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Are Jehovah’s Witnesses “Too Dogmatic”?

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27 minutes ago, AlanF said:

My favorite example of such mealy mouthed deception is from the Proclaimers book (p. 163). Speaking about what Rutherford and company taught in the decade after 1914, it said:

<< As the years passed and they examined and reexamined the Scriptures, their faith in the prophecies remained strong, and they did not hold back from stating what they expected to occur. With varying degrees of success, they endeavored to avoid being dogmatic about details not directly stated in the Scriptures. >

It might sound mealy mouthed, but it's hardly deception.

They tried hard not to be dogmatic, but they didn’t always succeed. Sometimes they did well and were not dogmatic, and sometimes they didn’t do well, and were dogmatic.

I believe they endeavored to avoid being dogmatic. But obviously didn't always succeed.

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2 hours ago, Anna said:

I am aware that our mothers would say we would never go to school, that Armageddon would be here by then.

She had not been alone in that reasoning. My wife' mother gave same lesson to her ;))) Imagine how many miles Croatia and your country have distance, but The Same Teaching moves around heads of JW's. Tell me someone, please, how is possible that some individual in USA start to make gossips about 1975 and how that wrong idea ended in one little town in one communist Balkan state ???  :)))))

Have in mind how we talking about generation borne in 1961. In 1968/69 they start to go to Grammar school. Here we have 8 years (you have 10) of this school. And 1975 is so close .... There is no chance to finish school before 1975 Armagedon :)))))

Definition of dogmatism

1: the expression of an opinion or belief as if it were a fact : positiveness in assertion of opinion especially when unwarranted or arrogant
2: a viewpoint or system of ideas based on insufficiently examined 
    Hello guest!
Merriam Webster source
 
    Hello guest!
 
    Hello guest!
 
    Hello guest!
 in a 
    Hello guest!
 way and not 
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 anyone else's 
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Cambridge source
 
Every ideology we facing is dogmatic !! 
 

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16 hours ago, Anna said:

It might sound mealy mouthed, but it's hardly deception.

They tried hard not to be dogmatic, but they didn’t always succeed. Sometimes they did well and were not dogmatic, and sometimes they didn’t do well, and were dogmatic.

I believe they endeavored to avoid being dogmatic. But obviously didn't always succeed.

Kind of like "he endeavored to avoid being dead". But he didn't always succeed.

You are what you are until you're not.

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1 hour ago, AlanF said:
18 hours ago, Anna said:

It might sound mealy mouthed, but it's hardly deception.

They tried hard not to be dogmatic, but they didn’t always succeed. Sometimes they did well and were not dogmatic, and sometimes they didn’t do well, and were dogmatic.

I believe they endeavored to avoid being dogmatic. But obviously didn't always succeed.

Kind of like "he endeavored to avoid being dead". But he didn't always succeed.

You are what you are until you're not.

I don't think so, more like "some people just can't help themselves"

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4 hours ago, Anna said:

I don't think so, more like "some people just can't help themselves"

I agree that some people can't help themselves when it comes to lying. The Watchtower Writing Staff in particular.

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44 minutes ago, BlahBlahWoofWoof! said:

Can we say Jesus was dogmatic? Does anyone have an answer about Jesus and the apostles?

Dogmatism: "the tendency to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true, without consideration of evidence or the opinions of others". So I think Jesus had the right to be dogmatic because he had authority from God to lay down principles, and he didn't need to consider evidence or opinions of others for the same reason. However, in areas that didn't demand it, he did consider others, and at no time was he arrogant and haughty. Arrogance and haughtiness are negative synonyms of being dogmatic. Same goes for the apostles, but of course since they were imperfect, they didn't succeed as Jesus did. 

 

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

Dogmatism: "the tendency to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true, without consideration of evidence or the opinions of others". So I think Jesus had the right to be dogmatic because he had authority from God to lay down principles, and he didn't need to consider evidence or opinions of others for the same reason. However, in areas that didn't demand it, he did consider others, and at no time was he arrogant and haughty. Arrogance and haughtiness are negative synonyms of being dogmatic. Same goes for the apostles, but of course since they were imperfect, they didn't succeed as Jesus did. 

If Jesus gave that authority to his followers, what would be the difference? I’m no referring to personal authority, but of that given by God. Do you believe the Holy Spirit doesn’t have any authority?

Are we not slaves to God and Christ? Isn't showing the same zeal that Christ displayed be done in today's Christianity? The principles of faith need to live with us.

 

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10 hours ago, BlahBlahWoofWoof! said:

If Jesus gave that authority to his followers, what would be the difference? I’m no referring to personal authority, but of that given by God. Do you believe the Holy Spirit doesn’t have any authority?

 

Are we not slaves to God and Christ? Isn't showing the same zeal that Christ displayed be done in today's Christianity? The principles of faith need to live with us.

Jesus’ followers have limited authority in every way. The authority given to them by Jesus  is to look after the sheep in their care, not lording it over them,  to keep the congregations morally and spiritually clean, and encourage them in the work Jesus commanded (preaching the good news). Also they were to provide spiritual food at the proper time. This did not mean re- inventing scripture or experimenting and then being dogmatic about the interpretation unless its proved crystal clear.

If the holy spirit had authority to “make” people do things, then people under its influence would never make any mistakes. It does not have that authority. Holy spirit only works if the person is willing to be molded by it. We know mistakes have been made in interpretation and organization.  Obviously Holy spirit was unable to influence that. The organization itself does not like the word dogmatic being applied to it because of its negative connotation. This is because imperfect humans do not have the right to be dogmatic about anything really.

 

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On 12/1/2019 at 6:08 AM, Anna said:

They tried hard not to be dogmatic,

:))))

11 hours ago, Anna said:

Dogmatism: "the tendency to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true, without consideration of evidence or the opinions of others".

I like this description. Can we make agreement how Truth is not Dogmatic. Because Dogmatism of any sort has no chance to be Truthful at all. 

If we have religious men (GB in this conversation) who giving direction to members we learned this from them: 

They decide to say how they are not inspired. They explained how because that particular reason (not been inspired) they err in doctrines and teachings and instructions. 

How sounds this to you? It sounds very nice. These are definitions that no one would named as Dogmatic. You agree? I also agree. But what is reality? GB have mechanisms to implement all uninspired, err and wrong doctrines, teachings and instructions in life of congregants and to successfully hold them (members) in obedience, not to Truth, but to Dogma. Because many GB doctrines, teachings and instructions based on False Ideas are Dogmas not Truth. That means how Dogmas in form of Religious beliefs are dogmatic itself (Dogmas are not Doctrines or Teachings, because we aspect this last two to be truth), and people who pushing Dogmas on other are Dogmatists. 

As we see, when GB talking about self as people who can err, sounds as very reasonable people. But still, despite that, they want you to obey their dogmatic ideas.

11 hours ago, Anna said:

So I think Jesus had the right to be dogmatic because he had authority from God to lay down principles, and he didn't need to consider evidence or opinions of others for the same reason.

No, i would not go to such level of comparison. Many of us here agreed with statement how Jesus taught Truth only. Because of that he didn't need to be dogmatic. He left to people choice to choose will they accept or reject his teachings. Authority from God, you mentioned, not give him right nor he want to used such authority to demand from people, not even from those who followed him, to blindly follow and obey him. And because of this reason we don't consider him to be dogmatic. He didn't spread dogmas. But his followers did and doing that today.

11 hours ago, Anna said:

However, in areas that didn't demand it, he did consider others, and at no time was he arrogant and haughty. Arrogance and haughtiness are negative synonyms of being dogmatic. Same goes for the apostles, but of course since they were imperfect, they didn't succeed as Jesus did. 

All areas in Jesus' teachings i don't put on two or more levels. As we would need to see some of teachings to be more and other as less important. Do we have some examples from which we can conclude how he considered meetings as more important than preaching or vice versa? Or, to give money in temple box to be more important than helping needing one (brother or not brother) with that same money? If you know Bible text who give more light on this it will be good to read. 

What is more important for Christian to do today? Going to Betel service or to preach? If preaching Kingdom is of ultimate importance for JW members you don't need Betel buildings. So redirect all money to preaching and if you need building for some reasons, make it smaller and less expensive and employ 10 people not 400. Just illustration. :)))  

In what areas Jesus give you freedom and in what he is demanding?

In what areas GB give you freedom and in what they are demanding? 

Try to make comparative list! :))  

I am interested to see result you or any other will have.

8 minutes ago, Anna said:

Obviously Holy spirit was unable to influence that.

I guess how this is not sin against HS, but just opinion ..... about fact how people's spirit are stronger ... sometimes.

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4 hours ago, Anna said:

This did not mean re- inventing scripture or experimenting and then being dogmatic about the interpretation unless its proved crystal clear.

It is true that no one has the right to reinvent scripture or interpret scripture to cause others to follow them 1Timothy 4:1 instead of the word of God, but I can see where we have the power as Christians by the authority of Christ who sent us to continue his work. Romans 10:13-15

I don’t see where a Christian can go wrong when they follow the word of God Psalm 18:30 and apply that word of God with the same strength Jesus applied it. Matthew 5:48

Can you provide how someone has proven the ancient scrolls with a crystal clear interpretation?

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