire Christian association with loving, peaceful, patient persons, we would find such ones to associate with. The nuances of doctrine (like "who is the Jew with the 10 men at his robes?") is completely unimportant. But a doctrine of peace that results in them not going to war with each other would seem quite important. Personally, I would not wait for a group that explains Scripture better than the next group. That has always just been a "sub-religion" much like the philosophies of the Greeks that they thought was real wisdom.

Scripture is already there for us. We don't have to understand it any further than what was already put there. In our hearts we know enough about Jesus parables just by reading the overall message. We have no further need of prophets, and voices, and tongues, and inspiration, because Jehovah has already put the basic message in our hearts from what inspiration has already written. This is one of the reasons that the book of Revelation was almost voted out of the 66 book canon. It was written in such a way that it took away from the idea that we need nothing further to be written to us (by future interpreters). Yet even this book exercises the depth of our Christian faith if we remember that it should not distract from the idea that the end could come at any time, and that we are not waiting for specific events to happen, but that it can happen at any time. 

On that topic, remember that Jesus said the end could happen at any time, and it would be a surprise, as if without warning of any kind. Of course, he also made it clear that it could happen at any time immediately after the Roman armies sacked Jerusalem, which basically happened in 70 CE. Your own view makes it easy to put this off, by waiting for an additional sign. Paul did mention an additional sign prior to 70 when he said that we weren't waiting for a group of semi-inspired anointed to watch for, but that there would be a semi-inspired powerful force that would have to come first. This kept the Thessalonians from getting too excited about the end coming when 70 CE had not even come yet.

He told them that we needed nothing to be written to us about the times and seasons of the parousia because it would come as a surprise, like a thief in the night, even though we are "awake" enough so that it will not overcome us as victims the way a thief overcomes his victim. He reminded the Thessalonians that people could be taking note of peace and security, and therefore it would be a complete surprise. But he also told them to prepare for the possibility that they would sleep in death before Jesus returned. But that semi-inspired or pseudo-inspired powerful force to watch for apparently turned out to be the many anti-Christs that John spoke of in his letters. Paul had put it in "apocalyptic terms" and I think the book of Revelation even more so:

I'll end on this because it's long, but I think it's curious that Paul's only warning sign prior to the parousia was about a man of lawlessness (the apostasy already at work) and a counteracting force of restraint that was almost out of the way. (This was apparently the apostles, but some could argue that it extends to our day as the apostleship continues to be represented by men governing the congregation.)

• (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) . . .However, brothers, concerning the presence [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

John, possibly the original apostle by that name, apparently outlived the year 70 CE, and he still says something similar, but his solution is that all of them were anointed and all of them therefore have no need of someone or some group to continue teaching them, because the anointing itself teaches all of them the truth.

(1 John 2:18-27) 18 Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort. 20 And you have an anointing from the holy one, and all of you have knowledge. 21 I write you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie originates with the truth. 22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. But whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, what you have heard from the beginning must remain in you. If what you have heard from the beginning remains in you, you will also remain in union with the Son and in union with the Father. 25 Furthermore, this is what he himself promised us—the life everlasting. 26 I write you these things about those who are trying to mislead you. 27 And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but the anointing from him is teaching you about all things and is true and is no lie.. . .

[JW Insider]

10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

While I find NO academic understanding here, I believe, you understanding where the information comes from kind of shows the ignorance of having to explain to you, that of what is already known to you.

I'm not sure why you think it's such a big deal to repeatedly say there is no academic understanding here. You began repeating that idea (under other names, I think) when someone implied that it would be OK to make longer quotes from other sources for education purposes, based on common practice for commentaries on other person's writings  under 'fair use' law.

But that's not what this is about. It's been a common practice of yours to sometimes just dump a bunch of commentary from various places, but without any comment of your own as to whether you think it even applies to your own view or someone else's view. Often it is contradictory to the Watchtower's view (as it was this time), which is why I think you either hadn't even read it, or at least why you didn't comment on any of it yourself. It seemed pretty academic, but you didn't give a source for any other readers here, who might not have been able to tell whether it came from a Watchtower source or a Christendom source or some other academic source. And for someone who is bent on repeating there is no academic understanding here, it makes no sense that you had just done this earlier in this same thread with the words:

On 6/5/2019 at 12:03 AM, BillyTheKid46 said:

Scholarly view:

(4:7) [etc., etc. . . .]

Of course, you didn't give any reference or attribution to that either, and you were addressing someone else, not me. And by the way, I didn't just automatically know where the references came from; I had to look it up.

10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The fact that you have to express a dense rant on the subject only shows where I’m going with my questions that you are side stepping.

I didn't sidestep the questions, I only indicated to you why the questions, as stated, didn't mean much of anything. As a reminder, here were the questions I "sidestepped":

20 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

What fundamental aspect could be drawn from the following?

20 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

In comparison, or fundamentally,  is there a difference with prophecy?

In between those two questions, you merely copied information from "Christendom's" commentaries without any context. Those don't even sound like legitimate questions to me. They sound like questions from someone trying to imitate post-modern pretentiousness and who thinks vagueness sounds impressive.

10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The objective is to show readers the blatant disregard you actually have with the watchtower core doctrine while still trying desperately to impress who knows, with citations you personally don’t believe in.

Wow! And did anyone mention your propensity for projection?

Your resources did not agree with the Watchtower's view. You yourself have seemed to question the Watchtower's stated view on who makes up the Body of Christ, or else you just wanted to be disagreeable. Your own questions and statements often sound something like this:

• BTK: Why do you say that only the anointed are in the Body of Christ? That's untenable and seals your fate as an apostate!
• Response: But the Watchtower says that only the anointed are in the Body of Christ and I believe this is correct.
• BTK Then why do you say the anointed are not in the Body of Christ? That's untenable and seals your fate as an apostate!

10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Yet, you fail to see how you copy/paste Watchtower Literature, that's priceless 😉

I don't see how I have failed to see that I copy/paste from Watchtower literature. I actually show the reference each time to show exactly where I copy/pasted from, and to make it clear that I am posting from Watchtower literature. See the difference?

[Witness]

On whether an anointed one is inspired, I just though I'd comment.  All anointed ones are inspired by God’s Spirit.  It is how they are “called” when anointed.  Eph 2:20; 4:4,7,8,11,12; 2;6; 4;8     They could not be the “dwelling” of His Spirit without such inspiration. 1 Cor 3:9,16  Whether they facilitate that gift by obeying the Spirit’s direction, is up to them.  Isa 64:8; Matt 25:1; 1 John 2:20,27; 1 Cor 10:12; Rev 2:5

Anointed ones can lose God’s Spirit and acquire the spirit of Satan by falling out of their promise with God, and entering a pact made with the Liar.  From them, come “demonic expressions”; exhalations of spirit from Satan. Isa 28:15,7,8   So, anointed are either inspired by the Spirit of truth from God and Christ, or by the spirit of lies from Satan.  It isn’t obvious by the way they look or what they accomplish in this physical realm, but by what they teach.  Matt 7:20  For the GB to say they are not "inspired" by God's Spirit, is in actuality, in my opinion,  a true statement.

Inspired by God’s Spirit:

Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. ¹⁷ But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. (“congregations”)   You will be brought before governors (GB) and kings (elders) for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. ¹⁹ But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; ²⁰ for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.  Matt 10:16-20 

Inspired by Satan’s Spirit

1 Tim 4:1,2 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, ² speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron 

2 Pet 2:1-3 - But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. ² And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. ³ By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber. 

Rev 13:11 - Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.

Rev 16:13,14 - And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. ¹⁴ For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth (Rev 1:5; 5:10) and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

The conflict between both:

Eph 6:10-13 Finally, become strong in the Lord and in the might of his strength.  Put on the full armor of God, so that you may be able to stand against the stratagems of the devil,  because our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.  Because of this, take up the full armor of God, in order that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand.

Satan attacks us "in the evil day" of Armageddon (Rev 20:7-9)  through inspiring those who buy into his lying offers of authority and power, which is enacted over the "kings of the earth", (those under the New Covenant Gal 4:22-24,26) and all those with them.  Luke 4:7; Rev 13:5-7; Rev 12:15

 

 

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

Believers will accept the claim that the writers and books (later collected in the Bible) were inspired by God.

The question is: Are people who collected the old records of these letters and books, were inspired for this work of gathering/collecting ?? Did they need to be inspire for this collecting?? 

Next question is: People said that Roman Catholic Pope was made decision what will be gathered and put in one book, the Bible. Did he been inspired by god while did it? 

Third question is: Did they found all letters and writings? What is with other writings that pope did not want to put in Bible? Are those writings uninspired?

Fourth question is? Do JW feel how "new scriptures, new instructions" they expect to receive, is in future, after Armageddon? Or  it would be possible for such records to appear at this time? If this will be in future, do they feel how such new writings will be made by inspired individuals or group? And how will/would this individuals or group to prove that they are inspired? (According to GB self claim, they are not inspired. So, by this, we can conclude how such new writings and instructions are not possible to have today. And because, supposedly,  they will go to heaven before Armageddon, in the New World some other people, Not Them as Anointed Channel, will make/write new instructions. But that is OK, because error and uninspired instructions can be written by other people, too, not only by GB). 

 

[Witness]

18 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Therefore, what makes you think you can judge what God has given?

You must be talking about the GB as the “faithful slave” sent by God.  Can you actually prove to me that God has given these men to us to follow?

Did Jesus ever lie?  If he sent anyone in his name, and told them to “remain” in him because without him they could nothing, would they lie or would they speak the Word of God, which is truth - always?    He is the way, the truth, the life.  Would those he sends teach any sort of doctrine that failed or had to be totally discarded with a new one?  How many times has doctrine flipped from one belief to another, and many times a new belief is actually one from years past, in the step of doctrinal change?  John 15:4,5; John 14:6

To say that the leaders of the WT are led by Holy Spirit calls Jesus a liar; subsequently, it calls the Almighty God, a liar.  The only one who can take a lie and soften its blow with the insulation of false promises, by calling it a “belief clarified”, is Satan, who “inspires” those who seek out his earthly gifts. 2 Cor 11:13,14

Anyone can see these things if they choose to.  It depends on one's heart’s desire to find those who speak pure truth from Christ.  Within the organization are hundreds of anointed ones who are silenced.  That should ring a bell with all JWs, that something is amiss in the Watchtower.    If one of those anointed speaks up about teachings that conflict with WT doctrine, and is heard, I guarantee they will not survive inside its walls.  That is the sign of a wicked slave in power.  Matt 24:48-51

Jesus spoke up for truth against the power and teaching of the Pharisees.  Shouldn't every one of us speak up for truth, regardless of who has placed authority over us?  

"Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life (through disfellowshipping) for me and for the gospel will save it.36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? 37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”  Mark 8:34-38

I am not ashamed to speak up for Christ and truth.  I, and so many others, have done so.  As scripture points out, your wicked slave cannot tolerate being called a liar.  Rev 13:11,14-17

It is a ruse, set against the anointed under the "woman" New Covenant, during these last days.  I wish all of you could see this.  Rev 12:15; 2 Thess 2:9-12;1 Thess 5:3   

Matt 13:36-43

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Oh Well! I guess this should prove to TOM, it doesn't matter how you treat people, they will revert to their own behavioral tactics. Therefore, not worthy of being treated differently.

I’m just sitting here minding my own business, thinking up new insults for The Librarian and our “house” discreet slave, JTR.

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

This would depend on the motive of a person.

 

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Papacy decided to use scripture as a tool, not as an inspiration for devotion. They decided to exalt themselves rather than God.

You concluded how Pope's motive was bad. Still we have open question: Do you need to be inspired (or motivated) by God in collecting holy manuscripts/copies and in decision to make Holy Book with this collection?