FAITH. IN WHOM OR WHAT and When ?

[TrueTomHarley]

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

let alone tell others that they are stupid for serving Jehovah by insinuating that we serve an organization.  

Yes. It is so ridiculous. The purpose of organization is to magnify an activity. The purpose of opposition to organization is to defeat that activity. There are some nuances, back eddies, and addendums—anything in which humans are involved will have blemishes—but in general the above statement says it all.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote @TrueTomHarley  " The purpose of organization is to magnify an activity. "

That is so funny. The Bible Students and JW Org 'magnified their activity' by telling lies and by guessing at dates and getting it all wrong. Wow that was progress wasn't it. 

[Witness]

13 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I admit to not having half the 'worldly' knowledge that you have, but I don't think i need all that knowledge, just to know that the world belongs to the devil and it is a wicked place. 

Unfortunately the religion you are part of has misused it's own knowledge to make false statements in the past.

You are right. 

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  1 Cor 2:14-14

  For it is written:

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and I will set aside the understanding of the experts.

²⁰ Where is the philosopher? Where is the scholar? Where is the debater of this age? Hasn’t God made the world’s wisdom foolish? ²¹ For since, in God’s wisdom, the world did not know God through wisdom, God was pleased to save those who believe through the foolishness of the message preached. For the Jews ask for signs and the Greeks seek wisdom, ²³ but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Gentiles. ²⁴ Yet to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is God’s power and God’s wisdom, ²⁵ because God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God’s weakness is stronger than human strength. 1 Cor 1:19-25

The Lord said:

Because these people approach Me with their mouths
to honor Me with lip-service —
yet their hearts are far from Me,
and their worship consists of man-made rules
learned by rote—
 therefore I will again confound these people
with wonder after wonder.
The wisdom of their wise men will vanish,
and the understanding of the perceptive will be hidden.

¹⁵ Woe to those who go to great lengths
to hide their plans from the Lord.
They do their works in darkness,
and say, “Who sees us? Who knows us?”
You have turned things around,
as if the potter were the same as the clay.
How can what is made say about its maker,
“He didn’t make me”?
How can what is formed
say about the one who formed it,
“He doesn’t understand what he’s doing”?  Isa 29:13-16

22 hours ago, Arauna said:

I watch world events closely  and can confirm MORE than the JW.org  writes about. 

Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and testing Him asked that He would show them a sign from heaven. He answered them: “When evening comes you say, ‘It will be good weather because the sky is red.’ ³ And in the morning, ‘Today will be stormy because the sky is red and threatening.’ You know how to read the appearance of the sky, but you can’t read the signs of the times. Matt 16:1-3

 

 

[Witness]

On 12/28/2019 at 5:37 PM, Witness said:

1 Cor 2:14-14

1 Cor 2:12-14

[Kosonen]

Hi

@4Jah2me 

You are really into something. I have seen scriptures that can been undertood in a way that support your conclusions. Especially that the current WT organization will not be in charge the final approximately 3 and half years. Instead it will be other anointed who have now no say that will be the source of spiritual food.

[TrueTomHarley]

19 minutes ago, Kosonen said:

Especially that the current WT organization will not be in charge the final approximately 3 and half years.

Witness has seized on that part and is eagerly anticipating the day.

[Arauna]

On 12/29/2019 at 5:37 AM, Witness said:

not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God,

Jesus was smart - he knew exactly what the pharisees were going to do.  To understand what is going on around you is not the spirit of the world. 

To distinguish morally that individuals are against the truth and promoting hate towards the people of Jehovah is discernment.

To quote tons of scriptures and applying them in illogical ways does not make one a true disciple of Jehovah...... it is the actions which count.  I do recognise that your   words on this forum are  a repetition of the same old hate towards those whom jehovah is using.  

To watch world events to see fulfillment of bible scripture is important.  This is how I know 1914 is accurate.  This is how I know how close we are to prophesied events leading to Armageddon. Even if I die tomorrow,  I can say like Simeon,  that Jehovah allowed me to understand some realities before I died.  

 

 

 

[Witness]

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

Jesus was smart - he knew exactly what the pharisees were going to do.  To understand what is going on around you is not the spirit of the world. 

I answer your comments to me, as presenting the spiritual aspect of truth to any who may be interested. 

Jesus told the Pharisees,  ^“An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and a sign will not be given it, except the sign of Jonah.” And He left them and went away.” Matt 16:

Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.” ³⁹ But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; ⁴⁰ for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matt 12:38-40 

To involve oneself in the business of the politics and religions of the world is dabbling in the spirit of the world. Satan is the originator of the “signs and false wonders” to deceive.  2 Thess 2:9  The sign Jesus gave to the Pharisees had to do with him, not the world’s business.  Obviously, even though he gave them the “sign”, they still rejected him. He fulfilled the sign and they refused to accept it, because they wanted to see more, what their eyes could physically see, just as JWs want to see more than the spiritual sign:

At that time two robbers were crucified with Him, one on the right and one on the left. ³⁹ And those passing by were hurling abuse at Him, wagging their heads ⁴⁰ and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, come down from the cross/(stake).” ⁴¹ In the same way the chief priests also, along with the scribes and elders, were mocking Him and saying, ⁴² “He saved others; He cannot save Himself. He is the King of Israel; let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe in Him. ⁴³ He trusts in God; let God rescue Him now, if He delights in Him; for He said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” ⁴⁴ The robbers who had been crucified with Him were also insulting Him with the same words.  Matt 27:38-44

…just as Satan wanted Jesus to do:

Matt 4:6 – “and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, ‘He will command His angels concerning You’; and ‘On their hands they will bear You up, So that You will not strike Your foot against a stone.’”

 

During the last days, the “sign” has to do with the anointed of the Body of Christ, under the New Covenant.  The Kingdom will not arrive until the Temple built on Christ is completed, with the correct number of faithful and refined “living stones” sealed into it. Zech, chapter 4.   God will then say at the right time , “it is enough”, “and judgment is made in favor of the saints to possess the kingdom.” (Dan 7:21,22,13,14; Matt 24:30)   Does that happen in Satan’s world, or in the “heavens”?  The purging, cleansing of the “heavens and earth” by fire, involves the “kings of the earth” – the anointed of Christ.  (1 Cor 3:12-15; 2 Pet 3:7; Jer 23:29; Rev 1:5)  The war against “nations and kingdoms” (Matt 24:6-8) is a war of truth against lies spoken by Christ’s “kings of the earth” – between those who become unfaithful, and those who are faithful to their Head.   Jesus faced a “son of perdition” who delivered him up to be killed for speaking truth; the anointed also face a “man of lawlessness/son of perdition” who, under the direction of unfaithful anointed, have them spiritually “killed” for representing Christ and not an organization of men.  This is happening now.  (Matt 24:15,16; Luke 21:12; John 16:2; Matt 25:40,45,46; (Acts 9:5) 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2;  1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 13:1,2,6,7; 11:1-3,7)

 Will they stand up for Christ or continue allowing  a wicked slave feed them lies?  (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 16:13,14)

 Each anointed is tested by Satan, they are presented lies, and either refined by truth in Christ or they continue to follow “false prophets” who “deceive the elect”.  (Matt 24:24; Rev 2:20; Rev 13:11,12)  They are accused and slandered by Satan and those he uses against them for rejecting falsehoods.   If Jesus had become unfaithful to God and the testimony he was to give, he wouldn’t have been killed.  He would have been accepted by the Pharisees.  Matt 16:25

The signs of the end are spiritual signs that play out in the organization and the anointed, not among the nations of the world.   JWs forget that the Kingdom won’t arrive without God’s right number of anointed being found with “no lie in their mouth”, “pure and blameless” with Christ Jesus as their Head, not listening to men who have a history of false doctrine.  (Rev 14:4,5; Phil 2:15; Jude 1:12,13) Perhaps your definition of truth is WT’s definition, but it isn’t God’s definition.  JWs seem to disregard the parable of the ten virgins. (Matt 25)  They forget that the anointed under the New Covenant “woman” WILL be tested by Satan. (Luke 22:31; Rev 12:1-4)  All of these things are signs that should have great meaning for us if we desire to live in the Kingdom: not whether two nations are at war, or the Pope has made some peace pact with other religions.  The coming of the Kingdom is based on the faithfulness of the anointed in Christ.   

Maybe @Srecko Sostar can find the quote on truth for me, that he posted a while back, on truth’s simplicity.  What JWs believe, is a twisted, complicated mess that leads one questioning, wondering what is truth and what is a lie – what was truth yesterday, what it will be tomorrow, or a year from now. 

 

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

To quote tons of scriptures and applying them in illogical ways does not make one a true disciple of Jehovah...... it is the actions which count.  

God's word is life; Jesus' teachings are life.  If you were to read them and saw an error, since I am not always accurate in typing them down, I would fix the error.  The opinion of someone is just an opinion, unless it is backed by God's word completely. (Rom 3:4)

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

I do recognise that your   words on this forum are  a repetition of the same old hate towards those whom jehovah is using.  

Well, we are on two different planes; yours is the continual blow-by-blow physical enactment of what’s going on in Satan’s world; mine is the spiritual, since Jesus stated his kingdom is “not of this world”.  John 18:36  If we are both “OCD”, what of it?  What is important is truth, no matter how much it is repeated. 

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

To watch world events to see fulfillment of bible scripture is important.  This is how I know 1914 is accurate.  This is how I know how close we are to prophesied events leading to Armageddon. Even if I die tomorrow,  I can say like Simeon,  that Jehovah allowed me to understand some realities before I died.  

 

• And after the birth of God’s Kingdom in 1914, it was Satan who began “to wage war” with the remnant of anointed ones. (Rev. 12:17) W 15/5/15 pp. 14-18
• Those events from 1914 onward were, as Jesus put it, “a beginning of pangs of distress.” (Matthew 24:8)  pr section 7 pp. 25-28

Wt’s Greek Kingdom Interlinear:  “Will rise up nation upon nation and kingdom against kingdom and will be famines and [earth] quakes down on places; all but these (things) beginning of pangs of birth”  Matt 24:8

1914?  You have had children.  Since when do birth pangs/pains follow birth?  And why would the Watchtower not translate their Bible as their Interlinear reads, as “beginning of pangs of BIRTH” if not to support their lie about 1914?

 

 But when He was alone, those around Him with the twelve asked Him about the parable. ¹¹ And He said to them, “To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, ¹² so that

‘Seeing they may see and not perceive,
And hearing they may hear and not understand;
Lest they should turn,
And their sins be forgiven them.’ ”  Mark 4:10-12

 

 Pearl Doxsey - "Labor Pains" 4womaninthewilderness

[Kosonen]

@Arauna James 5:7 Be patient then, brothers, until the presence of the Lord.

This statement, "until the presence of the Lord" indicates that Christ's presence will be a short time period. Why else does James tell us to be patient until the presence of the Lord.

From the Bible it is clear that in fact Christ's presence begins when the sign of the son of man will be seen on the sky. Then we will know he is present in its real sense. 

Otherwise it could likewise be said that Jesus has always been present because he said in Matthew 28:20 "And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

 

 

 

 

@4Jah2me 

Here is a scripture that predict that the WT organization will cease to funtion in the begining of the final years leading up to Armageddon.

Daniel12:7 “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end,+ all these things will come to their finish.”

This scripture is tied to Daniel 11:31 "And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature. “And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation."

The true meaning of these scriptures is about a halting of WT organization by the force of authorities. That has never before happened. WT has been printed without disruption since its beginning. 

The WT organization does not understand Daniel 11 nor 12 and have been unable to give a true explanation to these prophecies. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

• @Witness Thank you. 
•  
• Those events from 1914 onward were, as Jesus put it, “a beginning of pangs of distress.” (Matthew 24:8)  pr section 7 pp. 25-28

Wt’s Greek Kingdom Interlinear:  “Will rise up nation upon nation and kingdom against kingdom and will be famines and [earth] quakes down on places; all but these (things) beginning of pangs of birth”  Matt 24:8

1914?  You have had children.  Since when do birth pangs/pains follow birth?  And why would the Watchtower not translate their Bible as their Interlinear reads, as “beginning of pangs of BIRTH” if not to support their lie about 1914?

New International Version
All these are the beginning of birth pains.

New Living Translation
But all this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come.

English Standard Version
All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.

Berean Study Bible
All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Berean Literal Bible
And all these are the beginning of birth pains.

New American Standard Bible
"But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.

And yes, I dug out and dusted off my copy of The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the GREEK SCRIPTURES. 1985. 

And sure enough it says " all but these things beginning of pains of birth".

Surely this is another example of going beyond the things written, especially as the GB state clearly that they are NOT inspired, so they have no excuse for changing the word of GOD. 

[the Sower of Seed]

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Surely this is another example of going beyond the things written, especially as the GB state clearly that they are NOT inspired, so they have no excuse for changing the word of GOD. 

Just one of an unnamed mob. Just like those Jews that joined in shouting"Impale Him".

Who were they ? We do not know. They were opposers of the Christ. Jehovah knew there would be misguided men that would bring about that great injustice. They worship Satan in their "works" of their so called faith. Like a ghost ship lost at sea, they are adrift in their reasonings against God, lost at sea.

Acts 17:5 But the Jews, getting jealous, gathered together some wicked men who were loitering at the marketplace and formed a mob and proceeded to throw the city into an uproar. They assaulted the house of Jaʹson and were seeking to have Paul and Silas brought out to the mob.(Who were they?) 

Some 20 million people were associated with Jehovah's Witnesses last year, and the year before, and the year before......Their Faith is Individual, They All have a similar faith in the Bible, they recognize that there were mistakes made by imperfect men in the past. Those mistakes are nothing in comparison to the blood guilt that other religions share in. 

The Governing Body not being inspired is a disclaimer that every word ever written magazines was inspired as the Bible was.

Are they Inspired YES. The Anointed must be inspired to know they are anointed.The Governing Body are humble men that have served Jehovah according to the faith of every man and woman in the Bible that were shown as having God's favor. Jesus, as a witness of Jehovah and His principles leads the Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Governing Body, anointed or otherwise, examine what Jesus said along with the apostles and others that God used to write the Bible and every example there in, they pray to Jehovah and discuss many topics that are common to men. Those who switch to this form of worship and those who have spent their whole life as Jehovah's Witnesses reflect Peters words at John 6:68 So Jesus said to the Twelve: “You do not want to go also, do you?”68 Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to?

Inspiration comes and goes according to God's Will, not because of mans desire. Many times the Bible states "and the spirit of Jehovah came upon him". That person was not inspired every minute of the day!

2 Chron.20:14 Then in the middle of the congregation, the spirit of Jehovah came upon Ja·ha·ziʹel son of Zech·a·riʹah son of Be·naiʹah son of Je·iʹel son of Mat·ta·niʹah the Levite of the sons of Aʹsaph. 

 

 

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

37 minutes ago, the Sower of Seed said:

The Governing Body are humble men that have served Jehovah according to the faith of every man and woman in the Bible that were shown as having God's favor. 

Yes. To borrow from the political world—which I know is not appreciated by many, still, a parallel is a parallel—something occurs here that is parallel to the media’s obsession with “separating Trump from his base.” What is their goal in doing that? So that the former will become irrelevant and the latter can be absorbed.

So it is with the obsession with running down the Governing Body. Why is it done? So that they will become irrelevant and those following their lead can be absorbed back into the world.