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All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents


Jack Ryan

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13 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

GB members that don't want to talk to each other. And now, GB members that don't want the Anointed around the earth to speak to each other.  Please tell me where is 'the love for one another' and the 'everyone working together to serve God properly', that the JW Org pretends to have ?

I was talking about a situation from 40 to 50 years ago, and it might have been a good thing, in that it revealed the tension that is seen before a necessary transition. There had been a time up until the years before 1975, when the strongest voices in the Writing Department and from the Vice President were considered to "gospel" for the Service Department. The Service Department was in charge of pushing higher and higher activity goals and was given a lot of credit when goals and quotas were met. But the Service Department also handled correspondence for serious lifestyle questions that came in, and ultimately handled disfellowshipping rules and practices. This tended to "bleed" back into the Writing Department so that "suggestions" and "principles" were being turned into Watchtower dogma. (For example, question about marital practices in the bedroom, or organ transplants based on the musings of Fred Franz turned into matters of disfellowshipping, when they probably should have been left up to the couple or individual. But after enough disfellowshippings over such things, the rules had to be set in stone.)

The head of Service wasn't ready to stop being a hard-liner when the Writing department had begun to realize that they had no reason to be hard-liners on every topic. So the tensions were necessary to get clarification, and hopefully the Writing department would win out on certain flexible points at a time when the Service department wanted to be unbending.

There was a time when elders all around the country sometimes said "The Society is actually Harley Miller" because it was Harley Miller who was in charge of the way questions were answered when the elders needed clarification. The brother I mentioned before took over for Harley Miller. (Sorry about that, I am trying to no longer use names but I've already mentioned FWF and HM.)

It seems to me now that the WT is much less likely to promote harsh handling on several of these points they once fought over. The Service/Correspondence departments are now evidently completely in line. And one of the reasons I think of the current GB as less likely to have "pedophiles" in their midst is that there are fewer, they appear to get along better, and I think they realize they must be much more careful about past mistakes and past reputation. When questionable persons were asked to join the GB during the 1970's, there was a rule that past mistakes of elders could be ignored if they were long enough in the past and they were not currently causing a reputation problem in the congregation. The point was that there was no need for any type of public reproval that the congregation needs to know about if it were far enough in their background. This is no longer true of any connection with child sexual abuse. No exceptions are to be made CSA, even if they were in the past.

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When speaking with others of a different point of view, it is important to treat them with a modicum of respect. It is important not to taunt and ridicule and insult. Of course, if such is your only o

Good point Srecko. I don't think it's entirely fair to blame the GB for creating a "certain" environment inside congregations though. In fact, (we know everything passes through the GB's hands fo

@Arauna How do you actually know that the GB members  " never personally touched a child (actually too innocent  to comprehend how wicked people can be - too good for this world), " ?  There is i

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

This is important, too. One of the lists kept by the Society, that was discussed in a recent court case, actually concerned a list of pedophiles who had been converted through the prison ministries, persons who had been convicted of their crimes before becoming Witnesses.

There has been some "social media" confusion, perhaps deliberate, among the list of Australian cases and victims, a central list of congregational "judicial" disciplinary actions against congregation members (including elders) being kept at the United States headquarters, and lists of persons in situations such as the formerly convicted "known" pedophiles. It should also be repeated that some family members who have been victims of incest have been very adamant about not allowing such lists to be exposed anywhere for fear it will result in prejudice against the victims in society or even in the congregations. Historically, this has been a big reason for covering up the crime of incestual rape, in many societies, but unfortunately it is sometimes spouses and other relatives who push for covering it up and thereby override the need to protect the child.

I think this brings us back to 'serving God as ruler rather than men'.  I would also think it should be possible to make known the name of a pedophile without naming the victims. And I think it is just an excuse for the GB / JW Org. 

To 'look after 'widows and orphans', to look after all children, the names and locations of all pedophiles should be made known, not only internally but to the world. Arauna says, we cannot know the minds of such ones. That they are Satanic. 

I say, that all pedophiles should carry their burden continuously in this old system of things. Of course they should be allowed into Kingdom Halls, and allowed to study God's word,  but only on the understanding that they are known to all. Unless of course you want the GB and JW Org in deeper trouble. 

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10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is not about "twisting facts". If people are not satisfied with people who taking a lead, who rule, governing over them and their life, because they have double standards and twisting justice in "worldly system", they have chance to replace them by voting. And so on until they find the best people world can offer. JW not want to be "proactive" in this matter. That is their right to have such stand. But than, why to criticize system. System, "worldly", is mirror of people in general.

I appreciate your consorted effort and passion. I cannot agree that the Org has not been proactive in making every attempt to address a human problem inflicted by evil forces inclined to divide Christians.

I also agree with the firsthand accounts and insight that Arauna has placed before us to reflect on. It is refreshing to see such an astute person with great knowledge to lead with facts. It is better to have gone through personal experience to give accounts a better understanding than secondhand accounts that might be questioned.

I can direct you to all the articles relating to child abuse since 1956 to 2019. These submitted articles are but an illustration of how the ORG has addressed child abuse from many standpoints of view.

*** w56 9/15 p. 563 pars. 11-12 Theocratic Marriage in an Alien World ***

What is wrong about a bride price or lobola is the abuse that is made of it. It is wrong, unchristian, untheocratic, to treat it, not as a compensation, but as a means of making money off one’s own child or children, and then charge excessively or extort more than what is right or require what works a hardship.

12 God hates all extortioners, including bride-price extortioners, who commercialize their own daughters. Any such greedy person that claims to be a Christian puts himself in the way of excommunication or disfellowshiping from the Christian congregation any and every time that he commits extortion in the case of lobola or bride price

 *** g73 9/8 pp. 29-30 Watching the World ***

Tomorrow’s Parents

♦ Few are aware of the 500-percent increase in known cases of child abuse in the past decade, says a report to the American Medical Association. Called a “national disgrace,” abuse is America’s leading killer of children under five. The report estimates 50,000 deaths and 300,000 permanent physical or emotional injuries this year. Far-reaching effects were noted: “It is a disease of violence that breeds more violence, for the abused children of today, if they survive, will grow up to be the abusing parents of tomorrow.” This destructive spiral produces more anger, hate and criminality until “some day very few of us will be able to go out on the streets.”

 *** tp chap. 14 p. 155 Respect for the Gift of Life *** 1986

Respect for Your Own Life

Violent behavior attributed to alcohol use accounts for approximately 65% of murders, 40% of assaults, 35% of rapes, 30% of other sex crimes, 30% of suicides, 55% of fights or assaults in the home and 60% of cases of child abuse.

*** w19 May p. 7 par. 25 Love and Justice in the Christian Congregation ***

25 How thankful we are to be under the law of the Christ! When all of us work hard to obey it, we help to make our congregation a place where each individual can feel loved, valued, and safe. Still, we are living in a world where “wicked men” have advanced “from bad to worse.” (2 Tim. 3:13) We must not let down our guard. How can the Christian congregation reflect God’s justice when dealing with child sexual abuse?

 The question that Arauna raises is a valid one. How can any organization read the minds of their followers or employees? Any further suggestions, I will leave that to your conscience and heart.

https://www.nealdavislaw.com/criminal-defense-guides/exonerations-by-state-2019.html

 

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

To be practical; all those who are concerned about allegations of CSA cover up in HQ, and these allegations come to light, and it is proved some were made deliberately and harmed children, then no doubt justice will be carried out, if not by human hand, then by God's hand. And the organization WILL be cleaned where necessary. In fact, this cleaning is happening all the time, (whether it be regarding doctrine or organisational procedure) because of the imperfection of man, it is something that is necessary and inevitable. It was going on in Bible times and it hasn't stopped. Some of it is immediately visible, some not so much. Some of it happens quickly, some takes more time, but in the end it happens one way or another and will continue to happen. And this is what we all want, isn't it? Some of us may even contribute to some changes personally, and we know worldly institutions have already effected changes for example in the handling of CSA. 
So what is the purpose of some on here who criticize? Surely they are not expecting, or wishing for the organization to cease to exist? That would be unrealistic of course. But if the criticism is constructive, and hopes for a better way of doing things, then that is a good thing. However, if the criticism is merely to tear down, or vent ones anger and dissapointment, then these people forget that the organization is based on faith in God, and that its members will always rely on God for the ultimate solution. So there is no point in unconstructive criticism (when is there ever?) only to vent. And that's also fine if they feel this is a good place for it.

Why ? Well I think scripture tells us to examine all things. And if we are 'spiritual' people  we will examine the spiritual and the physical.  CSA is just one item to look at. Shunning is another. Blood is another. Doctrine another. 

I am wishing for an Organisation through which I can serve God properly.  I am neither for or against JW Org.  Unfortunately whilst following this forum i have found out much that I am unhappy with about JW Org. Much that tells me that God and Christ cannot be happy with this Organisation. I have also noted that some JW's on here are totally blind to any faults in the Org, and i think that is why 'those in opposition' have to 'shout so loudly'. 

Regarding only the CSA, it is Earth wide in the Org, and will probably take years to 'sort out', hence it may be the ruination of the Org. The GB seem to be fighting it every step of the way, which makes them look even more guilty IMO. And here in UK  there is talk of another investigation, this time by the I.I. C. S. A.  I haven't heard any follow up on this though. 

27 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I was talking about a situation from 40 to 50 years ago, and it might have been a good thing, in that it revealed the tension that is seen before a necessary transition. There had been a time up until the years before 1975, when the strongest voices in the Writing Department and from the Vice President were considered to "gospel" for the Service Department. The Service Department was in charge of pushing higher and higher activity goals and was given a lot of credit when goals and quotas were met. But the Service Department also handled correspondence for serious lifestyle questions that came in, and ultimately handled disfellowshipping rules and practices. This tended to "bleed" back into the Writing Department so that "suggestions" and "principles" were being turned into Watchtower dogma. (For example, question about marital practices in the bedroom, or organ transplants based on the musings of Fred Franz turned into matters of disfellowshipping, when they probably should have been left up to the couple or individual. But after enough disfellowshippings over such things, the rules had to be set in stone.)

The head of Service wasn't ready to stop being a hard-liner when the Writing department had begun to realize that they had no reason to be hard-liners on every topic. So the tensions were necessary to get clarification, and hopefully the Writing department would win out on certain flexible points at a time when the Service department wanted to be unbending.

There was a time when elders all around the country sometimes said "The Society is actually Harley Miller" because it was Harley Miller who was in charge of the way questions were answered when the elders needed clarification. The brother I mentioned before took over for Harley Miller. (Sorry about that, I am trying to no longer use names but I've already mentioned FWF and HM.)

It seems to me now that the WT is much less likely to promote harsh handling on several of these points they once fought over. The Service/Correspondence departments are now evidently completely in line. And one of the reasons I think of the current GB as less likely to have "pedophiles" in their midst is that there are fewer, they appear to get along better, and I think they realize they must be much more careful about past mistakes and past reputation. When questionable persons were asked to join the GB during the 1970's, there was a rule that past mistakes of elders could be ignored if they were long enough in the past and they were not currently causing a reputation problem in the congregation. The point was that there was no need for any type of public reproval that the congregation needs to know about if it were far enough in their background. This is no longer true of any connection with child sexual abuse. No exceptions are to be made CSA, even if they were in the past.

 But after enough disfellowshippings over such things, the rules had to be set in stone.)

One has to wonder how many people were thrown to the wind, how many people were stumbled. How many may have become depressed, spiritually lost, or even committed suicide, 

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24 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

When questionable persons were asked to join the GB during the 1970's, there was a rule that past mistakes of elders could be ignored if they were long enough in the past and they were not currently causing a reputation problem in the congregation.

.... if they were long enough in the past....

19. If it comes to light or an appointed brother confesses that he has committed a disfellowshipping offense years in the past: The body of elders may determine he can continue to serve if the following is true:The immorality or other serious wrongdoing occurred more than a few years ago,and he is genuinely repentant,recognizing that he should have come forward immediately when he sinned. (Perhaps he has even confessed to his sin, seeking help with his guilty conscience.)He has been serving faithfully for many years, has evidence of God’s blessing, and has the respect of the congregation. 20. If the sin occurred before he was appointed as an elder or a ministerial servant,the elders will need to take into consideration the fact that he should have mentioned this possible impediment to his being qualified when elders interviewed him just prior to announcing his appointment. Moreover, the nature of the sin may reflect greatly on his qualifications to serve.For example,the sin may involve past child abuse,and this would likely disqualify him for many years.—w971/1pp.26-29;w77pp.697-698.

38 “Shepherd the Flock of God”—1Peter5:2

21. If the wrong doing occurred within the past few years while he was serving as an elder or a ministerial servant, he is disqualified from serving as such, not being“free from accusation.”(1Tim.3:2,10;Titus1: 6,7)Depending on the circumstances,the situation may also need to be handled by a judicial committee. —See5:43-44. 

Shepherd book 2012

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1 minute ago, 4Jah2me said:

Oh dear, I thought YOU would be above all that rubbish. Defence mechanism is it ?  

Sorry. Certain peculiar patterns and personalities emerge. I don’t really think that you are him. I do talk too much, and my wife IS getting impatient about that job I promised to do.

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@Arauna - "Jehovah judges perfectly because he understands perfectly.  BUT you are twisting the facts:

It is PEOPLE here on the forum who have appointed themselves as judges and definitely are not perfect judges. 

People here on this forum try to make JWs into monsters.... when the real monsters who are exploiting children are using the worldly system to do this.  The worldly legal system is becoming less and less accountable and favoring the rich and powerful (and certain favoured minorities) to do as they please."

Yes, the world is full of atrocities and horrors, but the world does not offer eternal life – the organization does.  Shouldn’t one’s focus be on how that will occur through an organization that is marked by some of the same atrocities found in the world?

@Srecko Sostar - “I can assume that all such individuals among the elders, who are in the minority, experience very serious, conflicting turmoil. For those elders who are very sensitive by nature, all that they may face can be too much. For such elders, who begin to perceive the paradox that arises between truth, justice, Jesus' teaching, on the one hand, and the corporate governance of that power, the power that human influences and positions (hierarchies) have of things, can end up very bad for themselves. Even in suicide.”

@4Jah2me - "So get real, wake up, and stop looking for excuses in the outside Devil's world.

Remember scripture, Don't tell your brother he has a straw in his eye, when you have a rafter in yours. = JW Org,  Don't say how wicked the outside world is when the inside of JW Org is just as wicked." 

How will the Kingdom arrive, through the choices the world makes, or the choices each anointed one makes? John 17:17; Rev 14;5   The anointed leaders of the org. easily judge their brothers and sisters in Christ.  The GB are not apostles, but uninspired men who “assume” they are allowed to make that decision.  They have given the elders the swift ability to mark them and all who question their teachings, as spiritually “dead” for not conforming to their own bad choices, or for turning directly to Christ who can offer one eternal life.  Micah 3:5; John 16:2; Rev 13:15

This is a more serious accusation than one losing their physical life at the hands of a corrupt worldly system. 

“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.” John 6:63

The words the GB speak, are not full of life.  Their historical record of bad choices proves it.   Col 2:8  God doesn't erase their mistakes made while leading the flock, unless they repent and turn around.  Which they haven't.  Jer 23:32

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Shepherd book 2012

...  and now Shepherd book 2019

CAUTIONS BEFORE RECOMMENDING CERTAIN BROTHERS

6. Elders should make sure they have full and complete information regarding the brothers they intend to recommend to the circuit overseer, especially those in the following circumstances.

7. Previously Reproved, Disfellowshipped, or Disassociated: If he was reproved within the past three years or reinstated within the past five years, please provide the following information: What was the offense? In a case of reproof, did the judicial committee make an announcement? In a case of disfellowshipping or disassociation, what is the date of reinstatement? When were the last restrictions lifted? Are you aware of his having been reproved, disfellowshipped, or disassociated on any other occasions? What convinces you that he has lived down his past wrongdoing and that others now view him as a good example? If the wrongdoing took place in another congregation, how would that congregation view his appointment? Recommending him prematurely could minimize the seriousness of wrongdoing in his own eyes and in the eyes of others. It could also disturb those who still have his wrongdoing fresh in their memories.

8. Guilty of Adultery in the Past: When did the adultery occur? Was he reproved or disfellowshipped? If he was reproved, was an announcement made? Did the innocent mate reject him? How do you know this? If he divorced and remarried, did he marry the individual with whom he committed adultery? Is there evidence that he schemed to put away his former mate or that he pressured her to accept a divorce? Did the adultery break up the marriage of the other person? How were others affected by his adultery? Is the innocent mate still alive? Did the innocent mate remarry? What convinces you that he has lived down his past wrongdoing and is now viewed with respect? If the wrongdoing took place in another congregation, how would that congregation view his appointment?-See 12:10-12. CHAPTER 8 "SHEPHERD THE FLOCK OF GOD" APPOINTMENT AND DELETION OF ELDERS AND MINISTERIAL SERVANTS

9. Separated or Unscripturally Divorced: Who is primarily to blame for the marital problems? What were the circumstances surrounding the separation or divorce? Who was responsible for the separation, or who pursued the divorce? Did both sign the decree or in some other way indicate their agreement? How long ago did the separation or divorce occur? What is the brother doing to try to reconcile? Is his mate unwilling to cooperate with his efforts? If so, why? How is his situation viewed by the congregations involved? How do the elders of the mate's congregation feel about the brother? When separation and divorce are involved, there may be deficiencies on the part of one or both mates that make it necessary to limit special privileges because one or both mates may not be viewed as exemplary.-w00 12/15 pp. 28-29; /vs pp. 250-251.

10. Served as an Elder or a Ministerial Servant in the Past: With what congregation did he previously serve, and when did he stop serving? Why did he stop serving? What makes his circumstances different now? What progress has he made since he stopped serving? If he stopped serving in another congregation, how would that congregation view his reappointment? If he previously served as an elder and was not guilty of gross wrongdoing, it may not be necessary for him now to serve first as a ministerial servant, depending on the length of time since he stopped serving as an elder.-See 13:8.

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23 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Do you offer eternal life or eternal strife?  It is easy to judge and take the splinter from GB eyes..... when the beam is in your own.  

Only Christ can offer us eternal life, not an organization, a false Zion.  If I follow Christ and am condemned by the GB for doing so, who is it that carries the beam in their eye?  

He said to the crowd: “When you see a cloud rising in the west, immediately you say, ‘It’s going to rain,’ and it does. 55 And when the south wind blows, you say, ‘It’s going to be hot,’ and it is. 56 Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don’t know how to interpret this present time?"  Luke 12:54-56

JWs see and "interpret" the appearance of what is happening in the world, judging each individual within it as marked for destruction during their version of Armageddon; while not paying any attention to what is happening among God's "saints".  

Mark 24:24 -  "For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time."

 

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