WHITEWASH

[Witness]

10 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I am asking you WHO is the destroyer, I did not ask you to quote verses.

 

10 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Which brings us back to the question. Who was the destroyer?

 

10 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

12 hours ago, Witness said:

He allows Satan the Destroyer, to strike. 

Should I spell it out for you?  According to you, I am ignorant, foolish and stupid;  very unchristian-like.  Should I call you ignorant, foolish and stupid because you cannot see that I have indeed, told you who the Destroyer is, using the scriptures to prove it?

Those who are spiritual "Israel" are outlined in scripture:

Gal.6:15,16:  "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God."

Rom 2:28,29:   "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."

Rom 4:13:   "For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith."

Gal 3:7: "Therefore know that only those who are of faith of Abraham, are sons of Abraham."

John 8:39:   "Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham."

Rom 4: 11:  "And Abraham received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also"

Those who are "Israel" share the faith of righteous Abraham, receiving the circumcision of the heart, by Jesus Christ.

Col  2:11: "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ".

This comes upon a person, through an anointing.  With that circumcision of the heart, God's laws are written upon it. 

Heb 8:10:  "This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."

1 Pet 2:9,10 - "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy."

They are the anointed priesthood.  They are "Israel". 

1 Pet 2:5 -  "Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."

As I said and which you have successfully twisted, the Great Crowd are the anointed, "called, chosen and faithful" remnant - a segment of the total "144,000" who come out of the Tribulation, upholding Truth.  If you would like to know any more (although you appear to be exceedingly confident in knowing the scriptures backwards and forward;  the invitation is to all)  go here: http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/07/who-are-144000.html

(Thank you, Librarian, for allowing me to post the link)

 

 

[Space Merchant]

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

Should I spell it out for you? 

You can spell it out all you, want, but all things must be in accordance to what the Bible message conveys.

God never [and never has] allowed Satan to have dealings with King Hezekiah, David, nor did he have Satan have dealings with the Israelites. In Hezekiah’s case, what holds you at fault is the existence of the Assyrians attempt to cover up what happened that day, both written and physical evidence in this regard - thus putting you in err.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

According to you, I am ignorant, foolish and stupid;  very unchristian-like. 

Because you are ignorant. If God says or does something, who are we to go around his Word, let alone take and or add to it, which is against God's Law? We already see an example with Spiritual Israel whereas not only you ignored those of the spiritual house and insist only the chosen ones are of this house, you deliberately stated there is no Bible evidence to what is said, and yet we have everything concerning the New Covenant in the Bible as evidence. In addition to that, you were the one who originally discussed those of the Spiritual House months ago, only this time, you decided to cut out those in union with the Christ and proclaim only the chosen ones make up this fold, which this claim negates what we see at Pentecost and elsewhere.

And no, it is not un-christian to call out the truth in the face of lies. For instance, if someone such as yourself preaches defilement of God's Order, a real Christian would speak in refutation to your false doctrine, with Biblical support to back it up.

Therefore, I see no reason for a follower of the Christ, a man of God to speak up, defending the New Covenant with full force.

That being said, so it is ignorance, willfulness, when the Bible informs you on Spiritual Israel.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

Should I call you ignorant, foolish and stupid because you cannot see that I have indeed, told you who the Destroyer is, using the scriptures to prove it?

But you haven’t, you merely see "Destroyer" and say it is Satan without looking into the passage in question. In this sense, you pointed to the idea that God somehow allowed Satan to do whatever concerning Hezekiah and concerning Israel. Why would God’s own adversary, who caused Adam and Eve to disobey Him, somehow help God every single instant, when it is he who is both slanderer and resister?

You haven’t proven anything because I asked you who the destroyer is. The Bible even tells you that the Destroyer in both situations is an Angel of God. If we want to get fancy we can take up 1 Corinthians 10:10, which points back to Israel under temptation, which is a direct mention of Numbers 11:19, 20 and 31-35.

Some other examples,

2 Samuel 24:15 - So the Lord sent a pestilence on Israel from the morning until the appointed time. And there died of the people from Dan to Beersheba 70,000 men.

Note: Due to a King's error, the punishment received due to sin was 3 days of pestilence.

• 1 Chronicles 21:15  - And God sent the angel to Jerusalem to destroy it, but as he was about to destroy it, the Lord saw, and he relented from the calamity. And he said to the angel who was working destruction, “It is enough; now stay your hand.” And the angel of the Lord was standing by the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.

Note: This angel was sent by God, and it was seen by David according to verse 1 Chronicles 21:16, for it stood between the earth and the heaven, with a drawn sword in his hand stretched out against Jerusalem.

• 2 Kings 19:35 - And that night the angel of the Lord went out and struck down 185,000 in the camp of the Assyrians. And when people arose early in the morning, behold, these were all dead bodies.

Note: An angel kills 185,000 men of King Sennacherib's Assyrian army, thereby saving King Hezekiah and Jerusalem.

Even the references point to the truth in this regard:

• 2 Chronicles 32:21 - And the Lord sent an angel, who cut off all the mighty warriors and commanders and officers in the camp of the king of Assyria. So he returned with shame of face to his own land. And when he came into the house of his god, some of his own sons struck him down there with the sword.
• Isaiah 31:8 - “And the Assyrian shall fall by a sword, not of man; and a sword, not of man, shall devour him; and he shall flee from the sword, and his young men shall be put to forced labor.

So your claim is incorrect, for the only Destroyer here is an angel who was sent (Shaliach Principle; of which they are ALWAYS UNDER), in Hezekiah's case, one Destroyer was the Assyrian Army, the other, being the angel sent by God, as Isaiah 33:1 points out for directly speaking about Assyria.

That being said, in none of these verses, does it point out, that this angel was Satan, for only you are making these claims.

More so, you haven't answered the question from out last discussion, as how can you give a  prisoner the key to his own cell?

As far as anyone knows, Satan the Devil is not under Shaliach Principle, he is against God, and he does not serve God. Even when Jesus told him that it is only to God sacred service must be rendered, we already can read of how that turned out. Matthew 4: 10 and Luke 4:8 (God's Law Exo. 20:3, Deut. 5:9, Deut. 6:13 [Shema], Deut. 10:20)

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

Those who are spiritual "Israel" are outlined in scripture:

We already know who Spiritual Israel is. The problem is, you purposefully ignore that Spiritual Israel consist of all of God’s people, not solely and only the chosen ones as you proclaim, which puts your past statements into contradiction concerning the Spiritual House, that of Spiritual Jerusalem.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

Gal.6:15,16:  "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God."

And you have proven my point, look at the reference.

The new creation belongs to all, not only the chosen ones as you claim. As is with God's Israel, is for all, those on earth and those who are chosen. Therefore, this verse only shows you to be incorrect from your main response concerning Spiritual Israel.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

Rom 2:28,29:   "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."

Exactly, and correct. But granted your main response, you do not truly agree with this verse, if you ignored those who are not chosen, but are still in union with Jesus Christ.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

Rom 4:13:   "For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith."

Exactly. The heirs are both the chosen ones and those who will reside on the earth itself and cultivate it, but again, you stated that only the chosen ones are of Spiritual Israel, ignoring those who are to cultivate the earth, the same people who they themselves have faith in and are in union with Jesus - the reason why your response is put into question.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

Gal 3:7: "Therefore know that only those who are of faith of Abraham, are sons of Abraham."

Correct, for we are the heirs, all of us, union with the Christ, all of us, in the Spiritual House, all of us are in the New Covenant.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

John 8:39:   "Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham."

Jesus is speaking to Jews who were under bad influence, and this verse not as relevant to what is at hand, thus the claim of mixing verse of which you have been accused of many many times is evident. Jesus made a point here concerning the whole passage at hand and his talk with the Jews, that his Father is different from their Father. They were unaware of what Jesus met, despite them continuously claiming that their Father is Abraham, a friend of God, more so, since they are literally his descendants, they felt that they are of the same faith Abraham.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

Rom 4: 11:  "And Abraham received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also"

And this is where my point stands and there is Biblical support to such in which you had said there is nothing.

Understanding what the Bible conveys about the New Covenant, concerning Abraham, he [Abraham] is the Father not only of his natural and or biological offsprings who were loyal and faithful to God, but rather, of ALL followers and disciples of Jesus Christ – The point in which I conveying with Bible support, the same notion of which you reject, but ignoring those who are in union with Christ and your continuously ignorance on those who are not of the chosen ones, but still followers of Jesus Christ.

In that verse, Apostle Paul points out that Abraham began to show faith before undergoing circumcision, hence what is conveyed in the previous verse, Romans 4:10

How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.

For this reason, this made Abraham the Father of uncircumcised non-Jews, which are obviously referred to as Gentiles, and these Gentiles, who are heirs of the promise according to Galatians, are the same ones who put their  faith in our Christ who is Lord,  Jesus. Therefore, the Church of the Christ is a diversity of Jews and Gentiles, in this regard, in Rome and it is further to the fact that their faith, as well as their obedience prompts them to call Abraham their Father.

• Romans 4:17 - as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.

Which can be traced back to Genesis 17:5 regarding what God had told Abraham, that he will make Abraham a father of many nations. For from this promise was the very reason God had changed the name of his friend, from A’bram (Abram) [אַבְרָם] to Abraham [Heb. אברהם], meaning “Father of many [a Crowd/multitude"], evidence to his name can be seen here in the Strong's: https://biblehub.com/hebrew/87.htm

That being said, we know that Abraham was the Father of Issac, as well as the Father of Ishmael, who he himself fathered 12 chieftains, more so, many would say that Arabs originated with Ishmael.

The promise consists of not solely chosen ones, it consist of all followers of the Christ – again, do not ignore those who are of God’s people, consider them, for they too are of the New Covenant.

Romans 4:16 - That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

Those who are "Israel" share the faith of righteous Abraham, receiving the circumcision of the heart, by Jesus Christ.

Exactly, but those of Spiritual consist of all persons in union with the Christ. But you had professed earlier that only the chosen ones are of Spiritual Israel, missing the mark on what the New Covenant is all about.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

Col  2:11: "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ".

If you read the passage, you’d realize that those of whom Apostle Paul was message was towards every single person in the church of his fellow friend who is in Christ (Philemon 23). The Letter of Apostle Paul to the Colossians, also called The Epistle of St. Paul the Apostle to the Colossians and it was developed theology of the letter, many believe, indicates that it was composed by Paul in Rome about and or around 60-62 AD. The Greek New Testament writing was addressed to the Christians at Colossae, Asia Minor, whose church congregation was founded by Paul’s colleague, Epaphras (who remained in Rome at the time), who was a minister of high faith and a follower of Jesus Christ, a preacher the good news gospel, acquainted the Colossians with the kindness of God, and the very focus and or foundation of towards establishing the church congregation in Colossae (Colossians 1:4-8).

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

This comes upon a person, through an anointing.  With that circumcision of the heart, God's laws are written upon it. 

Not really, considering the Church of Colossae consisted of all persons, the whole church were not chosen ones of God, pockets of them among the fold were followers of the Christ, and worshipers of God and they themselves were still having some issues, granted the early days of this church.

There is more to it, if you considered the letter in full.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

Heb 8:10:  "This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."

Which proves my point. God’s people consist of every single person in the Spiritual House, all of whom, who are under the New Covenant.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

1 Pet 2:9,10 - "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy."

Which proves my point even more, as is what we had originally discussed.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

They are the anointed priesthood.  They are "Israel". 

It is not unknown and or alien to anyone that the Priesthood are of the New Covenant as well, likewise to the the meek ones. They too are of Spiritual Israel, as is with God’s people, who make up those who will inherit the earth itself. For if you had forgotten, the chosen ones are not the only ones who uphold faith in Jesus and worship his God. Remember what Paul made mention of, those of the nations who are heirs? Of course not. Read Galatians another time.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

1 Pet 2:5 -  "Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."

And the only Temple of God belongs to both, this alone puts your original statement on your other thread concerning the Spiritual House into contradiction, for, you even pointed out that all those in union with the Christ are of this house, which I agreed with, at the same time correcting you are your mixing of verses. And now we see here you go over what you had said originally, which shows you do not fully grasp what this verse conveys.

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

As I said and which you have successfully twisted, the Great Crowd are the anointed, "called, chosen and faithful" remnant - a segment of the total "144,000" who come out of the Tribulation, upholding Truth.

I haven’t twisted for speaking the truth. You yourself had twisted the truth by purposely not acknowledging the fact that the New Covenant consist of ALL of God’s people who have faith in Jesus, but you preach that it is only the chosen ones who are of Spiritual Israel. Therefore, you had twisted the truth, more so, even much we can go back to your other thread to see how much in err you truly are.

Another point is, you claim that there is no biblical and or scriptural support concerning the New Covenant, and yet it is there in the Bible, mentioned in the Old Testament, and mentioned again as well as set in motion in the New Testament, which shows here, you truly do not know 100% what the New Covenant even is, resulting in what I stated to you earlier before you deviated from the question at hand.

Therefore, you claim that you are chosen, but do not recognize the heirs that sit in the same house as you, the same temple? How can you be chosen and have this type of mindset, let alone cherry pick and or twist the very things of God?

That being said, if you really upheld the truth, you would not speak slander and buy into lies only to later come with some excuse, this is concerning all of the discussions with you, more so, another, who also says he is chosen put you to question in an older thread.

After all, you made did speak an untruth concerning the discussion, when you said the following:

On 7/18/2019 at 11:13 PM, Witness said:

Dear Sir, I see no scriptures to support your words, yet you are telling me I need to focus on the Bible itself. 

and

On 7/21/2019 at 8:56 PM, Witness said:

So, you are telling me that you do know spiritual "Israel" applies only to the anointed ones, according to the first link provided.  (SM does not believe this) 

But as we can see, I do believe and always will believe what the New Covenant entails, and will always defend it, as seen here before you made such slander

The irony of it all, although you tried put yourself in err regarding Spiritual Israel, you slipped up on your own proclamation on page 1.

 

On 7/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, Witness said:

If you would like to know any more (although you appear to be exceedingly confident in knowing the scriptures backwards and forward;  the invitation is to all)  go here: http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/07/who-are-144000.html

We do not need links, we solely need the Bible. Also, your link only addresses the chosen ones, the focus here is Spiritual Israel, all of God's people.

That being said, the questions addressed to you, I rather you answer them.

Because if the Bible speaks truth about those in the New Covenant, and you say something different – who is truly at fault here?

For you had already lied by telling the boy I do not believe what the New Covenant conveys, when I had told you what it was all about even before you made that lie, more so, even in the past, I was vocal about the New Covenant, as is with those in it who are doing the Commission. Therefore, it cannot be believed that you are of the chosen ones, and if I had to compare you to someone, Warrior of Christ, who is legitimately one of the chosen ones, he himself, while in life, knew very well what the New Covenant is, and unlike you, he does not ignore his brother and or sister who is in union with the Christ.

But, since you insist... You can address the questions, because they still remain unanswered:

Quote

• That being said, you made the mistake that stating the Bible, and or there is no Scriptural Support for the New Covenant concerning Spiritual Israel. How does your claim add up when there is Scriptural Evidence concerning such?
• Second, you speak of Spiritual Israel, and yet you ignore the heirs. Why only mention the chosen ones, but not God's people also, in which the Kingdom of God is for them also? What is the reason to single them out and ignore that they are of the same Spiritual House? Remember, yous aid it before, that Christians are in union with the Christ...
• Lastly, you claim you never watered down Jesus' Kingship, and yet there are comments from you, even you posting a picture when you questioned Judith. Did you purposely forget what God's original purpose and will concerning mankind was all about, and how his only begotten son fairs into the mix?
• Who was the Destroyer found in verses 13 and 23 of Exodus 12 according to you?

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

They too are of Spiritual Israel, as is with God’s people, who make up those who will inherit the earth itself.

I notice that this has come up a few times with you, (and two others here, also, btw) where you indicate how important it is to believe that that Spiritual Israel is not just made up of those who will live in heaven, but that Spiritual Israel is also made up of those who inherit the earth.

I don't know how closely you want to associate yourself directly with the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, but this is one area in which you differ, even though you have gone to great pains to defend even the most minor of our teachings in other areas.

I was wondering if you actually think that your view differs from Witnesses here, or if you perhaps have given thought to the direction that a couple of recent Watchtowers have apparently indicated. These recent Watchtowers have not stated that Spiritual Israel is also made up of those who inherit the earth, but they have gone much further in blurring the line between those with a heavenly calling and those with an earthly calling.

For example, here is the most typical statements from 2014 and 1999:

*** w14 10/15 p. 16 par. 11 You Will Become “a Kingdom of Priests” ***
The total number of those in the new covenant would be 144,000, making up a new nation—“the Israel of God”—spiritual Israel.

*** w99 8/15 p. 27 Benefiting From “the Grain of Heaven” ***
The majority of those who benefit from Jesus’ ransom will enjoy everlasting life on a paradise earth. “A great crowd” of these—prefigured by the “vast mixed company” of aliens who joined the Israelites in their Exodus from Egypt—will survive the coming “great tribulation” that will rid the earth of all wickedness. (Revelation 7:9, 10, 14; Exodus 12:38) An even greater reward is enjoyed by those whom the Israelites themselves foreshadowed. The apostle Paul described these ones, numbering 144,000, as constituting the spiritual Israel of God. Their reward at death is a resurrection to life in heaven. (Galatians 6:16; Hebrews 3:1; Revelation 14:1) There Jesus will give them a special kind of manna.

However, in 2016, the most recent Watchtower article that mentions "spirtual Israel" there is no specific delineation between a heavenly spiritual Israel and the earthly class.

*** ws16 March pp. 26-27 pars. 10-12 Jehovah Guides His People in the Way of Life ***
Jehovah had given the Mosaic Law to the Israelites to teach them how to live and worship him. Beginning in the first century, God’s people were no longer from one nation but from many nations and backgrounds, and they were called spiritual Israel. They formed the Christian congregation and were under a new covenant. Jehovah gave them new or expanded instructions on how to live and worship him. Truly, “God is not partial, but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.” (Acts 10:34, 35) They followed “the law of the Christ,” which was based mainly on principles that were written, not on stone, but on their hearts. This law would guide and benefit Christians wherever they lived.—Galatians 6:2.
11 Spiritual Israel benefited greatly from Jehovah’s guidance through Jesus. Just before he introduced the new covenant, Jesus gave two important commands. One was about the preaching work. The other was about the way Christians should act and treat one another. These instructions were for all Christians, so they apply to all of us today, whether we hope to live forever in heaven or on earth.
12 In the past, people of the nations had to come to Israel to serve Jehovah. (1 Kings 8:41-43) But then Jesus gave the command that we find at Matthew 28:19, 20. (Read.) Jesus told his disciples to “go” to all people.

Of course, the article never says that spritual Israel includes those who hope to live forever on earth. It can easily be read in the same sense as all previous articles on the topic. (In 2011, another article on spiritual Israel made the point that certain statements from Jesus would apply to those with either the earthly or heavenly hope:

*** w11 9/15 p. 12 pars. 4-5 Are You Letting Jehovah Be Your Share? ***
And they set a good example for those who hope to live on a paradise earth.
5 Whether we have the heavenly hope or an earthly one, we must ‘disown ourselves and pick up our torture stake and continually follow Christ.’ (Matt. 16:24) Millions who look forward to life in Paradise on earth are worshipping God and following Christ in that way.

I believe that those responsible for writing the Watchtower are well aware of the potential that a 'well-stocked' GB from the anointed class could become harder to come by in the next 40 years, and we may end up with a smaller and smaller GB, even if the numbers of those counted as anointed continues to rise. So I would expect more future articles that make the same point as above, and which might even expand on those things that we once applied only to the "anointed." After all, Jesus didn't really say that his instructions were for persons from both the anointed and the other sheep, as this is just an assumption about something Jesus never said. But it's probably a very good assumption.

To me, so far, the actual point is only that there may be additional work once seen as only that of the GB that will become the work of "other sheep" and we need to get used to the idea. But the above quotes and other related quotes do NOT give me the impression that the actual doctrine of the makeup of "spiritual Israel" has changed.

So I guess the best way to put the question is this: Do you really think that Spirtual Israel is made up both the earthly class and the heavenly class?

[Space Merchant]

@JW Insider Yes. Spiritual Israel is made up of all of God's people, all under one teaching of the Christ, all in union with Christ, and like him, they too have the fullness of God dwelling in them, and each and every single one of them dwell in the Spiritual House as is with God's Temple, that is, the Christ.

I have my reasons for defending even the minor things of the New Covenant due to how mainstream Christendom has tainted it, and I am not the only one who defends such as well. And there are those who speak wrongly of the Covenant wrongly, and far worse and in this regard, the correction by means of the Bible must be made.

But for someone to not recognize those who are in the same house, it is an insult for those who share in the same teachings that stem from Christ, Jesus.

The fact we no longer require stone tablets or animal sacrifices should be evident.

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Spiritual Israel is made up of all of God's people

I get it. I just wanted to make sure you knew whether or not you were disagreeing with the current Watchtower position on the topic. You appear to be disagreeing with the Witness doctrine.

[Srecko Sostar]

6 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

We do not need links, we solely need the Bible.

:)))) 

[Witness]

7 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

It appears some don’t understand, the 144,000 are “comprised” of all the nations of the earth. Who will go to heaven if not the 144,000? The same members from all the nations of this earth.

Agree! So, who is it that doesn’t understand?  It isn’t me.

7 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

In “witness” case, this person clearly wants to see a different composition of anointed to be more reflective with the original royal priesthood. The irony there is of course the ancestry. Anyone in any given nation can have ties to the royal priesthood. Does that mean, they automatically make up the anointed going to heaven? NO! Not all that say lord! Lord! Will enter God’s Heavenly Kingdom. Matthew 7:21

This is a spiritual priesthood, not a fleshly one, according to the natural Jewish ancestry.  Is this what you are thinking?  I have NEVER said it was based on a literal Jewish ancestry.  

"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. ¹⁰ Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy."  1 Pet 2:9,10

Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too.  Rom 3:29

 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.  Rom 9:6

 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all!Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.  For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.  Rom 11:11,15,16

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing."  John 15:5

He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.James 1:18

 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”  Rev 17:14

You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
    and they will reign on the earth.”  Rev 5:10

Spiritual "Israel" as the royal anointed priesthood, are people from all physical nations of the world.

edit:  I should say - from various nations and nationalities throughout the world.   

 

[Witness]

On 7/17/2019 at 6:41 AM, Witness said:

As the New Covenant/promise of life, the Bride, the firstborn of God, brings life to the rest of God’s children when united with her “Husband”. James 1:18; Rev 14:4; 21:2,3,9,10; 22:17 If God calls all His children, “Israel” in the Kingdom, so be it.

 

On 7/21/2019 at 5:56 PM, Witness said:

This is the fulfilled New Covenant as the Bride, “coming down from heaven” Rev 21:1-4 

@Space Merchant :  Another point is, you claim that there is no biblical and or scriptural support concerning the New Covenant, and yet it is there in the Bible, mentioned in the Old Testament, and mentioned again as well as set in motion in the New Testament, which shows here, you truly do not know 100% what the New Covenant even is, resulting in what I stated to you earlier before you deviated from the question at hand.

  I am done with your rambling and lies.  

[Witness]

12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

These recent Watchtowers have not stated that Spiritual Israel is also made up of those who inherit the earth, but they have gone much further in blurring the line between those with a heavenly calling and those with an earthly calling.

Ezek 44:23; Mal 2:7; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2

[Srecko Sostar]

18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

These recent Watchtowers have not stated that Spiritual Israel is also made up of those who inherit the earth, but they have gone much further in blurring the line between those with a heavenly calling and those with an earthly calling.

You never know what can be from "blurring". Maybe they prepare terrain for introducing "new light" how 144000 will stay on Earth and rule above Earthly class from much closer distance. 

Of course, this idea would be acceptable too. Because New Government Administration is better to be seen with literal eyes of Subjects,  than with spiritual imagination. :))

[Equivocation]

10 hours ago, Witness said:

 

@Space Merchant :  Another point is, you claim that there is no biblical and or scriptural support concerning the New Covenant, and yet it is there in the Bible, mentioned in the Old Testament, and mentioned again as well as set in motion in the New Testament, which shows here, you truly do not know 100% what the New Covenant even is, resulting in what I stated to you earlier before you deviated from the question at hand.

  I am done with your rambling and lies.  

He isn't lying tho. He posted the verses on page 1-2 about it, starting with the book of Jeremiah and into who mediates in the New Testament. Even mentioned Jehovah's Promise to Abraham. 

Pentecost 33 A.D. shows you what went down  after Jesus' death and ressrrection in Acts 2 and throughout the New Testament, especially about Paul, it talks about people being in Christ, it isn't just the anointed class, but everyone.

Plus, you said in your other post about the great crowd. So either you met this or you slipped up.

If he was lying, you'd have to show what he is lying about or how he is lying, majority of what he said is legit, like, brand new nikes not sold in stores legit jaja.

[Equivocation]

@BillyTheKid46 lol. The Assyrian King is also mentioned as the Destroyer too. But the thing with him is the Destroyer will/has been destroyed by another Destroyer. 

@Space Merchant What are the other beliefs that people have about it?