THE REIGNING 144,000

[Shiwiii]

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

You read into it motives which are not there.

you can believe that if you wish, but I have seen it first hand! 

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

If they did not help the brothers - then people like you would say they are wicked and do not have gods spirit and when they do appoint a committee to help - then they are controlling and watching brothers

what kind of help are you referring to? please explain this "help"

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

what kind of help are you referring to? please explain this "help"

They go to doctors and hospitals to explain our blood stance.   They visit brothers in hospital awhen they are seriously ill.  They sit with you and support you during serious surgeries when you request assistance. 

I experienced this help during the time my daughter had her cancer surgery.   I was not coerced by any one on my stance regarding blood.   So the assumption above that they act as watchdogs is ludicrous...... it is assigning bad motives where there are none.

[Shiwiii]

20 hours ago, Arauna said:

They go to doctors and hospitals to explain our blood stance. 

Why cant the regular RnF do that for themselves?  is it perhaps because some wouldn't tell anyone? 

 

20 hours ago, Arauna said:

 They visit brothers in hospital awhen they are seriously ill.  They sit with you and support you during serious surgeries when you request assistance. 

commendable. 

 

20 hours ago, Arauna said:

 So the assumption above that they act as watchdogs is ludicrous...... it is assigning bad motives where there are none.

As I have said before, I've seen it FIRST HAND. So maybe not in your experience because they already got you to conform, but that doesn't make it so for others. 

[Witness]

On 12/17/2019 at 11:42 AM, Arauna said:

Bingo!  Not to Angel's or people with heavenly bodies...... to those made for earth!

 

Jesus is not only called the Son of God, but the Son of Man. 

Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?” So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”  John 22:70

In heaven, he is referred to as the Son of Man:

 “Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.”  Rev 14:14

If the Son of Man is Jesus in his fleshly body when on earth, ( John 1:14) why isn’t he called the Son of God only, when in heaven?

He is the first of the new creation, with both human and spiritual qualities.  1 Cor 15:49

God has other “sons” in the image of Christ.

“Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. ² Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”  1 John 3:1,2

 

[Arauna]

On 12/19/2019 at 1:11 AM, Shiwiii said:

have said before, I've seen it FIRST HAND. So

When my daughter had her cancer operation I had a couple sit with me.  I explained my stance to the doctor myself.  I had no pressure. BUT  this emotion is in the eye of the beholder.... it says a lot about you. 

[Shiwiii]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

When my daughter had her cancer operation I had a couple sit with me.  I explained my stance to the doctor myself.  I had no pressure. BUT  this emotion is in the eye of the beholder.... it says a lot about you. 

I sure hope it gives you the exact impression of my experience. I think it does, or you wouldn't be defending them by means of YOUR experience to try and downplay what I have had happen. 

 

Surgery is never easy and on your child it is even less so. So the similarities between our experiences seem to end there. 

[Arauna]

42 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

downplay what I have had happen. 

So explain your personal experience in this matter which contradicts mine.

[Witness]

On 12/17/2019 at 9:22 AM, Arauna said:

There is the most holy where the high priest (Jesus) went in;  and the Holy place where only  the underpriests served.....they also served in the priestly courtyard.

I said to you in my previous answer that you ignore the other parts of the temple.......... 

Underpriests  went into the....court of priests with the altar...... so where did the ordinary folk go?  The inner "courtyard of Israel" for the Hebrew men   - where they participated and watched the priests ( women originally were allowed in this courtyard as well but were later separated in the court of women (outer court).  Women were required to hear scriptures read.

And later the most outer court for the gentiles/proselites was added by Herod.  This is where Jesus taught and where the cleansing of the temple took place - the area where they were selling animals. 

This area symbolises the earthly sheep who also serve day and night in this temple.....as the sun never sets on our prayers and service...

 

  1 Chron 23:13,14:

“The sons of Amram; Aaron and Moses: and Aaron was separated, that he should sanctify the most holy things, he and his sons for ever (“everlasting”), to burn incense before (“in the presence of”) the LORD, to minister unto him, and to bless in his name for ever.” 

"So you shall appoint Aaron and his sons that they may keep their priesthood, but the layman who comes near shall be put to death." Num 3:10

 

“And you yourselves, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.  But you are a chosen race,^[f] a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s possession, so that you may proclaim the virtues of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light”  1 Pet 2:5,9

Rev 7:9, 13-15:

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before (“in the presence of”) the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore are they before (“in the presence of”)  the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

 

In the organization, the anointed priesthood has been expelled from their duties of offering “incense”, or sacrifices of praise to God, presently, and obviously through the spurious teaching of who comprise the "great multitude" that serve God "in the presence of" His throne in heaven.   Heb 13:15; 1 Pet 2:5  Counterfeit priests have filled God’s Temple with abominable teachings and sacrificial offerings to an idol. Ezek 44:6-9; 13:8,10; Rev 13:1,4-7, 15, 17,18

 

 

[Arauna]

3 hours ago, Witness said:

before

Before the throne is on earth...... and you can offer incense (prayers) anywhere you are. You need not do it in front of brothers.

It is very telling that you do not talk about the courtyard  of the temple where the ordinary folk could pray, listen to the reading of the law and watch procedures in the temple - who do they represent in the greater fulfillment?

Seeing your repetition of the same old , same old condemnation tells me you are very stubborn and you are not open to anything but your own opinion - which is not even close to the truth.

 

[Witness]

3 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Before the throne is on earth...... and you can offer incense (prayers) anywhere you are. You need not do it in front of brothers.

It is very telling that you do not talk about the courtyard  of the temple where the ordinary folk could pray, listen to the reading of the law and watch procedures in the temple - who do they represent in the greater fulfillment?

Seeing your repetition of the same old , same old condemnation tells me you are very stubborn and you are not open to anything but your own opinion - which is not even close to the truth.

 

I think I have given you enough scriptures, to show me you reject God's word and accept men's doctrine based on...what?

[Arauna]

Just now, Witness said:

word and accept men's doctrine based on...what?

I do not just look at the scriptures you quoted but also  the ones referring to the other parts of the spiritual temple for one.   Why do you not explain the courtyard of the temple but only the areas the priests went into?  This area also has a greater fulfillment ...... 

You accuse me of listening to a bunch of old men - I happen to agree with them and disagree with you because you are not honest...... you only give answers to the parts that suits you. .... and leave out some inconvenient facts. 

As I have said before - it is what deceivers do NOT tell you that is important.  They conveniently have amnesia regarding most relevant facts. 

 

[Witness]

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

Why do you not explain the courtyard of the temple but only the areas the priests went into?  This area also has a greater fulfillment ...... 

 

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

and you can offer incense (prayers) anywhere you are. You need not do it in front of brothers.

Yes, we are expected to offer prayers to God, but 1 Chron 23:13,14 has to do with sacrifices offered on behalf of the people, by the priests.  The early priesthood is from the tribe of Levi.  From that tribe, Aaron’s descendants were chosen by God to serve as priests in the temple… 

“The sons of Amram; Aaron and Moses: and Aaron was separated, that he should sanctify the most holy things, he and his sons for ever (“everlasting”), to burn incense before (“in the presence of”) the LORD, to minister unto him, and to bless in his name for ever.” 1 Chron 23:13,14

However, the Levites other than the priests, were also given specific tasks pertaining to the temple and support for the priesthood  – 1 Chron 23:28-32

What happened when Korah a Levite, said to Moses and Aaron…

 “You take too much upon yourselves!  All of the community is holy, every one of them, and Yahweh is in their midst, so why do you raise yourselves over the assembly of Yahweh?”

 When Moses heard this, he fell on his face. ⁵ And he said to Korah and to his entire company, saying, “Tomorrow morning Yahweh will make known who is his and who is holy, and he will bring him near to him, whomever he chooses he will bring near to him. ⁶ Do this: take for yourselves censers, Korah and all of your company;^[f] 7 tomorrow put fire in them and place incense on them beforeYahweh; the man whom Yahweh chooses will be the holy one. You take too much upon yourselves, sons of Levi!”  Numbers chapter 16

For their assumption that anyone could serve God in His temple as a priest, Korah and his men lost their lives. 

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

Before the throne is on earth.

Therefore are they before (“in the presence of”)  the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. Rev 7:15

It takes place in God's Temple.  The scriptures explain this holy priesthood IS the Temple, that they are “living stones” of God’s Temple, “pillars” of this Temple, the dwelling of God’s Spirit…AND…the Bride of Christ that “comes down from heaven” to be among mankind. 

1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:19-22; Rev 3:12; 21:2

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

You accuse me of listening to a bunch of old men -

I've never called them a "bunch of old men" - false messiahs, false prophets, yes.  Matt 24:24; Rev 13:11

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

As I have said before - it is what deceivers do NOT tell you that is important.  They conveniently have amnesia regarding most relevant facts. 

That's very true.  In the last days, there is an organization (Beast from the Sea), "false prophet" (Beast from the Earth) and the "dragon" who deceive  the "kings of the earth" (Jesus' "kings", Rev 1:5) with demonic expressions.  Rev 13:1,2,11; 16:13,14; Matt 24:15   

The GB have most conveniently misled the anointed about their duties as priests.  They have convinced them that the elders must "represent them" as priests, fully ignoring the lesson of Korah.