I'm worried about a 'brother' recently reinstated spending too much time with my grandchildren

[JOHN BUTLER]

14 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

No, I said that I don't ... when in Field Service .... if memory serves.

Therein lies the problem.

I thought you said many JW's use the American Standard Version or something like that. Sorry if i misquoted you. 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Did you tell him that?

No. His name came up yesterday in this thread or another ongoing one. It was many years that I emailed him to ask if he was actually a Witness, and he said then that he was and in good standing. I’ve no idea whether that is still the case.

His answer is different from mine when the malcontents on Twitter keep asking me whether I am a Witness or not, and I answer with “neither am I telling you by what authority I do these things.”

People are incredible. They think that they can slam you anonymously—and all that you stand for—and then expect you to be forthcoming with personal details upon request. “You yourself are saying it” is another answer that works well. 

They have pretty well decided that I am not, due to their own paranoia that if a Witness so much as strays one inch from “orders,” he is immediately drawn and quartered. I have said such things as: 

“I asked a similar question about the liar who represented himself on Twitter as Geoffrey Jackson (and Anthony Morris): ‘Is he really a Witness?’ It seemed like it should have been a very easy question to answer. So I asked him. He said that he was!”

and

”If you go online to flame them, [JWs] while still claiming to be a Witness, you may have trouble. Drop the claim, and you can flame them all you want.

If you explode in rage at counsel not to get into cat fights, you may have trouble.

But if you write a book letting the air out of their complaints, will you? Time will tell.

Do you really truly in your paranoid heart of hearts, think that nobody knows of the book—when you are the first to decry them for sticking their nose everywhere?”

At such times, I link to the book, TrueTom vs the Apostates!”

The book itself alludes a few times to the question, such as:

And now I must face the music from my own side, and there may be some. His continual taunts at being “not allowed” were surely overdone, and it must have made him feel a little silly when I kept coming nonetheless, until he felt compelled to “not allow” me himself. Still, nobody here thinks it is the bee’s knees to engage with these characters, and I may hear about it. And they could be right. Maybe I am the yo-yo on the Jerusalem wall singing out just when Hezekiah is telling the troops to zip it. But I just couldn’t take it anymore.

The Witness organization cannot be expected to defend itself on social media, if on any media. It takes the scriptural view of Jesus at Matthew 11, noting that grumblers slam him no matter what he does, before finally saying, ‘Don’t worry about it,’ “wisdom is proved righteous by its works.” It is like David who kept mum as ‘all day long they muttered against him.’ ‘It is like the plowman who knows that if you look behind while plowing, the furrows get all flaky.’ They don’t do it. The common view of opposers is that the Witness headship is telling members what to do, while it cynically manipulates all from above. That view is wrong. They practice what they preach and they do it themselves. The organization headship cites Hebrews 13:7 about ‘imitating the faith of those who are taking the lead among you.’ They don’t go on social media at all. They prefer a less raucous channel, and content themselves with news releases at the website that inform but do not kick back at the critics.

It is scriptural. It is proper. But there is a downside. By staying mum on specifics, essentially our enemies get to define us to the news media who refer to a cover statement about “abhorring child abuse” as “boiler-plate” and then go to former members who will eagerly fill their ears with accounts that we could counter by adding context but don’t. What’s a reporter to do? He goes to who fills his ears.

It will fall upon the Witness journalist to do it, if it is to be done, and there aren’t many of them. If fourteen years of blogging, not shying from controversial things, does not qualify me to take a shot at it, what does? If you are in a spiritual paradise, or even a vacation paradise, you do not have to concern yourself with removing the trash. It may be even dangerous to do so, because there is broken glass and used syringes. It’s not for everyone, and maybe for no one. But I thought I’d give it a go, and I at last got under this fellow’s skin, the big baby.

This was in the chapter ‘Banned From the Apostate Website!”

Of course, I am using Greg as a pretext to launch my own diatribe. I have no idea of where he is now (as I didn’t then), or whether he is friend or foe. Hope he doesn’t mind. Most authors enjoy publicity—almost any publicity will do, and mine of him is not bad. It is merely inconclusive.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

But my point is that we can also work alongside people we don't necessarily trust, and still accomplish some good.

You mean your work (as single, not as we)  can accomplish some good ?  :))

I think how in this complexity of Trust Issue (on various fields, in various places and with various people) things are in so wide specter of colors with much/lot, lot of white and black too.  

But, main thing is thus, if you not trust someone , or have lost your trust in someone ... wall is very big/high.

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You mean your work (as single, not as we)  can accomplish some good ?  :))

I think how in this complexity of Trust Issue (on various fields, in various places and with various people) things are in so wide specter of colors with much/lot, lot of white and black too.  

But, main thing is thus, if you not trust someone , or have lost your trust in someone ... wall is very big/high.

 work alongside people we don't necessarily trust. Children do it all the time. Some people say Look at those children playing together', but when you look closely you will see children playing alongside each other. Each child is doing their own thing.   

The secret is not to get emotional about it. Life can be very practical. Being retired I can choose what I do and when I do it. My wife chooses what she will do and when she will do it. Sometimes we choose to go places together. We share the housework. She cooks I wash up. She visits her mum and the children, i work on the cars and do the garden :) 

None of it involves trust or love. It is just practical living. 

As for people outside, I have no need to trust anyone, I'm quite independent at the moment.  Mixing with people does not involve trust. I go to auctions to view and sometimes buy,  i converse with the staff and others there but it does not involve trust. 

Think deeply for a while, how many things truly involve trust? Most things in life are just practical or natural things. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@TrueTomHarley  Um, the GB / org do not do social media, ok. But they do broadcasts.

But I'm sure I've seen evidence that when people want to talk to the GB face to face, to ask questions ect, the GB have refused interviews and conversations.  The GB seem to live behind locked gates. So how is a person to express their feelings or ask questions ?  Obvious answer is social media.  

Plus, many of us feel the need to warn other people about the dangers of the JW Org. Where is better than social media ? 

My FB page about Ex JW's has just reached :-  You've just reached 900 Page likes. Good job!

It's not a lot but i don't promote it and hardly upload anything to it. People are finding it. People are talking about it, so it does a small amount of good. If I can give a few people a little information about the problems in the JW Org the n I'm happy to do just that. 

We can agree on this one thing  “wisdom is proved righteous by its works.” Hence its easy to see that the GB are not wise in a spiritual way.  Of course they may have the 'wisdom of the world' with their high paid Lawyers doing their dirty work for them, just as the Romans did the dirty work for the religious leaders of the Jews, buy killing Jesus. 

Quote : The common view of opposers is that the Witness headship is telling members what to do,.... 

Tom, do you really forget that most people you call 'opposers' are actually Ex JW's ?  They have been there, witnessed it all. It's not hearsay it's real experiences. You know, more real than those 'experiences' they do on the 'platform'.  Who are you trying to fool  Tom ? Yourself maybe. 

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You've just reached 900 Page likes. Good job!

This may actually mean 900 people, but I would not get too excited. Some of these characters have been known to press the like key as frequently as Skinner box rats, working themselves into a lather and eventually dropping out of sheer exhaustion.

[JOHN BUTLER]

3 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This may actually mean 900 people, but I not get too excited. Some of these characters have been known to press the like key as frequently as Skinner box rats, working themselves into a lather and eventually dropping out of sheer exhaustion.

I did say it's not a lot but it's a few people looking and reading what's there.  i can hardly put on a 'broadcast' can I ? 

And i can't start up a magazine, and I'm not up to writing a book, like you.  However there is enough news media /reports out there now thanks to all the efforts of victims, ex-JW's and others that have made things known earthwide. And whether you agree or not, i think it has made the GB / Org make changes. Changes that would not otherwise have been made. And on my 'travels' here and elsewhere (many will roam about) I have found out much more than I originally knew. It has been and still is a great learning curve.  

[TrueTomHarley]

35 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And whether you agree or not, i think it has made the GB / Org make changes. 

I do agree. Or at least, I do not deny.

If opponents want to take credit, why not give it to them? Everything in life is action/reaction. If this is one of the same, they can rightly pat themselves on the back.

I acknowledged the point here: (I also posted this on the forum, but it is just so easier to find it again on my own site):

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/02/the-reproach-of-child-sexual-abuse-falls-on-the-abu.html

[Shiwiii]

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I’ve no idea whether that is still the case.

nope, left in 2007

 

In 2007, Greg G. Stafford officially disassociated from the Watchtower Society, the official name of the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

He continues to refer to himself as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and continues to defend the religion’s unique teachings — but also addresses what he considers to be doctrines and practices for which, in his view, there is no biblical support, but which are nevertheless taught by the Watchtower Society.

Such dissent is not possible within the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, which refers to itself as the “faithful and discreet slave’ organization” 

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

My FB page about Ex JW's has just reached :-  You've just reached 900 Page likes. Good job!

When @JW Insider reveals a matter that would otherwise remain confidential, do you rush straight to your keyboard and tell your 900 friends?

And when you do, do you spin it as I have seen you spin it so many times before? He makes clear that he regards as a rare occurrence whatever he reveals, and you spin it as though it is business as usual among Jehovah’s Witnesses?

On your Facebook page, do you also post the background that you have bravely posted  here, background that accounts for your extreme sensitivity on the subject:

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

In a nutshell. I suffered 3½ years of sexual abuse, physical abuse and emotional abuse in a Children's Home, from age 13 to 16½. It was suffer and keep quiet, or be moved into an Approved School, which i was assured was 10 times worse.  We didn't have sex education back then so i was very nieve, and I was under the 'care' of the council (local government) so could not just walk away from it. I could not report it to the police as they were all part of the same system and i would have been 'moved'.  

It doesn’t disqualify you from speaking. A victim statement is these days considered an essential part—even the highlight—of any trial. Did you make it when the opportunity was ripe? Did your testimony send school and/or government perpetrators  to jail? I hope you had that opportunity and I hope you came to enjoy some sense of justice because of it.

I also hope it is the case that you were not denied that opportunity/justice somehow, and so you are taking it out on people that have nothing whatsoever to do with your tragic past.

At any rate, it is a serious question. Just as a professional can be expected to display their credentials, do you display your ‘credentials’ that give you a special sensitivity to the crime? Do you also make clear that your hair-trigger sensitivity on this issue has nothing to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses?

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

He...continues to defend the religion’s unique teachings — but also addresses what he considers to be doctrines and practices for which, in his view, there is no biblical support, but which are nevertheless taught by the Watchtower Society.

In other words, he wants the faith to become a museum piece. He wants it to be a fine support system for people as they pursue other goals.

Ah, Greg, I didn’t even know ye

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

If I was you, TTH, I would worry less about Gregg G. Stafford's efforts to turn Jehovah's Witnesses' life, culture, and theology into museum pieces, and more about the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses doing just that.

The efforts of the GB cause millions of people to "come into the Truth", but they also chase millions of people away, after they do.

It's like a person who makes his fortune in New York City, and finds that the City and State do not consider him to be a citizen, as much as they consider him a cash cow.

There is nothing more portable than people with money who are tired of being treated badly by State and local governing bodies, and when they find they have no voice at all to protest this treatment, they realize that they can vote with their feet, and take their wallets with them, leaving the States and Cities to become museum pieces in a slow, tragic death spiral. 

Detroit is a classic example ...one of many.

The same is becoming more and more true about Jehovah's Witnesses, who often, unless they are mindless sycophants,  chafe and tire of the uninspired and erroneous, and heavy handed (in a silk glove) treatment they get in pursuing equity and Justice, and Truth.

So ... they take the Truth they have with them, and their wallets with them, like spilled gold dust disappearing  through cracks in the floor.

They too ... vote with their feet ... and their wallets ... leaving the Organization to be surrounded with sycophants, admiring their Telly Awards, and cartoon evangelizers.

"We have seen the Enemy" .... and He is Us"   -   Pogo

 

( The reason I stay, is I have a very high pain tolerance, and expect nothing from anybody ... and $30 every few months  is all I can afford, and I allocate that to "local needs".)