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Srecko Sostar

Receiving and giving with measure. Receiving and giving without measure.

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Srecko Sostar -
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Dear reader.

You have often come across terms, God's holy spirit and God's love.
You have also often prayed for the favor of God, among other things asking that God's holy spirit help you, guide you, to have a spirit. Some Bible passages say that God gives something to people.

We find expressions that say how God gives:
- his spirit without measure - John 3:34.
- a certain measure of faith - Rom 12: 3
- a measure of grace - Eph. 4: 7
- measure of authority - 2 Cor. 10:13
- a double measure of blessing - Isaiah 61: 7
- double measure of inheritance - Deut 21:17
- double measure for bad deeds - Rev. 18: 6

Also how a man seeks or receives from another man:
- double measure of spirit - 2 Cr. 2: 9
- double honor - 1 Tim. 5:17

 

There are also allegations relating to love. How love is given or received and under what circumstances:

And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him. ”- John 14:21
For God loved the world, - John 3:16
I love those who love me - Prov 8:17
Your love, O LORD, reaches to the heavens - Psalm 36: 5 -7
I have loved you with everlasting love; - Jer 31: 3

 

From these statements we can see that love also works under certain circumstances. Sometimes it's eternal, going to heaven. Sometimes it is conditioned because he says: I will love you if you love me", "if you obey, listen me".

Based on the paragraphs that speak of giving / receiving a spirit, I could conclude that God gives the holy spirit to those who seek it, and those whose hearts are pure receive that spirit from God. When GB claims that they make mistakes in word and deed because they are not perfect and because they are not "spirit-inspired," then that is just an excuse. When they claim that they are not "inspired by the spirit of God," that would mean that God does not give his spirit to anyone, not even to them. So, if they, as "God's elected," "anointed," cannot be "inspired," then they are actually sending the message that no one else can be "inspired." And then such a claim has the consequence, meaning, that God and his spirit are not able to be active. God works through his spirit, doesn't he? Well, he created the universe with his spirit ?! He wrote the Bible with his spirit ?! He uttered prophecies with his spirit ?! And today the spirit is unable to act on the few people sitting in Warwick?

Does God lie when he says, "... for God gives the Spirit without limit. - John. 3:34

Is the problem in the spirit of God? Or is it a problem in humans? :))

 

 

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This is an excellent comment, Srecko. 

Has the organization’s leaders, with their consistent errors in doctrine and prophesy, ever had God’s Spirit?

2 Pet 1:21 - "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." NKJV

“for prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men borne along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”  Mounce

"But you must understand this at the outset, that no prophecy of scripture arose from an individual’s interpretation of the truth. No prophecy came because a man wanted it to: men of God spoke because they were inspired by the Holy Spirit." (Phillips)

It is so clear; if JWs would only take the guiding scriptures to heart and not the “guiding” words of men who not only admit they are not inspired, but have proven it to be true.  

Holy Spirit at Work - the Token:  

    Hello guest!

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@Srecko Sostar  Here in the UK we would say that you have 'opened up a can of worms'  with your words above.  You have opened the way to hundreds of questions. 

And although @Witness gives some very fine comments, she/he also opens the way to many questions. 

For God to fulfil his 'plans' I would think He would need some kind of 'united people' Earth wide. And hence He would need to guide those people by using/sending His Holy Spirit to them. 

But as the GB and presumably the Writing Dept et al, admit to not receiving God's Holy Spirit  then I presume God cannot be using them at this time.

No i don't expect humans to be perfect or to act perfectly.

But I do expect anyone chosen by God, to become leaders in God's chosen 'united people', to be inspired by God's Holy spirit so as to do their jobs properly.  

As you say Srecko, God works through His Holy Spirit. He has always done so in the past, why would He not do so now ?

 

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9 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

For God to fulfil his 'plans' I would think He would need some kind of 'united people' Earth wide. And hence He would need to guide those people by using/sending His Holy Spirit to them. 

Exactly!  There is a united loving group of people all over the earth under the name of God- jehovahs people.  The miracle is that they have unity despite being IMPERFECT.    Just like  old israel, dedicated to jehovah, individuals are imperfect and stumble like David and Solomon.  God loved David - but he did not have hundred 100% of gods spirit all the time. 

Jehovah can inspire a group of people to accomplish a purpose.  Israel of old brought forth the messiah and provided the imputus for the first congregations despite all the problems had with them. 

 The nation of God today allows for jehovah to accomplish the preaching work and guarantee survivors (a great crowd)  through armageddon.  The slave helps us to understand our stance of neutrality and morality - which will be tested.  Our faithfulness to Jehovahs kingdom government and its principles will be tested.  The slave teaches us what we need at this time......to survive Armageddon.

If you have so much of gods spirit that you can quote scriptures in a sly way to sow doubt on others who may have gods spirit? ..... Whose will are you serving?  

The facts are before you: there is a united nation for Jehovahs name - against all odds. They are preaching earth wide a kingdom government which christendom does not even understand to be a real government. Our members only vote by their loyal actions for gods government,  whereas christendom are all voting for various political factions and even going to any war their leaders wish to embroil them in. As for the godless..... we know what the bible has to say about them.

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I strongly suspect that Jehovah's Holy Spirit is given in direct proportion to the amount of Spirit you actually need.... considering that Jesus Christ and the Apostles had NO Real Estate whatsoever, as part of their Organization, and only enough money for the days food, and to the best of my knowledge, just the clothes on their backs, they needed a lot ... and they received a lot of Holy Spirit.

The Governing Body has billions of dollars in Real Estate, all over the world, and controls billions of dollars worth of money, to spend as they alone see fit.

... and dat's de fact, Jack.

SOOooooo... they are on their own.

..... as are the great majority of us.

I have SEEN Jehovah's Spirit build up and sustain several of the Anointed ones, who had no strength of resources of their own, and I suspect when it is needed ... actually NEEDED .. the rest of us "ground pounders" get it as well.

That is just my guess of how it works ... no more.

...and I suspect it is INVERSELY proportional to how much you have naturally, WITHOUT Jehovah's intervention.

 

 

 

the formula for that is 1/x.

There is probably a button on your pocket calculator for that.

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4 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

and controls billions of dollars worth of money, to spend as they alone see fit.

Just one question for you:  when you go to meeting or field service you get to use many videos that were made to be easily accessible for all ages and peoples.  Do you have any clue what equipment costs?   Many poor congregations in Africa receive projectors from the organization because they cannot afford it.

They do still print bibles and watchtowers etc.

Do you think they must remain in the Jurassic age when it comes to using technology or will it be ok by you if they venture to use the newest tech to support the brothers?

You have a budget to fulfill your responsibilities at home.....dont you?  Why not broaden out and see that they also need money to provide services in almost 1000 languages?  

I think we need a little more gratitude and less criticism...  ALL you see is "billions" which you try to imply are used for their own purposes.... 

They are always in need of funds to make it stretch further..... because we do get all our spiritual needs fulfilled without cost.  You need not give any donation if you feel they waste it.  You can use all amenities without giving a dime! 

 

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My donations are always by check, and written thereon is "for local needs".

It's like paying taxes, some of which are used to make hydrogen bombs, and ICBMs.

Not my problem.

Jesus and the Apostles needed NONE of those things you mentioned, Arauna.

If you are NOT inspired of God, as the GB admits they are not ( February 2017 Watchtower), you do need all of those things you mentioned.

They are actually essential, as I would freely admit.

.... and HEY!, I am just guessing about all of this ... as is everyone else.

40 minutes ago, Arauna said:

  I think we need a little more gratitude and less criticism...  ALL you see is "billions" which you try to imply are used for their own purposes.... 

And Arauna .... did you get NOTHING out of the "Follow Jesus" Assemblies?

Jesus set the example .

We are either following that example, or .....

WE ARE NOT.

The fact of the matter is that the GB DOES use the billions for their own purposes.

but, I am, as you stated, "no one to criticize" ... as I do not follow Jesus' example either.

If I had that kind of money, I would buy a Chinook double rotor helicopter, instead of Rolex watches, and cartoons of Caleb and Sophia, etc.

uh ... for Witnessing on beautiful Pacific Islands, of course ....

 

 

Chinook Helicopter.jpg

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35 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

My donations are always by check,

If you think they use it for their own purposes then why do you donate?  That is not logical.

It depends on what you define as own purposes, private purposes, public purposes, necessities, etc. 

I think you really should be more thankful to be associated with the organization and what it does for us.

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8 hours ago, Arauna said:

If you think they use it for their own purposes then why do you donate?  That is not logical.

I suppose I have the same attitude as Lazarus Long did, when he was pioneering a frontier planet, in the novel "Time Enough For Love", by Robert A. Heinlein.

He was a shopkeeper, who backed the paper currency he printed up for the community, with grain, instead of gold, and the system worked perfectly.

He had an employee he considered to be honest, because he stole from the company a straight 15%, and no more, and Lazarus ran the bank, and his employee ran the store.

I thought that was a VERY realistic viewpoint.

.... same thing.

When the GB starts riding around in Lear Jets, and Chinook Helicopters, I may revise my opinion.

 

dt900607.gif

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Well here in the UK the JW Org are selling houses for over one million pounds each in London, and I didn't even look at how much the commercial properties were. So they are into big business it seems, whilst Jesus said He was no part of this world.  I'd love to know exactly who lives in those one million pound houses before they are sold, and is it JW volunteers that refurbish the houses. 

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On 12/13/2019 at 8:52 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

 

correction 2. Kings 2:9

@Witness , I read material in link. I like wording in there speaking about knowledge in mind and love in heart. But, of course, when this two working in harmony, results (fruits) are better.

Gal 5:22,23

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4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

those one million pound houses before

My daughter bought a small home in UK in a safe area. One bathroom, 3 bedrooms - and it costs over over half million pounds.   So a 1 million pound house (especially in London must be the size of a dingy) and  is definitely not the epitome of luxury -  which impression you are trying to create.

To sell a house that people have been using is good. They can use this money to assist brothers in the rest of the world. I guess they are selling because it is no longer needed..... but if they kept it you would also complain.  One cannot ever please some people.....

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7 hours ago, Arauna said:

I guess they are selling because it is no longer needed.....

Is there any similarity or parable with this?

 

Jesus told his disciples: “There was a rich man whose manager was accused of wasting his possessions. So he called him in and asked him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your management, because you cannot be manager any longer.’

“The manager said to himself, ‘What shall I do now? My master is taking away my job. I’m not strong enough to dig, and I’m ashamed to beg— I know what I’ll do so that, when I lose my job here, people will welcome me into their houses.’

The master commended the dishonest manager for his shrewdness. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than the sons of light.

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

They can use this money to assist brothers

 I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

Perhaps is about various Bible scholars who like to find deeper (prophetically) meaning of almost every Scripture?

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7 hours ago, Arauna said:

So a 1 million pound house (especially in London must be the size of a dingy) and  is definitely not the epitome of luxury -  which impression you are trying to create

This is relatively true. Relativism is based on perception. It depends in what part of world you live, and how much income you have. Generally, i believe how most JW's do not belong to people who have more (surplus money) than they need for some "normal" life. Of course, we all can do some changes to live more modest life than we do now. But it is not good to be "clever" in advising how some other people should live in their circumstances, and not for yourself.

And this is also good advice for WT Society. To not give lessons about modesty when they using expensive building projects and other advanced technology for few so simple request Jesus put on people: Love God, Love people and give testimony about your Faith and Hope. 

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14 hours ago, Arauna said:

My daughter bought a small home in UK in a safe area. One bathroom, 3 bedrooms - and it costs over over half million pounds.   So a 1 million pound house (especially in London must be the size of a dingy) and  is definitely not the epitome of luxury -  which impression you are trying to create.

To sell a house that people have been using is good. They can use this money to assist brothers in the rest of the world. I guess they are selling because it is no longer needed..... but if they kept it you would also complain.  One cannot ever please some people.....

They are not selling ONE house, they are running a Property business 

    Hello guest!

IBSA London Properties is part of IBSA (International Bible Students Association) a registered charity acting on behalf of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Britain and Ireland. For more information about Jehovah’s Witnesses please follow 

    Hello guest!

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6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The master commended the dishonest manager for his shrewdness. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than the sons of light.

Are JW people, who are involved in making money with buy and sale business  inside WT Society, those "sons of this world" :)) because of their wisdom how to handle and make arrangements with "wicked generation of darkness" ?

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@Srecko Sostar I don't know, but it made me laugh anyway. 

If some of the 'brothers' are deeply involved in the property business, and other brothers are deeply involved in the legal / lawyer business (court cases), then it seems the JW Org becomes more worldly every day. 

I cannot believe this is what God or Jesus Christ wants from 'chosen ones'. 

 

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19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Relativism

Nothing is beyond your extreme criticism lol.  Go buy yourself a little patch in London or in any other capital city like New York and see what it costs you.  

If they needed a space for someone or a worker, or even for guests or whatever, they would have bought it because it was needed at the time and is now no longer needed.

 

13 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Org becomes more worldly every day. 

Says the exceedingly worldly guy...... 

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

who are involved in making money

If they sell the property to help brothers they are wicked and if they buy it to help brothers they are wicked....... do you sound reasonable to yourselves?   Thanks to Jehovah you are not the final judges because you will put all JWs in Auschwitz......just for being JWs..... ah, you may still help the world to do that in future ..... who knows? 

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Does anyone remember about 4 years ago when someone came on this forum (jw-archive.org at the time) and said they had just been through real estate training for the Society, because the Society, they said, was going to be one of the biggest buyers and sellers of real estate? I got the impression that this person was already preparing for their specific assignment with an assigned partner to scout out better places purchase KH properties somewhere in the U.S. That person gave the impression that this was about to kick off all around the United States, perhaps even further abroad.

That was many months before the Society announced their cash flow problems, and long before we started hearing about the sales of so many KHs and even a couple of AHs. 

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

If they needed a space for someone or a worker, or even for guests or whatever, they would have bought it because it was needed at the time and is now no longer needed.

This is no doubt correct. The Society did the same thing in the Brooklyn area, as sometimes they would need to bring in a brother who had his family with him. There was also a need to house certain elderly brothers and sisters in a place where they could get physical therapy, nursing visits, palliative care, etc., with some privacy and out of the way of the hustle and bustle of Bethel life.

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On 12/12/2019 at 4:12 PM, 4Jah2me said:

No i don't expect humans to be perfect or to act perfectly.

What you expect is Santa Claus

On 12/14/2019 at 3:36 AM, Arauna said:

Do you think they must remain in the Jurassic age when it comes to using technology or will it be ok by you if they venture to use the newest tech to support the brothers?...to provide services in almost 1000 languages?...more gratitude and less criticism...  ALL you see is "billions" which you try to imply are used for their own purposes.... 

This is infuriating to me. Such whiners think only of themselves.

On 12/14/2019 at 3:45 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

If you are NOT inspired of God, as the GB admits they are not ( February 2017 Watchtower), you do need all of those things you mentioned.

They “admitted” it long ago and if you didn’t think you were Perry Mason angling confession from the courtroom spectator you would see that.

From the Revelation Climax book, published in 1988:

“It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Genesis 40:8)”

Call those the words of people who think they cannot be wrong?

For the life of me, I don’t know why this is so hard. It is as though grown adults are determined to make themselves children. Since the writers plainly state up front that they could be wrong, I take everything in that spirit. I strive to get my head around whatever they are saying & and discern how they came to think as they do because I do not want to be like Diotrophes, who “receives nothing from us with respect.” But it is all tentative—it represents to me the best thinking out there. It doesn’t mean that nobody else can think. However, since detractors here have NOTHING to show for themselves other than grumbling over how they would like to see things different, I take whatever they offer with that in mind.

The GB is vigilant and they take their shepherding role seriously. They do not want to find themselves in the shoes of Lot, whose sons-in-law thought he was joking. That is why they do not say: “Here is our latest thinking. It’s probably no good, but see what you think.” No. They state what they state in recognition that “interpretations belong to God” and that they are doing their best to figure those things out.

 

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 believe this is what God or Jesus Christ wants from 'chosen one 1

Srecko Sostar reacted to this
You are trolling me but you just made another blanket statement again - painting all with the same brush....... like I said before...... the real judge is jehovah. 

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On 12/12/2019 at 4:12 PM, 4Jah2me said:

As you say Srecko, God works through His Holy Spirit. He has always done so in the past, why would He not do so now ?

Why don’t you ask him if he believes in God before you hail him as your council?

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On 12/15/2019 at 2:45 PM, 4Jah2me said:

Org becomes more worldly every day. 

Says the exceedingly worldly guy...... 

So @Arauna explain how I'm an 'exceedingly worldly guy.'  For if you knew me at all you would know how wrong that statement is. 

Actually I thought it was you that had travelled the world and done everything. Whereas I have been accused, on here, of just sitting at this computer continuously. 

Just a little note, I didn't vote in the general election, as I'm no part of this world, an don't put my trust in 'earthling man'. We also do not celebrate the upcoming pagan festival, not do we celebrate birthdays. Nor do I go to a 'pub' as I don't drink alcohol, and I don't smoke and don't 'do drugs'.  So I'm not exactly what I would call worldly. 

Oh yes and the JW Org are involved in the PROPERTY MARKET, selling multiple properties. Not just one house. 

Quote  @TrueTomHarley 

From the Revelation Climax book, published in 1988:

“It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Genesis 40:8)”

If I remember correctly that was written on a picture page and would easily have been overlooked as it was not part of a paragraph that would have been read in the study. 

It was of course a 'cop out' due to the fact that they had been so wrong on so many other occasions. 

I believe this book was studied three times so as to indoctrinate congregants, even though they were not sure it was true. :) If it wasn't so serious it would be funny, BUT it was playing with people's lives. 

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3 hours ago, JW Insider said:
11 hours ago, Arauna said:

If they needed a space for someone or a worker, or even for guests or whatever, they would have bought it because it was needed at the time and is now no longer needed.

This is no doubt correct. The Society did the same thing in the Brooklyn area, as sometimes they would need to bring in a brother who had his family with him. There was also a need to house certain elderly brothers and sisters in a place where they could get physical therapy, nursing visits, palliative care, etc., with some privacy and out of the way of the hustle and bustle of Bethel life.

Correct me if i am wrong, but as to my knowledge and experience with Betel, i understand that you need to have specific purpose to be accomodate in Betel room as simple, ordinary JW. And that is not because of your personal matters you have to do outside of theocratic activity. For example, if you travel from Osijek to Zagreb for some private stuff (hospital, looking for new job,....etc) you can't count that Betel in Zagreb will give you room to stay one or more nights for sleeping. 

For example: When i was invited with other bro/sis, who had roles in bible drama for convention, for recording in the studio (and that was as i can recall my last visit before they closed Austria branch) only those involved in drama was Bethel's guests . Exceptions was made only for husbands or wives of individual actor. So, if you were single you can't expect that your friend will be allowed to be accomodate in Betel room with you.

In time when Zagreb Bethel was made preparation for first opening i volunteered some 3 months in gardening. They officially gave me a room, but only in theory. I went back to my home for sleeping after working hours.

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 On 12/12/2019 at 9:12 PM, 4Jah2me said:

No i don't expect humans to be perfect or to act perfectly.

Quote @TrueTomHarley  reply " What you expect is Santa Claus "

How can anyone take this man seriously. No wonder he writes book for a living :) He's a story teller. 

 

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I have been thinking about writing a novel about a Jehovah's Witness that goes back in time, and successfully assassinates Adolf Hitler, and how the world progresses from that point onward.

It will have a LOT of known facts, and a LOT of stuff completely made up from my imagination. 

I think books like this are called "Docu-Novels"

In order to not be intellectually dishonest, I would have to market it as a "docu-novel", and then I would not have to have a statement inside stating that

40 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

“It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Genesis 40:8)”

.... but, knowing how people ARE .... it might be a good idea to put a statement like this on the inside title page .....

...in LARGE type.

.... uh .... in order to not be intellectually dishonest,

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

and that was as i can recall my last visit before they closed Austria branch

When I traveled in Europe for a string of International Conventions with a member of the GB, I stayed in the branches in France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Switzerland, Austria, and Germany. It was not something these branches normally did for a low-level traveling Bethelite like me, because they did not all keep extra housing for such purposes, but had to reuse rooms of brothers who were either on vacation themselves, or who had been placed for a few days to stay with local brothers.

The only reason it was done was because of who I was traveling with. But our itineraries got out of sync when I had to stay nearly an extra week in Greece for a project. This meant that I was in Austria and Switzerland taking up a room without a good reason, and I was looked at suspiciously and felt very unwelcome. They especially frowned on my interest in looking at their old Bibles that had been donated to the Swiss branch and watched me in their Bethel library. There was so much natural beauty all around, but these were two branches in which I felt almost nothing but coldness, as if I were an unwanted intruder. When I met up with the GB member again, everything was loving and back to normal.

(I think Switzerland had to give up their old Bibles and a page of their Gutenberg Bible over to Warwick by now. I don't recall if Austria had anything as valuable.)

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

have been thinking about writing a novel about a Jehovah's Witness that goes back in time, and successfully assassinates Adolf Hitler, and how the world progresses from that point onward.

I gather that the left would not be comparing Trump to Hitler, then, would they? Or will there even be a left in this new work of yours?

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I have been thinking about writing a novel about a Jehovah's Witness that goes back in time, and successfully assassinates Adolf Hitler

Might make for interesting reading. I read through 11/22/63 by SK. The book is well-written but I don't like the typical genre at all because the supernatural parts are always so contrived and it's hard to suspend disbelief. In this case, for example, history can be changed by a time traveler but history doesn't WANT to be changed, and therefore the history itself conspires against the protagonist as his nemesis. A historical novel with a lot of imagination given to "POV" characters is much easier for me to accept, or even or a sci-fi novel when the future can contain new versions of "history" that repeat the old themes. I just have a lot of trouble with "time travel," I guess. It's so rarely done in a very convincing manner.

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4 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Switzerland

I had been in Thun, Switzerland Betel too. I think that one very old couple was members at that time. Wife served with some simple task, almost meaningless, packing some postcards for visitors. Her husband get very ill, stroke or something and been free from work, but wife must contribute to be able to stay. They invite us for a tea. 

Austria Betel showed "normal german" hospitality. And they had part of basement full with various beer packages for drink to buy....when you emptying few welcome beer bottles in room refrigerator. :)))  I guess Bethel workers have every day routine and many of them have no extra time (will, emotions, strength, or "love" if you want) to welcome unknown strangers. That depends on many individual factors, i guess, but generally Bethel is working camp.

Rome Bethel was prepared for welcoming all delegates who were on international convention tour in 2004 (?) Convention was in Milano, Monza racing stadium. And Croatian BUS delegates sleeping in homes of brothers in various congregations around. We had been at one young couple home. Wife of brother was very serious and strict and not showed warmth (despite she was Italian, strange!! :))) but all others in congregation was very happy and we had good time with them.

You had very interesting and educational experience, for sure. Thanks for sharing :))   

 

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On 12/14/2019 at 3:45 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

instead of Rolex

JTR I just strictly forbid you to use Rolex watches as an example of how the GB spend contributed money. I thought we had already discussed this at length. Just kidding, of course I can't forbid you to do anything, or I can, but you are under no obligation to obey. However, it does insult your intelligence (and I know you are intelligent) because it looks like you are not able to think of half a dozen other variables which do NOT involve using contributed money. Not only that, but you have no idea under what circumstances Br. Morris wore that watch, (perhaps the person who gave it to him would be very hurt if he didn't wear it at least once, perhaps it's a family "heirloom"). But I do admit, it was not the most prudent thing for him to do, to wear an obviously expensive watch (even if fake), considering there are so many poor brothers and sisters. I don't think I've seen him wear it again...

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

They especially frowned on my interest in looking at their old Bibles that had been donated to the Swiss branch and watched me in their Bethel library.

rabbit mouse GIF

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27 minutes ago, Anna said:

(perhaps the person who gave it to him would be very hurt if he didn't wear it at least once, perhaps it's a family "heirloom").....I don't think I've seen him wear it again...

It made me so mad that I told him to return it to me. Grandpa was turning over in his grave and I got tired of wearing a sundial.

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I have been thinking about writing a novel about a Jehovah's Witness that goes back in time, and successfully assassinates Adolf Hitler, and how the world progresses from that point onward.

Write it, but whatever you do, don’t hawk it here on the Librarian’s website. It is so shameless when people do that!

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16 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I thought it was you that had travelled the world

Yea, I go where my husband goes.  But I keep active preaching.  I do not promote myself in any way....... keep focussed on the kingdom.

I could have promoted myself - but I did not.   I appreciate the truth and its aim to try to stick to Jehovahs high moral standards...... and as jehovah said we must have godly  justice, mercy and love.  Display these qualities as prescribed by Jah.

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      JW's will say how they will get it (eternal life), after the end of 1000th year Kingdom. But Jesus said how eternal life IS knowing Them. When?.... when you/they will know Them? In 1 century, after every Jesus' lessons and speech? Or after teaching that people received by Apostles who had been "inspired"? Or after people have been educated by Russell' publications, and get to know Them in such way? Or through preaching methods incorporated by JW organization?  
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      During that party, everyone got into a pool in the backyard… including Simental. And he proceeded to molest J.W. and the sisters. He did it again later that night. The sisters eventually told their parents, who reported Simental to local Witness elders (which is what they’re taught to do in these situations).
      Simental confessed to some of the allegations, and the elders basically gave him a faith-based slap on the wrist: a reprimand that had no meaning outside church circles.
      Things changed only when the sisters’ school principal learned about what happened and, as required by law, reported the abuse to local law enforcement. Police soon contacted J.W.’s family asking for their story, but after consulting with the Witnesses, her father chose not to speak with the cops.
      It was a year later when J.W., then 10 years old, told her parents what Simental did to her in the pool. It infuriated them, and they told the Witness elders that they wanted a restraining order against him. The elders told him not to do that since it would require informing the police about what Simental did — and they preferred to keep his actions private.
      Here’s the bigger problem: There’s reason to believe the Witnesses were aware that Simental was a child molester… and they kept it from the families. Simental was allowed to be a religious leader — earning respect from the community — even though higher-ups in the religion knew that he shouldn’t be around children.
      It raised an important question: How much blame did the Witnesses deserve for what happened at that pool party?
      J.W.’s family eventually filed a criminal lawsuit against Simental and a separate civil suit against the Watchtower Society (the Witnesses’ governing organization). They basically said the Witnesses should have informed congregation members about Simental and stopped him from being around children. They never should have allowed him to be a religious leader.
      The Watchtower Society’s argument? They didn’t know Simental was a child molester, and the pool party occurred after he was no longer a religious leader, and the slumber party wasn’t a church-sponsored event, so leave them out of this.
      (To be clear, I’m simplifying the details of this case and the legal journey quite a bit.)
      When this case went to trial in California, J.W.’s family demanded that the Watchtower Society produce documents relating to what they knew about child molesters within the faith. The Witnesses had already admitted to keeping lists of problematic leaders along with their specific “crimes” — similar to the Catholic Church. If Simental was on that list — from 1997, nearly a decade before the pool incident — it would essentially be a smoking gun showing the Witnesses knew he was a threat to kids but did nothing about it.
      But the Witnesses refused to hand over that material. They treated it like Catholics treat confession: It’s private information, they argued, and to reveal what was said internally would violate their religious beliefs.
      J.W.’s family didn’t buy that argument. The information they wanted wasn’t bound by clergy-penitent confessional privilege. It’s not like Simental told the elders what he had done in order to confess his sins. He was caught. The Witnesses were merely shielding him from legal punishment.
      In the criminal trial, Witnesses elders were forced to admit their practices and that the private discussions they had about abusive clergy members were not considered confidential under the law.
      Mark O’Donnell, writing at JWSurvey, Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. :
       
        Simental’s appeal got him nowhere. He’s in prison today. But there were still so many questions about what responsibility the Witnesses had in this whole matter.  
      J.W.’s family wanted to know why Simental, a known pedophile, was promoted within the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Why did they allow him to be around children? Why didn’t they warn families? Why did they just give him a slap on the wrist?
      In 2013, the civil trial began against the Watchtower Society, but again, the Witnesses didn’t want to provide necessary documents. They eventually lost the case. In 2015, the Riverside Superior Court of California awarded J.W. a judgment of $4,016,152.39. This past December, the Fourth District Court of Appeal in California Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .
      You get the idea: The Witnesses refused to hand over internal data, presumably because it would’ve been like handing over a loaded gun. So the courts had no choice but to assume the plaintiff was telling the truth and the Watchtower Society was negligent in their handling of Simental.
      Earlier this year, in a Hail Mary attempt to reverse their punishment, the Watchtower Society Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . They wanted the justices to say that documents relating to child abuse within a religious group can be kept confidential.
      Here’s how the Witnesses’ attorney introduced his case to the justices. (You don’t need a law degree to see how he just completely dismissed the molestation.)
      Watchtower attorney Paul Polidoro said the Supreme Court needed to consider whether California violated the Constitution when it held the Jehovah’s Witnesses responsible for what Simental did “during non-church activity,” forced them to hand over internal communications, and punished them for protecting everyone’s “privacy rights.”
      J.W.’s attorney Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. asking the Court to flat-out reject this case.
      Indeed, that’s what the Court decided. When the first set of orders in the new term was released yesterday, there was this case among many many others, in the list of those which would not get heard this term.
       
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  
      It was the right move. There’s nothing further to debate here. Finally, this case has been put to rest.
      (Image via Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Large portions of this article were published earlier)
         
    • By Srecko Sostar
      The WT Society interprets that JW elders have the right not to disclose secrets to the police and to other government agencies regarding child abuse when members of the organization give them information, whether they are victims or perpetrators.
      In this appeal, WT lawyers defend this right by invoking the Catholic Church and their clergy. In fact, although the WT Society and JWorg claim to have no priestly class as the Catholic Church, they do want the same privileges for their elders, before the bodies of the law, as Catholic priests do.
      What is the doctrine in the Catholic Church regarding "confession"? What is the doctrine of the WT and JW Organization regarding "confession"?
      The Catholic Church allows their priests to listen to the voluntary confessions of their believers and to give them comfort and forgiveness in the name of God as part of Christian mercy. Priests must never reveal to anyone the confession secrets they have heard from believers.
      The WT JW organization teaching that the believers of their religion should also confess their sins to their "priests", who are the elders. Although in the formal every day language, words "confession of sin" are viewed in different way, different picture than it is in Catholic church, it can be said that it is formally the similar idea as in the Catholic Church. Awareness of one's sin may come to elders in two ways: as a voluntary confession of one's sins before one or more elders or when a member of the Assembly declared the sin of another member of the organization.
      There are two outcomes for a JW believer after the elders find out about a sin. He will either be allowed to remain as full member of the assembly, or be expelled/dfd from the organization.
      What does that tell us? Although the WT JW organization claims that it is incorrect and unbiblical when a Catholic priest forgives sins to a Catholic believer, we are free to observe that in their treating, JW elders towards their member, they act in the same way as a Catholic priest. By allowing JW sinner to remain to be a member of the congregation, they, as the Judges of the JW Church, forgave him. They forgave him on their's behalf, on behalf of the injured party, and on behalf of the assembly. In the event that they had excluded sinners, it would mean that no one had forgiven him. This kind of treatment denies the allegations regarding the Catholic Church about who have right to "forgive sins".
      Certain Bible passages teaching assembly members to be prepared to forgive the sins of other members. This actually means that there is a basis on which one sinner can forgive sins of a another sinner. If so, then it means that some sin can be forgiven, not just by the directly injured party, but by any other member of the congregation. Every member can, if he wants and wish, but he is not forced if he does not want to.
      But in the Catholic Church, a believer who has the burden of sin and wants to confess it in his church, goes to only one priest, not two or three, and confesses his sin only to him. In this case, sin is confessed to only one person. And that forms the basis for the "secret" in the Catholic Church. Because the secret is revealed to only one person.
      In the JW congregation, "confession of sin" gets another level of "secrecy." The secret does not remain verbally spoken between two people, but the "secret" extends to 3 or 4 people, maybe more. However, it is very important to note that the "confession" is also documented in writing. According to what i know, a Catholic priest does not making (mandatory) written record for the sins of his believers. JW elders, by contrast, must make a "confidential file" kept in the archives and / or destroyed if it would be said so by the authority of the higher hierarchy body.
       
      It is unacceptable that the WT JW organization invokes the Catholic Church and their "penitent privilege", or "confessional secrets" between believers and chaplains (soul carrier, shepherd), as the basis by which it operates within its own organization and regulates the spiritual life of believers in the JW Church.
      The "confessional secret" in the Catholic Church  and "confession of sin" before the elders in the JW assembly are two things.
       
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