Jump to content
The World News Media

1914


JW Insider

Recommended Posts

  • Member

There is no doubt that In the last 106 years since 1914 the Christian congregation has had to deal with an entire world era of much more critical times than previous historical eras that have come upon the Christian congregation. Yet, when Paul said that in the last days the Christian congregation would see critical times hard to deal with, Paul was preparing Timothy for the fact that Timothy should expect to see these "critical times" in the 1st century congregations he was working with.

Currently, the Watchtower ties 1914 to the beginning of an era, or generation, that has seen greater wars than were ever seen previously in the history of the world. It is also supposed to be the beginning of a generation that has seen greater pestilence, famine, and earthquakes than any other previous generation in the history of the world.

Surely, there is nothing wrong with seeing this year as a time of great change in the world. If we ever needed proof that the world was lying in the power of the wicked one, then events that began in this particular year offered unassailable proof. Also, especially looking back, it seemed to be a sudden change to many people. European powers had exploited the wealth of many nations through violence to keep them as their own colonies. And the number of squabbles over who could exploit which nations had reached a boiling point. The Great European War starting in 1914 was supposed to be the final fight over how the exploitation of colonies around the world would be defined going forward. Lines would be drawn in the sand, and the "jungles". Who gets to exploit whom, would finally be defined and it would therefore be the war to end all wars.

But instead it just thrust upon mankind even more wars for greed, power, ego, persecution, murder, and theft. As one person on this forum commented, maybe WWI never ended.

So what could possibly be wrong with a doctrine that teaches that the final generation of mankind in this system of things should start in 1914?

Does the Bible say this is impossible? Does it go against any Biblical principles. Doesn't it fulfill prophecy?

What about Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Revelation 12?

Doesn't common sense tell us that the end is getting closer all the time, and that a final generation must appear at some point? With all the global problems, terrors, and fears, isn't now the most likely time to see ourselves in that final generation?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 14.9k
  • Replies 259
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Yes, and that according to Bible chronology, the FDS was appointed in 1919. So if 1914 was questioned, when were the FDS appointed? It would remove that whole aspect of what we have been taught, inclu

You are saying that they (GB) hang on to 1914 because if they get rid of it, they relinquish a Biblical base of authority. It's "nice" to have a Bible passage that talks about you and it's even "nicer

Quite so. And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out. The various persp

Posted Images

  • Member

You seem to switch from inside the congregation, to outside the congregation.

As you said, Paul was talking about inside the Christian congregation, but then you seem to say that it is right for the GB and JW Org to use that scripture to mean 'in the world'. 

Quote "So what could possibly be wrong with a doctrine that teaches that the final generation of mankind in this system of things should start in 1914? "

Firstly, I thought the GB / Org was now going with 'overlapping generations'.

Secondly, What age would you want them to have been in 1914 ?

Because they would be 106 years old in 2020 if born in 1914. 

And in Psalms it says that a persons life is 70 years or 80 if they are strong. 

Seems a bit of a contradiction to me. I know some folks do live to over a hundred but how many, where are they, and do they have true knowledge of God ? 

Are you actually a Watchtower writer, a 'Talk' writer for Sundays, or a ghost writer for the GB ? 

Of course the End is getting nearer, that is obvious. But i don't think global problems have any play on it. God through Christ will KNOW EXACTLY when to ACT.  It does not matter how many of us humans die in the mean time. The resurrection is a promise from God. A resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. 

Is your faith wavering ? Do you need to see a sign ? Are you looking for that elusive 'generation' ? 

Remember the words of Jesus "A wicked and adulterous generation keeps seeking a sign,* but no sign will be given it ............... 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

With all the global problems, terrors, and fears, isn't now the most likely time to see ourselves in that final generation?

Did you forget to take your JWI pills today?  

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

As one person on this forum commented, maybe WWI never ended.

It did. It ended in 1919. But the time of trouble it ushered in has not ended—the last days of Matt 24:7 start off with a bang if we are to connect the two events—the first time that the entire world is concurrently at war. Some time ago I wrote a post about how one might collect “turning point 1914” quotes, just as some collect stamps or coins. There are a lot of them.

I’m close to doubling down on that comment I once made previously about Jehovah leading his people carrot and stick with the end always seen as immanent. One thing that influences me in doing this is seeing how optimistic ex-JWs are about humankind’s future, far in excess of the the average person’s optimism. For most of the latter, reading the Drudge Report is like reading the Book of Revelation. Not so with many apostates—they see nothing but blue skies ahead.

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

Are you actually a Watchtower writer, a 'Talk' writer for Sundays, or a ghost writer for the GB ? 

Make him say “Shibboleth”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Did you forget to take your JWI pills today?  

😉 There's a reason that I have no problem preaching that we are in the last days, and that so many people see the world with fear. We live in a time of excessive troubles and people see no way out. It is our privilege to offer comfort to those sighing and groaning over the situation in this system of things.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

You seem to switch from inside the congregation, to outside the congregation.

To be clear, this is an opening position for a discussion that might answer a few of the questions in a more complete way than just the initial explanations here. But it's good to start with a position of agreement, and a position that acknowledges that the current view is not "crazy" or anti-Bible.

To that point, as I've stated before, I have no problem with the idea that we are in the "last days," and in some sense I would agree that we are also in the "last generation." And since I believe that Jesus began to rule as King invisibly in 33 C.E. and has been present with his followers ever since, then I also have no problem with preaching that Jesus is now enthroned as King, and is invisibly present. I also believe the times we live in are significant in that they are fulfilling all the statements about the "parousia" throughout the entire Christian Greek Scriptures. And, in any case, the answer is the same no matter when we believe that Christ's enthronement and presence began. It's the outworking of Jehovah's eternal purpose through his Kingdom as ruled by Christ Jesus, throughout the millennium and into the final perfection of the new heavens and new earth.

I would even say that, as far as Matthew 24 is concerned, Jehovah intended for us to look at this prophecy, ostensibly about Jerusalem only, and see in it a wider fulfillment that would guide us through future days as we look to the end of the entire worldly system of things -- not just the end of the Jewish system in 70 CE. 2 Tim 3:16 tells us that many scriptures can provide this value to us.

But, unless someone has some scriptural evidence that will correct and override the evidence I've seen so far, I will very likely continue to present the evidence much as I have in the past. However, I see an opportunity to get some more constructive criticism on these views from persons who have participated on this topic in the past, and perhaps some additional thoughts will be convincing. For example, a person like @TrueTomHarley has often surprised me with a take on some scriptures that provides a refreshing perspective. @b4ucuhear has clearly given a lot of thought to the chronology problem, and I hope to get him to share more of what he has learned. He has also asked questions that I have not responded to yet. @Anna has apparently tried to see things from the perspective I have presented, and she is not afraid to question when something doesn't quite appear correct. (Her questions have also pointed out 'holes in the theory' that I am still not 100 percent clear on myself.) @ComfortMyPeople seems to follow a lot of what I've posted on this topic, but rarely says much about it. I'm hoping for a bit more sometime soon. @Outta Here probably got tired of my reaction to my own "JWI pills," but he often said a lot more with fewer words than anyone else who responded to me. (He was the one who suggested that WWI never ended.) @Srecko Sostar and @Witness , although quite different, have also provided very thought-provoking perspectives of their own, and I rarely give their ideas the amount of time I ought to in my responses. And of course, there are others who, in their own way, might help me settle some of these questions and opinions in my own mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
34 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

😉 There's a reason that I have no problem preaching that we are in the last days, and that so many people see the world with fear. We live in a time of excessive troubles and people see no way out. It is our privilege to offer comfort to those sighing and groaning over the situation in this system of things.

I originally attached a smiley emoji to my question about JWI pills but then I took it out. I didn’t want Allen to think I was a sycophant any more than he already does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

@Annahas apparently tried to see things from the perspective I have presented, and she is not afraid to question when something doesn't quite appear correct. (Her questions have also pointed out 'holes in the theory' that I am still not 100 percent clear on myself

I've already forgotten what those holes were 😀. It's just that I like the sound of 1914, I do! I do! (jumping up and down enthusiastically). But I'm also wondering if it might be a date much similar to 1925 which we were so "positively sure about". There are also a lot of discrepancies that I have superficially looked at, but need to investigate more thoroughly. And I can't help a quote from a certain someone resonating in my head, that we got the idea of 1914, lock stock and barrel, from the 2nd day advertists....and also if a certain person can be believed, that several members of the GB started to question its veracity. I can see that 1914 is decisive to our faith not so much because of it being the last days, but because the appointment of the FDS hinges on it, and unless some alternative date, or at least period of time is found, then I do not see it going away for that reason. My main concern is the sticking to this doctrine for the sole purpose of the supposed appointment of the FDS, if indeed that is the purpose. The frustrating thing is that only time will tell, and if 1914 is wrong, then most of us will not even know this side of the system. Somehow, the more I get involved in reading this topic on here, the more at peace I am. I am not stressing about how near is "just around the corner" or how close is the "last of the last days". I feel like I am above all that now. I know it will come. I know as Christians we do our best in preaching and teaching, we do our best in being "no part of the world" we do our best following in Jesus' footsteps, in our life we pay attention to what God wants as opposed to many who don't question themselves with regard to God's wishes and just live their life with only regard for themselves. So: "plan ahead as if Armageddon won't come in your lifetime, but live your life as if it will come tomorrow". Best advice ever, (and I know I've mentioned this on here several times). 

So whoever's is dangling that carrot can stuff it right up their nose  😁 @TrueTomHarley (I don't think it's Jehovah obviously. On that note, are there scriptural examples of Jehovah dangling a carrot?)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

@ComfortMyPeople seems to follow a lot of what I've posted on this topic, but rarely says much about it. I'm hoping for a bit more sometime soon.

Yes, I want to address this issue, but from another perspective. I get desperate and tired of talking about a date, how contrary to the spirit of the Bible and the warnings of Jesus!
While I prepare what I would like to say (remember that it is very difficult for me to express myself in English), I attach this link that although somewhat old, I think it is relevant.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Who does this description fit? 

A carrot dangler is someone who promises something—and never comes through. When you try to collect on the promise, there is always some reason why they can't give it to you right then, though they tell you they will do it another time. But when "another time" comes along, that isn't a good time either, and so it goes, until you give up on that carrot, and then they start to dangle another carrot. 

Most of the time, whoever does this, wants something from you, but never gives anything back. However, in this case, (1914) I am thinking the person or persons just doesn't want to lose face...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
53 minutes ago, Anna said:

Most of the time, whoever does this, wants something from you, but never gives anything back. However, in this case, (1914) I am thinking the person or persons just doesn't want to lose face...

To the best of my knowledge and belief (please correct me if I am wrong ...) the WTB&TS has made hundreds of "mistakes", from "devil pus vaccinations", to continuously hyping Armageddon as "next week" .. and they have NEVER apologized for ANYTHING ...... EVER.

Of course, it's hard to be humble, when you are perfect in every way, and your credibility and contributed donations, which must be like showering under a waterfall (which I once did, in the Grand Canyon, many years ago ...) depend on the publishers having and keeping that impression.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
27 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

and your credibility and contributed donations, which must be like showering under a waterfall (which I once did, in the Grand Canyon, many years ago ...) depend on the publishers having and keeping that impression.

I agree with the credibility bit, however I do not think that ensuring contributions are the prime reason for keeping that credibility. I really believe it is a matter of pride, and the fear of what could happen to the faith of many people as a result of admitting that 1914 could be a mistake. If we were to think that the only reason is money, then this would be a fraudulent organization, which I don't think it is, and I dont think you do either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
3 hours ago, Anna said:

I've already forgotten what those holes were

I'll make sure they come up.

3 hours ago, Anna said:

I can see that 1914 is decisive to our faith not so much because of it being the last days, but because the appointment of the FDS hinges on it

That comes across as too cynical. If there is an appointment of a special class to "feed his little sheep" why could it not just "pop up" inspirationally at any time or place that the need is great enough. (Times and places where the harvest is great but the workers are few.) Why can't all persons in history who would volunteer for such a ministry be considered as candidates in all Christian-like religions, and then the one group of teaching volunteers that appears to have the most truth be the one that lovers of truth associate with? Pre-2011, this was basically our doctrine. That wheat and weeds grew alongside each other through all the centuries from the first on down until today. Various teachers who taught a larger than usual measure of truth like Wycliffe, Tyndale, Waldenses, Arius, etc., were considered to be 'faithful and wise servants' who helped to coalesce a "wheat" class and keep it distinguished from a "weed" class. We should expect that there would have been many candidates vying to teach truth, and from the perspective of those who would be seeking out truth, they would grow as wheat.

3 hours ago, Anna said:

The frustrating thing is that only time will tell, and if 1914 is wrong, then most of us will not even know this side of the system. Somehow, the more I get involved in reading this topic on here, the more at peace I am.

Another perspective is that it is always correct to say it is just around the corner, because it is. It is always as close as our own lifespan. We are, in effect "harvested" as wheat or weeds at the end of our life, or at the 'harvest of the world' which happens at Christ's parousia. 1914 could be dead wrong, and the end could come tonight. But our entire life is an opportunity to continually keep our motivations in check, so that we are moved to do good for our brothers and sisters and neighbors and enemies, out of a love for God and fellow man. If we find ourselves motivated by following a group of men, or peer pressure, or to be seen by men, then we are not motivated out of a pure heart.

(1 Timothy 1:5) . . .Really, the objective of this instruction is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy.

But there is a difference in being motivated by a date, and being motivated by the fact that we think the end is so close because, for example, we know that the "generation" might be up in the very near future. There is nothing wrong with being motivated in part because we believe the end of all things is upon us. That would make us want to be ready at any time, every day. This is not the same thing as being (wrongly) motivated because we believe the "end," for example, going to occur within a few months of 2034, or within weeks of a declaration of "Peace and Security" or a "Hailstone message" or when we see that they finally have to put a member of the great crowd in the GB. These latter motivations are the same thing as saying "my master is delaying" and that is dangerous because it becomes a partial motivation for our actions. We will have the feeling that we need not "shape up" 100 percent, until we can see those future expectations begin to occur more clearly.

I think the proper motivation that can come out of a belief that the end can occur at any time, and that it might be very close, is probably what TTH is referring to with the carrot and stick proposition. Not that it is just meant as a tease to get more work out of us.

3 hours ago, Anna said:

I am not stressing about how near is "just around the corner" or how close is the "last of the last days". I feel like I am above all that now. I know it will come. I know as Christians we do our best in preaching and teaching, we do our best in being "no part of the world"

I believe that you have described what Jesus must have meant when he spoke of the truth as not being burdensome.

(Matthew 11:28-30) 28 Come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and you will find refreshment for yourselves. 30 For my yoke is kindly, and my load is light.”

A constant "carrot and stick" with specific goal posts that are moved over and over again becomes a burden. We can never do enough, and we are then serving for specific measurable works.

The old days (1940's-1960's) had a "Circuit Servant" setting quotas for the congregation and then chiding the congregation for not meeting them. This was a sad state of affairs (that seems to have been directly copied from sales meetings for door-to-door merchandise peddlers and other types of salesmen). My uncle who was a Circuit Servant/Overseer was trained by the District Servant to find things the congregation can meet and find things the congregagion probably can't meet, with the overall goal of having the congregation "pushed" to help reach the national quotas found in the "Informant"/"Kingdom Ministry." This way there would be some items to commend, but there would always be the need to work harder. There wasn't that much of a carrot, except in the idea that the works were considered proof of righteousness. I think it was about once a month that the Congregation Servant pulled the huge number chart out from behind the curtain at the Service Meeting to go over how well we were meeting our quotas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I think it was about once a month that the Congregation Servant pulled the huge number chart out from behind the curtain at the Service Meeting to go over how well we were meeting our quotas.

I started getting interested in the Truth about 1961, and I remember that huge number chart, as big as a 4x8 foot piece of plywood.  No one ever walked me up to it and explained it to me, and I figured it was "quotas", although at the time I did not even understand that.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • It appears to me that this is a key aspect of the 2030 initiative ideology. While the Rothschilds were indeed influential individuals who were able to sway governments, much like present-day billionaires, the true impetus for change stems from the omnipotent forces (Satan) shaping our world. In this case, there is a false God of this world. However, what drives action within a political framework? Power! What is unfolding before our eyes in today's world? The relentless struggle for power. The overwhelming tide of people rising. We cannot underestimate the direct and sinister influence of Satan in all of this. However, it is up to individuals to decide how they choose to worship God. Satanism, as a form of religion, cannot be regarded as a true religion. Consequently, just as ancient practices of child sacrifice had a place in God's world, such sacrifices would never be accepted by the True God of our universe. Despite the promising 2030 initiative for those involved, it is unfortunately disintegrating due to the actions of certain individuals in positions of authority. A recent incident serves as a glaring example, involving a conflict between peaceful Muslims and a Jewish representative that unfolded just this week. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/11/us-delegation-saudi-arabia-kippah?ref=upstract.com Saudi Arabia was among the countries that agreed to the initiative signed by approximately 179 nations in or around 1994. However, this initiative is now being undermined by the devil himself, who is sowing discord among the delegates due to the ongoing Jewish-Hamas (Palestine) conflict. Fostering antisemitism. What kind of sacrifice does Satan accept with the death of babies and children in places like Gaza, Ukraine, and other conflicts around the world, whether in the past or present, that God wouldn't? Whatever personal experiences we may have had with well-known individuals, true Christians understand that current events were foretold long ago, and nothing can prevent them from unfolding. What we are witnessing is the result of Satan's wrath upon humanity, as was predicted. A true religion will not involve itself in the politics of this world, as it is aware of the many detrimental factors associated with such engagement. It understands the true intentions of Satan for this world and wisely chooses to stay unaffected by them.
    • This idea that Satan can put Jews in power implies that God doesn't want Jews in power. But that would also imply that God only wants "Christians" including Hitler, Biden, Pol Pot, Chiang Kai-Shek, etc. 
    • @Mic Drop, I don't buy it. I watched the movie. It has all the hallmarks of the anti-semitic tropes that began to rise precipitously on social media during the last few years - pre-current-Gaza-war. And it has similarities to the same anti-semitic tropes that began to rise in Europe in the 900's to 1100's. It was back in the 500s AD/CE that many Khazars failed to take or keep land they fought for around what's now Ukraine and southern Russia. Khazars with a view to regaining power were still being driven out into the 900's. And therefore they migrated to what's now called Eastern Europe. It's also true that many of their groups converted to Judaism after settling in Eastern Europe. It's possibly also true that they could be hired as mercenaries even after their own designs on empire had dwindled.  But I think the film takes advantage of the fact that so few historical records have ever been considered reliable by the West when it comes to these regions. So it's easy to fill the vacuum with some very old antisemitic claims, fables, rumors, etc..  The mention of Eisenhower in the movie was kind of a giveaway, too. It's like, Oh NO! The United States had a Jew in power once. How on earth could THAT have happened? Could it be . . . SATAN??" Trying to tie a connection back to Babylonian Child Sacrifice Black Magick, Secret Satanism, and Baal worship has long been a trope for those who need to think that no Jews like the Rothschilds and Eisenhowers (????) etc would not have been able to get into power in otherwise "Christian" nations without help from Satan.    Does child sacrifice actually work to gain power?? Does drinking blood? Does pedophilia??? (also mentioned in the movie) Yes, it's an evil world and many people have evil ideologies based on greed and lust and ego. But how exactly does child sacrifice or pedophilia or drinking blood produce a more powerful nation or cabal of some kind? To me that's a giveaway that the authors know that the appeal will be to people who don't really care about actual historical evidence. Also, the author(s) of the video proved that they have not done much homework, but are just trying to fill that supposed knowledge gap by grasping at old paranoid and prejudicial premises. (BTW, my mother and grandmother, in 1941 and 1942, sat next to Dwight Eisenhower's mother at an assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Eisenhower family had been involved in a couple of "Christian" religions and a couple of them associated with IBSA and JWs for many years.)
  • Members

    • SuzA

      SuzA 25

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • JW Insider

      JW Insider 9,623

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Abegail Sheldon

      Abegail Sheldon 24

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Pudgy

      Pudgy 2,367

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
  • Recent Status Updates

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      158.6k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,648
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    Miracle Pete
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.