"WATCHTOWER APPEALS TO THE SUPREME COURT"

[Witness]

From John Redwood...

A preview of upcoming news:

Jehovah's Witnesses are appealing to the Supreme Court of the United States, but this time it has nothing to do with preaching or saluting the flag.

It's all about child abuse.

Specifically, the protection (or cover-up) of information, documents, and testimony of persons involved in cases of child abuse.

I will be covering this story in the coming weeks and months, but I thought I would share some of this news and try to distill it down as simply as I can.

I'd like to point out first that Watchtower has appealed to the Supreme Court in connection with their loss of yet another California child abuse case. The chance that Watchtower's appeal being will be heard by the Supreme Court is slim, but anything is possible.

What brought this about?

There are many ongoing civil child abuse cases in California. One such case is J.W. versus Watchtower. J.W. happens to be the initials for the victim of former JW elder Gilbert Simental, who went on a spree of molestation which touched the lives of numerous victims.

As with other cases, the plaintiff demanded that Watchtower turn over to the court a database of child abuse cases known to be maintained by Watchtower of New York.

In this particular case, because Watchtower failed to turn over the documents in a timely manner, attorneys asked for a default judgment of just over 4 million dollars.

The court agreed with the plaintiff and entered a default judgment in that amount. Watchtower was required to post a bond of more than 6 million dollars while their appeal was pending.

Watchtower lost their appeal, and the decision of the court was upheld. This decision is final- with one exception.

Watchtower has decided to appeal to the United States Supreme court on the basis that their judicial hearings related to child abuse matters are "confidential intra-faith communications" and that they do not, and should not, reveal those communications or documents to anyone, including civil courts.

I'd like to make it very clear what Watchtower is doing here. They are fighting for their right NOT to allow civil authorities to dictate what is confidential, and what is not confidential.

All of this is in relation to their claim that elders do not have the right or duty to report child abuse to the authorities.

Watchtower overtly lies to their members by claiming that they obey secular laws, except when they conflict with God's laws.

Yet they break the law every single time by advising elders NOT to report child abuse to the authorities.

It does NOT matter whether child abuse occurs in a mandatory reporting state- elders STILL do not report to the police because Watchtower has told them that ALL of their communications are protected by clergy-penitent privilege.

This is false- and it is exactly why they are losing tens of millions of dollars in child abuse civil cases. Watchtower advises elders to break the law.

And now they want the Supreme Court of the United States to agree with them.

The claim that the state of California has unfairly targeted Jehovah's Witnesses and "intruded upon matters of church governance."

Why???

How does compliance with mandatory child abuse reporting laws conflict with God's laws? It doesn't. This is a fabrication of Watchtower attorneys working for the Governing Body, and it's become quite clear that they feel that compliance with these civil laws will spell disaster for their religion.

And they might be right.

If Jehovah's Witnesses did the right thing and complied with the law, they would lose the tight grip of control over their elder bodies in ways which frighten the hell out of them.

There is a whole lot more to this story as well as the underlying cases involved, but I wanted to let you know what's going on.

Attorneys for J.W. (the abuse victim) will be filing an opposition to Watchtower's appeal in August, and we should have a decision from the Supreme Court by October on whether they will accept Jehovah's Witnesses appeal for review.

Stay tuned!!

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/chtj2j/watchtower_appeals_to_supreme_court/

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Witness:

I am deeply ashamed for the reputation of Jehovah, and the Brotherhood that the Governing Body has Lawyers that will spare no effort, time, and money to PERVERT Justice.

I wish you were lying or agenda driven, but I know from independent research everything you said here is true .... and that there is more, besides that.

Thanks for the vigilance.

[Anna]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

As with other cases, the plaintiff demanded that Watchtower turn over to the court a database of child abuse cases known to be maintained by Watchtower of New York.

This is puzzling. Why should the plaintiff have the right to demand anything that had nothing to do with his case?

1 hour ago, Witness said:

and it's become quite clear that they feel that compliance with these civil laws will spell disaster for their religion.

I wouldn't go that far.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

If Jehovah's Witnesses did the right thing and complied with the law, they would lose the tight grip of control over their elder bodies in ways which frighten the hell out of them.

I have no idea what John Redwood is talking about here. Perhaps I should ask him.

If elders became mandatory reporters, how would that affect anything? It would just mean that every future case, or suspicion of child abuse or accusation would be reported to the police. How would that be losing a tight grip on the elders?

It appears that the main reason for the appeal is that this would allow for non disclosure of historical cases, and hence limit law suits.

[Colin Browne]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

From John Redwood...

A preview of upcoming news:

Jehovah's Witnesses are appealing to the Supreme Court of the United States, but this time it has nothing to do with preaching or saluting the flag.

It's all about child abuse.

Specifically, the protection (or cover-up) of information, documents, and testimony of persons involved in cases of child abuse.

I will be covering this story in the coming weeks and months, but I thought I would share some of this news and try to distill it down as simply as I can.

I'd like to point out first that Watchtower has appealed to the Supreme Court in connection with their loss of yet another California child abuse case. The chance that Watchtower's appeal being will be heard by the Supreme Court is slim, but anything is possible.

What brought this about?

There are many ongoing civil child abuse cases in California. One such case is J.W. versus Watchtower. J.W. happens to be the initials for the victim of former JW elder Gilbert Simental, who went on a spree of molestation which touched the lives of numerous victims.

As with other cases, the plaintiff demanded that Watchtower turn over to the court a database of child abuse cases known to be maintained by Watchtower of New York.

In this particular case, because Watchtower failed to turn over the documents in a timely manner, attorneys asked for a default judgment of just over 4 million dollars.

The court agreed with the plaintiff and entered a default judgment in that amount. Watchtower was required to post a bond of more than 6 million dollars while their appeal was pending.

Watchtower lost their appeal, and the decision of the court was upheld. This decision is final- with one exception.

Watchtower has decided to appeal to the United States Supreme court on the basis that their judicial hearings related to child abuse matters are "confidential intra-faith communications" and that they do not, and should not, reveal those communications or documents to anyone, including civil courts.

I'd like to make it very clear what Watchtower is doing here. They are fighting for their right NOT to allow civil authorities to dictate what is confidential, and what is not confidential.

All of this is in relation to their claim that elders do not have the right or duty to report child abuse to the authorities.

Watchtower overtly lies to their members by claiming that they obey secular laws, except when they conflict with God's laws.

Yet they break the law every single time by advising elders NOT to report child abuse to the authorities.

It does NOT matter whether child abuse occurs in a mandatory reporting state- elders STILL do not report to the police because Watchtower has told them that ALL of their communications are protected by clergy-penitent privilege.

This is false- and it is exactly why they are losing tens of millions of dollars in child abuse civil cases. Watchtower advises elders to break the law.

And now they want the Supreme Court of the United States to agree with them.

The claim that the state of California has unfairly targeted Jehovah's Witnesses and "intruded upon matters of church governance."

Why???

How does compliance with mandatory child abuse reporting laws conflict with God's laws? It doesn't. This is a fabrication of Watchtower attorneys working for the Governing Body, and it's become quite clear that they feel that compliance with these civil laws will spell disaster for their religion.

And they might be right.

If Jehovah's Witnesses did the right thing and complied with the law, they would lose the tight grip of control over their elder bodies in ways which frighten the hell out of them.

There is a whole lot more to this story as well as the underlying cases involved, but I wanted to let you know what's going on.

Attorneys for J.W. (the abuse victim) will be filing an opposition to Watchtower's appeal in August, and we should have a decision from the Supreme Court by October on whether they will accept Jehovah's Witnesses appeal for review.

Stay tuned!!

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/chtj2j/watchtower_appeals_to_supreme_court/

Seems you are referring to the case where our organisation was fined $20 million. Surely the governing body his taken this matter up with the person involved. I have been keeping a written document on this matter since. Our Society is within it's rights to protect itself against the transgression of one individual. Jehovah gave Jesus Judas as an apostle to suit his purpose. 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

Fantastic news. Perhaps Almighty God will cleanse the JW Org by removing the GB and replacing them, and removing the lawyers too. If God wants that database handed over it will be. 

I agree with James on one thing 'I am deeply ashamed for the reputation of Jehovah'

Does anyone on here really think this is good for Almighty God ?

Is it good for the preaching of the GOOD NEWS ? 

And do you really think Armageddon is close ? Ah, maybe you think Armageddon will get the GB/JW Org out of this mess.

I think LUKE 17 v 1 fits very well here.  

 “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come!"

@Anna & @TrueTomHarley and others, please get your heads out of the sand and see the true reality of your GB and it's Org. 

The truth is Almighty God has to either cleanse the JW Org, or, start a new one. And the JW Org does have some truth in it, deeply hidden but it's there. 

 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Witness:

I am deeply ashamed for the reputation of Jehovah, and the Brotherhood that the Governing Body has Lawyers that will spare no effort, time, and money to PERVERT Justice.

I wish you were lying or agenda driven, but I know from independent research everything you said here is true .... and that there is more, besides that.

Thanks for the vigilance.

@James Thomas Rook Jr.  Deeply ashamed for the reputation of Jehovah, yes, but the Brotherhood are part of the problem.

I always relate things to Hitler and Germany. Hitler could not have done what he did ON HIS OWN.

The GB and the Lawyers could not be doing what they are doing ON THEIR OWN. 

I left the JW Org because of the CSA Earthwide in the JW Org. If all JW's had done the same, if all contributions had stopped, or if JW's did their own research and then made it known in their congregations and took some form of action, then the GB and their Lawyers would have had far less power and far more to worry about. 

If all Elders had complained and stuck together and took some action Earthwide. But no.  JW's are either puppets, or too frightened to say or do anything. 

I know Jehovah will sort it all out, or start a new Org. But will He and Christ find a lot of guilty Bros and Sis in doing so. It is such a shame in what should be an Org dedicated to God. Every person in the ORG should be dedicated to serving Almighty God, but many are not. 

 

 

[Colin Browne]

The wheels of Jehovah's chariot will never stop making speedy turns in all directions.

Their appearance and structure looked as though a wheel were within a wheel.  When they moved, they could go in any of the four directions without turning as they went. Their rims were so high that they inspired awe, and the rims of all four were full of eyes all around.  Whenever the living creatures moved, the wheels would move along with them, and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels would also be lifted up.  They would go where the spirit inclined them to go, wherever the spirit went. The wheels would be lifted up together with them, for the spirit operating on the living creatures.

Ezekiel 1: 1-18.
 

[Srecko Sostar]

30 minutes ago, Colin Browne said:

The wheels of Jehovah's chariot will never stop making speedy turns in all directions.

It seems sometimes how this "chariot" making speedy turns in ALL Directions IN the Same Time  

[Witness]

7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Witness:

With Anna's help I believe you are now aware that John Redwood wrote this.  He is the same man who, with his wife, told their story in the Atlantic.    

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/the-secret-jehovahs-witness-database-of-child-molesters/584311/

[Witness]

7 hours ago, Anna said:

This is puzzling. Why should the plaintiff have the right to demand anything that had nothing to do with his case?

I do hope you will get your questions answered as this develops.  

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 

@Anna & @TrueTomHarley and others, please get your heads out of the sand

From “TrueTom vs the Apostates:”

Drive this matter of child sexual abuse to the Supreme Court, if need be. If they decide to hear it, it will be case number 50-something that Witnesses have tried before that body. Let it be resolved once and for all when the time is right. Many groups are driven to the edge these days over child sexual abuse, as it becomes almost the only issue that matters to some. Over such matters, the Boy Scouts are exploring bankruptcy proceedings. The Boy Scouts! who have long fought the evil but did not succeed in eliminating it. The Boy Scouts! who taught generations of boys to be responsible. The Boy Scouts! who I can’t walk the area trails without coming across historical kiosks or other amenities constructed as someone’s Eagle Scout project. The Boy Scouts! who when they were successfully sued on behalf of a single plaintiff in 2010 for $18.5 million, one of that person’s legal team stated his belief that they “have undertaken a truly noble and important task in mentoring young boys, for which they are to be commended,” and it was his sincere hope that the $18 million judgment “will impress upon them the need to do it better.” Now that he has driven them clear to insolvency, it will be a little hard for his dream to come true. Though groups as the Boy Scouts manifestly benefit children in ways not readily duplicated, their deep pockets permit a pummeling such as cannot be visited on unorganized segments of society, though it be every bit as accommodating to child sexual abuse—and without providing any benefit. It will be so with groups that instill religious values into youth as well.

 

1 hour ago, Witness said:

With Anna's help I believe you are now aware that John Redwood wrote this.  He is the same man who, with his wife, told their story in the Atlantic.    

Some elders wanted to meet with him afterwords, and he published their names, photos, and addresses. I wrote of it here:

 https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/04/he-has-blocked-me-i-think-that-says-it-all.html

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I do hope you will get your questions answered as this develops.  

Given how vested you are in this, it is surprising that you do not know

[JW Insider]

12 hours ago, Anna said:

It appears that the main reason for the appeal is that this would allow for non disclosure of historical cases, and hence limit law suits.

Any data that an organization keeps with respect to a policy or prior practice is always considered fair game in a lawsuit, because these lawsuits seek to find out whether the prior practice matched the stated "public policy." The claim, if one goes after an organization for damages, is that the practice has been different from the policy.

For example, a particular city or jurisdiction claims that their policy is to always change the lead (Pb) pipes in all areas where the levels of lead reach a certain threshold, and they have kept data on all lead level complaints, and data on every area where they have changed pipes (or fought against changing the pipes).

If the city is proud of their record, and wants to prove that their stated policy was honest, they would be happy to have this record made available to the courts. And even if the courts say that they only need it to determine the probability of organizational wrongdoing in one particular case, there is a chance that this document/database will be leaked, or that the knowledge of such a document/database will cause it to be requested for multiple future cases, for as long as it is still viable to sue the water district or organization. If the water district has done a commendable job, they might even be happy that the document/database gets leaked. They might even leak it themselves.

Of course, no organization is perfect, and there will always be items in such a database that make organizations concerned, or even ashamed. The fact that over a thousand cases of abuse in the Australian Branch were NEVER reported to authorities, and that not even one was reported, produced powerful circumstantial evidence that there may have been pressure from somewhere to keep such crimes unreported. It may have shown that almost any excuse will be grasped at to keep such crimes unreported, even in areas where reporting is not only ethical, but mandatory. The Australian database was therefore very important to show a pattern, in the event that a new case would claim that such a pattern actually existed.

The other concern, of course, is that, if the database cannot be redacted, that some well-known names of brothers at the highest levels of responsibility in the organization could be revealed, bringing shame on the organization, and the families of those brothers. The Australian database had two names, I'm told, that went to the very top of the Branch in Australia (still living), and one name that went to the very top of the US Branch (a person no longer alive who was moved around after accusations surfaced). If this is true, it would give a whole new dimension to why it is suspected that the US Branch will never release the US database.