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JOHN BUTLER

I'm worried about a 'brother' recently reinstated spending too much time with my grandchildren

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JOHN BUTLER -
James Thomas Rook Jr. -
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1976

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OK, I know some people will not like this and they will call it gossip but my wife and I are worried about it so it needs to aired out.

We have one daughter that is still a JW. i will call her H.  She is married to a non JW. She has 4 children.

This daughter does not seem to recognise any dangers at all about her children. She invites anyone to her house without really knowing who they are or anything about their past.

3 of the children are girls and they attend ballet and tap dance lessons. They are only young, the oldest being around 8 years old. 

Today they were in a performance /show in Exeter, a biggish show that their teacher was putting on for all parents, grandparents, etc. 

I wasn't allowed to go of course as I'm a 'naughty boy' that left the Org.

My wife went to the show and was surprised to find two 'brothers' there.

One of the 'brothers' is a young single Elder and the other 'brother' is an old man that has recently been reinstated and moved into Honiton congregation.  

This older man frequently visits H and her daughters at their home and the girls call him Uncle Phil. He seems very 'friendly' toward the girls.

H does not know where this 'brother' is from but he is now part of the Honiton Congregation which H and her children attend, here in Devon. 

It seems strange to me that this man has just arrived at Honiton Congregation and just been reinstated. My wife says he has a London accent. 

If I were still a JW I would ask him bluntly why he was disfellowshipped and where he is from, but of course I cannot do that now.

I have his full name, so is there any way i can run a check on him ? 

Should i contact an Elder at Honiton Congregation and tell them of the concern my wife and I have ? 

If this 'brother' had been involved in a child abuse accusation would they have told H about it so that she could be on her guard ? 

Some on here may think I'm just trying to cause trouble, but my wife came home this evening and is looking very worried. 

It seems that H had invited both 'brothers' to the meal afterward and my wife felt unhappy about the whole situation. 

TTH will probably bring out the rule book again and say 'it never happens', but child abuse does happen and needs to be looked for all the time. 

Our daughter H seems to have no idea about the situations that have taken place, and in honesty she doesn't want to know. So how can my wife warn her ?  

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Our daughter H seems to have no idea about the situations that have taken place, and in honesty she doesn't want to know. So how can my wife warn her ?  

Say ‘the guy might be a pervert. Remember the warning everyone got at the 2017 Regional convention?’

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8 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I have his full name, so is there any way i can run a check on him ? 

Sure ... just type his full name and anything else you know about him into google, and for about $30, you can know almost everything there is to know about him.

Be careful which firm you choose ... about 60% of them are scams.

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Just now, TrueTomHarley said:

Say ‘the guy might be a pervert. Remember the warning everyone got at the 2017 Regional convention?’

He might be, he might not be. But I'm just grandad that is left on the sidelines and I suppose it looks as if I'm bitter about it. 

So do I just mind my own business, or is it my business ? 

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30 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So do I just mind my own business, or is it my business ? 

Everybody that is a busybody does not think so ... in their own minds.

Was it Shakespeare in "Henry V" that told of King Henry walking among his soldiers in disguise, at night, to listen to their campfire talk, in the unwarranted invasion of France, and one soldier said to another " I hope our Sovereign is doing the right thing, as we have to obey him, but he will answer to God for what we do, here" (heavily paraphrased from memory ....)

Or, as Yoda said "There is only do ...or do not.   There is no try!"

(My advice is ...)  Either GO TO WAR ... OR RETIRE FROM THE FIELD !

If you do decide to go to war ... be prepared to lose, badly.

THERE IS ONLY ONE EXCUSE FOR BEING A "BUSYBODY" !

..... if you win.

 

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9 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If this 'brother' had been involved in a child abuse accusation would they have told H about it so that she could be on her guard ? 

Yes. 

But there is absolutely  nothing wrong with your wife approaching your daughter with concerns about this 'brother', as suggested by TTH:

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Say ‘the guy might be a pervert. Remember the warning everyone got at the 2017 Regional convention?’

 

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11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

My other considered opinion ( and it's worth every cent you paid for it ...) John, is that you have a SERIOUS, almost fatal  deficiency of John Wayne movies.

Didn't JW turn to a child, in one of his films and say  ' You're what this war is all about ' 

And something like ' Get off ya horse n drink ya milk'  

In my second marriage we had a son and I almost named him Wayne, as my name being John, John (and) Wayne.

But i thought it was too much Hero worship which we are told is a sin. :) 

 

 

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This is apocryphal but I think true, since there are not many degrees of separation:

Many years ago waiting for the pioneer meeting to get underway, some of us young pioneers started commenting on nightmare scenarios—like witnessing to super-patriot John Wayne. He probably would sic his Rottweilers on us!

The circuit overseer interjected that it was not so. In a circuit he had once served, a brother had called upon John Wayne, who could not have been more kind or more respectful, even saying that he knew that what they had was true, but that he would never be able to live up to it.

Now (and this is my speculation years later) where could he have gotten such a good impression of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

I played in a movie called Ring of Fear …..This was where I got the Jag. The guy wrote and directed the picture had problems, but John Wayne who produced it, never gave up on his friends. Duke was having a bad time, going through a divorce, and they needed to fix the script. So they're thinking who could do it, and someone says, Spillane's a writer, he could do it. Now I'm playing ME in the picture, for pete's sake. They called me up in Newburgh on Wednesday, I'm already back home across the country, and said come back and fix it. So I took my Wagner records, flew West, and worked Friday, Saturday, Sunday. They set me up in a beautiful hotel suite, and I worked. …..And they wanta pay me for the script but I won't take nothing for that, it was a favour. But Duke says, 'he was looking at those Jags in the lot next to the Cock and Bull'. One night, I'm back in Newburgh, it's snowing, and out in front of my house is this beautiful Jag with a red ribbon around it, and a note that says 'Thanks, Duke'.” - Mickey Spillane

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

Over here in the U.S. we have a national sex offender list that anyone can see for free. It's a list of men or women who have raped children. Do you have the same there?

 

I don't know, but I'd need more info on him like his previous address I think. His name is quite basic so could be many men with the same name. I don't know his age either other than my wife says he's old and looks around 60. 

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5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

One night, I'm back in Newburgh, it's snowing, and out in front of my house is this beautiful Jag with a red ribbon around it, and a note that says 'Thanks, Duke'.” - Mickey Spillane

Love Never Fails.

... and you don't need three days and 20 videos to explain it.

Remember the Elders that counseled Job for three days?  After three days they had said NOTHING of value, worth recording in what later became Scripture.

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I don't know, but I'd need more info on him like his previous address I think. His name is quite basic so could be many men with the same name. I don't know his age either other than my wife says he's old and looks around 60. 

If you are still planning to "go to war", you will need more resolve, grit, and ACTION. 

Make some guesses and follow up until they fall apart, or are verified.

COMPILE information.

To do that, first you have TO GO GET IT.

Perhaps your wife will (because of your circumstances ..) will have to make the phone calls.

 

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27 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Stop being so American James, not everyone on this planet Earth wants 'to go to war'. 

It's about being as cautious as serpents I thought  :) Not being a rogue elephant. 

... that's why Americans, with their bodies and their blood, with fire and steel, had to save your English butts TWICE, from the Germans.

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1 minute ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Why not ask James for his scoped firearm and stand watch on the doorstep 24/7 to satisfy your insanity. Then it won’t be hearsay gossip, it will become delusion of grandeur.

.... my scoped rifle is a back-packable breakdown .22 caliber, with a range of about 200 yards.

YOURS is a scoped .50 calibre sniper rifle, capable of shooting 4 miles, and with an effective range of about 3/4 of a mile.

..... reminds me of two Brothers with the same names, on an Ohio bridge, peeing into the river below.

JTR: "Wow, that water is really cold!"

BTK: "Yeah, and deep, too!"

 

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15 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Since you think everyone at the Org is a potential pedophile, what does it matter, what your opinion is about someone still in the Org. To you, they are all guilty. That would include Anna, Comfortmypeople, Melinda, Outta here, James, JWinsider, BTK, TTH, by association for being part of the Org in your corrupt view.

Yet, its funny how some within agree with opposers.

You seem to forget however, with the word “IF” that seems to act as an oxymoron on how you view things.

Why not ask James for his scoped firearm and stand watch on the doorstep 24/7 to satisfy your insanity. Then it won’t be hearsay gossip, it will become delusion of grandeur.

Maybe you can invite James when you start to drool and fall asleep, why be the only lunatic there.

 

 

Quote BTK " Since you think everyone at the Org is a potential pedophile..."

I think everyone on this Earth has the potential to be a pedophile or a murderer, or a thief and much more. 

I think the Elders that hide the pedophiles are just as guilty as the pedophiles themselves. 

I think the GB / directors / bosses / Lawyers of W/t & JW Org are just as guilty for creating the mechanisms for hiding pedophiles in the W/t and JW Org. 

I think that anyone inside or outside the W/t & JW Org that hides pedophiles or hides information about pedophiles in the W/t & JW Org, are just as guilty of the Child Sexual Abuse in those organisations. 

And I've said on this blog many times I TRUST NO HUMAN. I would put more trust in animals. 

Quote BTK "Yet, its funny how some within agree with opposers."

Billy I'm sure you know that a lot of people are only in those crap organisations (W/t & JW Org) because they have too much to lose, materially, emotionally, mentally.  They have families, 'friends', businesses, status, position, pride, and much more, and it would all come tumbling down if they had the guts to leave the Org / W/t. 

Do you really think there are 8.5 million servants of JW Org ? Dream on Billy. There may be 8.5 million in that 'club' physically but they are not all in it spiritually.  If you go on 'other' websites you will know that. 

Many witnesses openly admit that they are physically in / mentally-spiritually out. Well I suppose it's a good way to stay up to date with the latest lies from the GB. 

But you and James seem so violent in your minds and your words... 

I do not have to kill anyone to protect my grandchildren. :)  I do have some mental balance, though I don't know why. 

A person does not have to go to war to see violence and perversion and emotional destruction. Many people including myself have seen and felt enough of it. That's why i don't want to see it happen to innocent children. 

But the GB / W/t / JW Org / Elders, do not care enough yet. 

And I do wonder by your comments BTK, if you are a p................................ 

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40 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

How dense is this comment since you are married to one. 😂

But like James mentioned elsewhere, don't insult the animals, they have enough problems with humans as it is.

Yes Billy I'm married to one, but I don't trust her and she knows that. 

The children know that I don't trust them either. 

i once wrote on my FB page :-

Which is worse : Love based on lies, or, Hate based on truth. 

You see Billy i am not you. I do not think like you. I do not act like you. I do not have the feelings / emotions like you. 

When you and others, begin to see other people, as OTHER people, not as people like you, then you and others may just start to begin to understand that not all of us live by the same rules.

You are trying to tell me I trust my wife because I'm married to her. Wrong. The trust died many years ago. 

I have no love for anyone, no trust in anyone. It does not mean that I hate people, it simply means I have no feelings for  them. 

I demand nothing, I expect nothing, therefore i no longer get disappointed by anyone. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

that's why Americans, with their bodies and their blood, with fire and steel, had to save your English butts TWICE, from the Germans.

@JOHN BUTLER, for all his nuttiness, is not a warlike person and does not follow war commentaries. 

If he did, he might point to the widely held British view that, with good guys and bad guys apparent from Day 1, the Americans hid their bodies and blood, cowered behind their fire and steel, allowed the Brits to be slaughtered wholesale, and only then, when they saw that it would not be enough, did they deign to lift a finger.

In both wars, supplying armaments to the Brits, though being too chicken to do anything more, they eventually drew attacks from the enemy determined to stop the flow, and only then did they reluctantly conclude that they could no longer let Britain do all the bloodletting.

If you are going to go Captain America on all of us here, you should at least modify your chest-thumping with these observations.

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3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:
5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

my scoped rifle is a back-packable breakdown .22 caliber, with a range of about 200 yards.

I believe we settled that my arms are NOT for self defense. I believe you mention that for yourself. I fear no man even unto death as you coward behind your weapon.

I will have to belatedly agree with you BTK ... a scoped 50 caliber sniper rifle, as you have admitting owning, but reticent to relate how you acquired it, is NOT a defensive weapon, except in warfare.

  It is obviously, to everyone who knows about such things, an OFFENSIVE weapon for preemptive strikes.

This claim of yours is new (please show evidence if I am wrong ...).

Here is the clincher: How often do you hunt game with your sniper rifle, and what have you bagged. If you do not have a truthful answer, you are living in a fantasy world of your own manufacture.

 

 

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... by the way ... my suppressed .22 cal. scoped rifle is ONLY used for target practice, and very limited self defense, if ever needed .... but I bought it to shoot out overhead street lights to blackout a neighborhood, for rescue attempts.

... but that is another story, from many years ago.

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@BillyTheKid46 Quote  " The irony, you attack the GB when your heart in no better than the soulless being you present, not just here but elsewhere. "

The difference being that i don't pretend to know the truth, and i don't want power over others. I don't make rules for others to follow. I do not mislead anyone as I do not try to 'take the lead' in any way. 

I do not pretend that i am the 'Faithful and discreet slave' of God through Christ. 

And I'm not frightened to admit that i have no love or trust in anyone. 

But then i don't hide pedophiles either, and I don't tell people how tight or loose their clothes should be. I don't make up rules about who can speak to who. I don't write magazines that tell deliberate lies about what God requires of us. I don't make up rules about the use of blood and then change those rules at a later date. 

I am only responsible for me. Your GB has made itself responsible for millions of people, but they have no proof that the responsibility is guided by God or Christ. 

Your GB has no love of people, only love of power over people. Your GB does not care about the victims of Child Sexual Abuse, they only care about 'their' money being spent in compensation. 

Your GB is prepared to sacrifice innocent lives to cover up the wickedness of the W/t and the JW Org.

Your GB 'cleans the outside of the dish or bowl, but leaves the inside full of disgusting things'.

And you Billy just worship your GB so much that you are completely blind to it all.

 

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18 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Billy I'm sure you know that a lot of people are only in those crap organisations (W/t & JW Org) because they have too much to lose, materially, emotionally, mentally. 

This is exactly how it was in the Jewish nation, per laws given to Moses, that serve as a last-ditch method of discipline.

 

18 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Many witnesses openly admit that they are physically in / mentally-spiritually out.

I had someone contact me via email, trying to get me going, saying he was one of them—physically in, but mentally out. And—here’s the kicker—he said that after he placed literature he would later return to warn the householder not to read it! Or if he did, not to act upon it. Now, just let me get a mental picture of how that might go down:

Why did he place literature in the first place? He is “a member of a controlling cult that monitors everything he does, and so he has no choice!”—I guess he would have to say something like that. And they “control” him by threatening to take his family away if he doesn’t follow every “command” that they issue! It is too late for him, but not too late for you, Mr. Householder. Run and save yourself!

Really? Could that truly be?

Look, if you want to present the picture that opposers are batsh*t crazy, I can’t think of a better way to do it. On Christmas Eve, he goes to homes to sing Christmas carols. On every other night, he goes to sing Hotel California: 

‘You can check in any time you like—but you can never leave!’

or House of the Rising Sun:

‘and it’s been the ruin of many a poor boy, and God, I know, I’m one’

or For What it’s Worth:

‘step out of line, the men come to take you away!’

Sheesh. People are crazy. Batsh*t crazy—pure and simple.

He also said, (with a hee hee hee) that he was one of thousands! Could that be? Or is his army like that of Gideon, making such a god-awful racket that they seem far larger than they really are? Or is it just him? Or is it not even him—look, going door to door for even the right reason is a challenge—but to go twice to say that you want to take back what you said the first time because you are actually an undercover guerrilla fighter—when the householder wasn’t all that interested in the first place? What kind of a nutcase could pull that off? 

No matter. I don’t run away from these things. I run toward them. I think of the Philippians verse: 

“True, some are preaching the Christ through envy and rivalry, but others also through goodwill. The latter are publicizing the Christ out of love...but the former do it out of contentiousness, not with a pure motive, for they are supposing to stir up tribulation....What then? [Nothing,] except that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being publicized, and in this I rejoice.” (1:15-18)

The object is to get the good news out there, and these unhinged nutcases only help the cause. To be sure, it is a strange way to get it out there, but it does get it out there. The whole program is strange, as I told one fellow trying to run a garage sale that no one was showing up for. Appear out of nowhere as a complete stranger and say you want to talk about God? Christians are a theatrical spectacle in all the earth, says Paul. Tell me about it.

Nor am I ashamed that there are so many “apostates.” I am proud of them. I consider them additional proof that what we have fulfills the Bible pattern. If we didn’t have any—that would be a test of my faith, for I would wonder why. There is no NT writer who does not deal with apostates. If they existed then, why would they not exist now? In fact, as we get closer to crunch time, you would expect them to be more numerous and virulent, and would wonder what was the problem if they were not.

To be sure, many Witnesses run away from these things—it has been the pattern. The time may come when they will tackle them head-on. Opponents are having their day in the sun—beyond all question they have thrust awkward, even disagreeable, aspects of JWs front and center on the world stage. I take my hat off to them. Well done! That does not mean that I admire them. It is more like when the Jurassic Park security chief says of the pterodactyl circling round to pounce on him, ‘Good girl!’ Then he was eaten alive amidst bloodcurdling screaming.

Will the beasts do the same this time? I think not. We are used to presenting the gem of the Christian way of life through it’s most appealing facet. Let us learn to present it through it’s least appealing one. It is the same gem. “The game is the same, it’s just up on another level.” That’s the song we should be singing—leave it to the lunatics to sing Hotel California!

The trick is not to try to sanitize the present. It is to de-sanitize the past. It is to say of Peter, ‘He is the most prominent one, and yet he cowers like an adolescent—his action can be (probably was) painted as hypocrisy on steroids! Once the Jewish Christians show up, he avoids company of the Gentile ones? And he is given the keys to the kingdom? Yes. That is how it is. God uses people despite phenomenal weaknesses. 

Transport it to the present day. We have people who did not avoid the trap that everyone else has fallen into. They wished not to advertise their dirty laundry—and to carry on as though they had none. They did it for perfectly understandable reasons—for fear of tarnishing the Name that they tried to stand proclaim. But they did it. The fact that they alone sought to investigate an evil in order to mete out discipline and protect other congregations does not matter.

They can ‘reform’ in the eyes of the reasonable world, and likely have done so even now, with various tweaks culminating in that May 2019 issue. But they will never ever reform enough in the eyes of their virulent detractors. At some point, perhaps they will take on detractors more openly—judiciously, and not so as to satisfy the detractors, which cannot be done, but to offer a defense of the Christian way to those whose ear the detractors have gained. This is what you want to be writing your books about, Greg Stafford, not arguing over the Trinity.

In other words, the things that detractors paint as sordid are exactly the traps that well-intentioned and imperfect people who are ‘insular’ (no part of the world) could be expected to fall into. We’ll learn, where necessary, to present the truth through this facet so easily spun as a negative. 

It is the same with disfellowshipping, which opposers (many of them disfellowshipped themselves) have made into a monster issue, and in this age where ‘victimization’ is all the rage, have thrust it into the public eye. Keep it there where it belongs. Don’t try to skulk away from it.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are a faith that adherents take seriously. If you don’t participate, even if you stop, that does not create ripples. If you turn 180 degrees and flame what your family holds most dear, that probably will. The scriptures “tell” congregation members what to do in that event. Leadership merely alerts to those scriptures & afterwards their job is done. It could be tweaked—has been already— but any competent leadership would know of the same verses & principles behind them. Most people will have little difficulty in accepting that if you persistently by word or deed refuse to conform to the standards of any group, you may find yourself out on your ear.

The malcontents who carry on that ‘if it is not perfect, it is filthy’ would not have lasted two minutes in the first century. They would have honed in on the ill doings of those Revelation 2 and 3 congregations and started screaming back then just as they are screaming now. 

And if they would not have lasted two minutes during the early days of the Christian congregation, they would not have lasted two seconds in the early days of the Jewish nation. Yes, yes, there are some things that are not exactly the same. But the similarities far outnumber the differences.

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

In other words, the things that detractors paint as sordid are exactly the traps that well-intentioned and imperfect people who are ‘insular’ (no part of the world) could be expected to fall into. We’ll learn, where necessary, to present the truth through this facet so easily spun as a negative. 

I was looking for an 80 percent up-vote emoji, (🤔?) but I gave you a full up-vote anyway because I think you have hit the target so well with several statements like the one I just re-quoted. I get the sense you are able to "aiming your blows so as not to be striking the air" and "not running aimlessly."

(1 Corinthians 9:24-27) 24 Do you not know that the runners in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win it. 25 Now everyone competing in a contest exercises self-control in all things. Of course, they do it to receive a crown that can perish, but we, one that does not perish. 26 Therefore, the way I am running is not aimlessly; the way I am aiming my blows is so as not to be striking the air; 27 but I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, so that after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow.

Of course, it's not about striking back at others' arguments, but how we continually train ourselves to keep the faith with so many obstacles about. One of the obstacles will always be our own human failings, and how we keep trying to fix these, to become the "approved" person we ought to be. We don't have to broadcast our personal failings, and most of us won't; so we might always give the appearance that we are more concerned about the failings of those around us. Most of the time, we watch how we walk, but there are times when we should give attention to the failings of those around us, and watch how they walk.

This is one of the reasons for this topic, because someone is concerned about the potential failings of another. To some it will look like paranoia, but some persons have a more protective and sometimes "hovering" sense. Reminds me of Jesus' words:  (Matthew 23:37) . . .how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it.

Those who have seen the evil in people up close and personally may actually have a keener "intuitive" sense of potential evil. Or perhaps that "intuitive" sense has been destroyed for the same reasons. I have no idea, so I am not trying to answer John directly on this topic.

But to follow up on Paul's words about how we fight the fine fight of the faith for ourselves, Jude shows how we must also watch out for obstacles set by others:

(Jude 3-13) . . .Beloved ones, although I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to urge you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones. 4 My reason is that certain men have slipped in among you who were long ago appointed to this judgment by the Scriptures; they are ungodly men who turn the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for brazen conduct and who prove false to our only owner and Lord, Jesus Christ. . . . 12 These are the rocks hidden below water at your love feasts while they feast with you, shepherds who feed themselves without fear; waterless clouds carried here and there by the wind; fruitless trees in late autumn, having died twice and having been uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea that cast up the foam of their own shame; stars with no set course, for which the blackest darkness stands reserved forever.

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17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I have no love for anyone, no trust in anyone.

Yikes. It's hard to believe it could be so "all or nothing." As you say, if we can't think like you, we won't really be able to understand. But it reminds me of a recent discussion about how God commanded "love" from the nation of Israel. They say you can't legislate love, but for some I suppose, even this idea can be a "tutor" leading to Christ. We go through the motions of love until we are responding the way a loving person responds, whether we think we have the same feelings most others do or not. For thousands of years, people have spoken this way about arranged marriages. It's the same part of Corinthians I just quoted from to Tom where the apostle Paul said:

(1 Corinthians 9:16-19) . . .Now if I am declaring the good news, it is no reason for me to boast, for necessity is laid upon me. Really, woe to me if I do not declare the good news! 17 If I do this willingly, I have a reward; but even if I do it against my will, I still have a stewardship entrusted to me. 18 What, then, is my reward? That when I declare the good news, I may offer the good news without cost, to avoid abusing my authority in the good news. 19 For though I am free from all people, I have made myself the slave to all, so that I may gain as many people as possible.

Sorry to second-guess, but I can just imagine that you would quickly focus on the expression "abusing my authority in the good news" and turn this into another comment about the GB. But my point is that we can also work alongside people we don't necessarily trust, and still accomplish some good. If and when we see them abuse their authority, we can point it out as Paul often did, but Paul also reminded the Corinthians here that it was OK for them to support (materially) some of those ministers who asked for material support, even though Paul wanted none of that for himself.

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@TrueTomHarley  Ok let's take one step at a time with your over long comment. Over long deliberately to deceive people, to try to take people away from the true points of my comment. Nice try Tom.

1. I quote " This is exactly how it was in the Jewish nation, per laws given to Moses, that serve as a last-ditch method of discipline."

No in the Jewish nation people were born into it, they did not volunteer themselves into it. A big difference. Hence I've said before, children should not be baptised, they should have to wait until they are 'adult' age, then it would be voluntary. 

When  a person volunteers themself to be a JW (gets baptised) they think, at the time, that they are 'giving their life to God'. But in truth they are joining the JWOrg /W/t / GB run club. However it is voluntary, not born into. Big difference. 

But once a person is in that 'club' they become ensnared. They are told not to mix with people 'in the world', not to do business with 'people in the world', always bo no part of that 'wicked world. So of course they build their whole world around the JW Org . W/t, GB.  Then they are trapped. All their eggs in one basket.  If they leave the 'club' they lose everything, in a sense.

However as I've found by leaving that 'club', it does not mean turning my back on God or Jesus Christ. 

2. Many witnesses openly admit that they are physically in / mentally-spiritually out.

You took this and tried to make a comedy out of it. It didn't work Tom.  It didn't work because so many people know that many JW's are not 'fully committed' to your GB and it's JW Org. I think it was James that said that many JW's don't even use the NWT bible. 

As for doing preaching hours, it only takes ½ an hour PER MONTH to put in a Monthly Report. 

3. Quote "There is no NT writer who does not deal with apostates. If they existed then, why would they not exist now? "

It is so easy for you, the Gb and the Org to use that silly word Apostates. I say silly because it loses its meaning by overuse. 

The NT writers suffered opposition from Jews that did not believe that Jesus was the Christ / Messiah,  or did not want to let go of the power they had. And from the Romans of course. However those 'writers' were inspired of God and could do works to PROVE it. 

What the GB / JW Org / W/t is suffering now is not opposition to God or Jesus Christ, it is opposition to false teachings, opposition to man made rules, opposition to Child Sexual abuse in the JW Org / w/t, opposition to the GB demanding that they are seen as the only 'Faithful and discreet slave',  opposition to oppression from Elders, get the picture. 

Your GB cannot prove that they have the authority to give themselves the position they do give themselves. (Remember your argument about proving the Trinity). They do not have WORKS to PROVE their authority.

Tom you should probably carry on writing fairy stories as you seem to live in that sort of a 'world', a dream world 

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@JW Insider  Quote "Those who have seen the evil in people up close and personally may actually have a keener "intuitive" sense of potential evil. Or perhaps that "intuitive" sense has been destroyed for the same reasons. I have no idea, so I am not trying to answer John directly on this topic."

In a nutshell. I suffered 3½ years of sexual abuse, physical abuse and emotional abuse in a Children's Home, from age 13 to 16½. It was suffer and keep quiet, or be moved into an Approved School, which i was assured was 10 times worse.  We didn't have sex education back then so i was very nieve, and I was under the 'care' of the council (local government) so could not just walk away from it. I could not report it to the police as they were all part of the same system and i would have been 'moved'.  

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Every once in a great while, you will find an excellent Doctor , who is exceptional, but he never went to medical school and does not have a license to practice.  Several movies have been made about this sort of thing, wither about doctors, policemen, and even airline pilots.

Take whatever lessons you want from this observation.

 

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If and when we see them abuse their authority, we can point it out as Paul often did, 

I like this. There were times when an Elder would give me a headache / chew my ear off I think is an expression, and i would simply say to him,  'Show me three scriptures to back up what you are saying, or go away'.  They would walk away.

One of the points regularly was not wearing a jacket and tie in hot weather. In my opinion neither God nor Christ demanded it. 

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

Did you tell him that?

No. His name came up yesterday in this thread or another ongoing one. It was many years that I emailed him to ask if he was actually a Witness, and he said then that he was and in good standing. I’ve no idea whether that is still the case.

His answer is different from mine when the malcontents on Twitter keep asking me whether I am a Witness or not, and I answer with “neither am I telling you by what authority I do these things.”

People are incredible. They think that they can slam you anonymously—and all that you stand for—and then expect you to be forthcoming with personal details upon request. “You yourself are saying it” is another answer that works well. 

They have pretty well decided that I am not, due to their own paranoia that if a Witness so much as strays one inch from “orders,” he is immediately drawn and quartered. I have said such things as: 

“I asked a similar question about the liar who represented himself on Twitter as Geoffrey Jackson (and Anthony Morris): ‘Is he really a Witness?’ It seemed like it should have been a very easy question to answer. So I asked him. He said that he was!”

and

If you go online to flame them, [JWs] while still claiming to be a Witness, you may have trouble. Drop the claim, and you can flame them all you want.

If you explode in rage at counsel not to get into cat fights, you may have trouble.

But if you write a book letting the air out of their complaints, will you? Time will tell.

Do you really truly in your paranoid heart of hearts, think that nobody knows of the book—when you are the first to decry them for sticking their nose everywhere?”

At such times, I link to the book, TrueTom vs the Apostates!”

The book itself alludes a few times to the question, such as:

And now I must face the music from my own side, and there may be some. His continual taunts at being “not allowed” were surely overdone, and it must have made him feel a little silly when I kept coming nonetheless, until he felt compelled to “not allow” me himself. Still, nobody here thinks it is the bee’s knees to engage with these characters, and I may hear about it. And they could be right. Maybe I am the yo-yo on the Jerusalem wall singing out just when Hezekiah is telling the troops to zip it. But I just couldn’t take it anymore.

The Witness organization cannot be expected to defend itself on social media, if on any media. It takes the scriptural view of Jesus at Matthew 11, noting that grumblers slam him no matter what he does, before finally saying, ‘Don’t worry about it,’ “wisdom is proved righteous by its works.” It is like David who kept mum as ‘all day long they muttered against him.’ ‘It is like the plowman who knows that if you look behind while plowing, the furrows get all flaky.’ They don’t do it. The common view of opposers is that the Witness headship is telling members what to do, while it cynically manipulates all from above. That view is wrong. They practice what they preach and they do it themselves. The organization headship cites Hebrews 13:7 about ‘imitating the faith of those who are taking the lead among you.’ They don’t go on social media at all. They prefer a less raucous channel, and content themselves with news releases at the website that inform but do not kick back at the critics.

It is scriptural. It is proper. But there is a downside. By staying mum on specifics, essentially our enemies get to define us to the news media who refer to a cover statement about “abhorring child abuse” as “boiler-plate” and then go to former members who will eagerly fill their ears with accounts that we could counter by adding context but don’t. What’s a reporter to do? He goes to who fills his ears.

It will fall upon the Witness journalist to do it, if it is to be done, and there aren’t many of them. If fourteen years of blogging, not shying from controversial things, does not qualify me to take a shot at it, what does? If you are in a spiritual paradise, or even a vacation paradise, you do not have to concern yourself with removing the trash. It may be even dangerous to do so, because there is broken glass and used syringes. It’s not for everyone, and maybe for no one. But I thought I’d give it a go, and I at last got under this fellow’s skin, the big baby.

This was in the chapter ‘

    Hello guest!

Of course, I am using Greg as a pretext to launch my own diatribe. I have no idea of where he is now (as I didn’t then), or whether he is friend or foe. Hope he doesn’t mind. Most authors enjoy publicity—almost any publicity will do, and mine of him is not bad. It is merely inconclusive.

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

But my point is that we can also work alongside people we don't necessarily trust, and still accomplish some good.

You mean your work (as single, not as we)  can accomplish some good ?  :))

I think how in this complexity of Trust Issue (on various fields, in various places and with various people) things are in so wide specter of colors with much/lot, lot of white and black too.  

But, main thing is thus, if you not trust someone , or have lost your trust in someone ... wall is very big/high.

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You mean your work (as single, not as we)  can accomplish some good ?  :))

I think how in this complexity of Trust Issue (on various fields, in various places and with various people) things are in so wide specter of colors with much/lot, lot of white and black too.  

But, main thing is thus, if you not trust someone , or have lost your trust in someone ... wall is very big/high.

 work alongside people we don't necessarily trust. Children do it all the time. Some people say Look at those children playing together', but when you look closely you will see children playing alongside each other. Each child is doing their own thing.   

The secret is not to get emotional about it. Life can be very practical. Being retired I can choose what I do and when I do it. My wife chooses what she will do and when she will do it. Sometimes we choose to go places together. We share the housework. She cooks I wash up. She visits her mum and the children, i work on the cars and do the garden :) 

None of it involves trust or love. It is just practical living. 

As for people outside, I have no need to trust anyone, I'm quite independent at the moment.  Mixing with people does not involve trust. I go to auctions to view and sometimes buy,  i converse with the staff and others there but it does not involve trust. 

Think deeply for a while, how many things truly involve trust? Most things in life are just practical or natural things. 

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@TrueTomHarley  Um, the GB / org do not do social media, ok. But they do broadcasts.

But I'm sure I've seen evidence that when people want to talk to the GB face to face, to ask questions ect, the GB have refused interviews and conversations.  The GB seem to live behind locked gates. So how is a person to express their feelings or ask questions ?  Obvious answer is social media.  

Plus, many of us feel the need to warn other people about the dangers of the JW Org. Where is better than social media ? 

My FB page about Ex JW's has just reached :-  You've just reached 900 Page likes. Good job!

It's not a lot but i don't promote it and hardly upload anything to it. People are finding it. People are talking about it, so it does a small amount of good. If I can give a few people a little information about the problems in the JW Org the n I'm happy to do just that. 

We can agree on this one thing  “wisdom is proved righteous by its works.” Hence its easy to see that the GB are not wise in a spiritual way.  Of course they may have the 'wisdom of the world' with their high paid Lawyers doing their dirty work for them, just as the Romans did the dirty work for the religious leaders of the Jews, buy killing Jesus. 

Quote The common view of opposers is that the Witness headship is telling members what to do,.... 

Tom, do you really forget that most people you call 'opposers' are actually Ex JW's ?  They have been there, witnessed it all. It's not hearsay it's real experiences. You know, more real than those 'experiences' they do on the 'platform'.  Who are you trying to fool  Tom ? Yourself maybe. 

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You've just reached 900 Page likes. Good job!

This may actually mean 900 people, but I would not get too excited. Some of these characters have been known to press the like key as frequently as Skinner box rats, working themselves into a lather and eventually dropping out of sheer exhaustion.

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3 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This may actually mean 900 people, but I not get too excited. Some of these characters have been known to press the like key as frequently as Skinner box rats, working themselves into a lather and eventually dropping out of sheer exhaustion.

I did say it's not a lot but it's a few people looking and reading what's there.  i can hardly put on a 'broadcast' can I ? 

And i can't start up a magazine, and I'm not up to writing a book, like you.  However there is enough news media /reports out there now thanks to all the efforts of victims, ex-JW's and others that have made things known earthwide. And whether you agree or not, i think it has made the GB / Org make changes. Changes that would not otherwise have been made. And on my 'travels' here and elsewhere (many will roam about) I have found out much more than I originally knew. It has been and still is a great learning curve.  

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35 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And whether you agree or not, i think it has made the GB / Org make changes. 

I do agree. Or at least, I do not deny.

If opponents want to take credit, why not give it to them? Everything in life is action/reaction. If this is one of the same, they can rightly pat themselves on the back.

I acknowledged the point here: (I also posted this on the forum, but it is just so easier to find it again on my own site):

    Hello guest!

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5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I’ve no idea whether that is still the case.

nope, left in 2007

 

In 2007, Greg G. Stafford officially disassociated from the Watchtower Society, the official name of the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

He continues to refer to himself as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and continues to defend the religion’s unique teachings — but also addresses what he considers to be doctrines and practices for which, in his view, there is no biblical support, but which are nevertheless taught by the Watchtower Society.

Such dissent is not possible within the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, which refers to itself as the “faithful and discreet slave’ organization” 

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3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

My FB page about Ex JW's has just reached :-  You've just reached 900 Page likes. Good job!

When @JW Insider reveals a matter that would otherwise remain confidential, do you rush straight to your keyboard and tell your 900 friends?

And when you do, do you spin it as I have seen you spin it so many times before? He makes clear that he regards as a rare occurrence whatever he reveals, and you spin it as though it is business as usual among Jehovah’s Witnesses?

On your Facebook page, do you also post the background that you have bravely posted  here, background that accounts for your extreme sensitivity on the subject:

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

In a nutshell. I suffered 3½ years of sexual abuse, physical abuse and emotional abuse in a Children's Home, from age 13 to 16½. It was suffer and keep quiet, or be moved into an Approved School, which i was assured was 10 times worse.  We didn't have sex education back then so i was very nieve, and I was under the 'care' of the council (local government) so could not just walk away from it. I could not report it to the police as they were all part of the same system and i would have been 'moved'.  

It doesn’t disqualify you from speaking. A victim statement is these days considered an essential part—even the highlight—of any trial. Did you make it when the opportunity was ripe? Did your testimony send school and/or government perpetrators  to jail? I hope you had that opportunity and I hope you came to enjoy some sense of justice because of it.

I also hope it is the case that you were not denied that opportunity/justice somehow, and so you are taking it out on people that have nothing whatsoever to do with your tragic past.

At any rate, it is a serious question. Just as a professional can be expected to display their credentials, do you display your ‘credentials’ that give you a special sensitivity to the crime? Do you also make clear that your hair-trigger sensitivity on this issue has nothing to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses?

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2 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

He...continues to defend the religion’s unique teachings — but also addresses what he considers to be doctrines and practices for which, in his view, there is no biblical support, but which are nevertheless taught by the Watchtower Society.

In other words, he wants the faith to become a museum piece. He wants it to be a fine support system for people as they pursue other goals.

Ah, Greg, I didn’t even know ye

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If I was you, TTH, I would worry less about Gregg G. Stafford's efforts to turn Jehovah's Witnesses' life, culture, and theology into museum pieces, and more about the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses doing just that.

The efforts of the GB cause millions of people to "come into the Truth", but they also chase millions of people away, after they do.

It's like a person who makes his fortune in New York City, and finds that the City and State do not consider him to be a citizen, as much as they consider him a cash cow.

There is nothing more portable than people with money who are tired of being treated badly by State and local governing bodies, and when they find they have no voice at all to protest this treatment, they realize that they can vote with their feet, and take their wallets with them, leaving the States and Cities to become museum pieces in a slow, tragic death spiral. 

Detroit is a classic example ...one of many.

The same is becoming more and more true about Jehovah's Witnesses, who often, unless they are mindless sycophants,  chafe and tire of the uninspired and erroneous, and heavy handed (in a silk glove) treatment they get in pursuing equity and Justice, and Truth.

So ... they take the Truth they have with them, and their wallets with them, like spilled gold dust disappearing  through cracks in the floor.

They too ... vote with their feet ... and their wallets ... leaving the Organization to be surrounded with sycophants, admiring their Telly Awards, and cartoon evangelizers.

"We have seen the Enemy" .... and He is Us"   -   Pogo

 

( The reason I stay, is I have a very high pain tolerance, and expect nothing from anybody ... and $30 every few months  is all I can afford, and I allocate that to "local needs".)

 

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

They too ... vote with their feet ... and their wallets

If he sells a lot of books for the prices he asks, it was a significant loss for the brothers. I should hire him as my business advisor. (The batsh*t crazy fellow who said he placed literature and then returned to caution against reading it said of my books: “out of your 4 books....you have given away more than you have sold, lets leave that there (how do i know that?)” 

“Possibly because the two with the most obvious appear plainly say that they are free,” I replied. 

Maybe I was too hard on him. I don’t even know him. I felt a little mean just after I posted what I did. Maybe I should regard him as a noble fellow whose conscience is just too pure to allow himself to be among people who can sully theirs working with imperfection.

I didn’t even explain what I meant by ‘he wants to see the faith become a museum piece.’ I am inventing a picture of what I think he must be like, based on the few factoids I know of him, and deciding that I do not like him at all. Maybe I should not spin him at all as just another malcontent as was a dime a dozen during Moses’ time and that of the apostles who spins his disgruntlement as ‘taking the high road.’

It’s not personal. If he doesn’t represent the type of person I mean, someone else does.

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Maybe I was too hard on him. I don’t even know him. I felt a little mean just after I posted what I did. Maybe I should regard him as a noble fellow whose conscience is just too pure to allow himself to be among people who can sully theirs working with imperfection.

If I have a right to expect perfection from others ..... they have a right to expect it from me.

And I KNOW, I am a Barbarian.

 

Of course ... there ARE limits .......

Watchtower Lawyers in Hell 2 .jpg

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It’s not personal. If he doesn’t represent the type of person I mean, someone else does.

I have never communicated with Greg Stafford in any way, although I did communicate several times with one of his friends and associates, Rolf Furuli. Furuli indicated that Stafford's NT Greek is excellent and that he writes meticulously on the topic of Trinity. I never had any interest in engaging Trinitarians because I think it's a "done deal." So there's really nothing left to talk about. At Bethel, someone had to do some research on Trinity, and managed to find some fairly new information that could be related to John 1:1 from Philo. It was the last time I ever showed any interest in it, because there is just so much out there, but it's all so repetitious.

*** w85 12/15 p. 25 “The Word Was With God, and the Word Was . . . ”? ***
In 1984 there appeared in English a translation from German of a commentary by scholar Ernst Haenchen (Das Johannesevangelium. Ein Kommentar). It renders John 1:1: “In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and divine [of the category divinity] was the Logos.”—John 1. A Commentary on the Gospel of John Chapters 1-6, page 108, translated by Robert W. Funk.
Philo has therefore written: the λόγος [Logos] means only θεός (‘divine’) and not ὁ θεός (‘God’) since the logos is not God in the strict sense. . . . In a similar fashion, Origen, too, interprets: the Evangelist does not say that the logos is ‘God,’ but only that the logos is ‘divine.’ In fact, for the author of the hymn [in John 1:1], as for the Evangelist, only the Father was ‘God’ (ὁ θεός; cf. 17:3); ‘the Son’ was subordinate to him (cf. 14:28). But that is only hinted at in this passage because here the emphasis is on the proximity of the one to the other.”

A German-speaking brother translated that portion in 1981, because the book was only out in German at that time. I think it's an excellent explanation of John 1:1. I'm curious now if Greg Stafford uses it in his books.

I see he has several different books in several versions on a website here:

    Hello guest!

That same site also has Rolf Furuli's book about Bible Translation selling on it, right next to Stafford's book: "Jehovah's Witnesses Defended." Made me think that Stafford might still be a JW, because I'm pretty sure Rolf Furuli still is. Haven't spoken to Furuli in several years now, although he sent me his books for free. I sent money anyway, but it was a nice gesture.

To the chagrin of some here, I have already told of brothers in the Writing Department, and even a few Governing Body members, who didn't fully accept 1914 (including GB members: Chitty, Swingle, Schroeder, Sydlik, R.Franz). For those who know the background discussions going on at the time --actually even since the late 1960's-- that might seem understandable. But another member of the Writing Department told me something that was less believable. He says that in the 1990's there was a brother in the Writing Department, brilliant with NT Greek, who actually came to believe, not in the Trinity, per se, but in Jesus Christ's full divinity. He evidently came to believe that John 1:1 says what traditional Trinitarians think it says. He had no problem with anything else as far as I was told, and I don't know how much longer he tried to stay and work with the Writing Department. But naturally, when it was more widely known, he was out of there.

I have a feeling this is one of the most rare things, to see a former brother who STUDIED the topic, start believing in that part of the Trinity. I would lose any last bit of respect for Stafford if he turns out to have gone back to believing in the Trinity, or parts thereof. Does anyone know?

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2 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

If he is still alive, he might answer the phone, and tell you ... or it may go to voicemail.

Earlier today I tried the online chat, and I've sent an email. Not to ask the question, but to see if I could speak by phone. No contact yet. But perhaps someone here already has his book(s) and knows whether he uses the Philo example on John 1:1.

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@TrueTomHarley On your Facebook page, do you also post the background that you have bravely posted  here, background that accounts for your extreme sensitivity on the subject:

Just two points on this one comment from Tom.

1. The FB page is not about me personally so no i don't go into details about me. It was set up to try to get feedback from others that are in the same position as me, Ex -JW's still wanting to serve God.  I put up news articles but very little personal stuff. 

2. There is nothing brave about me giving personal details, it was done more in context as it was sort of hinted at by a previous comment. This page it seems has become more personal, people throwing mud at others rather that discussing subjects. If you think i am extreme so be it, that is your thoughts. From my viewpoint it is just that I DO HAVE personal experience of this so I DO KNOW how it feels and the results that never fade. Whereas many on here and in JW Org just see it as collateral damage.

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8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I never had any interest in engaging Trinitarians because I think it's a "done deal.

Even when the call has gone well, I tell Tom Pearlsandswine upon my return to the car: ‘I can’t believe that fellow could not see that Jesus and God are different!’

I watch his ears redden. I savor the moment. I know his thoughts:

‘You kept me waiting 45 MINUTES so you could blow times arguing the Trinity?!”

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Ok back from travels, so continued reply to Tom's questions.

When @JW Insider reveals a matter that would otherwise remain confidential, do you rush straight to your keyboard and tell your 900 friends?

No, I mainly upload 'news articles' direct as i find them. But the reason for starting the FB page was to get opinions from others. It hasn't happened much. But I'm not in need of 'limelight' by giving information that others don't have. I just make available on the page things that are general news items. I also advertise this forum in the hope that more people will visit here. 

 Did you make it when the opportunity was ripe? Did your testimony send school and/or government perpetrators  to jail? I hope you had that opportunity and I hope you came to enjoy some sense of justice because of it. 

I contacted Reading Council (using the Data Protection Act) and obtained some personal details of my time in the Home, but much of it was 'detracted', is that the right word, scribbled out anyway with black print. One page was completely blacked out. But I was told I had to use the 'Freedom of Information Act' to obtain details about other people / staff that ran the home at that time. However to gain that info' I had to attend the office, ask for files, find sections that were relevant, and inwardly digest the words, because I would not be allowed to copy, photograph or write notes concerning that information. That would involve a 130 mile trip to Reading, a stay overnight or two, and for what, just  read the info and not record it. 

Then the worse thing happened, the Jimmy Savile scandal started. It was all over the news about how he had abused children etc. It began to involve more 'well known' people and just escalated... So I stopped my investigation into the Children's Home staff etc, as it would have looked as if I was just jumping on the bandwagon. I know I should have done it all many years earlier but I didn't, and I wanted to do as much investigating myself as I could. So I never completed that 'mission'. Since the Jimmy Savile situation the Child Abuse investigations have grown more and more, about different people in different situations, including in religions. 

Do you also make clear that your hair-trigger sensitivity on this issue has nothing to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses?

If ever I talk to people about my past situation I do make it perfectly clear that it did not involve Jehovah's Witnesses. 

However, the link is that whilst I was still in a vulnerable state mentally / emotionally, I joined the JW organisation as it 'seemed' a safe and loving environment. It turns out that at that time, late 60's / early 70's, in some places, the Org was at its worst regarding Child Sexual Abuse. Many of the cases that have come into courts and are still coming into courts around the globe,  seem to centre around that era. 

But having been on here a while now, I have read comments from people that have also known about more recent cases. So although many of those cases are 'old news' it does not mean that it has all stopped. 

Hopefully that answers your questions @TrueTomHarley

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53 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

It’s usually due to the careful effort (consideration) in their part not to voice an opinion that might be misinterpreted or misconstrued by others.

Good point. This is why there are probably a dozen topics and at least 100 rumors and even well-known, documented incidents that I will never say anything about. There are even specific things that I made promises to the people involved not to talk about. If those incidents happen to make an important point, or provide a learning or teaching opportunity, there are always other ways or other available examples that can help make the same point.

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2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

But since you have tainted your life just like James going before a judicial committee for inquiry, only to lie through his teeth, and pretend he was honest and flawless as a new born baby to blame the Watchtower policies instead of his apostate views, no different from being in Bethel at one point and gossip against scriptural based principles should give you another reason why your attempts of hate and criticism are ineffective and false.

Even though the above quote was addressed to John Butler (and he can defend himself from your evil if he so desires ...) CONCERNING YOUR QUOTED STATEMENT ABOUT ME, you have just convicted YOURSELF, with your own words,  of being a hateful, wicked, malicious liar and a slanderer, BTK46.

NONE of what you just stated was true ... and you made it up completely from your malignant viewpoint on life.

Your malignant, perverted agenda driven  fantasy is not based on ANYTHING factual

Because I did not lie or misrepresent myself, I was convicted, and disfellowshipped .... and NOT for my divergent theology,, or "loose cannon" philosophy, which did in fact come up as I presented a defense for my actions.

I rescued someone from death using means and methods not understood, or sanctioned.

It is YOU that are the liar, BTK.

Under the unwritten "three year rule", I had to wait three years and more to be reinstated, because I would not lie, or fake it, or plead for mercy for myself. ( of which mercy is never shown, anyway, so it would have been a useless request ...). In my letter requesting reinstatement, I only promised I would not do what I did, again ... I did not renounce what I had to do, as I could not, and would not.

YOU ARE THE HABITUAL, WICKED, HATEFUL, LIAR, BTK46 ... AND YOU HAVE JUST CONVICTED YOURSELF.

You lie about EVERYTHING ... even the details about your .50 caliber sniper rifle, and your impossible fantasy of  me standing in front of a Tank with you in Tienanmen Square, China,  with a .22 caliber rifle, you unarmed being so brave, and bowing to no man.

You are a real piece of work!

... with a lot of pieces missing.

YOUR PUNISHMENT .....  IS TO BE YOU.

 

 

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I no longer read Billy the Kid's comments as I know he is a sick man and probably cannot help himself. 

God's word through Christ says we should forgive 77 times (continuously).  I've forgiven BTK for the way he has insulted me and therefore do not need to read any further comments of his. I do honestly believe that he is unwell and is best ignored as we cannot help him. 

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6 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Oh! Dear, James. Psychology is not your strong suit. Especially when your statement agrees with what I mentioned. I won't respond. I just didn't want to discuss all your dirty laundry in an open forum. 🤨

Of course not, BTK46 ...... you are a proven habitual liar ...  your own words prove it.

Now, as documented here on this forum, firmly established with solid proof from your own words .... there is nothing you could possibly do as a response to disprove that established  fact.

Of COURSE you won't respond.

Every time you are caught in a lie, you don't respond, except to change the subject.

...  few things are as sad as a delusional scholar who does not have to lie ... but does, anyway, trying to elevate himself, hoisted aloft by agenda driven fantasy.

                                                     -------------------------------------------------------------------

ON AN UNRELATED NOTE ... Ever wonder why Caleb and Sophia never age, and presumably will never have cartoon children of their own?

Sophia's Daughter Career Goals  .jpg

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6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Good point. This is why there are probably a dozen topics and at least 100 rumors and even well-known, documented incidents that I will never say anything about.

My only fear is that one day the blabbermouth will spill the beans about ME>

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1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

If I’m a liar, I must have learned it from the “best” LIARS here, JAMES THOMAS ROOK JR and JWinsider.

You have already proved from your own words you are a habitual, compulsive liar, BTK46.  Your continuing to expound on that theme only lends great credence to the possibility that you are ALSO certifiably insane.

You are your own worst enemy BTK46.

If you want to stay out of a "nervous hospital", my advice is to change the subject to ANYTHING else!

ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER - Copy (2).jpg

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On 6/10/2019 at 12:47 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

If this 'brother' had been involved in a child abuse accusation would they have told H about it so that she could be on her guard ? 

If the elders are aware of something like this they will warn her.  They are much more careful about anything like this today - negligence is rare these days!

If you are still unsure ....... send the congregation a letter and ask them to ensure that your daughter be warned if there is reason to be careful. ( Usually the governments also have public crime lists of people who have been found guilty  and served prison sentences - so you can look it up).  Or search court cases and newspaper articles.

It is sad that one now has to be suspicious of anyone (Christian or non-christian) in a world where child trafficking is now becoming the most lucrative industry with more revenue than drugs.

The cartelles running this world start with the top echelons of society.  Epstein got away with 34 cases in 2007 and it seems his black book had many top British names in it....... all protected at present.

Only under Jehovahs future government will these issues be immediately dealt with because Jesus will be in charge and he can read hearts. 

 

On 6/10/2019 at 9:37 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

think everyone on this Earth has the potential to be a pedophile or a murderer, or a thief and

Especially those who watch porn in secret.  

But "think-crime" or potential .... does not make you guilty.  One must have proof. Allegations are not proof.

This is why the governments are supposed to provide "experts" to work with the children when sex crimes are reported. Unfortunately the police do nothing - even when reported..... there is ample proof in UK of sex gangs operating for 15 years or more where parents were persecuted for reporting and gangs still proceeding with operations as usual.

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How simple things used to be years ago when If you suspected someone was "showing undo attention to your grandchildren", you just walked up to them, looked them straight in the eye, and said "STOP IT! ... OR ELSE !"

"GET THE HELL AWAY FROM MY FAMILY, OR I WILL DO EVERYTHING I CAN TO DESTROY YOU !"

.... and do it.

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      5.      Any related matters.
      The purpose of this public hearing is not to inquire into individual sets of facts or particular events as has occurred in previous Royal Commission case studies.
      Why does the Case Study 54 hearing appear to be only one day long?   This may appear at first glance to be a surprise. How can a single day of testimony possibly be enough to cover the vast and complex issue of Watchtower’s child abuse scandal?
       
      Well, remember that Case Study 54 isn’t a fact finding mission. That was Case Study 29. The Commission spent days digging and interviewing, and Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . As far as the Commission is concerned, the facts are in. There is no further debate. Case Study 54 is tasked purely with a quick review of those facts and then with publicly asking Watchtower what is has done to address the damning failures identified in Case Study 29.
      Remember what Justice McClellan said to Watchtower’s legal team? That they were going to come back to Watchtower and publicly ask them what had been done to address the issues?
      That’s what this is.
       
      So what has Watchtower done in the 21 months since Case Study 29?   As far as I am aware, the only potential effort from  Watchtower to address any of the concerns raised in the Royal Commission has been to no longer require an abuse survivor to confront their attacker. However, it was not clear from testimony if this practice had actually been halted before the Commission sat. Watchtower seemed to insist in testimony that it was, but their documentation did not reflect this.
      Thus one cannot say with certainty that even this potential change has come as a result of the Commission report.
       
      So Watchtower is going to stand before the Commission, after 21 months, and basically say they’ve done nothing at all?   I have no idea.
       
      I mean, that would be the honest thing to do, but remember how slippery and devious Watchtower was in Case Study 29, with senior Watchtower officials like Rodney Spinks, Terrence O’Brain and Governing Body Member Geoffrey Jackson attempted to mislead and outright lie to the Commission on multiple occasions. As far as I can see, Watchtower has three options
       
      Admit they’ve done nothing and that they don’t intend to for religious reasons, and turn the whole thing into an issue of religious freedom.   Try to stall and muddy the waters by saying they’ve not had enough time, that they have no authority to make the changes required without Brooklyn agreement, knowing full well that Brooklyn is beyond the reach of the Commission. The idea here would be to stall until the day is over, then slink away and wait, knowing no further testimony is required.   Dive full into another round of misleading doublespeak and outright lies to try and pull the wool over the Commission’s eyes. Which one will they pick? Again I have no idea. Judging from Watchtower’s jaw-dropping legal incompetence in Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. and in the recent Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , it’s very hard to predict their strategy. It seems to have no rhyme or reason, but keep in mind three things.
       
      The men in charge of Watchtower are firstly very deluded. They genuinely think they are defending God’s organization against Satanic and apostate attack, and feel that compromise will be a victory for Satan.   The men in charge of Watchtower are very out of touch with real life, spending all their days in a world where you don’t question Watchtower or those who run it, and now they’ve risen to the top. Their word is law. Odds are that no-one has told Anthony Morris III that his ideas are stupid for a very long time. They have no idea how to handle the kind of environment the Royal Commission brings to the table. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , where Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. was proof of that.   The men in charge of Watchtower are caught between being honest with a Commission that has all of their dirty little secrets on the one hand, and playing to the growing audience of JW’s who they know WILL find out about March 10th one way or the other. They have to both be as compliant as possible to the Commission whilst also appearing to be steadfast and unmovable to the Witnesses who will end up seeing the testimony on YouTube.   So delusion, seclusion, and public relations are all going to crash into once horrible mess as they did in Case Study 29 and as a result I have no idea what Watchtower will do on Friday.
       
      We  hope to preserve the live steam video for future reference as the Commission does not archive or make this video available once the live stream is over. However, technical gremlins are always a factor so if you have the ability to record the live stream, it would be a great idea to do so as well. The more people do this, the less chance of this footage being lost forever.
       
      Lastly we will of course be following up with articles on the day, giving you a more detailed analysis of what has transpired.
      Get your popcorn (and your coffee if you’re staying up late) and lets all observe the car crash together!
      And one last thing: if it is safe for you to do so, please tell as many Jehovah’s Witnesses as you can about the events on March 10th. Their children are at risk and they don’t even know it. They may choose not to look up the Case Study, but simply being aware that it exists is the first step in raising awareness that the Governing Body is not being honest with them about the international scandal of child abuse inside the Watchtower organization.
      (edited for political correctness and other stuff ...) JTR
       
       



    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      I just read that the Spanish organization "Abusos TJ" has sent a letter to the Ministry of the Interior on Wednesday to urge him to investigate the alleged cases of sexual abuse that have been concealed for years from the different congregations in Spain of the Jehovah's Witnesses. And the news shows this photo of the instructions given to the elders

      If these instructions are true, my question is what Bible base have these instructions? And why not inform the elders of the new congregation about a person who could be a danger to the community? 
    • By Jack Ryan
      The Jehovah's Witness Church in Australia failed to protect children in its care from sexual predators, a report has found.
      The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse delivered its report into the organisation on Monday.
      It stated that: "Children are not adequately protected from the risk of child sexual abuse in the Jehovah's Witness organisation and [the commission] does not believe the organisation responds adequately to allegations of child sexual abuse."
      Survivors of sexual abuse within the church and senior church members appeared before a public hearing last year.
      The inquiry heard the church received allegations of Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. over a 60-year period but did not report a single claim to police.
      In its report on the inquiry, the royal commission found that the organisation's general practice of "not reporting serious instances of child sexual abuse to police or authorities, demonstrated a serious failure on its part to provide for the safety and protection of children."
      The royal commission determined that the church's response to allegations of child sexual abuse were outdated, including a rule that there must be two witnesses to an incident, which "showed a serious lack of understanding of the nature of child sexual abuse".
      "It noted the rule, which the Jehovah's Witness organisation relies on, and applies inflexibly even in the context of child sexual abuse, was devised more than 2000 years ago," the report found.

      Royal commission chairman Justice Peter McClellan. Photo: Jeremy Piper
      The Jehovah's Witnesses approach to handling claims internally was not appropriate for children or survivors of sexual abuse, the report found.
      "Survivors are offered little or no choice in how their complaint is addressed, sanctions are weak with little regard to the risk of the perpetrator re-offending."
      The head of the Jehovah's Witness community's service desk, Rodney Spinks, is considering the report and is expected respond on Monday afternoon.
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    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Legislators ‘need to stopÂ’ working for institutions
      Dave Kohler, of Allentown, was abused by an ordained minister in the Jehovah’s Witnesses in November 1965. He was 9 years old. 
      When Kohler was 17, his abuser told him to never talk about the abuse again. 
      “So I obeyed and kept my mouth shut,” Kohler said. 
      He’s been coming to Harrisburg for about five years to show his support for statute of limitations reform. “Individuals vote them in, and then they work for institutions,” Kohler said of the state legislators. “That needs to stop.”
      If reform is passed that would allow Kohler the opportunity to sue his abuser, Kohler said he knows what he would do with any money he could collect.
      “I will hopefully be able to afford therapy,” he said.

      Dave Kohler, who said he was abused by an ordained minister in the Jehovah's Witnesses in Kutztown and Emmaus, talks about his experience, during the demonstration for statute of limitations reform to the state's childhood sexual abuse laws at the state capitol in Harrisburg on Monday. (Photo: Paul Kuehnel, York Daily Record)

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    • By The Librarian
      This cover up goes all the way up to the Vatican!
      The Vatican is not even responding 
    • By Witness
      Watchtower 14/11/15 
      The flocking of many humans to worship Jehovah with his people in this time of the end was foretold by two ancient prophets. Isaiah prophesied: “Many peoples will go and say: ‘Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.’ For law will go out of Zion, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.” (Isa. 2:2, 3)
      If, therefore, we wish to benefit from Jehovah’s protection during the great tribulation, we must recognize that Jehovah has a people on earth, organized into congregations. We must continue to take our stand with them and remain closely associated with our local congregation. With all our hearts, may we join the psalmist in proclaiming: “Salvation belongs to Jehovah. Your blessing is upon your people.” —Ps. 3:8.
      Protection?  Blessings?  Have you considered how a victim of abuse feels about this?
      Tell me, JWs, when the court systems of the world must alert and teach JWs to show compassion and righteous judgment to victims of child abuse, where is the “law that goes out from Zion” – GOD’S LAW?
      Does this organization protect and nurture, through the teaching of God’s law which is far superior than any court law of the land?  The “law” is found in the hearts of the anointed priests and kings that YOU refuse to recognize due to your submission to a Harlot/false prophet/ Wicked Slave; and her muscle, the elder body carrying out their own version of God’s laws. Isa 43:10; I Pet 2:5,9,10; Heb 8:10; Rev 13:1,6,7,11,14-17; Matt 24:48-51
      WAKE UP!  It can’t be excused away that this organization  IS Zion, yet offers no protection or blessing from the true God, YHWH. It is all, a delusion.  2 Thess 2:9-12
      Mount Zion, in all its glory, is NOT FOUND IN SATAN’S WORLD, called the “mountainlike organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses” but in the hearts of righteous faithful anointed ones,  who LEAVE THIS LIE BEHIND.   Many others, have found it to be “neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, the now “apostate city” of Harlots and their hardened hearts. 2 Chron 7:14  “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”  John 4:21-24
      “What are you, mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of ‘God bless it! God bless it!’”  Zech 4:7
      “The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, 9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.”  Rev 8:8,9
      It is blasphemy to believe that the cornerstone of God’s Zion/Temple (1 Pet 2:6) and his fulfillment of the “law” based on love, would approve of such twisting of God’s decrees, by men who trust only in themselves. Isa 2:22
      YHWH’s Genuine Mountain – Pearl Doxsey 4womaninthewilderness
       https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/362404/silent-lambs-child-sexual-abuse-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses
       
       edited for sentence structure
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      A message to young people in this weeks Watchtower Study paragraph 12:
      How to use the website jw.org to guide you answering a peer asking “Why do you believe in god?”
       
      The answer to that question can and should not be guided. If the question was about the flood or the end of the world then yes, use a textbook answer that can be “researched” on the website.
      But a personal question like that shouldn’t need to be guided from any outside source. If you have a real faith or belief in a higher power then you wouldn’t need an outside source to help you explain that.
       
    • By Witness
      This is in response to Jack Ryan's thread entitled, "...the angel of Jehovah camps all around those fearing him"  https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/57218-“’the-angel-of-jehovah-camps-all-around-those-fearing-him’/  
      It concerns the leaked Attendant Training Videos, of which I saw only a condensed review of them. The speaker of the training video remarks:"
      “Well, with a warm smile, you have the privilege to welcome all to a place of worship where the atmosphere is like a spiritual oasis in a parched land, and by taking the initiative to offer a helping hand you can be like those streams of cool water that bring refreshment to all.  And by promoting a safe and peaceful environment you can provide a place of concealment for all f our invited guests…It’s as if our great host Jehovah has extended his welcoming arms by means of you, so that everyone in attendance will feel like they have entered a house that is safe and secure.  Remember, too, you will not be working alone in behalf of God’s people.  Psalm 34:7 assures us, the angel of Jehovah camps all around those fearing him, so by means of his powerful angels, Jehovah can shield his faithful worshipers from harm, “IF IT BE HIS WILL”. 
      Jack Ryan's comment:
      “It appears that it wasn’t/isn’t Jehovah’s will to protect children from being sexually abused within His own congregations. It appears that these powerful angels are shielding no one, if He isn’t protecting these most vulnerable amongst us.
      Frankly, it appears that it isn’t Jehovah’s will to protect His people in general.”
      “IF IT BE HIS WILL”
      Temperamental god, this “Jehovah”. Would a God of love be so fickle?  
      “Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High
          will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.
       I will say of the Lord, ‘He is my refuge and my fortress,
          my God, in whom I trust.’”  Ps 91:1,2
       The true God, YHWH, that I am coming to know keeps His promises toward His faithful ones. If this speaker has doubts and feels the need to add an addendum to Ps 34:7, he is fully aware of the organization’s risky status in Russia and other countries, or he is reflecting on the rampant child abuse situation that the Watchtower unashamedly refuses to concretely address. Jer 8:11,12; Eph 5:11   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      The video is playing out a “showy display” of compassion and love before the masses, outweighing the hidden lack of it, which results from transgressing God’s requirements.  Eph 5:6,8,9  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      To be found “faithful” with the Father, we submit to His discipline and refinement. We prove ourselves worthy of His protection by following Christ’s Words. Zech 13:9; Mal 3:2-4; Heb 12:6 It is not God’s will that we rely on a corrupt organization for protection. Ps 26:4,5  It is His will that we rely on Him and His Son. Joel 2:12,13; Isa 48:17,18  Nowhere in the scriptures are we told to turn to an earthly image – a god of fortress for protection during the end times. (1 Sam 7:3) Dan 11:38,39; Rev 13:1,5-8  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      On the contrary, we are told to worship in spirit and truth and to seek out those Christ sends, at the same time to be on the lookout for false prophets.  John 4:24;3:8; 16:13,14; Matt 23:34; John 13:20; Acts 17:24; Heb 9:11; Matt 7:15-20   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Is “Jehovah’s CHARIOT” leading the sheep to truly love one another? All evidence of its past and present failings to protect the flock, point to “no”.   Mark 12:29-31; Matt 22:40; John 15:9-14; Rom 13:8-10  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Please, do not sweep the obvious under the carpet, JWs! 
      “…Love does NO HARM to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”  Rom 13:10
      The trouble begins within the internal mechanism of the organization; the ruling elders, both the leaders and their henchmen; therein, is the source of all suffering, seen and unseen, happening within the Watchtower. Rev 8:10,11; Amos 5:7; Rev 9:1-4; Joel 2:1-10  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Watchtower 13/1/15 pg 27-31  “Rather than making rigid rules for the congregation, ELDERS rely on Scriptural principles and direction from Jehovah’s organization. After all, present-day elders are not the masters over their brothers’ faith. — Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      In reality, scriptural principles are basically ignored, while direction from the organization dictates every working aspect of the Watchtower.   We have proof of this with the leaders’ latest resolve to barely bend their rigid rules with child molestation cases. Isa 10:1,2  They are WITHOUT A DOUBT cruel masters over the faith of each JW through their restrictive decrees that conflict with the ordinances of the true God, founded on love and righteousness.   Isa 29:13;Hab 1:4; 2 Cor 11:4,20;Col 2:20-22; Ps 89:14-17https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa+10%3A1%2C2%3B+Isa+29%3A13%3BHab+1%3A4%3B+2+Cor+11%3A4%2C20%3BCol+2%3A20-22%3B+Ps+89%3A14-17+&version=NKJV
      As a result, it is absolutely clear the organization does not follow God’s laws outlined by Christ and verified by scripture. Remembering that the governing body admit they are NOT INSPIRED by God’s Holy Spirit, (Wt 2017/2) Anthony Morris recently stated that the “theocratic organization” receives its decisions or “decrees” from God.  Doesn’t it make you question the source of these decrees since God’s Holy Spirit does not “inspire” the governing body?
       Quote:  “When that direction comes out to Branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations; IF you want Jehovah’s blessing ON YOU as an individual or family, certainly as an ELDER or congregation, it’d be best to ask Jehovah to help you understand it, BUT OBEY THE DECISION.” (Joel 2:7) Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Deut 4:2:  “You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.”
      John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commandments.”
      One of those long held unscriptural decrees is for the elders to stand/rule over the authentic priesthood of God and their companions, while charging them as conspirators for accepting Christ’s lead above the organizational format, resulting in a judgment of “death” by disfellowshipping.  Ezek 44:6-9; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4;Rev 13:5-7,11,12,15; 1 John 3:11,12  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      God, who does not change His mind unlike “Jehovah’s organization”, PROMISES to be our shield and strength, IF we submit and follow HIS decrees through Christ, the head of the anointed Body.   Deut 33:29; 2 Sam 22:31; Nahum 1:7    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      The anointed priesthood of God has a purpose – to offer sacrifices of praise and thanksgiving, to teach God’s laws written on their heart, admonish, direct, and heal, God’s sheep.  Isa 43:21; 1 Pet 2:9; Rom 2:13,15; Heb 13:15; Rev 7:10; Isa 44:23; Ezek 44:23; Jer 23:22; Mal 2:7; Rom 8:19-22; Rev 22:1,2  Yet, they have been restrained by a Wicked Slave/Harlot/Wormwood/false prophet and its delegated army from doing so, creating within the Watchtower, a spiritually “parched land”, void of the knowledge of God’s ordinances. (Yes, all these characteristic titles are prophetically fulfilled by the governing body)  Zeph 3:4; Amos 8:11; Joel 1:5-7; Rev 8:8  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Can you imagine how God and Christ view the appointed Temple priesthood submitting to the rules of men and their handbook; and not to Christ and the laws written on their heart? Ezek 8:5,6 Those who are “ambassadors of Christ” are to work as one anointed Body, with each one a branch of the vine of Christ, which allows Holy Spirit to feed and direct the Body through all of its members. John 15:5-8; 1 Cor 12:20,25,26 Paul spoke of it as a “fearful responsibility” to carry the message of reconciliation. 2 Cor 5:11,19,20 (NLT)   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Are the unanointed elders who “represent the royal priesthood”, the true “ambassadors” or representatives of Christ? In the first century, would Christ have condoned others to replace the apostles who are the foundations stones of his Temple Body? 1 Cor 3:10,11 Neither should men muscle aside the “living stones” of God’s Temple from performing their duties as Christ’s ambassadors.  Ezek 34:20-23; Eph 2:20-22; John21:17; Luke12:42; Matt.5:14-15; Rev.1:20; Mal.2:7; Rev.22:6; John13:20 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Can you imagine God’s disgust, as His priests continue to allow a Harlot/false prophet “decree” that they remain apart from one another, not seek one another out, not “study the Bible together”, passively swallowing such UNSCRIPTURAL lies, and allow themselves to be trampled down by them? Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12; Rev 11:1-3; Joel 1:4,5; Eph 5:14-20  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      In each instance when God’s people in the past disregarded His ordinances, He “sent”, or allowed, discipline to fall on them. (Deut 8:1-6; Heb 12:11)   Usually, it was in the form of an enemy’s stronghold. The “rod” of discipline this time, is the organization; specifically, the very army of elders who rule over them. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      The very army that chooses to ignore the plight of the helpless ones.  Ps 89:30-32; Rev 3:19; Rev 9:1-11  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Joel 1:4 describes them as locust in all historic and individual stages of type and development.
      KJV:
      That which the palmerworm hath left --- “a creeping locust without wings”-“to devour”…
      …hath the locust eaten  ---  a locust “swarm”…
      …and that which the locust hath left …
      …hath the cankerworm eaten  ---  “a devourer; specifically, the young locust”…
      …and that which the cankerworm hath left…
      …hath the caterpiller eaten  ---  “a locust not yet winged” “the ravager” 
      Now, picture the locust swarm “released” by the Harlot/Wormwood to come against the anointed priesthood – against the Temple of God:
      “Many Christian men apply that encouragement and make spiritual progress to qualify for privileges in the congregation. The result is that God’s people are blessed with TENS OF THOUSANDS of capable elders and ministerial servants. But because of the increase seen in the congregations, there is a need for more brothers to reach out.” Wt 14/9/15
      FROM PEARL DOXSEY’S ARTICLE: “THE GREAT TRIBULATION – WHAT AND WHY”:
      “The Great Tribulation is a spiritual assault by Satan upon the remnant, ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.   t
      through the greatest Army that has ever existed [ Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  -( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ); Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ]  
      It has a deceptive priestly - princely veneer ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )
      of divine INSPIRATION*** and approval,through endorsement by the false prophet's lying spirit,   
      NOT by God's spirit! ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ; Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. --***"breath" - Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ).  
      (*** False prophet produces a counterfeit of "God's SPIRIT - DIRECTED Organization")
      [The AUTHENTIC Temple of God's spirit, is His Chosen, anointed priesthood ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )] 
      God sends / allows this abomination, to assault and discipline His people ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  C;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ; Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ), because in the time of the end,  
        GOD’S PEOPLE are tolerating, subjecting themselves to, and participating in IDOLIZING, the collective "Image" of that very Army ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ). 
      THAT IS WHY THEY ARE BEING TRAMPLED BY IT”  ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ; Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ).
      The love which results in righteous acts, simply does not exist in the organization since the climate of lawlessness has erased true justice. Deut 6:24,25  For those anointed who reject the GB that “substitutes” for Christ (NWT 2 Cor 5:20) ,turning instead to Jesus Christ to lead them directly; they are freed from the crushing weight of lawlessness – “ the disgusting thing standing in the holy place” – the elder body “standing” in/over the “living stones” of the Temple of God. 2Chron.13:9; 2Thess.2:4; Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      “Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with LAWLESSNESS? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the TEMPLE OF GOD with idols? For youare the temple of the living God. As God has said:
      “I will dwell in them
      And walk among them.
      I will be their God,
      And they shall be My people.”
      17 Therefore
      “Come out from among them
      And be separate, says the Lord.
      Do not touch what is unclean,
      And I will receive you.”
      18 “I will be a Father to you,
      And you shall be My sons and daughters,
      Says the Lord Almighty.” 2 Cor 6:14-18
      We are reminded during this time period, of “Who is like God”, since “Jehovah’s organization” with all its “temple” sublets, has seduced God’s people into idolatry and the transgression of God’s laws fulfilled in Christ.  Deut 4:23,24;  Isa 40:25; Dan 12:1; Rev 12:7-9; Rev 13:4; Gal 5:14 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  
      Within Watchtower’s walls, instead of an angel of God camping all around those fearing Him, another angel – Belial -  has surrounded the camp of holy ones, utilizing a Harlot/false prophet and the organization she so presently loves, to keep them captivated and inebriated on wormwood, and a false sense of peace and security. Matt 25:5; 22:8; Rev 18:3; 1 Cor 6:15; Jer 51:7; 1 Thess 5:3; Rev 20:9  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      13 “If you carefully obey my commands I am giving you today, to love the Lord your God and worship Him with all your heart and all your soul, 14 I will provide rain for your land in the proper time, the autumn and spring rains, and you will harvest your grain, new wine, and fresh oil. 15 I will provide grass in your fields for your livestock. You will eat and be satisfied. 16 Be careful that you are not enticed to turn aside, serve, and bow in worship to other gods. 17 Then the Lord’s anger will burn against you. He will shut the sky, and there will be no rain; the land will not yield its produce, and you will perish quickly from the good land the Lord is giving you.
      18 “Imprint these words of mine on your hearts and minds, bind them as a sign on your hands, and let them be a symbol on your foreheads. 19 Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit in your house and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 20 Write them on the doorposts of your house and on your city gates, 21 so that as long as the heavens are above the earth, your days and those of your children may be many in the land the Lord swore to give your fathers. 22 For if you carefully observe every one of these commands I am giving you to follow—to love the Lord your God, walk in all his ways, and remain faithful to him— 23 the Lord will drive out all these nations before you, and you will drive out nations greater and stronger than you are. 24 Every place the sole of your foot treads will be yours. Your territory will extend from the wilderness to Lebanon and from the Euphrates River to the Mediterranean Sea. 25 No one will be able to stand against you; the Lord your God will put fear and dread of you in all the land where you set foot, as he has promised you.
      26 “Look, today I set before you a blessing and a curse: 27 there will be a blessing, if you obey the commands of the Lord your God I am giving you today, 28 and a curse, if you do not obey the commands of the Lord your God and you turn aside from the path I command you today by following other gods you have not known.  Deut 11:13-28
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      Romy Maple and Barbara Anderson expose the horrendous child sexual abuse cover ups.
      You know it's bad when the program starts with this:

       
    • By Anna
      Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that despite this informative document recently made available to download in several languages on the JW website, there is not too much of a mention of it by any of the opposers and "campaigners" against child abuse in the JW organization.
      Here is the entire document:
      JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES’ SCRIPTURALLY BASED POSITION ON CHILD PROTECTION
      Definitions: Child abuse may include neglect, physical abuse, sexual abuse, or emotional abuse.
      Child sexual abuse is a perversion and generally includes one or more of the following: sexual inter-course with a child; oral or anal sex with a child; fondling the genitals, breasts, or buttocks of a child; voyeurism of a child; indecent exposure to a child; or soliciting a child for sexual conduct. It may include sexting with a minor or showing pornography to a minor.
      In this document, references to parents apply equally to legal guardians or other persons who hold pa-rental responsibility for a minor.
      1. Children are a sacred trust, “an inheritance from Jehovah.”—Psalm 127:3.
      2. The protection of children is of utmost concern and importance to all Jehovah’s Witnesses. This is in harmony with the long-standing and widely published Scripturally based position of Jehovah’s Witnesses, as reflected in the references at the end of this document, which are all published on jw.org.
      3. Jehovah’s Witnesses abhor child abuse and view it as a crime. (Romans 12:9) We recognize that the authorities are responsible for addressing such crimes. (Romans 13:1-4) The elders do not shield any perpetrator of child abuse from the authorities.
      4. In all cases, victims and their parents have the right to report an accusation of child abuse to the authorities. Therefore, victims, their parents, or anyone else who reports such an accusation to the elders are clearly informed by the elders that they have the right to report the matter to the authorities. Elders do not criticize anyone who chooses to make such a report.—Galatians 6:5.
      5. When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they immediately consult with the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses to ensure compliance with child abuse reporting laws. (Romans 13:1) Even if the elders have no legal duty to report an accusation to the authorities, the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses will instruct the elders to report the matter if a minor is still in danger of abuse or there is some other valid reason. Elders also ensure that the victim’s parents are informed of an accusation of child abuse. If the alleged abuser is one of the victim’s parents, the elders will inform the other parent.
      6. Parents have the primary responsibility for the protection, safety, and instruction of their children. Therefore, parents who are members of the congregation are encouraged to be vigilant in exercising their responsibility at all times and to do the following:
      • Have direct and active involvement in their children’s lives.
      • Educate themselves and their children about child abuse.
      • Encourage, promote, and maintain regular communication with their children. —Deuteronomy 6:6, 7; Proverbs 22:3.
      Jehovah’s Witnesses publish an abundance of Bible-based information to assist parents to fulfill their responsibility to protect and instruct their children.—See the references at the end of this document.
       7. Congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses do not separate children from their parents for the purpose of instruction or other activities. (Ephesians 6:4) For example, our congregations do not provide or sponsor orphanages, Sunday schools, sports clubs, day-care centers, youth groups, or other activi-ties that separate children from their parents.
      8. Elders strive to treat victims of child abuse with compassion, understanding, and kindness. (Colossians 3:12) As spiritual counselors, the elders endeavor to listen carefully and empathetically to victims and to console them. (Proverbs 21:13; Isaiah 32:1, 2; 1 Thessalonians 5:14; James 1:19) Victims and their families may decide to consult a mental-health professional. This is a personal decision.
      9. Elders never require victims of child abuse to present their accusation in the presence of the alleged abuser. However, victims who are now adults may do so, if they wish. In addition, victims can be accompanied by a confidant of either gender for moral support when presenting their accusation to the elders. If a victim prefers, the accusation can be submitted in the form of a written statement.
      10. Child abuse is a serious sin. If an alleged abuser is a member of the congregation, the elders conduct a Scriptural investigation. This is a purely religious proceeding handled by elders according to Scriptural instructions and is limited to the issue of membership as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. A member of the congregation who is an unrepentant child abuser is expelled from the congregation and is no longer considered one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (1 Corinthians 5:13) The elders’ handling of an accusation of child abuse is not a replacement for the authorities’ handling of the matter.—Romans 13:1-4.
      11. If it is determined that one guilty of child sexual abuse is repentant and will remain in the congregation, restrictions are imposed on the individual’s congregation activities. The individual will be specifically admonished by the elders not to be alone in the company of children, not to cultivate friendships with children, or display any affection for children. In addition, elders will inform parents of minors within the congregation of the need to monitor their children’s interaction with the individ-ual.
      12. A person who has engaged in child sexual abuse does not qualify to receive any congregation privileges or to serve in a position of responsibility in the congregation for decades, if ever. —1 Timothy 3:1-7, 10; 5:22; Titus 1:7.
      13. This document is available upon request to members of the congregation. It is reviewed at least once every three years.
      Source:
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    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      WHY would Jehovah's Witnesses reject Government  calls for Independent Inquiry into sexual abuse?