Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

they just have been giving opportunity to direct the organization

How came to that, that they just found themselves to be in this opportunity?

This formulation say how they had no "qualifications", but JUST had been GIVING opportunity to direct.

Who gave them (GB) this opportunity from 1971 on ? WT Society Administration? Or God? Or mutual effort of human and spirit (similar to what was described in Acts, ..."we and holy spirit decided to ....") ?    

[Anna]

14 hours ago, Witness said:

For all of you dissecting this case, an opinion from a retired justice of the Montana Supreme Court

"Religion does not give sexual predators a pass"

https://helenair.com/opinion/columnists/religion-does-not-give-sexual-predators-a-pass/article_f22cf868-64b0-56c0-8028-6e690731adb3.html

 

Indeed. I agree with his opinion in that the law needs to be changed.

Page 15 of the Supreme Court's decision says this: "This Court’s task is to interpret what is contained in the reporting statute as written by the Legislature. We do not opine whether that body could have made a different policy choice that would afford greater protection to child victims. The Legislature is the appropriate body to entertain such policy arguments.

 

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

  Did WT Society and all included in spreading "spiritual truths and doctrines" lied to general public and JW members by claiming how JW congregations have not clergy, priesthood class and how elders in congregations are not clergy, priesthood?

Its simple. From a worldly point of view the elders are clergy. From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders. However, outside of a worldly situation (meaning a worldly situation like a court setting) a member of the Christian congregation will not view the elders as clergy, because they are not applying the worldly point of view.  No deceit or lying there.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

The Elders are clergy and Policemen, and judges and decision makers, and dictators et al. 

[Arauna]

22 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

and dictators et al. 

I wish people knew what a dictator is.  When they live under one they will not use the word so freely. People call jehovah a dictator as well because he dares to tell them what is right and wrong!

[Srecko Sostar]

31 minutes ago, Anna said:

Its simple. From a worldly point of view the elders are clergy. From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders. However, outside of a worldly situation (meaning a worldly situation like a court setting) a member of the Christian congregation will not view the elders as clergy, because they are not applying the worldly point of view.  No deceit or lying there.

From a worldly point of view the elders are clergy. From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders.

Than, result is the same: JW elders are clergy, priesthood.

However, outside of a worldly situation (meaning a worldly situation like a court setting) a member of the Christian congregation will not view the elders as clergy, because they are not applying the worldly point of view.

Is it doing bad to children (or CSA)?:

-worldly situation or

-situation inside JW congregation or

-worldly situation inside JW situation who operate inside worldly system situation?  

Where, to Whom Courts belong? To worldly situation only? To satan, because he is god of this World?

Courts belongs in Bible situation. They are God's Servants, and not devil's Servants (your Bible said so, your interpretation of Romans said so too). Bible situation says how all people (Christian congregants too)  belong to Secular Authorities who making decisions who is who. In Montana situation JW elders prayed, asked Court to give them distinctive title - clergy, priesthood. Obviously they asked Court to give them something that God "failed" to give it to them.  :)))

 

[Arauna]

54 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders.

That is your personal opinion..... the bible gives us instructions on what the role of elders are and we try to follow these instructions.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 minutes ago, Arauna said:

That is your personal opinion..... the bible gives us instructions on what the role of elders are and we try to follow these instructions.

No problem, don't worry, I understand you. We just comment Montana situation :))

[Anna]

13 minutes ago, Arauna said:

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders.

That is your personal opinion.

Well no, that is not my personal opinion. That is the opinion of the Christian Congregation. How else could they claim clergy privilege unless they applied the worldly definition (legal definition) to the elders?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I still repeat that JWs break the law of the land when it suits them, but obey the law of the land when its convenient to them. 

Suit yourselves though. It's so clear to see that the GB, their lawyers, and most JWs have no love, nor even any feelings for Victims of Child Sexual Abuse within JW Org. The Victims are just Collateral Damage, pushed aside as being inconvenient....  

So your GB and it's Org saved themselves some money. Wow. But what is much more important is, the feelings of God and Christ on these matters.  I'm sure that God, Christ and the scriptures would be on the side of the Victims here. But that of course does not matter to your GB, sitting high in their new home. 

[Arauna]

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

JWs break the law of the land when it suits them

There is no way you can "suit yourself" in a secular  court of law - you fight to win....... to expect otherwise is unjust.  If you lose while innocent and obeying God (like brothers in Russia) one serves the penalty and then try to appeal within the secular law system they have created.

4jah2me, if your sense of justice is still outraged :  I understand..but do not forget, even if a guilty person gets away with something like murder, rape, etc. Jehovah sees everything and he will compensate in future when His system arrives - in the end there will be true justice for all.

Do you believe that God really exists and there is a future where he will compensate?   .... The 1000 years is called a day of judgment is it not?  This world is not all there is....

The GB will be judged as individuals and how they executed their responsibilities given to them. If you really believe God exists - then rest assured no-one will get away with something serious...  The elders too.  God is not partial. 

I have seen elders handle their responsibilities in good way.... and bad.  If their brand of justice is flawed, I have seen elders fall out or be removed...  but jehovah is a God of mercy...... he always gives people time to change or improve..........or repent....... no matter what their sin was.

In a secular court - we accept judgment - even if a mistake was made. We accept that human judgment is not perfect and then try to fight the verdict through legal channels. Many people on death row have been innocent.

In the congregation people's spiritual lives are at stake.... I can speak from experience..... I come across here as hard ... but I have been in truth since I was 21 - the first in my family.  The knocks I got from imperfect brothers and sisters in this time  did affect me....especially when I was young, stupid and fragile. .. but in the end it strengthened me and gave me "endurance". 

I stuck to jehovah (made Him my joy) and cultivated humility. I always tried to understand imperfection and only trust jehovah and stick to him..... this helped me to endure and grow in understanding.

This it is the crux of the matter...... trust that jehovah is the great compensator.  He is the only and absolute provider of true justice. He is righteous.

I read a lot of news .... when I read of the growing injustices against Christian's in north Africa...... the murders, rapes etc.  I just want to literally cry...... in this world run by satan behind the scenes, there is no true justice. 

JUSTICE really depends what kind of government is in power ..... and how corrupt it is or not.    We all will learn this soon when governments turn on religion.... we will see how just governments really are.  The bible does not say for nothing that those who accept Jesus' randsom will be persecuted before Armageddon. 

The law is usually the instrument by which they persecute people when the society is reasonably civil.  When society is in chaos, you are just executed or kangaroo court prevails.

Be glad you are living in a first world country - although things are deteriorating fast.  I cry for the young children being raped in Africa ...... all the time.... it is endemic....  law and order is only for those in power..... not the victims.

Jehovah loves the lowly, the victims..... and they do get a measure of comfort from Him in this world....... the full healing for them will only come in the new system.. ...but they must draw close to jehovah now to get this comfort.  Some do not appreciate this offer from jehovah..... and throw the opportunities away.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

51 minutes ago, Arauna said:

The 1000 years is called a day of judgment is it not? 

Out of topic, but just for fun. Revelation is very symbolic book. 1000 years can be also 24 human hours and can be millions of human years too. 

52 minutes ago, Arauna said:

In a secular court - we accept judgment - even if a mistake was made. We accept that human judgment is not perfect and then try to fight the verdict through legal channels.

 

53 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Jehovah sees everything and he will compensate in future when His system arrives - in the end there will be true justice for all.

This two quote contradict itself. Question is: Why WT Lawyers not waiting for God's Justice ... in the future?

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

That is your personal opinion..... the bible gives us instructions on what the role of elders are and we try to follow these instructions.

From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders.

This is what  @Anna said, not me. :))

[Arauna]

13 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Out of topic, but just for fun.

Says you!   I was comparing current worldly system and Jehovahs true justice system  in future.  

15 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

quote contradict itself.

No - I spoke of current secular system we all live under and future justice of God. 

I do not know if you are deliberately obtuse or not..... but I leave it at that.....

19 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders.

Yes! In a WORDLY court of law!   ..... in the secular world we live in.....