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All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents


Jack Ryan

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8 hours ago, Arauna said:

As I said before: eight old men who never personally touched a child (actually too innocent  to comprehend how wicked people can be - too good for this world), mentioned in court documents while people like Epstein who had 37 cases against him in 2007 got off because the FBI covered up for him and went after the victims. A plea bargain made without the victim's lawyers informed.

All Epstein's workers who knew what was going on since 2007, all his high-up friends and his girlfriend who coached the girls - NOTHING!   New cases in England as well where rape gangs raped young girls - covered up.

What does that tell you about the condition of the world when the real unscrupulous predators go off free and the innocent who do NOT condone this, are accused.   

People like you - who just go after JWs- get so much joy out of this......... but this tells me personally that when good is bad and bad is good, we are ever closer to Armageddon.

Just a little while longer and the wicked will be no more....... thanks to Jehovah, Jesus is the judge.

Lol this kind of reasoning cracks me up, too innocent to tell lies too innocent to appear in front of the court too innocent to be buying whisky 😆😆😆 

How do U know as a fact they have never touched anyone inappropriately, not saying they have but to make such statement that they have never U must have good evidence.

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When speaking with others of a different point of view, it is important to treat them with a modicum of respect. It is important not to taunt and ridicule and insult. Of course, if such is your only o

Good point Srecko. I don't think it's entirely fair to blame the GB for creating a "certain" environment inside congregations though. In fact, (we know everything passes through the GB's hands fo

@Arauna How do you actually know that the GB members  " never personally touched a child (actually too innocent  to comprehend how wicked people can be - too good for this world), " ?  There is i

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10 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

WERE moved from one congregation to another.

If a person was involved in wrongdoing  the elders cannot STOP them to move to a new location - only inform the new location. This (jws) is NOT a dictatorship...... a word you love to use. ..... ONE minute you judge us for being too harsh and the next that we are too soft? Heh?   Perfect logic? Want to eat pie on BOTH sides..... 

Would you like it if you committed fornication or  some other act if the entire act was announced to the congregation?   Where does mercy begin and harshness end?    Thank goodness humans are not the judge but Jehovah and his son.   If someone from outside congregation attends our meetings parents must watch their children.   It is not our place to decide  who is worthy of everlasting life.

Again: must we tell this person they are not welcome ?  Throw them out?  Especially when the top government officials are coverring up these kind of  crimes when people have money..... so NO redemption for the poor?   

It is EASY to judge and break down when your own sense if justice is aske. Jah sees it from both sides.

Study the laws that were in place and do not judge us by the current laws retroactively  but by the neglect of congress (regress) to not put proper laws in place. 

9 hours ago, Witness said:

you continue to revert back to entities outside of the organization to “compare” sins.  1 Pet 4:17

If this is the case, the organization is no better than any ot

You have the idea that JWs live in a protected bubble. What you do not realize is that  individuals can deviate from Jehovahs standards and bring dishonor to jehovah AND those who serve him -  just as you are doing with your OCD opus operandi of hate

 

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11 hours ago, Arauna said:

 A very low percentage of witnesses committed child molestation - something which is very hard to prove. 

If i may join.

We need some research about how many JW committed CM. But WT Society as Conglomerate who run Company, Corporation and Religion in the same time from one Central place in US are not willing to publish such information to no one - neither to Courts nor to Members. Some sort of exception is what was happen in Australia. But such database is only for Australia Branch Office. Even with such reduced insight, we saw how 1006 JW members and those who has been very closely related to JW congregations, committed  crime. Many of them was MS and elders. Is that percentage small or big, we can discuss. But because of nature of crime and because of nature of JW church who has the highest moral standards, as they claim for themselves, any number is too high and embarrassing.

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

Few people know that even university professionals did not know for a very long time what to do about this problem.

 Very very short respond: If WT Society is run by Spirit, than Spirit would know how to handle this problem. 

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

 Stop speaking against one another, brothers. Whoever speaks against a brother or judges his brother speaks against law and judges law. Now if you judge law, you are not a doer of law but a judge. "

When we are in negative mode because talking often about bad things and problems, that can be a burden for both, ourselves and those who listen to us. Sometimes it is hard to "escape" this, because many of us had been very long in JW organization.

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

JWs kept databases to inform other congregations of problems - so suspected perpetrators could not move from congregation to congregation.  They were the only organization to do this-  and they are the ones who are denegraded for this and received media focus...... . Other organizations working with children did NOTHING. 

If it is what you say, than JW members would know about all this when open JW TV. But there is no news, documents on JW Broadcast about what going on. 

Also, WT Australia not joined National Redress Scheme. What can be reason for that? Perhaps, because WT don't want to admit any responsibility about CM. They have no intend to join. And such stand is unacceptable.  

The Australian Government is encouraging all institutions responsible for child sexual abuse, including those listed below, to join the Scheme without delay. - https://www.nationalredress.gov.au/institutions/institutions-have-not-yet-joined

 

 If GB run all moves of secular and spiritual nature from one Central place, and request of all people inside church to obey every decision, than they are responsible. And that is why we have GB members listed as Defendants in newest Court case.     

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Arauna seems to have OCD about hating all ex Witnesses and about being blind to faults with the GB and the JW Org. 

She even seems to have OCD about using the expression OCD. 

Quote "ONE minute you judge us for being too harsh and the next that we are too soft? "

Yes too harsh by punishing some who were actually victims, but too soft by protecting paedophile elders and ministerial servants. Sorry to be so harsh but it HAS BEEN PROVEN in court cases, here in UK as well as in USA. Arauna, I'm talking facts here. There is real proof of my statement. 

Quote "Would you like it if you committed fornication or  some other act if the entire act was announced to the congregation? "

Didn't the Apostle Paul do exactly that ?   1 Corinthians 5 v 1 New International Version
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father's wife. 

But I'm not talking about fornication between two consenting adults, I'm talking about Child Sexual Abuse by an adult member of the congregation. 

Quote "Study the laws that were in place and do not judge us by the current laws retroactively  but by the neglect of congress (regress) to not put proper laws in place."

I know nothing of law and certainly i know nothing about American law,  BUT, remember, 'We must serve God as ruler, rather then men'. God's laws should be written on the hearts of those taking the lead. So to use secular law as an excuse to mishandle those breaking God's laws, makes no sense. 

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9 hours ago, Arauna said:

You have the idea that JWs live in a protected bubble. What you do not realize is that  individuals can deviate from Jehovahs standards and bring dishonor to jehovah AND those who serve him -  just as you are doing with your OCD opus operandi of hate

 

Actually, it is the majority of JWs who believe they live in a protective bubble – a spiritual paradise.  This idea is fostered by the GB. Yes, your GB who teach such lies is very responsible for the destructive effect their falsehoods have produced.  I remember thinking when a young woman in the organization, that I had entered a place where God generously protected those who worshiped Him.  When one hears teachings such as…

  • In this troubled world, the Christian congregation is a spiritual oasis. It is a haven of peace and love. w02 3/15 pp. 24-25 
  • But those who are part of Jehovah’s organization are presently enjoying the security of a spiritual paradise. kl chap. 17 pp. 160-169  

…the emotional response is one of inner “peace” and “security”. (1 Thess 5:3 )  In a haven of peace and love, most would not, could not, be convinced that the threat of evil also resides in this haven.   It wasn’t until my husband became an elder that reality very slowly began to seep into my brain.  Although I didn’t know the reasons for his many shepherding visits, or late night phone calls, I could see the strain on his face caused by whatever it was he was dealing with; and the spiritual, protective bubble that I had believed in, was growing weaker by the year. I began to comprehend how being in the organization was causing strain on him, his wife and his three little boys. My bubble of the haven of peace, love and spiritual security, eventually burst.  My husband has since told me he dealt with issues of marital and child abuse, although I never asked who was involved.

 God does not generously protect a JW from another JW,in the WT’s spiritual paradise of peace and security.    This is why exJWs speak out harshly against the organization’s sins.  While you have your studies with newly interested ones, believing you are feeding them truth; endeavoring to aid them in joining the organization, you are in fact, introducing them to a world of twisted teachings that possibly will cause great suffering and heartbreak in the future…unless, as a coping mechanism, they choose to become blind and deaf to the harsh realities that exist in their new world – the world you live in.  Their love for the organization supersedes their love for God's righteous justice.  Rom 1:25; Rev 13:4

In my early WT years, I was once told by a JW at a convention, that I shouldn’t leave my valuables on the seat when taking my baby to the restroom.  Why? Because there were many visitors who were not JWs and whose motives were to take advantage of God’s sheep-like people.   Even she believed she lived in a protective bubble as a JW. 

One who commits child abuse has a disease that needs attention by qualified professionals; otherwise the disease continues to fester.  If your GB members were spiritually keen men, they would have dealt effectively with these issues from day one. What did they choose to do?  Hide them, catalog them, and why?  What good did that do, but show their lack of spiritual abilities?  To hide sins is evil – pure evil.  The Pharisees were accused of the same.  Matt 23:25 

I barely keep up with the child abuse cases involving JWs.  But one thing that is brought out many times that I noticed, is that the perpetrator is moved by an elder to another congregation, because the perpetrator is also an elder.  Or he independently moves on his own. 

 

For consideration - "What's Wrong with 'peace and security?"  

http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/search?q=peace+and+security

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Witness said:

It wasn’t until my husband became an elder that reality very slowly began to seep into my brain.  Although I didn’t know the reasons for his many shepherding visits, or late night phone calls, I could see the strain on his face caused by whatever it was he was dealing with; and the spiritual, protective bubble that I had believed in, was growing weaker by the year. I began to comprehend how being in the organization was causing strain on him, his wife and his three little boys. My bubble of the haven of peace, love and spiritual security, eventually burst.  My husband has since told men he dealt with issues of marital and child abuse, although I never asked who was involved.

Your entire comment and thoughts inside it are excellent and giving real picture on that part of JW organization and members. 

I have singled out this section relating to the work of elders. The work of those elders who are concerned about the lives of the people, and their commitment to the spiritual and emotional relationships of the assembly members.
I can assume that all such individuals among the elders, who are in the minority, experience very serious, conflicting turmoil. For those elders who are very sensitive by nature, all that they may face can be too much. For such elders, who begin to perceive the paradox that arises between truth, justice, Jesus' teaching, on the one hand, and the corporate governance of that power, the power that human influences and positions (hierarchies) have of things, can end up very bad for themselves. Even in suicide.

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10 hours ago, Arauna said:

Study the laws that were in place and do not judge us by the current laws retroactively  but by the neglect of congress (regress) to not put proper laws in place. 

I agree. Do you know the United States cannot be sued unless it allows it to be sued? The USA has immunity no different from that of individual States.

If they didn’t have that immunity, imagine the millions of lawsuits against it for child abuse would be filed. It would mean the USA had failed its citizens for allowing hundreds of thousands of child abusers in their country.

I figure if a country is allowing civil lawsuits across the board for institutions, they should be included. Those advocating for child protection should then voice their advocacy to be fair. Meaning if institutions are at fault for allowing child abuse through no real fault of their own, then governments and their citizens should bear the same responsibility. This would include those advocates that have done nothing wrong but their government has.

If the argument is to have substance, then it should be fair and above board.

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10 hours ago, Arauna said:

Study the laws that were in place and do not judge us by the current laws retroactively

 

19 minutes ago, Bogdan11 said:

I agree

Let us go further. By what law JHVH would judge people who lived in different periods of time. Because, as I understand Bible and WT interpretations of some verses, God will judge all our deeds. No matter of when people lived and no matter when they done something and did they die or still living.

By what law He will do that? By the law that was in power when those people lived and done things, good and bad .......or will He using one Law (Present law in the moment of judging) and retroactively judged all our past deeds?

 Because Bible said how He will do that Retroactively.   God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” - Rom 2  

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2 hours ago, Bogdan11 said:

I agree. Do you know the United States cannot be sued unless it allows it to be sued? The USA has immunity no different from that of individual States.

If they didn’t have that immunity, imagine the millions of lawsuits against it for child abuse would be filed. It would mean the USA had failed its citizens for allowing hundreds of thousands of child abusers in their country.

I figure if a country is allowing civil lawsuits across the board for institutions, they should be included. Those advocating for child protection should then voice their advocacy to be fair. Meaning if institutions are at fault for allowing child abuse through no real fault of their own, then governments and their citizens should bear the same responsibility. This would include those advocates that have done nothing wrong but their government has.

If the argument is to have substance, then it should be fair and above board.

BUT the GB and JW Org are supposed to be 'No part of that world'  And are supposed to keep themselves 'Without spot from the world'  So why you and others are comparing the GB and it's Org to the world all the time, makes no sense.  

Add to that, that JW's WERE TOLD NOT TO REPORT TO THE POLICE OR OUTSIDE AUTHORITIES. The excuse used being that it would bring shame on Jehovah.   

Add to that THE TWO WITNESS RULE which encouraged Elders to call Victims liars. 

Add to that the Shunning which JW Victims were frightened of.  

Now you just might open your eyes and see why the GB / Elders / JW Org are SO guilty. 

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1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

BUT the GB and JW Org are supposed to be 'No part of that world'  And are supposed to keep themselves 'Without spot from the world'  So why you and others are comparing the GB and it's Org to the world all the time, makes no sense.  

I can appreciate your frankness and passion. At what point did you begin to see the GB as perfect? Were the apostles perfect? Please submit an instance where Jesus removed the original sin from the apostles.

Since the GB stay away from world influence, I don’t see where they think the same as the world.

Now, is there a difference between God's law and secular law that not only the GB would need to address and Elders as well? However, don't you think local elders would be more aware of current government laws?

Since I’m new to this forum and I as you have been monitoring this website for a long time, and to avoid my personal opinion not to be challenging to others, I will not argue, Watchtower policy or their bylaws since it appears this kind of debate can only be expressed by those that have a grievance. It appears for some, having to express an opinion by comments or a downvote can have consequences. I don’t believe I’m allowed to respond to such criticism unless I can get a green light from the website owner. I will wait to receive the rules of engagement and proper protocol with a point of order. Therefore, I yield that to you, sorry.

For now if you don’t mind, I will remain natural since I don’t wish these 2 post to be my last. What I agree with, even governments hide wrongdoings. Why isn’t society being more proactive in holding governments accountable just like the institutions?

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1 hour ago, Bogdan11 said:

I can appreciate your frankness and passion. At what point did you begin to see the GB as perfect? Were the apostles perfect? Please submit an instance where Jesus removed the original sin from the apostles.

Since the GB stay away from world influence, I don’t see where they think the same as the world.

Now, is there a difference between God's law and secular law that not only the GB would need to address and Elders as well? However, don't you think local elders would be more aware of current government laws?

Since I’m new to this forum and I as you have been monitoring this website for a long time, and to avoid my personal opinion not to be challenging to others, I will not argue, Watchtower policy or their bylaws since it appears this kind of debate can only be expressed by those that have a grievance. It appears for some, having to express an opinion by comments or a downvote can have consequences. I don’t believe I’m allowed to respond to such criticism unless I can get a green light from the website owner. I will wait to receive the rules of engagement and proper protocol with a point of order. Therefore, I yield that to you, sorry.

For now if you don’t mind, I will remain natural since I don’t wish these 2 post to be my last. What I agree with, even governments hide wrongdoings. Why isn’t society being more proactive in holding governments accountable just like the institutions?

You are copying Arauna. You are doubling backwards to compare the GB and it's Org to the world which belongs to the Devil. 

You should be comparing the GB and the Org to God's standards. 

Back in the times of Israel the surrounding nations were offering their children in the fire to Molech. (This has been mentioned by people on here before.) Then it seems the Israelites also started offering their children in the fire to Molech. How did God feel about that ? Did God say, 'Oh well the Israelites  are not burning as many children as the other nations so it doesn't matter ' No I think not. God judged His people on His standards. 

Quote from 

“The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.”—JAMES 1:27.

2 “The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this,” wrote the disciple James, “to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.” Another rendition is: “Pure, unspoilt religion, in the eyes of God our Father is this: coming to the help of orphans and widows when they need it, and keeping oneself uncontaminated by the world.”—James 1:27, The Jerusalem Bible.

I quote you "Since the GB stay away from world influence, I don’t see where they think the same as the world."

The GB deliberately tell lies, and they use dishonest lawyers in courts. They jump ahead of any spiritual guidance from God or Christ and make stupid statements such as the 'overlapping generations'. the two witness rule concerning child sexual abuse, a rule concerning accusing adults of different sexes of committing fornication if they happen to be in the same house overnight, funnily enough it doesn't apply to adults of the same sex, bit behind the times there..   Telling the anointed not to think about contacting each other around the earth (when we know the anointed are the Body of Christ)... And don't even think about mentioning some of the stupid videos they make... And now a court appearance it seems. Well they do seem to like being in front of the camera.  

As for you commenting and being blunt. Do it. As long as you are not abusive and not too insulting to people :) 

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These comments were auto merged :( 

Did i ever get a reply as to what will actually happen in these court cases ?  Are the GB members liable to get fined ?

Is there a possibility of a prison sentence for each one ? 

 Looking back when the GB were playing games between the CCJW and WT Soc, basically sending letters to them selves, and the courts were not too happy about the wasted time etc. Fines imposed but then scrapped. So i would think the GB are not in favour with any of the courts. But things drag out so long so probs no result until next summer. 

 

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