Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?

[Anna]

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And you think that God, through Christ, needs to do that ? 

They are doing that; through the scriptures

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

But in truth you know it is done purely for power and money. 

I do not think that.

[Srecko Sostar]

On 12/1/2019 at 8:48 PM, AlanF said:

Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom. >> -- "The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah"-How? - 1971

<< And if the wicked system of this world survived until the turn of the century, which is highly improbable in view of world trends and the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, there would still be survivors of the World War I generation. However, the fact that their number is dwindling is one more indication that “the conclusion of the system of things” is moving fast toward its end. >> -- October 15, 1980 Watchtower, p. 31

<< It has been thrilling to see the fulfillment of Jesus’ sign showing that the Kingdom was established in the heavens in that momentous year 1914. And Jesus has told us to rejoice at seeing the dark storm clouds of Armageddon gathering since that time. He has told us that the “generation” of 1914—the year that the sign began to be fulfilled—”will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (Matthew 24:34) Some of that “generation” could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that “the end” is much closer than that! >> -- March 1, 1984 Watchtower, pp. 18-19

Title of topic - Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?

In this or some other wording, it really doesn't matter. Because all people who made examination about 140 years of WTJWorg teachings, except majority past and today JW members, clearly see how GB doctrines making never ending predictions about "the end". 

Whether they are talking/speaking/predicting about a certain year or a limited period of time, or trying to confirm the coming of the end with world events, or the proximity of the end is linked to the life span of a specific group of people, GB always have one and the same desire; to be the first in the world to say; now comes the end..... and then they wait to see if it will finally happen to them .... this time.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Anna says They (God and Christ) are doing that; through the scriptures.

No Anna, your GB and it's Org are the ones doing it by misusing scripture. 

Do you honestly think God and Christ would deliberately mislead millions of people that want to serve them ? 

Do you really think Almighty God through Jesus Christ, gave all those lies to Russell,  Rutherford, and other Leaders of the Watchtower society ? 

[Anna]

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

No Anna, your GB and it's Org are the ones doing it by misusing scripture. 

Do you honestly think God and Christ would deliberately mislead millions of people that want to serve them ? 

I think the situation that was raised was that of: "a fairly successful method of keeping people in a state of anticipation".

You are familiar with the scriptures that urge Christians to be in a state of anticipation. I don't think I need to quote them all here. 

Of course I do not think mistakes are from God or Jesus. But they obviously allowed them. 

By whatever misguided means this state of anticipation was achieved throughout decades by the organization is not the question here. The fact is it was achieved and still is being achieved. No one can accuse the JWs of not being "on the watch". 

 

[Witness]

15 minutes ago, Anna said:

No one can accuse the JWs of not being "on the watch". 

 

Oh right.  The barking dog scenario.  In other words, when God appoints a watchman, that one is bound to make mistake after mistake after mistake...when sounding the alarm.  And God and Jesus overlook the mistakes, simply because you believe the organization continues to be guided by God.

But that's not how God's word describes a watchman appointed by Him.

"Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the people of Israel; so hear the word I speak and you must give them warning from Me."   Ezek 3:17

"If the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?" (1Cor.14:8)

None of the Armageddon calls by the organization proved to be...

A clear call

From God

WHO has appointed your watchmen?  It wasn't God.  

 

 

[Witness]

28 minutes ago, Anna said:

No one can accuse the JWs of not being "on the watch". 

 

Am I wrong in calling your leaders, "watchmen"?

After the Kingdom was established, Jesus appointed a small group of men to serve as the faithful slave. (Matt. 24:45-47) Since then, the faithful slave, now known as the Governing Body, has done the work of a watchman. It takes the lead not only in warning of “the day of vengeance” but also in proclaiming “the year of Jehovah’s goodwill.”—Isa. 61:2; see also 2 Corinthians 6:1, 2. Pure Worship p. 127-128

Again, WHO has appointed your watchmen?  

"But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him."  Deut 18:20-22

Scripturally, anyone has the right to reject your watchmen, since they have proven themselves  as not appointed by God.  We are not to be afraid of them.  For the GB to disfellowship someone for following scripture, shows that they are spiritually immoral harlots.  

Rev 13:11,12; 17:1,2

 

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Anna said:

I think the situation that was raised was that of: "a fairly successful method of keeping people in a state of anticipation".

Dealing with the these words of Jesus as all religions try to do, and WTJWorg in particular, in a way that the end is always expected over and over again in every decade, is a complete failure. But, on the other hand, it is a fairly successful method of keeping people in a state of anticipation.

Watchman would have an excuse to raise tensions about Armageddon if that really happened within a time-frame that would be “normal”. Just for the sake of parallel, we could take the example of Jeremiah’s prophecy of "70 years" of exile, from Israel. The Jews of that time could expect change when the prophesied years were completed. So it was normal for the people of that time to get married, to have children, to plant vineyards and build houses in such long period of years. 

If there was a WTJWorg Corporation then what would they do? They would have real estate and they would buy and sell properties. Today WTJWorg doing exactly that in all this 140 years period despite warnings how "end is near/close/imminent/within few months/within few years/to the end of the century"..., and so on.

Keeping people in a state of alert and caution for 140 years means that something is definitely wrong. All this time GB has repeatedly given advice that it is not good for JW to get married, have children, to get an education, because Armageddon will come soon and it could be bad for their spiritual safety.

JW members, most of them, because of the continuous spiritual and mental spasm that "tomorrow" come to an end failed to be "normal" in their plans, which are typical for people. Even if we take the example of Noah and the people of that time, getting married, building houses and planting vineyards, for a period of 120 years, was not the reason for the coming of the Flood.

What would have happened if all JWs had obeyed the instructions given to them by the WTJWorg in 1941? No one would marry, no one would have children. How many JWs would there be today if to this day no one in WTJWorg is married and has no children, because they decided to put "Kingdom interests first"?

So, the meaning of the concept and the interpretation of words; "Be awake, be on watch", needs to be changed. And JW's need another/different "Watchman".

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote @Srecko Sostar So, the meaning of the concept and the interpretation of words; "Be awake, be on watch", needs to be changed. And JW's need another/different "Watchman".

I truly believe that different 'Watchman' will be the True Anointed remnant'   The spiritual JEW that the 'ten men' cling on to, saying 'We will go with you because we know god is with you'.  Zechariah 8 : 23

This is what the LORD Almighty says: "In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.'"

Quote @Anna Of course I do not think mistakes are from God or Jesus. But they obviously allowed them.

God and Christ allow all false religions to do as they please right now, and have done so in the past.  So why do you think the 'mistakes' of the Watchtower / JWs is any different ?  

Quote @Anna By whatever misguided means this state of anticipation was achieved throughout decades by the organization is not the question here. The fact is it was achieved and still is being achieved. No one can accuse the JWs of not being "on the watch". 

No, what was achieved and is still achieved is FEAR.  FEAR of being disfellowshipped, cast out, losing all,

Remember the lie, 'You must be a baptised JW to be saved'  Then add to that another lie,  'Armageddon is 'definitely coming in your life time'.  What result do you get ? You get people having to carry a heavy load and living in fear of being disfellowshipped.  

The Org used to say that is was the Ark, and if you are not in the Ark you will die.  Threat after threat after threat. Scaremongering. And you call it 'Keeping on the watch'. 

[Srecko Sostar]

17 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Quote @Anna Of course I do not think mistakes are from God or Jesus. But they obviously allowed them.

God and Christ allow all false religions to do as they please right now, and have done so in the past.  So why do you think the 'mistakes' of the Watchtower / JWs is any different ?  

Problem that all this (Christian) religious leaders have is their idea how God and Jesus choose just/only Them and no one else. GB claims how God had chosen them in 1919 is huge farce. 

In reality, fact can be verbalized this way: God allowed GB to introduce themselves as his servants in the same manner as God allowed satan to pretend to be an "angel of light". 

Well, that ubiquitous response (God allowed) when there is no right/precise answer is not the answer that solves the dilemma.

[Anna]

8 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

So why do you think the 'mistakes' of the Watchtower / JWs is any different ?  

Because the mistakes that the WT has made are not comparable to the mistakes Christendom has made. Read history. See the results past and present. 

8 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

No, what was achieved and is still achieved is FEAR.  FEAR of being disfellowshipped, cast out, losing all,

It seems only those JWs who have a bad conscience are afraid.

8 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Remember the lie, 'You must be a baptised JW to be saved'  Then add to that another lie,  'Armageddon is 'definitely coming in your life time'.  What result do you get ? You get people having to carry a heavy load and living in fear of being disfellowshipped.  

I don't see how being baptised and living your life as if Armageddon will come in your lifetime is a bad thing. Didn't Jesus say we should become his followers and disown ourselves?

"Then Jesus said to his disciples: “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and keep following me" Matt 16:24.

[Anna]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, that ubiquitous response (God allowed) when there is no right/precise answer is not the answer that solves the dilemma.

If the dilemma is whether there is a right/precise answer, then "God allowing" things does not solve it. If you believe there IS a right and precise answer then there is no dilemma, you just have to keep looking until you find it.

[Witness]

23 hours ago, Witness said:

After the Kingdom was established, Jesus appointed a small group of men to serve as the faithful slave. (Matt. 24:45-47) Since then, the faithful slave, now known as the Governing Body, has done the work of a watchman. It takes the lead not only in warning of “the day of vengeance” but also in proclaiming “the year of Jehovah’s goodwill.”—Isa. 61:2; see also 2 Corinthians 6:1, 2. Pure Worship p. 127-128

 

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Because the mistakes that the WT has made are not comparable to the mistakes Christendom has made. Read history. See the results past and present. 

Is the Watchtower/”Watch Tower”  Bible and Tract Society, an organization?  Yes.  Is it “Jehovah’s organization”?  Well, to most JWs, they are one in the same.  Their “dedication” once baptized into it, is a vow they must keep. (Wt 17/4 pp 3-9)   While JWs have submitted to various rules, regulations, changed teachings over the years, it all boils down to allegiance to what their leaders teach and ‘decree’, at any given place in the organization’s history.   While they’re told not to have children, not to marry at one point; that there are no more anointed to arise after 1935; (oh wait, they changed that!), not to fall into the snare of riches and personal enrichment through education……

…… the governing leaders have been busy developing their organization with dedicated monies and free labor.  They have enriched and educated individuals to work for the benefit of the organization’s survival, and have told their members that all has occurred at the generous hand of God. (Luke 4:5-8)  They have picked the best of the JW crop to come to their aid, in building their empire of falsehoods.  I am not sure why JWs feel the need to always compare the mistakes made by "Jehovah's spirit-directed organization" to Christendom's mistakes.  I don't believe I know of any organization in Christendom that says it is "spirit-directed" by God. (Rev 13:15) So...what's the comparison, especially since this "mighty mountain" is said to rise above any other organization?

A "watchtower" described in the Bible was where the watchman positioned himself to see what danger was ahead.  At least one of the organization’s “watchmen” seems to have disconnected from the “Watchtower”, when Gerrit Losch stated,

“I do not answer to the Watchtower.  Watchtower does not have, and never has had any authority over me.” 

Well, it enacts plenty of authority over all JWs who willingly bend to its decrees. 

But! Does this mean that all GB watchmen are in agreement with Losch?   Or, that there are now only 7 watchmen in the “Watchtower”?  Losch seems to have rejected the assignment that God supposedly has given him.

“I post watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem; they should keep praying all day and all night. You who pray to the Lord, don’t be silent!”  Isa 62:6

Will all seven bail from that position when they must answer for their corrupt dealings and false prophesies?  (Ezek 33:6)

The “four living creatures“ of Ezekiel 10:14 are the primary prophets – “watchmen” – who give warning messages from God, of impending calamity to come upon His people.  The organization teaches that these creatures signify “attributes” of God.  (“Pure Worship” p.238)  How can that be, when they are found giving “glory, honor and thanks” to Him, around the heavenly throne?  (Rev 4:6-9)

Has the WT forgotten, that there is no form in heaven or on earth, which can depict Almighty God? (Isa 40:18,25; 46:5; Deut 5:8; Exod 20:4; Rom 1:25)
Do these manifestations of Almighty God fall down prostrate before the "Lamb"? 
(Rev 5:8; 1 Cor 15:27,28) 

Pearl Doxsey  https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-four-living-creatures.html

How can it be, that the watchmen for the organization didn’t read those scriptures and understand that the four living creatures, are watchmen and prophets? (much like David Splane’s awkward presentation about Wt's ignorance of Joel 2 and the identity of the locusts)

Speaking of barking dogs…

Isa 56:10,11 – “Israel's watchmen are blind, all of them, they know nothing; all of them are mute dogs, they cannot bark; they dream, lie down, and love to sleep. These dogs have fierce appetites; they never have enough. And they are shepherds who have no discernment; all of them turn to their own way, every last one for his own profit.”

The last watchman sent to God’s holy people is identified as preaching with the symbolic message of Moses – proclaiming God’s laws of truth; and the message of Elijah – the need to repent in the spirit of prophecy.    (Matt 17:1-7,11; Rev 11:1-3) This fourth living creature/watchman/prophet, relays the understanding of Revelation’s scrolls and how they apply to the downfall of God’s people during the Great Tribulation. (Rev 1:1-3) The anointed priests and all, are to come out of this covenant/promise of death - “Babylon”,  or they will share in the sins of the Harlot who, with her “Gentile” army, has trampled the anointed “living stones” of God’s Temple. (Dan 7:23;8:24,25;  2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 13:7; 11:1,2) God’s people, are the “kings of the earth”  from “nations, tribes, people, and tongues” who receive the message. (Rev 1:5; 5:9,10; 7:4) They have been deceived by Satan’s last attempt to destroy those under the New Covenant “woman”, as each anointed member labors to "give birth” to the Kingdom of life.  (Gal 4:24-26,28; Rev 12:1-4)

 

The oracle of the wilderness of the sea:

As storm winds passing over in the Negev,

it comes from the desert,
    from a frightful land.

² A hard revelation is told to me;

the treacherous deals treacherously,
    and the destroyer destroys.
Go up, Elam;
    lay siege, Media!

I put an end to all of her sighing.

³ Therefore my loins are filled with anguish;
    pangs have seized me, like the pangs of a woman giving birth.
I am too bent to hear,
    I am too dismayed to see.
⁴ My mind staggers; fear terrifies me;
    the twilight I desired brought me fear.
⁵ Set out the table in order!
    Spread out the rugs!^{[g] (“watch in the watchtower”)}
    Eat! drink!
Rise up, commanders;
    smear the shield!

⁶ For the Lord said this to me:

“Go, set a watchman in position.
    He must announce what he sees.
⁷ Whenhe sees riders,
    a pair of horsemen,
riders of donkeys,^[l]
    riders of camels,
then he must listen attentively,
    paying attention, paying special^[p] attention.” (“a severe revelation”)

⁸ Then the watchman^{[r] (“lion”, one of the 4 faces of the four living creatures)} called,

“Lord, I am standing on the watchtower continually by day,
    and I am standing at my post throughout the night.
⁹ And look at this! A man’s a chariot is coming,
    a pair of horsemen!”

Then he responded and said,

“It has fallen! Babylon has fallen!
    And all the images of her gods are smashed on the ground!”
¹⁰ My downtrodden people
    and the son of my threshing floor,

I will announce to you what I have heard from Yahweh of hosts, the God of Israel.  Isa 21:1-10

Rev 14:8 - “And another second angel followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, who caused all the nations to drink from the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.”

Rev 18:2 - And he cried out with a powerful voice, saying,

“Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great,
and it has become a dwelling place of demons
and a haunt of every unclean spirit
and a haunt of every unclean bird
and a haunt of every unclean and detested animal.”

And I heard another voice from heaven saying,

“Come out from her, my people,
so that you will not participate in her sins,
and so that you will not receive her plagues,
⁵ because her sins have reached up to heaven,
and God has remembered her crimes.
⁶ Pay back to her as she herself also paid out,
and pay back double according to her deeds;
in the cup that she mixed, mix double for her.
⁷ As much as she glorified herself and lived in luxury,
give to her so much torment and mourning,
because in her heart she said,
‘I sit as a queen, and am not a widow,
and I will never see mourning!’
⁸ Because of this her plagues will come in one day—
death and mourning and famine—
and she will be burned up with fire,
because the Lord God who passes judgment on her is powerful!” (Jer 23:29)

 

If we remain in the darkness of no understanding, which all of Wt’s failed predictions are, and refuse to turn toJesus Christ for the light of truth, we are remaining in “Babylon”, the "mother" covenant of death.  (Isa 28:1-22; Rev 17:5)