Suicide. God's view. Organisation's view

[Srecko Sostar]

@Patiently waiting for Truth

Greeting.  
In your last comment, by mistake two Thinking's comments are presented under my name.

[Witness]

5 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Can you expand on your thought here? It appears there is some difficulty in understanding the word suicide.

I wasn't commenting on suicide, but on Srecko's comment - 

Some of you are already resisting the "nonsense" that comes from GB, while at the same time you are watching some of your spiritual brothers and sisters stumble under the burden of theology that you are aware has failed. ............. Don't you feel sad? Don't you want to help them not be afraid of man?

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I wasn't commenting on suicide, but on Srecko's comment

Thank you for the clarification, since the topic is about suicide. Then we would have to ask him what he meant by his comment. What do you think he meant, since you commented on it?

[Anna]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:29 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Don't you want to help them not be afraid of man?

I am sure many of us do help them. But probably not using the kinds of methods you imagine...

[Pudgy]

The most unique way I know of to help someone inclined and determined to commit suicide is to treat them like a dog.

Take them home, feed them, and let them sleep all day.

[Pudgy]

.... uh ..... short of supplyin' them with an orange 5 gallon Home Depot bucket of Prozac.

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

17 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

@Patiently waiting for Truth

Greeting.  
In your last comment, by mistake two Thinking's comments are presented under my name.

Sorry Srecko. I can see what happened. You had quoted Thinking's comment complete, and I took the quotes from your quote, hence they came up with your name. I'm sorry, it's my fault, I got lazy. I should have gone to Thinking's original post for all of his comments. I cannot amend it now as it won't let me make changes. sorry.  I will learn a lesson from this and be more careful in the future. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

6 hours ago, Anna said:

I am sure many of us do help them. But probably not using the kinds of methods you imagine...

Maybe JWs think they help people, but the same as the mainstream churches, most of it is false promises. 

Telling a person they have to be a baptised JW to be saved and that they must do it before year X, and calling that help ???

Teaching people the words of your GB instead of the word of God, and calling that help ???

I don't think so ............... 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

I just realized how i comment about this topic on another topic about same issue. Let me copy/paste the same comment.

---------------------------------

 

Suicide in the ancient world did not carry the same negative connotations as it does today. Even bible text nowhere said how suicide is a sin or forbidden by Law. The biblical attitude toward suicide ranges from ambivalence to praise. Never made Judgmental statement against those who done that act of self-destruction. 

-Abimelech came to the tower, and fought against it, and came near to the entrance of the tower to burn it with fire. But a certain woman threw an upper millstone on Abimelech's head, and crushed his skull. Immediately he called to the young man who carried his armor and said to him, “Draw your sword and kill me, so people will not say about me, ‘A woman killed him.’ ” So the young man thrust him through, and he died.

-the counselor Ahithophel hanged himself                                                                                                                                                                                            When Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his donkey and went off home to his own city. He set his house in order, and hanged himself; he died and was buried in the tomb of his father.

-Zimri, King of Israel, burned down his house around himself after military defeat.                                                                                                            When Zimri saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the royal palace and set the palace on fire around him. So he died,

-Saul and his armor-bearer                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Then Saul said to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, so that these uncircumcised may not come and make sport of me. But his armor-bearer was unwilling, for he was terrified. So Saul took his own sword and fell on it. When his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell on his sword and died. Thus Saul died; he and his three sons and all his house died together

-Samson                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Then Samson prayed to the Lord,“Sovereign Lord, remember me. Please, God, strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes.... Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines!” Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived.

-even Judas suicide is an act of remorse, deep regret. According to JW elders instruction, he gave visible, strong signs of repentance :))      When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood

 

[Thinking]

On 12/31/2021 at 3:59 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

I would say, how can we draw a parallel from the characters of Moses and Aaron. WTJWorg is considered the successor of all of God’s organizations that have emerged throughout history, to use their logic. Noah's Ark = God's Organization, Nation Israel = God's Organization, First Assembly = God's Organization, WTBTS = God's Organization.
However, each of the above had "Earth Representatives", so Moses would be the archetype of GB, and Aaron would be the representative of today's Helpers.
Both of today’s classes at WTJWorg feel that they are inspired (guided) by God and that their instructions should be followed without discussion.
As with Moses and Aaron, who made compromises to please the people, so today’s religious leaders are making changes in theology and practice. Sometimes they are a relief to the people, and sometimes an additional burden.
So, enough about the alleged "spirit guidance". Because the comment provided by Thinking proves this setting or thesis.

Like other leaders of the people, GB and Helpers = Administration, monitor the beats and pulse of their people. When the pressure in the “body” of the assembly becomes too high something must be done. In other words, there are changes in interpretations. You who are permanent members of the JW Assembly are better informed about the new changes, bigger and smaller. Sometimes they have to come because of changes in the “outside world,” and most come because of internal events.

It is unfortunate that you, JW members, who see the reality within WTJWorg, are still trying to defend what is indefensible. Because if a certain theology still lives in WTJWorg, and you are willing to support and defend it, how will you feel when it is changed, and you knew something was wrong?

Some of you are already resisting the "nonsense" that comes from GB, while at the same time you are watching some of your spiritual brothers and sisters stumble under the burden of theology that you are aware has failed. ............. Don't you feel sad? Don't you want to help them not be afraid of man?

As far as I know I’ve never tried to defend the undefendable……which all religions are guilty of…yes as well as us….your blind to deep understandings serko ..and ones like you….it’s right there for you to read but you have to have insight…you have deceived yourself into thinking you are awake…and you genuinely believe what you feel ….like a sheep that has wandered into the wilderness only to be devoured by the beasts. 

where I did Joshua run to…where did Kaleb run to…did they run out and away from Gods people….

No..and they didn’t beat their fellow brothers and sisters either…they stood back…and waited for Moses ( Jesus ) to come back and clean the mess up..which he did.

What the likes of you are doing is presumptuous…you think you can do the job that only Jesus can do….even the apostles never showed such self righteousness and presumptuousness as you are.

When Jesus cleaned up the temple with a whip …did they step up with him and help him….no…because they had no right to….yet you think you are needed to straighten Us all out….

Gods people have always disappointed him down thru the ages..and he always disciplined them and corrected them….it’s not your job nor anyone else’s right   to do that.

what you are doing is what Jehovah HATES…and that is to cause divisions and doubts and to weaken one’s faith even in the creator…..how many have left the org and gone on to become atheists…or gone back to BTG…to the belief of the trinity and idol  worship…..heaps sereko…

Have you ever asked yourself if you have been guilty of extinguishing someone’s flickering flame …and been guilty of killing some one’s faith of entirely ….you want to be careful..because some one is watching the damage you do…and yes watching the damage we do….we all will be accountable..

Do I feel sad…..you bet!..I’ve had a lot of reasons to feel genuine righteous anger…but I don’t beat those around me who lack the insight I have had to dig deep to understand as to why such things happen…
Your bitterness is your undoing…and until you master it…you will never get such insight as to why Jehovah allows the wrongs he does.

YOU…are the one that was afraid of man…and others like you here…you bowed to their errors…..they broke you…because you don’t really know Jehovah and how he works and why he does certain things.

YOU let them change you serko…..and you don’t even know the woe you are bringing on your own head because of what you and others here are trying to do.

Your so full of self righteousness that you accuse us of…

Moses is not the type of the GB..nor Arron of the helpers….

When some one stumbles serko….we pick them up…we carry them…we don’t beat them and endanger their faith…your ignorance is bathed in bitterness and blindness…..so therefore you cannot and will not ever see the pattern laid down of Gods people since their existence….nor how Jehovah deals with them.

 

[Witness]

56 minutes ago, Thinking said:

that you are doing is what Jehovah HATES…and that is to cause divisions and doubts and to weaken one’s faith even in the creator…..how many have left the org and gone on to become atheists…or gone back to BTG…to the belief of the trinity and idol  worship…..heaps sereko…

Which doctrine is worse - believing in the trinity, or believing in the Great Pyramid of Giza as the "God's Stone Witness"... or believing that the generation of anointed who could somehow conceptualize the "birth" of the kingdom in 1914, would be a generation that never passed away...or believing that Armageddon would arrive in 1975 (and the many dates before that)?

Which lie, is worse?  Because they are all lies.  Does a lie soften its intent to mislead, if it said by leaders of "Jehovah's organization"?

Lies, are what cause divisions.  Luke 12:51-53  Jesus never told us to tolerate the lying doctrines of men.  It cannot be dismissed that each teaching I mentioned, fall under the category of doctrines of men.   To the Pharisees whom Jesus directed the words of Matt 15:7-9 to, he finally told them, "your house is abandoned to you", in Luke 13:35.  He didn't tolerate the lies and doctrine of men in those days, and neither did his disciples.  So why would a JW believe he would today?  False prophets are influenced by powerful demonic spirits, and able to influence "many" to believe them.     Matt 7:15-20; 1 Tim 4:1; 2 Pet 2:2

Babylon the Great - a promise -  is where lies are told.  Isa 28:14,15; Rev 18:4-8

"This is what the Lord of Armies says: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They are deluding you. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the Lord’s mouth."  Jer 23:16

"Leave Babylon; save your lives, each of you! Don’t perish because of her guilt. For this is the time of the Lord’s vengeance— he will pay her what she deserves."   Jer 51:6

56 minutes ago, Thinking said:

YOU…are the one that was afraid of man

The one who stays quiet in the organization, knowing its leadership have deceived the flock with untruths, is afraid of men.  

Put no more trust in a mere human,
who has only the breath in his nostrils.
What is he really worth?  Isa 2:22

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

because you don’t really know Jehovah and how he works and why he does certain things.

How does the Almighty God work?  He abandons His people when they sin - when they listen to false prophets who prophesy illusions.  He abandons them when they become idolaters, investing time and energy into idols such as "organization".  They suffer for their hard-heartedness.  If they call out wanting to know TRUTH  - the truth about the lie they were living under, He hears them and acts to rescue them from the enemies that God allowed to overcome them.  (Matt 24:24,25; Col 2:8; Rev 13:5-7,10,15;16:13-16)

This is how God works.  He expects His people to repent of their sins.  This is why He does certain things, but because He never changes, He will never tolerate a people who follow the teachings of false teachers/false prophets, and who say they represent Jesus Christ - HIS SON, WHO IS TRUTH.  (John 14:6)   That is why leaving the organization is vital to one's salvation.  (Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12)