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A Difficult Doctrine. With an easy explanation.


JW Insider

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

For example, 1914 is mentioned in Chapter 8 but the whole big section on 1914 with charts and diagrams in "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" were moved to the Appendix, whereas they had previously been in the main text.

  • The 2018 Watchtower Study edition never mentioned 1914 once.
  • The 2018 Watchtower Public edition only mentioned 1914 once.*
  • The 2019 Watchtower Public editions never mentioned 1914 once.

*And only as a fulfillment for Jesus' prophecy about wars and reports of wars, NOT as a fulfillment related to Christ's enthronement.

Compare this to 76 mentions in the Watchtower for 2014.

You are right. I was equating the importance not so much in the number of times it is mentioned, but that it is mentioned at all!

I just tried to create a graph, but alas, since I've never done one either in word or excel, I failed miserably. I got the horizontal axis right, but I just can't find how to create the vertical axis and how to change the data (numbers) for the vertical axis so I completely messed up. In any case, the chart would show that since 1950 Watchtowers, the mention of 1914 has a sharp downward trend. During 1950 to 1959, it was mentioned 891 times, and during 2000-2009 it was mentioned 216 times. I don't have data for the years 2010 to 2019. So comparatively there is a big difference, but it still seems like too many mentions, if we are thinking along the lines of it slowly being phased out. In my opinion anyway....

 

45 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

Face it, its was you, JTR, TTH, Anna that get people banned. But here we go, I prove you wrong, and now you're using it as an excuse to ban.

coffee lol GIF

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The old method of handling this was to use the expression "present truth." Many adventists including Seventh Day still use the expression. It's based on a mistranslation of 2 Peter 1:12 where the KJV

Now I understand why many executives disallow any reports to them longer than one page. They KNOW how easy it is to be hypnotized by many words, which for some, is a finely tuned art form.

I was thinking that this was part of the normal run of the buses, and knowing you can't tell if a bus was speeding by checking the mileage. So it reminded me of the joke about the two fishermen,

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

During 1950 to 1959, it was mentioned 891 times, and during 2000-2009 it was mentioned 216 times. I don't have data for the years 2010 to 2019.

For 2010 to 2019, it was 213 times for those years. But this includes the superspike for the 100 year anniversary when both 2013 and 2014 included 121 between them, representing more than half of the decade in just those two years. If those two years had been normal years, the total would have been just 213-121+9+9=110.

2013 and 2014 included the preparation and finale of a big push for a 1914 centennial. And maybe it's just me, but I have a feeling that it fell kind of flat.

There was another of these "anniversaries" (70th) that was built up in 1983 and 1984, where that decade's yearly average was doubled in '83 and tripled in '84 -- very similar to what happened in 2013 and 2014 when that average was quadrupled in 2013 and then septupled in 2014.

(BTW, if you made a chart that broke this into 5 year intervals, a trend would seem much more obvious.)

Still, I don't think it's being slowly phased out. I think that it gets mentioned less as it seems less important, and less practical to our current issues. It is no longer a field service "draw" based on the generation that would not die out as it would have been in 1983/4 when the generation meant something else. Once something has lost some of its importance, someone will start reconsidering whether it was ever that important at all, and this might encourage a reconsideration of the Gentile Times doctrine into a simpler, more Biblical teaching. (Just my opinion of course.)

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Nothing has changed with word manipulation.

My sentiments exactly!

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

I don't wish to give anything.

I noticed. I was speaking about giving evidence.

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

I could go even further about Russell's spoken words.

You should have. It would provide even more evidence for what I was saying.

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Put you're the researcher and ranking expert here. Your supposed to know all that already.

You are the only one I know who repeatedly tries to call me an "expert." I have never claimed this about myself. I just happen to have had several assignments that gave me an opportunity to read all of Russell's writings in the Bethel Library between about 1977 and 1982. And I have enjoyed reading further and refreshing my memory on some of this now that almost everything Russell wrote is so easily accessible online, and checkable against my physical library that contains most (but not all) of Russell's writings.

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

(BTW, if you made a chart that broke this into 5 year intervals, a trend would seem much more obvious.)

 

I'm not going to make a chart, coz I don't know how. I could always draw one by hand I suppose,lol.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

For 2010 to 2019, it was 213 times for those years...... If those two years had been normal years, the total would have been just 213-121+9+9=110.

Thanks!

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

2013 and 2014 included the preparation and finale of a big push for a 1914 centennial. And maybe it's just me, but I have a feeling that it fell kind of flat.

I got the same impression too...

I don't think the new generation of Witnesses (my son's age) attach such great importance to it as the older generation did (heck, I'm not even sure they would know how to explain it).  And the older generation is kind of tired now, I think.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Still, I don't think it's being slowly phased out. I think that it gets mentioned less as it seems less important, and less practical to our current issues. It is no longer a field service "draw" based on the generation that would not die out as it would have been in 1983/4 when the generation meant something else. Once something has lost some of its importance, someone will start reconsidering whether it was ever that important at all, and this might encourage a reconsideration of the Gentile Times doctrine into a simpler, more Biblical teaching. (Just my opinion of course.)

I agree. I listened again to Br. Splane's talk ( HERE  starting at 2 hours:8 minutes mark) that you posted a link to and noted that toward the end he said "Our love should be for the truth, and not for a particular doctrine or teaching". And of course that's very true. So how dear do we hold the 1914 doctrine? And since the topic heading is "A difficult doctrine, with an easy explanation" I am posting one of the difficult explanations  from  "Bible questions answered" "What Does Bible Chronology Indicate About the Year 1914?"  (On line HERE) And lets see how easy we can make it, following the "new way" for Bible interpretation regarding types and antitypes as per Br. Splane.  You go first  😎.

The Bible’s answer

Bible chronology indicates that God’s Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. This is shown by a prophecy recorded in chapter 4 of the Bible book of Daniel.

Overview of the prophecy. God caused King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to have a prophetic dream about an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump was prevented from regrowing for a period of “seven times,” after which the tree would grow again.—Daniel 4:1, 10-16.

The prophecy’s initial fulfillment. The great tree represented King Nebuchadnezzar himself. (Daniel 4:20-22) He was figuratively ‘chopped down’ when he temporarily lost his sanity and kingship for a period of seven years. (Daniel 4:25) When God restored his sanity, Nebuchadnezzar regained his throne and acknowledged God’s rulership.—Daniel 4:34-36.

Evidence that the prophecy has a greater fulfillment. The whole purpose of the prophecy was that “people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.” (Daniel 4:17) Was proud Nebuchadnezzar the one to whom God ultimately wanted to give such rulership? No, for God had earlier given him another prophetic dream showing that neither he nor any other political ruler would fill this role. Instead, God would himself “set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.”—Daniel 2:31-44.

Previously, God had set up a kingdom to represent his rulership on earth: the ancient nation of Israel. God allowed that kingdom to be made “a ruin” because its rulers had become unfaithful, but he foretold that he would give kingship to “the one who has the legal right.” (Ezekiel 21:25-27) The Bible identifies Jesus Christ as the one legally authorized to receive this everlasting kingdom. (Luke 1:30-33) Unlike Nebuchadnezzar, Jesus is “lowly in heart,” just as it was prophesied.—Matthew 11:29.

What does the tree of Daniel chapter 4 represent? In the Bible, trees sometimes represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) In the greater fulfillment of Daniel chapter 4, the immense tree symbolizes God’s rulership.

What does the tree’s being chopped down mean? Just as the chopping down of the tree represented an interruption in Nebuchadnezzar’s kingship, it also represented an interruption in God’s rulership on earth. This happened when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, where the kings of Israel sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself.—1 Chronicles 29:23.

What do the “seven times” represent? The “seven times” represent the period during which God allowed the nations to rule over the earth without interference from any kingdom that he had set up. The “seven times” began in October 607 B.C.E., when, according to Bible chronology, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. *2 Kings 25:1, 8-10.

How long are the “seven times”? They could not be merely seven years as in Nebuchadnezzar’s case. Jesus indicated the answer when he said that “Jerusalem [a symbol of God’s rulership] will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) “The appointed times of the nations,” the period during which God allowed his rulership to be “trampled on by the nations,” are the same as the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4. This means that the “seven times” were still under way even when Jesus was on earth.

The Bible provides the way to determine the length of those prophetic “seven times.” It says that three and a half “times” equal 1,260 days, so “seven times” equal twice that number, or 2,520 days. (Revelation 12:6, 14) Applying the prophetic rule “a day for a year,” the 2,520 days represent 2,520 years. Therefore, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, would end in October 1914.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.

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41 minutes ago, Anna said:

You go first  😎.

Do you mean go first to explain 1914 as a true possibility in a simpler way? Or do you mean go first to explain Daniel 4 in a simpler way (with or without 1914)?

The funny thing is that Brother Splane without realizing it, I think, already gave a very appropriate analogy for what's wrong with the 1914 doctrine when he decided to point out some particularly ridiculous "typologies" that did things like try to make something out of the number of fish caught by the disciples after Jesus was resurrected, namely, 153. Then he went on to show the ridiculousness of trying to read too much into the story of Jacob and Esau and the bowl of stew. Brother Splane said:

One scholar made much of Jacob’s purchase of Esau’s birthright with a bowl of red stew. Very significant that the stew was red. To him, the red stew pictured the red blood of Christ. The inheritance pictured the heavenly inheritance. It’s all… By that reasoning, Jacob pictures Jesus, Esau’s birthright pictures the heavenly inheritance, and the red stew pictures Jesus’ precious blood.

Now on the surface that might sound plausible to some, until you think about it. When you think about it you see three problems. First of all, Jehovah didn’t design the type. Jehovah did not tell Esau to sell his birthright. Selling his birthright was wrong, and Jehovah never tells us to do something that’s wrong. Second, who ate the stew? Esau did. So are we to conclude that, by giving up his inheritance, Esau put himself in line for the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ? That doesn’t make any sense. And most importantly, nowhere in Scripture do we read that the event was a type.

The temptation to go for chronological numerology over 153 fish should remind us of how we take 7 times and turn them into 7x360 to get the number of Jewish prophetic days using a 360 day year, and then turning each of those 2,520 days into solar years of 365.25 days apiece so that we can get 2,520 solar years, to reach from the fall of Jerusalem down to modern times. And then we must readjust the archaeological dates by about 20 years to make them reach 1914 instead of 1934. 

But the biggest problem is the same as the sentences about Esau above, which we can correlate with a similar problem with Nebuchadnezzar:

Second, who ate the stew? Esau did. So are we to conclude that, by giving up his inheritance, Esau put himself in line for the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ? That doesn’t make any sense. And most importantly, nowhere in Scripture do we read that the event was a type.

Now we can have the same situation regarding Nebuchadnezzar in Splane English

Second, who was forced to lose his kingdom and then became insane? Nebuchadnezzar did. So are we to conclude that, by giving up his kingdom and acting insane for a time, that Nebuchadnezzar put himself in line to represent the Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ? That doesn't make any sense. And most importantly, nowhere in Scripture do we read that this event was a type.

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20 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

do you mean go first to explain Daniel 4 in a simpler way (without 1914)

Yes

20 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

already gave a very appropriate analogy for what's wrong with the 1914 doctrine... try to make something out of the number of fish caught by the disciples after Jesus was resurrected, namely, 153.

That immediately crossed my mind too!

And also when talking about the pyramids, he quoted Rutherford who said "Jehovah doesn't need a stone monument built by pagans to accomplish his purpose" it made me think why would he use pagan Nebuchadnezzar to illustrate Christ's rulership?

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23 minutes ago, Anna said:

Could you post the link to one?

There are dozens. When I mentioned going back 300 years I was thinking that a lot of people start with Matthew Henry's from the 1700's.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/mhc/Dan/Dan_004.cfm?a=854001

But there are many more modern ones these days that might appear too long, but that's partly because they also reprint the entire Bible text, split up into sections.

https://wernerbiblecommentary.org/?q=node/732

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/jfb/Dan/Dan_004.cfm?a=854001

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/smith_chuck/c2000_Dan/Dan_001.cfm?a=854001

The Chapter 4 portion of this one, above, includes the following supposition:

The seven times are probably a year and three quarters. Referring to the summer, fall, winter, spring, rather than seven years. And so for a year and three quarters, king Nebuchadnezzar was to be insane. He was to live with the ox and out in the field. He was to eat grass like a wild animal. This was to continue until he realize that the God in heaven is the One who rules over the earth as far as establishing kingdoms and setting in power those whom He will. God still rules in the overall sense. And sometimes God puts evil men into power in order to bring judgment upon the people. But God rules over all. So after Daniel interprets, he said, "Now look, king, straighten up, man. Live right. You know, it may be that you can increase the days of your peace because you know this is going to come on you. But maybe by living right you can forestall it a bit."

[Others have guessed 7 "time periods" were 7 months. But the point is, that we don't know for sure]

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide2017-Dan/Dan-4.cfm?a=854001

That one, above, includes the idea that if there is any further prophetic significance to the dream, that it could mean this:

Some find prophetic significance in this account. Since Babylon is used in the Scriptures as a figure of the world system in general, we can say:

· Nebuchadnezzar’s madness foreshadows the madness of Gentile nations in their rejection of God.

· Nebuchadnezzar’s fall typifies Jesus’ judgment of the nations.

· Nebuchadnezzar’s restoration foreshadows the restoring of some of these nations in the millennial kingdom.

 

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Here's a start. But I can't get into Daniel 4 without something like the following as a "preamble:"

 

"What Does Bible Chronology Indicate About the Year 1914?"

The Bible’s answer

I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be. (John 14:4)

For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God. (Romans 8:19)

Bible chronology is a topic that has intrigued many Bible readers for centuries. The desire to see Jesus return has driven many to focus on combinations of Biblical numbers and dates so that these combinations will usually point to Jesus' return in their own lifetime, or at least the very near future.

Now that we are 2,000 years from the time that Jesus walked the earth, preached, and died, there are very few ways to manipulate prophetic numbers so they will reach our own time period. There are the 1,260 days of Revelation and Daniel, which are also called "three and one-half times." And there are some other periods mentioned in Daniel including the 1,290 days, 1,335 days, and 2,300 evenings and mornings.

The common method for making such periods end in our own day has been to turn each day into a year. But this leaves us in the "middle of nowhere" if we were to count back from today. For example, 2020 minus 1260 brings us to 760 C.E. somewhere in the Middle Ages. Adding 1,260 to the date of Jesus' birth, baptism, death or resurrection would similarly bring us to dates in the 13th century C.E. Using the number 2,300 from any event in the lifetime of Jesus life would point to a time nearly 300 years in the future, and this would have very little appeal to a Bible chronologist or anyone with an "eager expectation." And pointing back 2,300 years from today takes us to 280 B.C.E., another point that is nearly 300 years before Jesus and as much as 300 years after any major event in the kingdom of Israel or Judea. 

Other "clever" methods have been used to reach modern times. In the 18th and 19th centuries it was common for Protestants to point back only about 1,260 years to reach some seemingly important events in Catholic history. (For example, 1799 CE minus 1,260 years brings us to about 539 CE., when the Holy Roman Empire was losing its grip on Europe.) Another method was to look at the number of years between the time of Jesus and a "modern" date, and then look at that same period of time in the B.C.E. period, looking for a potentially significant event. In other words, if it were nearly 1843 C.E., for example, they would look to see if anything interesting might have happened around 1843 B.C.E. If this method pointed near to any significant time (like the birth of Jacob/Israel or the death of Jacob/Israel) then there was only a need to adjust a few years in either direction to find many other potentially significant dates that were "exactly" a certain number of years before events in Jesus' life. Counting forward that same number of years might be expected to result in dates of parallel significance in their own modern times.

A natural goal would be to find a Biblical time period that was either closer to 2,000 to reach events in Jesus' lifetime on earth, or as high as 2,600 or more to reach back to the end of the kings of Israel or Judea.

In the 19th century, several writers and preachers began looking for just such a period of time, and they found it in the "seven times." After all, if "three and one-half times" was 1,260 days, then "seven times" would a period that was twice that long: 2,520 days, i.e., 2,520 years. This was an ideal way to reach from the 19th century back to the final kings of Jerusalem. Some found that 2,520 years reached back to King Josiah and found some significance in that. Some found it reached back to the time when Babylon began attacking the people of Judea and Jerusalem and found some significance there, too. Ideally, it would seem more significant if the event were even more spectacular, such as the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple which almost all scholars in the 19th century were dating to about 586 BCE. Today, more than a century later, this is still considered to be about the most accurate date by almost all scholars of that period, especially after literally thousands more pieces of evidence have come to light.

Any date 2,520 years from the destruction of the Temple (the end of the line of kings in Jerusalem) was too far in the future for most Bible chronologists of the 19th century. It reached as far forward as 1934, which was 90 years after 1844, the peak time of speculation in the United States. But after 1844 had failed, there were still small groups who had continued their speculation. One of these groups had focused on a version of the BCE-to-CE "parallel dispensations" method and had a chronology system that therefore already included 539 CE, 1799, 1844, 1874, 1878, 1881 and 1914. With only a 20-year adjustment to the 586 date that nearly all scholars pointed to, they used the date 606 BCE for Jerusalem's destruction, which therefore made it fit the 1914 date which was already part of their chronology system.

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On 12/10/2019 at 1:59 PM, JW Insider said:

Jesus came to earth to preach about a God's Kingdom through Christ and give himself over to death as a perfect ransom for sin, to fulfill the Law, and SIT AT GOD'S RIGHT HAND and therefore RULES AS KING since the time of his resurrection in 33 CE.

That's it. Simple. No contradictions with any Scripture.

From that point on, in 33 CE he SITS AT GOD'S RIGHT HAND and therefore RULES AS KING ruling in the midst of enemies, including war, famine, sickness, and will continue ruling as king until God has put all enemies under his feet, including the last enemy: death. 

I don’t see any backing off of 1914 whatsoever. It was pedal to the metal at last nights meeting where the assigned reading was Revelation 10-12. Moreover, I thought of talks I had put together over the years, using some of the details in those verses. I thought of how I had made a big deal of Rutherford & crew unambiguously ‘advertise, advertise, advertising’ the King and his Kingdom at almost the exact same moment that the Federal Counsel of Churches was hailing the League of Nations as the political expression of the kingdom on earth today—each side publicly parting ways at the fork in the road.

I read that background WT of how 100 years ago it could not even have been conceived that humans might “ruin the earth,” yet how that manifestly is a great  threat today, as humans invent & implement new technologies without regard or ability to control the consequences. (I finally figured out why my wife had been able to get the Research Guide on her IPad but not me on mine—I had thought it was @James Thomas Rook Jr. messing with me from afar.)

And now you propose that it should all go? What would be the effect of this strange new teaching of yours that Jesus began to rule in 1933–period, end of story—and that WWI was just “boys will be boys?” How will it affect “last days,” ‘urgency of the end,’ ‘the end of all things has drawn close’ ‘ridiculers will come with their ridicule’ and so forth?

Do I understand this correctly? (Maybe I don’t) We have been living in the last days since 33? Constantine lived in the last days and should have been keeping on the watch? Napoleon lived in the last days? George Washington lived in the last days? Sleepy Rip Van Winkle lived in the last ‘Keep on the watch’ days? People couldn’t even read that there were last days that they were supposed to be keeping on the watch for until 3-400 years ago when the Bible began to appear in languages other than Latin!

I think the “33 doctrine” effectively waters down the urgency of keeping on the watch to the point where the practical response is—why do it at all?

I can envision several historic Watchtowers, to run in successive weeks:

1) We are out of harmony with the majority of ancient date scholars. Therefore, let us acknowledge that they must be right, and kick 1914 to the curb—Advertising, League, WWI, Atlanta—it all goes.

2) We are out of harmony with the majority of scientists. Therefore let us concede that Darwinian evolution is the bee’s knees and let us consign Adam and Eve to fairy tale.

3) Let us work on giving our children a “good education” so that they can get a “good job” and turn their talents to making a difference in the world—let us get in there and fix those problems! We can do it!

4) Let’s get Trump out of office and the sooner the better! He spreads meanness. Of course, we realize that some in the congregation will feel another way. They can buy another building and meet there.

5) Let’s focus more on love. Why should we care about what gender people are attracted to? The Bible was written a long time ago when people had different sociological needs and were less enlightened than now.

6) Let’s lighten up on the kingdom preaching work. Who knows how far off it is? I mean, if you have time on your hands and nothing else to do, that’s okay, but don’t let it get in the way of anything important. Let’s have our religion but keep it in its place. There are many roads and they all lead to heaven.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Any date 2,520 years from the destruction of the Temple (the end of the line of kings in Jerusalem) was too far in the future for most Bible chronologists of the 19th century. It reached as far as 1934, which was 90 years after the peak time of speculation in the United States: 1844. But after 1844 had failed, there were still small groups who had continued their speculation. One of these groups had focused on a version of the BCE-to-CE "parallel dispensations" method and had a chronology system that therefore already included 1844, 1874, 1878, 1881 and 1914. With only a 20-year adjustment to the time when all scholars were pointing to 586 BC, they decided to use the date 606 BC for Jerusalem's destruction and therefore made it fit the 1914 date which was already part of their chronology system.

That highlights it all.

Funnily enough, before you posted this, I had already written a draft of my "1914 musings" last night and thought of this::

"1914 is such an attractive doctrine. The the numbers from Daniel 4 add up quite nicely, and then when applied to 607 BCE we arrive at a momentous and significant world event, which could be said to be the time when Jesus fought with Satan, (as per Revelation) throwing him out of heaven, to the the vicinity of the earth, causing him to be so mad that he arranges for an Archduke to be shot, setting in motion the beginning of a world wide war (pretty significant). Also he (Satan), has a short period of time before all his evil shenanigans are brought to an end by a warrior king, Jesus, and thereby a specific time period, with a beginning and end, is set in motion (the last days) and those days were to start and end within one generation.

(As we know, there are complications with 607, but if we were to apply Daniel's numbers to 20 years later, then nothing major or significant happened on the world scene in 1935..although if we were to apply it, then a generation would fit quite nicely in there, making those who were born in 1935, eighty five years old today. This could still buy us another 10 years, and it could still be said that it was one generation. (If we call the lifespan of man a generation). If I remember right though, wasn't it 1935 that SOMETHING significant did happen for the Witnesses? Wasn't it when the great crowd was identified?" )

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The desire to see Jesus return has driven many to focus on combinations of Biblical numbers and dates so that these combinations will usually point to Jesus' return in their own lifetime, or at least the very near future.

Yes, a logical conclusion and we have seen this with our own (Russell, then Rutherford, then Franz, and now the current GB....always within in each respective groups lifetime" )

Of course we all know that if the 1914 doctrine was ever changed because of our "love for the the truth and not for the doctrine" (if indeed it turned out to be erroneous) it would be quite significant because it would automatically nullify 1919 when the FDS was supposedly appointed. It brings to mind something else that Br, Splane said in the video. He said something like would we allow an adjustment to previous understanding "touch our spiritual nerve". Good question, especially with regard to 1914.

I don't mean to be skeptical, but I wonder if an alternative to 1914 is already being carefully studied....just in case the end is not here yet in 50 years....

 

 

 

 

 

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    • It appears to me that this is a key aspect of the 2030 initiative ideology. While the Rothschilds were indeed influential individuals who were able to sway governments, much like present-day billionaires, the true impetus for change stems from the omnipotent forces (Satan) shaping our world. In this case, there is a false God of this world. However, what drives action within a political framework? Power! What is unfolding before our eyes in today's world? The relentless struggle for power. The overwhelming tide of people rising. We cannot underestimate the direct and sinister influence of Satan in all of this. However, it is up to individuals to decide how they choose to worship God. Satanism, as a form of religion, cannot be regarded as a true religion. Consequently, just as ancient practices of child sacrifice had a place in God's world, such sacrifices would never be accepted by the True God of our universe. Despite the promising 2030 initiative for those involved, it is unfortunately disintegrating due to the actions of certain individuals in positions of authority. A recent incident serves as a glaring example, involving a conflict between peaceful Muslims and a Jewish representative that unfolded just this week. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/11/us-delegation-saudi-arabia-kippah?ref=upstract.com Saudi Arabia was among the countries that agreed to the initiative signed by approximately 179 nations in or around 1994. However, this initiative is now being undermined by the devil himself, who is sowing discord among the delegates due to the ongoing Jewish-Hamas (Palestine) conflict. Fostering antisemitism. What kind of sacrifice does Satan accept with the death of babies and children in places like Gaza, Ukraine, and other conflicts around the world, whether in the past or present, that God wouldn't? Whatever personal experiences we may have had with well-known individuals, true Christians understand that current events were foretold long ago, and nothing can prevent them from unfolding. What we are witnessing is the result of Satan's wrath upon humanity, as was predicted. A true religion will not involve itself in the politics of this world, as it is aware of the many detrimental factors associated with such engagement. It understands the true intentions of Satan for this world and wisely chooses to stay unaffected by them.
    • This idea that Satan can put Jews in power implies that God doesn't want Jews in power. But that would also imply that God only wants "Christians" including Hitler, Biden, Pol Pot, Chiang Kai-Shek, etc. 
    • @Mic Drop, I don't buy it. I watched the movie. It has all the hallmarks of the anti-semitic tropes that began to rise precipitously on social media during the last few years - pre-current-Gaza-war. And it has similarities to the same anti-semitic tropes that began to rise in Europe in the 900's to 1100's. It was back in the 500s AD/CE that many Khazars failed to take or keep land they fought for around what's now Ukraine and southern Russia. Khazars with a view to regaining power were still being driven out into the 900's. And therefore they migrated to what's now called Eastern Europe. It's also true that many of their groups converted to Judaism after settling in Eastern Europe. It's possibly also true that they could be hired as mercenaries even after their own designs on empire had dwindled.  But I think the film takes advantage of the fact that so few historical records have ever been considered reliable by the West when it comes to these regions. So it's easy to fill the vacuum with some very old antisemitic claims, fables, rumors, etc..  The mention of Eisenhower in the movie was kind of a giveaway, too. It's like, Oh NO! The United States had a Jew in power once. How on earth could THAT have happened? Could it be . . . SATAN??" Trying to tie a connection back to Babylonian Child Sacrifice Black Magick, Secret Satanism, and Baal worship has long been a trope for those who need to think that no Jews like the Rothschilds and Eisenhowers (????) etc would not have been able to get into power in otherwise "Christian" nations without help from Satan.    Does child sacrifice actually work to gain power?? Does drinking blood? Does pedophilia??? (also mentioned in the movie) Yes, it's an evil world and many people have evil ideologies based on greed and lust and ego. But how exactly does child sacrifice or pedophilia or drinking blood produce a more powerful nation or cabal of some kind? To me that's a giveaway that the authors know that the appeal will be to people who don't really care about actual historical evidence. Also, the author(s) of the video proved that they have not done much homework, but are just trying to fill that supposed knowledge gap by grasping at old paranoid and prejudicial premises. (BTW, my mother and grandmother, in 1941 and 1942, sat next to Dwight Eisenhower's mother at an assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Eisenhower family had been involved in a couple of "Christian" religions and a couple of them associated with IBSA and JWs for many years.)
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