What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Also it's not correct to say that they claim only THEY can give instruction to God's people. Every publisher is allowed to present the good news of the Kingdom to those who may become God's people. Every speaker from a platform can be giving instruction to God's people. Every older sister who encourages a younger sister, every younger brother who encourages an older brother, etc. All the congregation feeds one another by building one another up and encouraging one another.

Also it's not correct to say that they claim only THEY can give instruction to God's people.

If you allow me to say, somehow it can be correct to say that THEY thinking how only THEY can give Life Saving Instructions, and no one else but THEY. :))

 

Every publisher is allowed to present the good news of the Kingdom to those who may become God's people. Every speaker from a platform can be giving instruction to God's people.

Yes, they can present, but inside boarders that is Authorized by THEY.

 

Every older sister who encourages a younger sister, every younger brother who encourages an older brother, etc. All the congregation feeds one another by building one another up and encouraging one another.

"Encourage" is broad term. In relation to Religious Matters, and what is said previously, perhaps this specific sort of "encouraging" you mentioned, is about encouraging To Stay Firm in Temporary Teachings, until some of this temporary dogmas would not be changed by THEY.

:)) In the end, it is not question about who is inspired, but who is Guided by THEY. 

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

In a scholarly world. There are many levels of understanding. There is no one set of rule. However, scripture does contain certain rules. This is why Jesus never became a formal rabbi with scholarly works. He didn’t need to, just like we don’t need to. Here is but a taste of the many variations.

He, Jesus, didn't need formal education to be a formal rabbi. You sad well, because Jesus has never become Formal Rabbi. And He obviously has never made plans to be one of them. :))

But he was .... What? Inspired by spirit ? or Guided by spirit?

If we said how He was "Inspired", than we agree with WTJWORG unique way of interpretations about word "inspired".

 If we said how He was just "Spirit Guided", than we agree with WTJWORG way of idea what mean to be Guided But Not Inspired. By THEY It means how Jesus read "Bible" every day and rowing about spirit behind the word, and with angels help he was been successful in all that.

[JOHN BUTLER]

@JW Insider  Just because they are not THE faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45

So you agree that they are telling lies then ?  You agree that the GB are not the Faithful and discreet slave ? 

It has nothing to do with whether one is anointed or not.

I totally disagree with you on this. Those not anointed need to be 'clinging to the skirt / hem of a 'JEW' ' 

The JEW is spiritual of course, a class of people, the Anointed ones. 

Srecko has covered a lot of what i would say but i will add to it anyway. 

Also it's not correct to say that they claim only THEY can give instruction to God's people. Every publisher is allowed to present the good news of the Kingdom to those who may become God's people. Every speaker from a platform can be giving instruction to God's people.

The GB use a Writing Department to write the literature. The publishers might as well be just leaflet distributors. The 'carts' used to give away literature, only offer what the GB / Writing dept print.  Publishers are told not to have their own opinions. i know remember, I've been there, done that. So a publisher offers a pretend 'Bible study'. it's pretend because it is actually a study of a book written by the GB / Writing Dept, not a proper study of God's word.  ( At a later date this book will be banned and replaced by another book, with different lies in, when so called 'new light' appears ). 

The speakers from the platform are just puppets. They are given strict outlines written by the GB / Writing dept. So once again the GB rules over the congregations. 

The Elders are given a rule book 'Shepherd the Flock', which they must obey without question. Once again written by the GB / Writing dept.

 For most Witnesses, who prefer not to question, and not to make sure of all things,  it probably makes them more comfortable this way.

Yes, just puppets. They just push out the lies from the GB / Writing dept. They serve the GB and it's two 'orgs'.  The JW Org & the Watchtower.  These 'witnesses' are not God's witnesses, they are witnesses for the GB and those organisations. 

Doesn't God tell us through his word to, 'Make sure of all things' ?

 

 

 

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So you agree that they are telling lies then ?  You agree that the GB are not the Faithful and discreet slave ?

Let's say that it's 1924 and you truly believe that there are many sound Biblical reasons to anticipate that the resurrection of the "Old Testament" faithful men of God will start in 1925. You begin to believe it so strongly that you say there is more evidence for it than there was for 1914, and that there is more evidence for it than Noah had that there would be a Flood. If you didn't truly believe it, why stick your neck out for the embarrassment you'd face in just a few more months? Why risk losing the entire organization you worked so hard to lead.

I'd say that Rutherford, the "chairman" and primary member of the "Governing Body" that had begun in 1919, must have truly believed in 1925. Similarly with several remaining mistakes --still based on a faulty set of chronology beliefs-- the current GB are not lying, they are mistaken.

Did you, John, never say something that was not true, because you really believed it was true at the time, and then found out later that it wasn't? Were you lying?

And for the second question, Yes, I agree that the GB are not the FDS. The members of the GB should be some of our best examples of faithful and discreet ministers. But there is no single group called the FDS. When Jesus said, "Who really is your neighbor?" he was not prophesying a class of people to be called the "Neighbor" or "The Good Samaritan." When Jesus gave an illustration about a man whose son asks for bread and the father gives him a stone, do you think he was prophesying a specific group of people who give stones for bread?

(Matthew 7:9, 10) 9 Indeed, which one of you, if his son asks for bread, will hand him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, he will not hand him a serpent, will he?

Who really is the good father in this illustration, the one who gives the proper food his son asks for, or the one who gives him a stone or a serpent instead?

Who really is the judge who had no respect for God in the illustration of a judge who gets pestered again and again to give justice to a widow? Who is the widow? (Luke 18:1-7)

These illustrations are not so different from the one that includes the FDS. Who really is a faithful slave when the master goes away, and the servants don't know how long he'll be gone? Is it the one who keeps the household running smoothly, and continues to serve good food at the proper time, or the one who starts taking all the food for himself, and gets drunk on the wine?

Both illustrations are simple. One was about how Jehovah answers prayers, and one was about what sort of persons we ought to be while waiting for the parousia, even if it takes 1,000 years, or comes tomorrow:

(2 Peter 3:11-14) . . .consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 as you await and keep close in mind the presence [parousia] of the day of Jehovah, . . . 14 Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace.

It's not about whether we claim to be anointed or not, it's about being faithful until the end. Most of the FDS illustration was about what happens to unfaithful slaves of different classes, not what happens to faithful slaves, so we know it was really a lesson to warn all of us, "everyone," about the kinds of problems that Jesus' parousia delay could cause, and the heavy responsibility to "watch ourselves."

(Luke 12:45-48) . . .But if ever that slave should say in his heart, ‘My master delays coming,’ and starts to beat the male and female servants and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting him and at an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones. 47 Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. 48 But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I totally disagree with you on this. Those not anointed need to be 'clinging to the skirt / hem of a 'JEW' ' 

Who says this didn't already happen when Jesus walked the earth, or when Peter spoke at Pentecost and began to open up the hope to people of all languges, or when Peter and then Paul (Jews) began to preach to the nations, and the word was spread 10-fold, then 100-fold, then 1000-fold and more? Paul explained how the Jewish beginnings of Christianity were important to the transition that leads to Christianity for the nations. This was a wonderful fulfillment that has occurred and continues to occur. We need not wait for a specific new fulfillment, imo.

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@JW Insider This last paragraph of yours really hit home to me. I hadn't even considered those points. Thank you.

Back to the top of your comment :-

Quote  and that there is more evidence for it than Noah had that there would be a Flood. 

Noah's direction / instruction came directly from God. And the direction proved true. 

¹³  After that God said to Noah: “I have decided to put an end to all flesh, because the earth is full of violence on account of them, so I am bringing them to ruin together with the earth. ¹⁴  Make for yourself an ark* from resinous wood.l You will make compartments in the ark and cover it with tar inside and outside. ¹⁵  This is how you will make it: The ark should be 300 cubits* long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high. ¹⁶  You will make a window for light* for the ark, one cubit from the top. You should put the entrance of the ark in its siden and make it with a lower deck, a second deck, and a third deck.¹⁷  “As for me, I am going to bring floodwatersoupon the earth to destroy from under the heavens all flesh that has the breath of life.* Everything on the earth will perish.p ¹⁸  And I am establishing my covenant with you, and you must go into the ark, you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you.

So you are saying that Rutherford was spoken to directly by God ? No I don't think you are.  You are saying that Rutherford took it upon himself to pretend to know what the future was. And he was wrong. Now for him to believe personally was one thing, but to put it forward as 'fact' was a lie. Because he knew he was not inspired by God's Holy Spirit. 

Did you, John, never say something that was not true, because you really believed it was true at the time, and then found out later that it wasn't? Were you lying?

Yes many times when i was a servant of the JW Org. And yes I was lying. Because I did not 'make sure of all things' first.

 But there is no single group called the FDS. If you know this then you are saying that the GB are lying. Are you saying that God has given you more insight that God has given to the GB ? If it is plain to you that the F&DS is not a small group of men, then why isn't it plain to the GB ? 

It's not about whether we claim to be anointed or not, it's about being faithful until the end.

Once again I will differ with you on this point. Didn't the Israelites once 'demand' to have an earthly king ?

Humans need to be guided by other humans it seems. And it makes sense to have an earthly part of God's organisation. But this earthly part needs pure guidance. If God sees it as good to have men to lead the way here on earth, then imo  God will provide men who are pure in heart. And once again imo those men will be the Anointed ones, brothers of Christ. Sons, to receive an inheritance.  

Your idea of being faithful until the end, but faithful to whom ?  If we reject the GB and it's orgs, that does not mean we reject God and Christ. The GB and it's orgs have proved themselves to be not worthy of trust. They say they are not inspired of God's Holy Spirit. In fact they have proves such by their actions. Even their lawyers tell lies in courts. 

The GB has shown no love to victims of CSA and seems to have caused more problems than they have solved in many ways. But that is just my opinion, oh and possibly the opinion of thousands of others  

 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I'd say that Rutherford, the "chairman" and primary member of the "Governing Body" that had begun in 1919, must have truly believed in 1925. Similarly with several remaining mistakes --still based on a faulty set of chronology beliefs-- the current GB are not lying, they are mistaken.

Did you, John, never say something that was not true, because you really believed it was true at the time, and then found out later that it wasn't? Were you lying?

You highlight very good, important thing.

If somebody truly believe in some idea, own idea or idea from other source, or if somebody "read particular idea" from other people words, statements, views and so on... then, if he individually spread such idea to other people in "good faith", he is not "lying", but he can be one in a chain of those who unknowingly/unconsciously spreading misleading/mistake. Because he thinking about that same (false) thing as truthful and real, as something good and worth to have.

What happened when this person repeatedly doing this "unconscious spreading" of same Principe (Principe of various errors in different time point, through his life time)? If he never come to flash of light and come to be "conscious" about such repeated (spiritual) behavioral pattern in himself and in other to whom he show respect and trust, than he is deceived and blind to see. 

But if source of errors and if the receiver of the errors continue to doing this, and in same moment something inside them/him sending warning signals, this is time to make A/The Stop (or simple to STOP). Because if he didn't ...it can be said how from that Point he/they begins to spread a lie, on purpose /even with various levels of power and strength of persuasion.         

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Yes many times when i was a servant of the JW Org. And yes I was lying. Because I did not 'make sure of all things' first.

We, ex JW's, were all been part of this, and told to people in preaching service things that we now consider untrue and in fact lies (no matter about motives of those who generate some teaching, doctrine, dogma, instruction). 

As to "make sure of all things". I think, at first thought, how this process in individual, personal work (study, deeper thinking, searching ...etc) about something, some religious subject, has been limited by/because of our exposure to WTJWORG influence, our naive trust in people who "knew more", our believe and too much confidence in interpretations made in publications. Well, in fact we are making our selves to be sure of - in all things presented in WT magazines and books :)))   

To do this "make sure" work, JW's should go in all directions for searching to answers and for pro et contra argumentation. It is Wrong Idea/Perspective, how JW already found The Truth, so Why going uselessly to spend time and effort in additional verification, when Bible Scholars already done research in Betel? So, when from platform they say, by quoting Bible verse - "make sure of all things", they don't encourage you to go for INDEPENDENT sources, but to reading more and more of WT publication.

Somehow, John, You and I, get out from this Circle. :)) and some other people here too, to not forget to tell. :))

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Srecko Sostar You are right. The only research i did when i was a JW, was in JW books and magazines. It was like being brainwashed.  

What i cannot understand is some people on here know that the GB and the Watchtower / JW Org are wrong, but they stay in the JW org.  They must have their reasons for staying in but i could not do it. 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

and by whose standards.

By God's standards and they are the only standards that matter. And I never said 'everyone' I said some people. 

God has granted us all the ability to reason and to judge, otherwise we would be robots. We all make judgements every day I would imagine. We might call them decisions but those decisions arrive by our making judgements on matters or even judgements on people. 

I had to make a judgement when I was deciding to leave the JW Org. Three months research, not three minutes. So it was a judgement i made, not in haste, but in taking time to think about, and pray about, my part in an organisation that i knew in my heart was wrong.  

Some people on this forum actually agree with me on some of my findings, and they even give me fresh information that i knew nothing about, but they prefer to stay inside the JW org. So 'God has not given me any more that he has given others' in this respect. Many people know about the GB's / JW Org's failings and deliberate lies, but some of those people prefer to be part of it. I know not why. 

you will ultimately be judged by God more severely more so for leading his children astray

It is your opinion that JW's are God's 'children', nothing more than your opinion. 

 

[Witness]

48 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Explain, How God exalted you to a position of great responsibility that you will ultimately be judged by God more severely more so for leading his children astray by making such a definitive claim of superiority that god himself has not granted any of the above by their own actions and behavior. Please! Enlighten me on this marvel, thanks!

Explain, how God has exalted YOU to a position of great responsibility, that YOU will ultimately be judged by God more severely for leading people astray, by making your own definitive claim of superiority and righteousness over everyone else on this forum...that God Himself has not granted YOU by your own actions and behavior.  

Please.  Enlighten me on this marvel.  

You can live with Watchtower's sins.  Many of us cannot.   

Don’t envy the evil
or desire to be with them,
 for their hearts plan violence,
and their words stir up trouble.  Prov 24:1

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

FOXNEWSFLASH !  -  June 18, 2019  -  Sydney Australia

In a hidden saltwater lake suspected to have thousands of miles of flooded  underground lava tubes to the Pacific Ocean,   in Central Australia, near Olympic Dam,  known for its high yield Uranium deposits, Forensic Anthropologists discover living precursors to modern day Kangaroos.

Stunning high resolution photos indicate these may have been the Kangaroos that left Australia approximately 4,000 years ago, and swam the Pacific Ocean to mainland Asia, and then hopped many thousands of miles across plains, forests , mountains, swamps, raging rivers and amber waves of grain to the Middle East to become passengers on Noah's Ark.

When asked, Dr. Walter Brotherman, of the Sydney Theological Institute stated "This proves the Bible record is correct, as currently understood by everyone in Christendom,  and that supposed "solid evidence" that Australia has never been deluged is completely false."

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

*coff*