JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Every statement you make just shows how totally divorced from Reality you are.

That's what Narcissistic Personality Disorder IS.

If you were proven wrong a HUNDRED times on any one subject with hard FACTS, you would still believe what you believe, and EVERYTHING that disagrees with your world view would be wrong.

 

[Witness]

On 10/19/2019 at 9:03 AM, Allen_Smith said:

2 Corinthians 10:10-11

Context: Paul's Apostolic Authority

10For some say, “His letters are weighty and forceful, but his physical presence is unimpressive, and his speaking is of no account.” 11Such people should consider that what we are in our letters when absent, we will be in our actions when present.

If you can’t understand scripture, why continue to “slander” 8 men you know nothing about in their personal devotion to the one true God, and how the commission of the Holy Spirit works and who God chooses.

 

You really didn't answer my question.  The scriptures you gave me speak of Paul.  Now, you seem to be comparing the GB with an apostle.  Sir, this is impossible.  Paul was an inspired prophet who is part of the foundation of God’s Temple.  1 Cor 12:28; Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17

 The GB are “inspired” false prophets, and part of the foundation of an organization.  Matt 16:18; 7:24-27; Rev 13:11-17

On 10/19/2019 at 9:03 AM, Allen_Smith said:

Get over yourself!

I believe it is the GB that need to get over themselves.  I understand that they are now to be called "faithful and prudent".  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.  This is really an interesting turn, since scripture reveals even more clearly, who they are.

  Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
    who put darkness for light,
    and light for darkness;
who put bitter for sweet,
    and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
    and prudent in their own sight!
22 Woe to those who are mighty to drink wine,
    and champions at mixing strong drink;
23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe,
    but deny justice for the innocent!  (Matt 24:48-51)

²⁴ Therefore as the tongue of fire devours the stubble,
    and as the dry grass sinks down in the flame,
    so their root shall be as rottenness,
    and their blossom shall go up as dust,
because they have rejected the law of Yahweh of Armies,
    and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.  Isa 5:20-24

 

 

[Arauna]

Why bother to answer - this person is not interested in reason. 

Most opposers of JW who have insurmountable hate for the organization have OCD - not the real kind but similar because they repeat the same hate over and over and twist scripture to suit their ends). It seems they are consumed by one thought only - like Cain.  Most of those kind here have this same attitude and mindset. God himself warned Cain about the bad condition in his heart but did he stop hating his brother?  He had no self-control and went ahead to premedidated murder of his brother.

They do not give reasonable replys but meander on and on - or point to silly things which only end in a point of hate...... not worth wasting time on illogical and emotional  postings.

If she were of the anointed  she would be out there preaching about the only solution  jehovah has for mankind - his kingdom in the hands of his son Christ Jesus.... not be angry about the fact that she was not offered the opportunity to have a  following.

 

 

[Matthew9969]

It's kinda funny and sad at the same time seeing the hate and disunity the jw's have here. I hope you jw's get out of Babylon the great watchtower bible and tract society and into the loving arms of Jesus Christ. 

[TrueTomHarley]

On 10/19/2019 at 11:17 PM, Allen_Smith said:

I don't recommend books that have received negative input by people not in good standing and have a negative view of the Watchtower.

Once again, I have no idea what you are talking about. “Dear Mr. Putin” has 3 sections—now 4, because I added one for updates.

Nobody here has had any “input” on any of them except me. Part 1 is simply a real-time retelling of events in Russia as they unfolded. Input came from monitoring news reports, plus my own experiences throughout the letter-writing campaign.

Initially, Part 1 was all I had in mind. In time, I began to envision more. Included in the introduction is both the charting of an added role and a caution that it was not for everyone:

Does Kuraev really mean to suggest that prosecution presented no intelligible arguments at the Supreme Court trial? An observer of the trial might well think it. He might well wonder just what does the government have against Jehovah’s Witnesses? There must be something, but it is not stated. At one point the judge asked the prosecution (the Ministry of Justice) whether it had prepared for the case. A decision had been plainly made somewhere from on high and it would fall upon the judge to rubber-stamp it. Of course, he did, perhaps because he wanted to remain a judge. The actual reasons behind anti-Witness hostility were never presented. So I have presented them in Part II, along with how they might be defended.

Some Witnesses, truth be told, will be uncomfortable with Part II and might best be advised to skip over it. They will love the idea of defending the faith but may be unaware of the scope of the attacks made against it, some of which are truly malicious. Deciding to sit out this or that controversy will earn them taunts of “sticking one’s head in the sand” from detractors, but it is exactly what Jesus recommends, as will be seen. Not everyone must immerse themselves in every “fact,” for many of them will turn out to be facts of Mark Twain’s variety: facts that “ain’t so.” You can’t do everything, and most persons choose to focus on matters most directly relevant to their lives.  Part II thereafter rolls into Part III, which suggests an offense—not a legal offense, but an overall moral one.

Okay?  So I made significant effort to protect any Witnesses from “apostate” thinking. Go to Part 2 if you want, I told them, but know what you are getting into. Similar passages are included in “TrueTom vs the Apostates!” This is done deliberately, out of respect for counsel from the slave about not engaging with “apostates.” Go there if you must have an answer to the unsavory things being said these days on major media. But know that you are crossing a line of counsel as you do it.

Counsel is counsel. It is not law. What is law is the law of love and the corollary that closely follows about not causing dissention or divisions in the congregation. For that reason, one must give serious thought as to whether it is wise to hang out with those determined to shoot down the faith. It really is no more than 1 Corinthians 15:33–“do not be misled—bad associations spoils useful habits.” But “apostates” have caught the ear of the media in some cases and they drive much of the current opposition. It was even true in Russia. Kicking back at negative articles in the media almost cannot be done without some interaction with those who inspire them, and some of them conveniently hang out here.

[Anna]

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

For that reason, one must give serious thought as to whether it is wise to hang out with those determined to shoot down the faith. It really is no more than 1 Corinthians 15:33–“do not be misled—bad associations spoils useful habits.”

In my opinion I wouldn't necessarily say answering, or investigating opposers claims constitutes hanging out with them. To quote J. Reuben Clark "If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought be harmed". We should be confident that our beliefs can stand up to scrutiny, if we don't have that confidence, then that is a problem.

[Arauna]

Bad association DOES spoil useful habits.  My confidence us not in myself but in christ and jehovah to assist me to remain faithful even in small things.

I see here in this forum a level of secularism that influences those affected by it to a level where wrong is no longer wrong.  Their perception of right and wrong is more secular than close to biblical compliance.

5 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

seeing the hate and disunity

You forget some are apostates and are no longer JWs..... so equate all as JWs is incorrect.  

[TrueTomHarley]

12 minutes ago, Arauna said:

You forget some are apostates and are no longer JWs..... so equate all as JWs is incorrect.  

He forgets also that there really aren’t any typical Witnesses here. Everyone here (for any length of time) falls well outside the Bell curve in one way or another. Plus, one never knows who is just a pretender.

[Matthew9969]

It's pretty easy to tell who are the die hard jw's, and the Luke warm ones.

[Foreigner]

6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nobody here has had any “input” on any of them except me. Part 1 is simply a real-time retelling of events in Russia as they unfolded. Input came from monitoring news reports, plus my own experiences throughout the letter-writing campaign.

TTH, I would go back to past comments and say it again with a straight face. Even I recall, when you mentioned JWinsider as the only one giving input.

[Witness]

14 hours ago, Arauna said:

Most opposers of JW who have insurmountable hate for the organization have OCD - not the real kind but similar because they repeat the same hate over and over and twist scripture to suit their ends). It seems they are consumed by one thought only - like Cain.  Most of those kind here have this same attitude and mindset. God himself warned Cain about the bad condition in his heart but did he stop hating his brother?  He had no self-control and went ahead to premedidated murder of his brother.

People who hate, readily “kill” their own brother for rejecting their personal misguided teachings.   This is what disfellowshipping is, a premeditated move by the GB.  Rev 13:11,15

“Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous.” 1 John 3:12

People who love, warn of the “killer” residing among those whom they love; since they have felt and seen the killer in action. Matt 7:15-20

“Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.”  1 John 3:15

Once those, who have been “killed” for rejecting the liar and his false teachings, turn to the living light of Christ, they are motivated to guide others to him; not to themselves, as the GB clearly has accomplished. Matt 24:48-51

 “And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.”  1 John 3:23

“We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.”  1 John 3:15 

14 hours ago, Arauna said:

If she were of the anointed  she would be out there preaching about the only solution  jehovah has for mankind - his kingdom in the hands of his son Christ Jesus.... not be angry about the fact that she was not offered the opportunity to have a  following.

Again, God's servants during the last days are to preach to their own people - to "Israel".   Matt 10:21-23; Rev 1:1-3; 11:1-3; 18:4-8

The only solution to receiving the "crown of life" is to turn to Christ and reject captivity to an idol; the servitude and love given to an organization.  Rev 2:20; 9:20; 3:18; 2:10  Think of how many faithful ones there were, from the first century until the organization appeared, who followed only the Father and Christ.   Matt 6:24; Rev 13:1,4-10, 16,17   So, how is it that those who choose to do the same today, are spiritually "killed"?  

Who, is the ultimate killer?  Isa 33:1; Rev 13:1,2,15; 2 Thess 2:9-12

 

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

7 hours ago, Foreigner said:

TTH, I would go back to past comments and say it again with a straight face. Even I recall, when you mentioned JWinsider as the only one giving input.

@JW Insider did not write TrueTom v Apostates. He did not write Dear Mr. Putin. I wrote them. There were portions that I forwarded to him for comment. To that extent, he had input. His comments were most helpful and every time I ignored them I came to regret it. I got all excited about a statistical factoid from the follow-up Aussie case study. He told me it wasn’t so watertight as I had imagined. He was right and I downgraded it to a suggestive pointer. 

He said that there were a ton of errors—typos and punctuation atrocities—in the manuscript and I was later aghast at how abundant they were. It took me forever to get them out. Even now there are probably a few—but it is time for new things.

Even his instinct about my describing the old bound volumes as the family gods—bulky, toted everywhere, and very seldom used—I came to agree with. I was just being self-indulgent, and no one had ever described them that way but me. Why put anyone off unnecessarily?

His biggest contribution was when I ran by him beforehand the letter that I submitted to the Philly Inquirer in response to their first of what proved to be four incendiary articles. This was a big moment for me. The topic was white-hot, I had never seen anyone not run from it, and I didn’t want to mess it up. For all I knew, they might print it. I respected his insights and incorporated most of them. That letter became the core of what ultimately became a chapter in TrueTom vs the Apostates, “Four Incendiary Articles.”

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/four-incendiary-articles.html

So yes, he has good judgement and instincts about what I consulted him for. Yes, his advice proved valuable. Yes, I am grateful to him for it. No, he did not write any of either book.

Our cooperative role may expand. We came across The Librarian, that old biddy, bending over dusting Gibbon’s “Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire” on a lower shelf in her library. JWI and I toppled the entire bookshelf on her and squashed her flat. You should not expect to hear from her anymore except for some automated posts she may have previously submitted. 

I planted a story that a California law was going to kill the internet. Admin fell for it, and he sold the entire forum to me for only a dollar. JWI agreed to come in for just 50 cents. If I let him do his thing, going on and on and on about some egghead things that I don’t really care about—and after all, he did help me with the bookshelf—I will gain his good will forever.

Yes, it is chronology he is into. But he writes at such length that everyone falls asleep except for other eggheads. He has done the research to expound on what he does, as others have done the research to disagree with him, even the semi-resident titan who doesn’t wish to be described that way. I gather that our view is not the one that predominates in the mainstream scholarly world, but this does not unduly concern me. I am too used to headlines that read: “Everything you thought you knew about such-and-such is wrong.” Matters of scientific scholarship can and have turned on a dime. Besides, even if his most drastic thought proved true, it would amount to no more that a (colossal) misread of the bus schedule. It would not mean that the bus is not coming.