Coronavirus: Jehovah’s Witnesses Cancel Historical Evangelism In UK
With the apparent failure of the western powers to contain a further spread of the contagious coronavirus, a religious organisation, the Jehovah’s Witnesses (
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ), has cancelled its historical mode of evangelism across the United Kingdom.
For fear of the disease, the Christian religion organisation, for the first time in the history of its existence, announced the cancellation of its evangelism activities, including house-to-house, street and literature cart witnessing in the entire UK.
The cancellation was coming for the first time in 139 years since the religion sect got to London in 1881 and the opening of its first branch there in 1900.
A source based in London told Tribune Online that the JW has further announced the cancellation of their usual Sunday meeting gatherings in their entire place of worship, known as Kingdom Halls, in the whole of the United Kingdom. “Local congregation body of elders now awaits further directives from JW headquarters and branches in what will unfold in the coming weeks,” the source further revealed.
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In 1889, the WT said " we present PROOFS that the setting up of the kingdom of God has already begun...and that 'the battle of the great day of God almighty' (Revelation16:14),which will end in AD1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced.".
The watchtower presented "proofs".
These "proofs" were wrong, so what credibility do they have to "proclaim" anything?
By JOHN BUTLER
I am having a thought about getting together with whomever, here in the UK, and having some leaflets printed
The leaflets would be to warn people about the Child Abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation.
Distribution would be by hand in the form of witnessing work.
The idea would be to bring praise to God whilst warning people, especially people with young children, against association with the JW Org at this time.
Warning would also be to JW's that they can expect problems when on the ministry. Problems arising from people having the true knowledge about the Child Abuse.
Of course the leaflets would have to be factual, truthful, and not insulting.
Does anyone know how legal this would be to do this in the UK ?
By JOHN BUTLER
Looking at the 'news' on MSN. Yes I know I've been warned not to believe MSN etc....
But my point is that world conditions appear to be getting much worse more quickly.
I'm wondering, is it because we have the world wide web, this internet, that tells us everything. Or is it because I'm getting old and not liking 'change'.
Or, is it really getting much worse more quickly ?
God's words warns us as to what is coming. God's words gives us the signs of the times. But is it now ?
If it is now and if God really wants more people to be saved, then hopefully God will put things into place, so that honest hearted people will know where to find the honest Truth.
10 men clinging to the skirt of a Jew. That keeps coming back into my mind every day now. Spiritual Jews, the Heavenly chosen ones.
Yes i come on here and spout out loud, sometimes with anger in my heart, but underneath i am looking for truth. May God be kind enough to show us the way forward.
By JOHN BUTLER
"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,"
2 Timothy 3 v 16
Was this in it's way a small prophecy ?
The 2nd book of Timothy was written 65 C.E. However 1,2,3, John and Revelation were written much later.
So we have two points, 1. The writings were not complete when Paul wrote that information. 2, The Bible had not been constructed so no idea would have been formed as to what the Bible would contain.
Were there other writings ? Would they be considered as Scripture?
It seems that Paul was inspired to write that "All scripture is inspired.... "
By JOHN BUTLER
The JW Org / GB say that Armageddon is very close. They also say that Jehovah is speeding up the work in these 'last days'.
Now, it seems I'm not one for knowing truth from lies, so people keep telling me, but this webpage/site seemed interesting to me.
It seems to show more of a decrease in JW's, but more importantly it seems to show more of a lack of faith, or lack of action / 'works' of JW's. It also shows a large number of people leaving the JW Org.
If this video or page has been used before then I apologise for any repeat. But I thought it was of interest.
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By Israeli Bar Avaddhon
" When you see a cloud rising in western places, you immediately say: 'It is the time', and it happens. And when you see a south wind blowing, you say, 'There will be a heat wave,' and it happens. Hypocrites, you know to examine the appearance of earth and sky, but why do not you know look at this particular time? "- Luke 12: 54-56 From the first article in this blog wanted to distance itself clearly from all those sites and polemical blogs created solely as a safety valve and cast a shadow on the governing body or the people of God as a whole. Many of these, though not all, are the expression of the frustration of some for losing certain positions, visibility and below. We do not reveal any mystery by asserting that some are puffed up with pride thinking of always being right and being invested supreme authority - 1 Timothy 3: 6 We do not even say nothing strange if we say that some people, seeing recognized their merits, real or perceived, on the job or elsewhere, have seen in the "theocratic assignments" a kind of redemption. One way to demonstrate the "worth something" - Psalm 18:27; Proverbs 6:16, 17 For this and other reasons, when some have seen the collapse of all their "dreams of glory," they thought to start a smear campaign against God's people and also have the pass to do anything - 2 Peter 2:22 Apart from these, you have to recognize or admit the possibility that there are people who have opened sites or blogs contentious because they suffered real injustice or clashing sincerely from a scriptural point of view - John 9:34; Revelation 2: 4, 20 If anyone re-discuss openly the "doctrine" of 1914, for example, would sooner or later expelled from the congregation if they did not fit immediately into the ranks. It would be presumptuous to think that the reflections made in this blog on the 1914, as well as on other subjects, are not already been done by others. Although humanly speaking the author of this blog is close to all those who have been expelled not for a repeated offense but because of his own conscience on biblical themes, none of us has the authority to denigrate, insult or alienate others by the people which, net of all faults and limitations , it is still God's people. That each of us to reflect seriously on the words of the Lord when he said what we find in Matthew 18: 6 So, as much as depends on us and as long as Jehovah will show us clearly something else, no one let the people of God because if within the His People there will be severe discipline (also because of those who were unjustly expelled - compares Giovanni 16: 2), outside of His People there will be something else. Of course, situations may arise in which we listen to our conscience - Romans 14: 5 To avoid this sad event, we are encouraged to be "cautious as serpents" also to our brothers - Matthew 10:16; 24:10 For the moment we can share many things with our brothers including the preaching work, attendance at meetings, etc., without necessarily having to collide on the 1914 or Babylon the Great. So, reiterating the concept, regardless of the GB and errors of God's people as a whole, a blog or website for purely polemical can not be considered a viable option for those who love God and sincerely studying His Word. We should also ask ourselves "What gave me" a site after reading an article that mentioned what is wrong and even make it a novel is the easiest thing in the world * (see footnote). This introduction was necessary to explain the following article because the reasons could be easily misunderstood. As we saw from the very first articles, though this blog is dedicated to the prophecy, it was not possible to treat the prophecy without touching some doctrines associated with them. The Word of God has such a strong internal consistency that is not reasonable to believe that he could explain the prophecies of Revelation (and other prophetic books) without touching the doctrine of the resurrection (which will happen at the end of the millennium and not during), the order chronological or not the book, the "doctrine" of 1914, the seven days of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar and so on. For this reason you will find after not purely prophetic that was inevitable anyway to deal hope to understand something more about the prophecies. This highlights one of the reasons why some will never understand the prophecies in spite of the efforts: the inability or unwillingness to renegotiate certain doctrines that are upstream. On the same principle we must necessarily realize that you can not move forward in the understanding of the times in which we live and those who arrive without touching the sensitive topic of "governing body" or "quality of spiritual food." This has already been done, more or less soft, in several previous post (see for example the article entitled "Restoration of true worship. Dress clean for the High Priest"). At least with regard to the current understanding, the prophecies do understand that the "light" to lead the people of God (which is clearly not the Bible or it may not be less - Psalm 119: 105) will turn off for a certain period of time and this will serve to lay bare the depth of our relationship with Jehovah - compares Isaiah 28:16 So it does not be surprised if before then that the light begins to fade. Many of us have noticed that certain topics are not touched for years and that on certain issues it is more elusive than before. In return, all the paper work which involves legalism for appointments, discipline, legal protections and various committees have greatly strengthened - Psalm 127: 1, 2 So the following article is of course a critical and will be targeted to the specific material , but everything will be done remembering who we are (Romans 3:23, 24; 1 Corinthians 4: 7) with the sole purpose of reflecting as part of prophecy is already fulfilled before our eyes - 1 Corinthians 14: 8, 9 The reader is invited not necessarily share the article but at least compare the scriptures mentioned and to consider whether the arguments are brought forward with logic. Â The following article will cover part of the Watchtower in October 2017. The article is titled "Visions of Zechariah: because there concern?" Â Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. A vision does not understand something more of a command or a need? Â Â Since the beginning, we can focus on the questions listed in the first paragraph. Why Jehovah gave to the prophet visions so unusual? In what situation were the Israelites at that time? What do we learn today from those visions? Â The questions are certainly deep and detailed so that we isolate some notable points to see how we have tried to give an answer. After a brief explanation of the background and necessary (paragraph two), " Jehovah assured them that would help them restore the true worship" (paragraph three). Let us pause a moment and reflect on these words. He took for themselves, without knowing anything of Zechariah, the book and the time in which it was written, one would think that the theme that will be developed will focus precisely on how Jehovah will restore true worship. Doing disquisitions on whether past or future fulfillment of these words, should not talk about this? Among other things paragraph confirms that this will be the sixth and seventh vision and this would appear to suggest that these visions reveal details on how Jehovah will do this. Besides a vision should include something more of a command; the same ten commandments and all the Mosaic law did not need a vision that was dictated and that the Israelites understood the requirements of the Most Almighty and moral norms that should have respect. Instead the following paragraphs, although the steering wheel scroll vision written in front and behind is "very special", they say that "God will punish whoever steals and among Christians there is no place for any kind of theft." Zechariah really needed a vision to understand that God does not tolerate the theft? Apart from that, as we have said, it seems strange that a vision is limited to this, but the question we should ask is ... "Zacharias did not know that Jehovah does not tolerate the theft?" - Compare Exodus 20:15; Leviticus 19:11, 13; Proverbs 11: 1; 20:23 It 's unusual for a prophet of Jehovah but also the rest of the people had to remember a need so obvious, present even in the most primitive human legal systems.
It would not be sufficient to read "the book of the law" as in the past it was done and how the law itself provided? Until the end of paragraph seven, there is not the slightest indication that this vision can have a deeper explanation and that can be applied particularly in the future. The subsequent paragraphs remain the same "conservative" line. We should not swear falsely, and the promises made to Jehovah - compares Leviticus 19:12; Numbers 30: 2; Ecclesiastes 5: 5, 6 The next vision is even more interesting. Â Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Even the arrival city has no prophetic significance? Â From the subtitle "The evil is put in its proper place," we can see how the vision that perhaps leaves Zaccaria "horrified" with all its details, it "makes it clear that Jehovah will never tolerate any form of evil within his people and will ensure that it is eliminated quickly. " Then women with wings stork carrying away the mingled with evil in the land of Shinar, underline this aspect. Why they choose Sinar and not Nineveh, for example? Because "Israelites them have thought that Sinar was the place where relegate Evil. Zechariah and his contemporaries Jews, in fact, they could confirm that Babylon wickedness was widespread." Again the vision of the container, the evil woman, women with wings stork and the country of destination have no special meaning, much less prophetic. It must be said that if we had dealt with this issue even thirty years ago, maybe someone would begin to calculate the distance between Jerusalem and Sinar to find some correspondence with some meeting or resolution modern or past. This article is definitely more conservative than those of a few years ago ** (see note below) but it really is prudent that we see in this article, or something else? We try to be very objective without hiring a team cheer attitude. Do we really think that Zacharias had seven visions in such a special time, to learn that Jehovah does not tolerate theft, falsehood and evil? Do we really think that the restoration-of true worship has nothing to do with our days? If we had started from chapter four instead to section five, we would not perhaps have inevitably head towards Revelation? - compares Zechariah 4: 2, 3 and Revelation 11: 4 Zechariah chapter four he not also speaks of the restoration-of true worship, just as do the five chapters and six? If Zechariah and Revelation are connected, even if only in part, we would not have had to reflect on the identity of this "evil woman" which, incidentally, is transported in the most important city of Babylon that "to his own place"? Â We said that the article is not intended as a criticism for its own sake so that everyone will have to make their own assessments in the light of the scriptures. Certainly, as we have seen in the articles entitled "We are staggering like drunks?" and "Approaching Storm", we can understand "how far we are" the discipline of Jehovah, and also understand the reasons why he decides have to discipline there meditating on these aspects. If they make a reason all those who believe that the withdrawal of the books "Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy" and "The Revelation Its Grand Climax" was the prelude to a new version with "new light." Indeed, there is to be afraid to imagine the explanations that may be. However, those who really pay attention to the prophetic word, they have no reason to be discouraged or be upset. If the light of a certain guide goes out, we have a guide that will never disappoint - Isaiah 40: 8 It 'important and urgent than ever, particularly in view of what will happen, become independent in our research and sharpen our power of reason - Romans 12: 1 We must also realize the responsibility that entails some knowledge. We must help not those who have become critical for bias and with whom you can not think and even those who can not and do not intend to call into question every truth imposed from above - Matthew 15: 6 We must help those who can still asking questions that do not come from the organization or even close their eyes to what is going to happen. We do not know to what extent the people of God will reshaped , but up to the revelation of the two witnesses in sackcloth this will continue to be the people of God and in any case, whatever happens, let us cling tightly to the Word of God that is the only truth - John 17:17 Recalling the words of Jesus quoted at the beginning of this article, and keeping in mind that we are nobody and we have one thousandth of its authority , make sure not to become like those who were part of God's people and that they were recognized as authorities but at the same time, could not understand "their particular time." We do not seek excuses why everyone has a Bible and the basic knowledge to deepen the arguments. Let us not be too full of us, basking in our safety thinking that others will pay. We could wake up in a really unwanted. How would we feel if the Lord said, " You're a hypocrite" ? - compares Amos 3: 2 Â Â Footnotes. * This also applies to all those sites that say they are prophetic but are merely interpreting the past Jehovah's judgments to the people of God. This is also a fairly easy game. Â ** Just take a look at the book, no longer in publication "Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy" where virtually any number of days in the prophetic book were applied to assemblies, resolutions and publications.
By Israeli Bar Avaddhon
Chapter 38 of Ezekiel: Who is Gog of Magog? If you've read the article entitled "What nations disappear at Armageddon?", Regardless of whether you've shared or not , you pretend not to have read it. Obviously at the end of this article, if you consider it useful, you can go and take it back. Although that article had to deal with, inevitably, the identity of Gog of Magog, I found it necessary to resume the topic being discussed among many brothers also because the last change of understanding. We all know what the officer says understanding, is not it? Gog of Magog is a coalition of nations (not Satan) who organize to attack the people of God. In reference to the Millennial Kingdom of Christ, Gog of Magog "check" again to attack the "healthy part" of God's people. That is to say that these people, before being identified as Gog of Magog, would our surviving brothers Armageddon (or their offspring) but, they decide to rebel against Jehovah God by attacking the party faithful after a thousand years of peace and prosperity, of His people. We must honestly admit that this case has puzzled some 'everyone from the beginning because it really seems absurd that after a thousand years of peace and happiness, someone should organize to recreate the same terrible conditions existing in the pre-Armageddon world. Incidentally Revelation speaks not just "someone" but says it will be "as the sand of the sea"! Now, whatever interpretation we wanted to give the expression "the sand of the sea", it can not give some idea of the four cats disorganized. They seem to be really great people. With this in mind, let's discuss chapter 38 of Ezekiel to see if it can give us interesting details about this subject and if there is the possibility of having to revise some of our beliefs. Â Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Who is Gog of Magog? Â " After many days you will pay attention to you. In the final part of the years you will come to the village [of people] brought back from the sword, gathered out of many peoples, to the mountains of Israel, which have been continuously a devastated place; yes, [a country] which was taken from the peoples, [where] they have dwelt safely, all of them - Ezekiel 38: 8 Â Why Almighty God should say, to His own people, the people whom He considered worthy to survive Armageddon, "After many years you will pay attention"? The writing also says ... "Will you come to the village [of people] brought back from the sword, gathered out of many peoples" ... But if these are the inhabitants of the "new world", are not also the people who were "brought back from the sword, gathered out of many peoples"? So, speaking of this people the same verse adds, "have lived safely, everyone." Why is this distinction made if during the millennial reign there will be peace and security in every corner of the earth? During the Millennial Kingdom, well after Armageddon, they do not dwell all safe? Gog of Magog, perhaps, has not dwelt safe until then? Â And you will be forced to rise. You will be like a storm. You will be like clouds to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many peoples with you " '- Ezekiel 38: 9 Â The verse says that will rise "to cover the land." Again we have to ask ... " What country?" During the Millennial Reign of Christ the world will still be divided into nations and countries? By the way, talking of "legions", we see a people organized and military invoice ; certainly not a bunch of people disorganized and improvised. Â The Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: 'And it must occur in that day that things will go up in the heart, and certainly will devise a malicious design; and you say, "I shall go up against the land of open countryside. I will go to those who do not bother, that dwell safely, all dwelling without walls, and do not have even bar and doors "- Ezekiel 38:10, 11 Â "I shall go up against the land of open country". What is the land of the open country? There are other countries that do not qualify as open country, or helpless? And why any other "countries" should bother to defend himself during the Millennial Kingdom? "I will go to those who do not bother, that dwell safely, all dwelling without walls, and do not have even bar and doors." So these people, to make these considerations, not dwelled safe? He had a few walls? He had bars and doors? And why a country should have walls, bars and doors if there are no wars, nor weapons, nor thieves or other criminals? Why you should equip the bars and doors if everyone will love intensely, with sincere and loyal love as brothers under one Father? Â It will be to take great spoil and to do much prey, to turn your hand on inhabited places devastated again and on a people gathered from the nations, [a people] who accumulates wealth and property, [those] who dwell at the center of the earth - Ezekiel 38:12 Â Let us assume that at some point towards the end of the Millennial Kingdom, reborn greed, desire for conquest and pride after a thousand years of oblivion. Who would be the "little people gathered from the nations"? If Armageddon has destroyed all the nations of the world , all those who now find themselves living in the Millennial Kingdom and then survived, are they not all those "collected by the nations"? But the scripture says that there is a people who organize to prey upon another people: a people gathered from the nations. Â Therefore prophesy, son of man, and you must say to Gog: 'The Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: "In that day, when my people Israel shall dwell safely, not [it] you know? - Ezekiel 38:14 Â This writing could leave to guess why Gog of Magog, until yesterday, was identified as Satan. Here Jehovah clearly identifies himself as the God of Israel ... but in the Millennial Kingdom should not be all "Israel"? In writing this Gog is clearly seen in opposition to Israel and then identify it as Satan seemed the sensible thing. Obviously it is "sensible" if we take for granted that at Armageddon are destroyed all the nations of the world, so all unbelievers and rebels. Simply stated: If the post-Armageddon world we live only deserving persons, the one who can get in opposition to God's people is Satan. Obviously this understanding seemed to coincide things but, as he was also treated in a more or less recent Tower Guard, created some really absurd paradoxes as we shall see later. Â And certainly you will be from your place, from the remotest parts of the north, you and many peoples with you, all mounted on horses, a great congregation, yes, a number of military forces - Ezekiel 38:15 Â "Several military forces"? Military improvise or made after a period of training? Previously, the verses 4:05, we read that these are all dressed "with perfect taste" and that "large shield and small shield". This leaves just understand that we are talking about a fully equipped and trained people for the war! Even assuming that these verses refer to the previous Gog Magog (what in life before Armageddon), describe this people, in verse 15, as a congregation of many military forces, suggests that they are not just newbies. So the logical question should be ... "Where you are trained, if they are all good of the Millennial Kingdom ? What weapons? For how long?" Â "And for sure will come up against My people Israel, like clouds to cover the land. It will happen in the final part of the days, and I will bring you against My land, that the nations may know Me when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes, or Gog "- Ezekiel 38:16 Â Again Jehovah identifies His people, Israel, making a contrast Gog of Magog. It also understands that this distinction is not born at a time when some of the people decide to attack another, but that Israel has existed for a number of years and lives with these other peoples or nations. Not only Jehovah himself says he will be sanctified among the nations. Which countries? Maybe the same ones that Satan will mislead when it comes out of the abyss? - Revelation 20: 2, 3 Â Reading Ezekiel 38: 17-20 we find other interesting details. In particular, we can isolate the point where it is said that "the mountains will actually be killed and the steep ways will have to fall, and even every wall will fall to the ground." We might ask what to depict these mountains and who, until the end of the Millennial Kingdom, still possess defensive walls that will fall to the ground. Â " ' And certainly I will call against him in all my mountainous region a sword,' it is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. 'The sword of each is against his own brother - Ezekiel 38:21 Â And even then we should ask where they took swords and where they forged these peaceful brothers, inhabitants of the New World. Â And certainly I will enter into judgment with him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain a downpour flood and hailstones, fire and brimstone upon him and upon his bands, and upon the many peoples that are with him. And certainly I magnify myself, and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will know that I am Jehovah '- Ezekiel 38:22, 23 Â The people taken from every nation at the end of the great tribulation, having seen, among other things, the destruction of any nation in opposition to Jehovah, they did not already know who is Jehovah? - Hebrews 8:11, 12 Reading just what it says, it does not seem that there is something that does not come back with our current understanding? In chapter 39 of Ezekiel you will find other interesting details. These details have forced the CD to revise the interpretation that Gog of Magog was Satan and is a fair reflection. How can, in fact, Satan, be given as food to the birds of prey? - Ezekiel 39: 4 How you can have a burial place on earth? - Ezekiel 39:11 Identify Gog of Magog as a "coalition of nations" is correct because you just simply read what is written without seeking hidden meanings - Ezekiel 38:15 However simply say that it is a coalition of nations opens up other questions, if you do not have the courage to review other fundamental interpretations. One of these is to understand that, while the wild beast, and all united in their fight against the Lamb will be destroyed at Armageddon, some nations will be allowed to continue to exist - Compare Daniel 7:11, 12 This means that after Armageddon , will remain something of the old world and there is a scriptural reason for this to happen. Â This makes it very easy to see how it is possible that during the Millennial Kingdom happen something like that. It makes us understand many other things such as when people will rush en mass, on their own initiative, to the mountain of Jehovah, "to the house of Jacob" - Isaiah 2: 2-4 It fully understand the meaning and order of the events described in 1 Corinthians 15:25 and many other things. Â From this brief examination we could see how it changes our visual horizon if only we strive to read the Scriptures without preconceptions. For understanding current attacking us are created forcer and really irreconcilable contradictions but allowing Scripture to flow freely will form a logical and coherent scenario. We can also see how, who has a prejudice, can not comprehend the obvious and we have seen many times in our preaching work. How many times we happened to listen to abstruse and philosophical arguments to say what the Scripture that says, maybe to prove doctrines such as the Trinity, hellfire, or things like that? Ahead of certain scriptural somersaults maybe we said ... "But how can you say such things! How can you not understand! Yet it is so clear!" The answer is often, prejudice and the inability to call into question their own beliefs. Obviously it is very easy to apply it to others. A little 'more difficult to apply it to ourselves. The possibility exists that we are becoming the modern Pharisees? And 'possible, pay for what we know, we have become the harder we get back on topic? Let's think about meditating on the history of Israel.
By Israeli Bar Avaddhon
In the Bible there are hundreds of references relating to the destruction of Babylon and unfaithful Israel.
There are also many parallels between Isreal and Babylon (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel ...).
Being accustomed to making parallels with Christianity and the world empire of false religion, every time we read "Israel will be destroyed!" we read, in effect, "Christianity will be destroyed!" and every time we read "Babylon will be destroyed!" we read "The world empire of false religion will be destroyed!".
Now the question is ... "If in a specific passage the Bible meant that Israel would be destroyed by intending to own Israel ... what would we find written?"
Evidently we would find written "Israel will be destroyed!"
In the end it is a matter of understanding whether, whenever we speak of the destruction of Babylon and / or Israel after the Lord's day, there is at least the possibility of referring to Israel, that is, modern Israel which is a literal nation.
What is the greatest counterfeiting of the people of God today?
Christendom or the modern nation of Israel?
Before 1948 this hypothesis and these questions would have made no sense.
Any hypothesis would have excluded Israel a priori simply because Israel did not exist.
Since May 1948, however, Israel exists and it is basically a matter of understanding three things.
1) See if it is possible that Babylon the Great is a nation
2) If so, see if Israel matches the description that makes the Bible
3) Compare with the current understanding and see which of the two subjects, in the light of the Scriptures and not of personal desires or ideas, are more likely to be.
Babylon the Great can be a nation?
Meanwhile, let us remember that Babylon the Great, throughout history, has been "identified" with many nations and for the most disparate reasons.
Imperial Rome, Papal Rome, USA, UK, USSR etc.
Many different people and religious groups have given different explanations but none of them has ever resisted the test of fire and that is the scrutiny of the Scriptures - I Thessalonians 5:21
What about us?
One of the explanations given in the publications of the Slave according to which Babylon the Great can not be a literal nation is the fact that "he commits fornication with the kings of the earth".
A strengthening of this statement would be the fact that both kings and merchants mourn its destruction.
Finally, it would not be a nation because it is said to mislead the entire inhabited earth through its "spiritual practices".
In Isaiah 23: 15-17 we speak of Tire as a "forgotten prostitute" and therefore, as such, "commits prostitution with all the kingdoms of the earth on the surface of the ground".
Tire was a nation, not a religion or a religious system - Romans 15.4
So a nation can be described, in the Bible, in the act of committing prostitution with all the kingdoms of the earth and remaining a nation.
Prostitution may have to do with commercial trade or acts of injustice and bloodshed and not necessarily with religion. - Naum 3: 1-4
In particular, Tire's prostitution has nothing to do with false religion because, if that were so, Jehovah would not have considered Â“saintÂ” his reward - Isaiah 23:18
"Prostitution" can have to do with the covenant and trust placed in other nations, as reported many times in the Bible when Israel and Judah proved to be unfaithful by allying with pagan nations.
It is clear, therefore, if this nation is compared to a prostitute the loss of this prostitute would have caused pain to her lovers (the nations with which she committed prostitution and the merchants who have enriched herself with it) just like ancient Israel " joy " for Tire's prostitution and this not because Tire was a religion or for the religion of Tire.
A king can "cry" for the loss of a political ally (therefore for the fall of a nation) and a great merchant can cry for the fall of a commercial ally (which can be big or small but certainly rich nation).
So the reasons that "Babylon the Great" can not be a nation because kings and merchants mourn his departure are not valid.
What can we say, however, of the strongest affirmation in reference to Babylon La Grande, that is, that "all nations have been misled by its spiritual practice"?
This statement in particular has led many to think that it was a religious empire (for many sects of Christianity Babylon the Great is Catholicism and for some Catholics it is even the Second Vatican Council).
First of all we must realize that all the empires of the past have resorted to spiritualistic practices and this is also true of modern so-called atheist empires.
Pharaoh opposed his "magic practitioners" to Moses and Nebuchadnezzar was practically surrounded - Exodus 7:11 - Daniel 2: 2
The same can be said of Assyria, Syria, Media Persia etc.
So if the Bible, speaking of a literal nation, said that "uses magic" or "divination practice", it would not say anything exceptional.
We also know from the study of the Scriptures that nations are governed by demons that mislead the entire inhabited earth and that during the wars not only human beings are involved - Daniel 10:13
Can we hypothesize that the demons have given particular power to a nation and that this has, today, "the kingdom over the kings of the earth"? - Revelation 17:18 see also Luke 4: 5-7
By comparing the Scriptures without preconceptions, it is not possible to exclude "Babylon the Great" among the nations.
"Does the literal people of modern Israel match the description that the Bible makes of Babylon the Great?"
In Revelation 17: 1, 2 we read that Babylon the Great "sits on many waters".
We know that the waters mean "peoples and crowds and nations and languages"
Israel "sits on many waters" because it is surrounded by many peoples and nations that can not stand it ("to sit on" can also mean against the will of the neighboring peoples). In Isaiah 8: 5-8 one speaks of the powerful Assyrian army as "devastating waters"; therefore the "waters" are not always a symbol of protection - Isaiah 8: 5-8
It was put there by the UN against the will of the many neighboring nations.
It also sits "on many waters" because his position is due to the nations that make up the United Nations (Babylon the Great also sits on the wild beast of scarlet color) that, besides having settled it where it is still, protect it militarily.
The armies of Assyria are compared to "devastating waters", so we can say that they also sit on many armies? - Revelation 17: 3, 16
it is also noteworthy that the nation of Israel is right in the "crossroads" of three continents: Europe, Africa, Asia.
If I wanted to find a literal nation located above "many waters" (ie peoples and nations and tribes and languages) both geographically and politically, no other nation would correspond better than the modern nation of Israel.
The harlot rides a beast.
In Revelation 17: 3 we read "And the angel brought me into the power of the spirit in a wilderness." And I saw a woman seated on a wild scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. "
The nation of Israel is already in a desert today and rides on the wild beast of scarlet color which, as we know, is the League or League of Nations ascended from the abyss with the name U.N.
Israel exists, thanks to the push of the Anglo-American empire, thanks and through the United Nations, since 1948.
Historical events prior to and following the creation of the state of Israel confirm that the Jewish people have ridden the scarlet-colored wild beast even before returning to being a nation (I invite you to do a research on Balfour and all the historical background before 1948).
Mother of all prostitutes.
Revelation 17: 4-5: "And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and she was adorned with gold and precious stone and pearls, and she had in her hand a golden cup full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her fornication. on his forehead was written a name, a mystery: 'Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth' ".
If we accept the possibility that a nation is compared to a prostitute (just like Tire), then the nation of Israel is the "mother of all prostitutes" because it has committed greater fornication than any other nation in the world.
How can we say it?
If the prostitute rides the scarlet-colored wild beast, which, as we know, is the League or League of Nations, is supposed to have committed fornication with all the nations adhering to the United Nations.
Indeed, its very existence as a nation is due to his political lovers so, to continue to exist, must commit prostitution in excess and continuously.
No other nation can compare itself to her as acts of prostitution because no other nation has the urgent need to please the UN to continue to exist.
it is also possible that in the Bible it is described as a prostitute because it is not a real "queen" but a forcing. It is an empire carved out of art for a prostitute.
The woman is also "dressed in purple and scarlet and adorned with gold and precious stone ..." so she is simply dressed like a queen but the purple and scarlet colors are still the colors of luxury and royal power and this would strengthen the idea that we are talking about a kingdom, a literal nation.
In the same way the beast that the prostitute rides is scarlet in color and the beast, as we know, is the League or Society of Nations (all members of the United Nations represent literal nations). The scarlet color, color of both the wild beast and the harlot, is significant.
Drunk with the blood of the saints.
The writing continues saying "And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints and of the witnesses of Jesus".
Israel has an enormous blood fault and Jesus referred to this very nation when he said: Â“so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel+ to the blood of ZechÂ·aÂ·ri?ah son of BarÂ·aÂ·chi?ah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altarÂ” - Matthew 23:35; Luke 11:50, 51
So Jesus himself identifies Israel, not another nation, as responsible for the payment of "all the right blood" (compare also the words of Stephen recorded in Acts 7: 51-53).
The book "Insight", under the heading "Babylon the Great", correctly points out that not all Christians were persecuted by the Pharisees and the Jews themselves have suffered, in turn, a great persecution.
However, even Abel was not killed by a Pharisee or even by any religious minister.
Moreover, the millions of deaths caused by the communist, atheist empire, could hardly be pointed to false religion.
Can we hypothesize that Jehovah and Jesus hold particularly responsible those who have "known God" and, despite this, commit unspeakable crimes?
The nation of Israel fits perfectly in this context. - Hosea 8: 2 - Amos 3: 2
It should also be said that the blood of "all those slaughtered on earth" is referring to the last war (which is yet to come) and therefore is saying that Israel will be the real behind-the-scenes cause of this war.
However, this last parat needs other explanations for which, for the moment, omit it.
Condolence for the end of Babylon.
Revelation 18: 9-14 says: Â“And the kings of the earth who committed sexual immorality* with her and lived with her in shameless luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her when they see the smoke from her burning. 10Â Â They will stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and say: Â‘Too bad, too bad, you great city,+ Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!Â’ 11Â Â Â“Also, the merchants of the earth are weeping and mourning over her, because there is no one to buy their full cargo anymore, 12Â Â a full cargo of gold, silver, precious stones, pearls, fine linen, purple cloth, silk, and scarlet cloth; and everything made from scented wood; and every sort of object made from ivory, and from precious wood, copper, iron, and marble; 13Â Â also cinnamon, Indian spice, incense, perfumed oil, frankincense, wine, olive oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle, sheep, horses, carriages, slaves, and human lives.* 14Â Â Yes, the fine fruit that you* desired has left you, and all the delicacies and the splendid things have vanished from you, never to be found againÂ”.
As we saw at the beginning, both the kings of the earth and the travelers traders suffer for the demise of their lover.
Unlike any other nation, the destruction of Israel would bring desperation and "misfortune" between rulers and traders all over the world.
Because the Jewish people are owners of the world's largest banks, almost all of the gold, oil, the largest multinationals and everything that can be imagined.
The largest world powers (including the US, USSR and China) have benefited from copious loans to wage war on other nations and to build massive and colossal structures (such as the Suez Canal).
Just do some research to find out how and how many owners of the world's largest banks have been involved in almost every wars of the last two centuries and probably far back in time.
The words of Revelation 18: 11-14 that speak of 'full of gold and silver and precious stone and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and each smelling wood and all sorts of ivory objects and all sorts of precious wood and copper and iron and marble, and cinnamon and Indian spice and incense and fragrant oil and olibanum and wine and olive oil and flour and wheat flour and cattle and sheep and horses and carriages and slaves and human souls' are significant.
Imagining the global economic consequences for the collapse of 80% of all the existing banks and therefore the immediate and simultaneous failure of thousands of companies spread all over the world ... one could conclude that a crisis of this size would not be reflected in all the history of man - Matthew 24:21
Really the kings of the earth and travelers traders around the world would be right to beat their chests, to mourn and cry, "Woe!"
"Get out of her, my people".
Revelation 18: 4 says:And I heard another voice out of heaven say: Â“Get out of her, my people,+ if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plaguesÂ”.
If Babylon the Great is the modern nation of Israel then it is easy to understand to whom this urgent appeal is addressed: to our dear brothers present in the nation of Israel who are also "a remnant to be saved".
If they stayed there, they would receive part of his wounds as a result of the United Nations' furious attack.
This possibility is to be evaluated very seriously.
This would also mean that the destruction of Jerusalem, occurred in 537 a.E.V. and then in 70 E.V. would have a further and definitive fulfillment. The third (Revelation 4: 8; 8:13; 16:13, 19 - Ezekiel 21:14).
Question two asked: "Does the literal people of modern Israel match the description that the Bible makes of Babylon the Great?
Whether we like it or not, and as much as it can constitute a "domino effect" on other interpretations, this is in harmony both with the secular history and with the Scriptures.
So the answer is yes.
Which of the two subjects, in the light of the Scriptures and not of desires or personal ideas, is more likely to be?
Honestly, the whole description that the Bible makes of Babylon the Great corresponds very well to false religion and so it is very difficult to understand if the Bible wants to point us to a literal nation or the false religion as a whole.
The shameless immorality, extreme violence, the desire for domination, spiritual prostitution, arrogance and presumption ... are all characteristics of the worldwide empire of false religion as well as of present-day Israel.
The clues, however, should be more than enough, if seen without preconceptions, to understand the subject.
As written at the beginning of this treatise, hundreds of parallels are found in the Bible between Babylon and unfaithful Israel.
Even the cup "full of disgusting things" from which the harlot gets inebriated recalls the utensils of Jehovah's temple.
The problem is to understand what we must understand when we read these parallels.
All of Jehovah's judgments, reported in the Scriptures, have fallen upon peoples and literal nations and even the wounds sent to the land of Egypt, which served to destroy / humiliate their false gods, however, had to fall upon a specific nation.
In the book "The prophecies of Isaiah" volume 1, page 202 paragraph 28 (Italian edition) reports Isaiah 19: 3 and we read ...
"Likewise, on the day of judgment, the false religion will be unable to save this corrupt system of things".
But if Egypt represents the world as a whole, we are already at Armageddon (in Isaiah 19: 2 Jehovah puts "Egyptian against Egyptian") and the world empire of false religion (if it is Babylon the Great) has already been destroyed .
Now, if the world empire of false religion has already been previously destroyed, in what sense will "people resort to worthless gods, to spellcasters and spirit mediums"?
Only a world still imbued with religion, after the destruction of Babylon the Great, could "resort to worthless gods".
The above could be in harmony with the writing of Zechariah 13: 4-6, which speaks of the "prophet" who will deny ever having been?
The Watchtower of 15 July 2015, under the heading "The beginning of the great tribulation", says ... "It seems therefore that even some members of the clergy will abandon their religious career and deny ever having been part of the false religion".
Yet if for the adherents of Babylon the Great enough to "change coat" to save their lives (which would make the majority of them, not having a true faith), one would not say that it was "torn and completely burned with fire". It is also difficult to imagine this "great mourning" since the majority of the clergy, especially that of Christianity, would still be alive after the destruction of Babylon the Great.
The book "Revelation", in chapter 19 paragraph 29 says ... "Neither the caverns of the literal mountains nor the political-commercial organizations comparable to the mountains will offer economic security or help of another kind".
However, even false worship in the Bible is related to "high places" for example in Ezekiel 6: 1-5 (high places that did not protect unfaithful Israelites from Jehovah's wrath).
Is it possible to hypothesize that on the day of Jehovah's wrath (hence after the Great Tribulation) human beings will seek protection in political, commercial and religious institutions?
If we accept the possibility that Babylon the Great is a literal place (and be modern Israel) we must consider that even the mountains, above which the woman sits, are literal mountains.
There is always talk of the seven world powers of biblical history but we never talk about the seven mountains.
We never talk about the seven mountains because the political powers, they say, are the seven mountains.
Yet the writing of Revelation 17 explains that there are seven kings ... and (joining, in my language, that is "and there are also") seven mountains and this conjunction could suggest that even though the mountains depict powers as we know , there are actually seven mountains as objects of similitude with the number of kings.
It would seem a literal clue useful for identifying Babylon the Great.
Now the question is ... Which and how many mountains are indicated in the Scriptures that were part of the Promised Land?
1) Mount Moria 2) Mount Zion 3) Mount of Olives 4) Gilboa 5) Gerizim 6) Ebal 7) Mount Tabor.
N.B. Mount Nebo and the others, also mentioned in the Scriptures, were part of the territory of Moab and Edom and are therefore excluded.
This parallel is simply impossible to do with the world empire of false religion.
Revelation 3:12 and other scriptures that are fulfilled after the Lord's day, which mention the New Jerusalem, seem to emphasize a distinction with Old Jerusalem.
In chap. 18 of Revelation, Babylon the Great is destroyed.
In chap 19: 7, 8 the marriage of the lamb is prepared, so ...
The prostitute dies as a bride and the marriage can finally begin.
Marriage takes place with the "New Jerusalem"; was the prostitute is maybe the "Old Jerusalem" that is the carnal, impure, disobedient, idolatrous? - I Corinthians 9: 6-8; 10:18 - Galatians 4: 26-29
I would like to point out to you that the book Revelation, besides having the symbols, also has contrasts.
For example you can see that the beast with two horns of lamb is set against the real Lamb.
The mark of the wild beast is set in contrast with the name engraved on the forehead that the 144,000 have - see Revelation 13:11, 16; 14: 1
Now in Revelation you will see that there is a pure woman who is the legitimate bride and then there is a woman who, on the contrary, is a prostitute.
So the question we should ask ourselves is: if Babylon the Great is a nation, which is the only nation in the whole world, that would have the qualifications to pass itself off as "legitimate bride" when, in reality, she prostitutes herself with other nations ? -
Babylon is also called "the great city" and the only biblical reference is Nineveh, the "city of bloodshed".
This seems to be in harmony with the fact that Babylon is drunk with the blood of saints, prophets and everyone.
However, in Jeremiah chap. 22 Jehovah condemns Judah, which is the city of Sallum and Ioiachim, and people call this city "the great city".
Thus, even the city that once belonged to Jehovah is called the "great city".
Of the two clothed witnesses described in chapter 11 of Revelation it is said that, once killed, "their corpses will be on the wide street of the great city which in spiritual sense is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was put to the stake "- Revelation 11: 8
In which "great city" did the Lord Jesus have been killed?
Finally we could ask ourselves why, the writer of Revelation, after having seen frightful wild beasts, incredible celestial visions both beautiful and terrifying, thundering declarations and many other things, only at the sight of the woman he is "marvels of great wonder" - Revelation 17: 6 , 7
Could it have "marveled of great wonder" for having seen its own people and its own nation (which at the time of the writing of Revelation no longer existed)?
When in 70 E.V. the first Christians received the command to "flee to the mountains" in view of the destruction that would have occurred through the "disgusting thing" (represented at the time by the Roman Empire) they understood it as "separating from Judaism" or this was a consequence natural of the Teacher's teachings? Did not they understand it as literally to get out of the city?
Jeremiah 25:10, 11 and Revelation 18:22, 23 are very similar to each other, yet Jeremiah speaks of Israel while Revelation speaks of Babylon the Great.
In Revelation 18: 5-8 it is said that "God has remembered his acts of injustice".
Why did God "remember"?
False religion has not always done evil, in 6,000 history, without stopping a moment since the days of Nimrod?
Or, if Babylon were "the world", did God forget the actions of the world?
Could it not be because "Babylon" has not existed for many years, as a nation, but appears again after the "Lord's Day" by another name?
In Revelation 16: 16-21 we are now in Armageddon, the great city is divided into three parts, the nations fall and Babylon "was remembered".
So Babylon is related to the fall of other nations as if it were a "special" nation, something to remember, but still a nation.
Which, among all the nations of the earth, could it be considered "special" by Jehovah God?
Could the golden cup full of "disgusting things" held in the hands of the great harlot remember the utensils of the temple of God? - Compare Daniel 5: 1-4
According to the explanation of the book "Revelation: its climax" it is appropriate that the great harlot sit on the wild beast of scarlet color because, the false religion, has always had power over the kings of the earth even coming to name and oust them.
We know that the League or League of Nations also has representatives as "old nations" mentioned in the bible as Rome, Media-Persia and others but it would not have been more logical to see the "great whore" ride the first wild beast and that which ascends from the sea, since the false religion exists since the days of Nimrod?
Instead the great harlot sits on that beast that "was, but is not, and is about to ascend from the abyss, and will go into destruction" - Revelation 17: 8a
What rode the world empire of false religion (or Rome, or the world) when the beast was not?
As has been pointed out, in the Bible Israel is compared to a wife and Jehovah to the marital owner.
When it showed itself unfaithful, allying itself with other nations and mixing with the false adoration, Israel became "infidel" and even "prostitute".
Christianity claims to serve God but, in reality, prostitutes itself with the nations and with every false doctrine of pagan origin.
However, if Babylon the Great is the world empire of false religion (and therefore also includes religions such as Buddhism, Shintoism, Hinduism, tribal religions, etc.), why is it considered, as a whole, a prostitute?
Jehovah has never identified himself as the "marital owner" of nations like Ammon, Moab, Egypt, or others (not even in Rome or the world).
So if we applied the concept of prostitution exclusively in the spiritual-religious (or politic) sense, it would seem that this infamous prostitute is exclusively Christianity.
Throughout the entire Bible, what is the only nation that Jehovah considers responsible for his prostitution? - Amos 3: 1, 2
By JW Insider
Sometimes, the Watchtower publications have pointed back to a time when the Watchtower predicted World War One (WWI) in 1914 and then also predicted that the United Nations would rise up to replace the League of Nations. These two "predictions" have even been paired together and presented nearly back-to-back in our publications. They were even brought up again at the 2014 convention and the 2009 convention. The reason the Watchtower has reviewed these two ideas from our history is probably already obvious and clear, and it has been clearly stated, too.
One of the most recent reviews of the history of Jehovah's Witnesses contains very similar claims, and is found in one of the videos, now also available on tv.jw.org:
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. These online transcripts appear fairly accurate:
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Here is the relevant part about 1914:
—Geoffrey W. JacksonÂ—
They realized that 1914 had a significance, Â—Gerrit LÃ¶schÂ—
When World War I broke out in July, they felt vindicated and it strengthened their faith in the Bible, and in JehovahÂ’s prophetic Word. Also, it enhanced their trust that Jehovah was using Brother Russell and his friends to explain truth to others. Â—Anthony Morris IIIÂ—
Just looking at the sign of the times that Jesus told us to look at is enough, but it's still significant that they could pinpoint that year. That's phenomenal. Here is the relevant part about the UN and League of Nations:
. . . And soon, they would boldly proclaim a Bible prophecy that pointed to the outcome of that war. Â—Â—Chapter 4: "Taught By Jehovah"Â—Â—
The year was 1941. Having taken the lead for 25 momentous years, J. F. Rutherford had become seriously ill and was about to make his final public appearance. . . . The second World War was raging. Some felt that these events could lead directly into Armageddon. In spite of this, in 1942, Nathan H. KnorrÂ—the one next appointed to take the lead among Jehovah's WitnessesÂ—spoke at a convention about a Bible prophecy that indicated that significant events had to occur first. Â—Knorr (reenactment)Â—
This international war is not 'the battle of the great day of God Almighty.' Before Armageddon comes, the Scriptures show, a peace must come. Â—John WischukÂ—
There was no peace on the horizon, and yet we said, "PeaceÂ—Can It Last?" Â—NarratorÂ—
Knorr centered attention on Revelation 17:8, which indicates that a figurative wild beast would come into existence, would cease to exist, but then would come back to life. Knorr then drew his listeners' attention to the defunct League of Nations. Â—Knorr (reenactment)Â—
The League is in effect in a state of suspended animation and needs to be revived if it is ever to live again. It has gone into the abyss of inaction and ineffectiveness. It "is not." Will the League remain in the pit? Again the Word of God gives answer: The association of worldly nations will rise again. Â—NarratorÂ—
That association did rise again three years later as the United Nations. Â—Anthony Morris IIIÂ—
They didn't know it was going to be called the United Nations, and we don't make that claim. But they knew it was coming out. Â
[Should be noted that Morris is claiming something that they "KNEW" in advance but he is also correcting a common claim that not only did Knorr predict the rise of the League of Nations three years ahead of time, but that he even used the term "United Nations." As one person writes on a website "Knorr prophesied in 1942 that the League of Nations would rise out of the abyss. Knorr used the expression 'United Nations.' How could he have known the exact name of the new incarnation, when it wasn't established until 1945?"]
Witnesses got these ideas about a correctly predicted prophecy from an article published a few years later under Knorr's administration in 1960. These quotes should be compared with the actual transcript of the speech Knorr made on September 20, 1942, which was made available as a booklet, and can be found here:
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. The July 15, 1960 Watchtower, page 444, said this:
"In 1942 the Â“faithful and discreet slaveÂ” guided by JehovahÂ’s unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up." You can also see a reference to the 1942 event in the Revelation book (p.248) on WOL at jw.org:
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. You can also read the following about it in the April 15, 1989 Watchtower, p.14
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. By divine providence, JehovahÂ’s Witnesses received enlightenment on that mystery in 1942. . . . Nathan H.Â Knorr, president of the Watch Tower Society, gave the public talk, Â“PeaceÂ—Can It Last?Â” Therein he reviewed Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , . . . . Was that Bible-based forecast fulfilled? Truly it was! In 1945 the international Â“wild beastÂ” emerged from its abyss of inactivity as the United Nations. See also the Kingdom Come bookÂ
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. and and interesting version of events found in a 1981 Watchtower about why this "insight" was given Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. The Proclaimers book states it like this on page 192-3 (Â
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) This time, it involved the United Nations, successor to the League. While World WarÂ II was still under way, in 1942, JehovahÂ’s Witnesses had already discerned from the Bible, at Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , that the world peace organization would rise again, also that it would fail to bring lasting peace. This was explained by N.Â H.Â Knorr, then president of the Watch Tower Society, in the convention discourse Â“PeaceÂ—Can It Last?Â” Boldly JehovahÂ’s Witnesses proclaimed that view of the developing world situation. In 1993 the idea was stated as follows:
Â“The Disgusting ThingÂ” 12,Â 13. What was Â“the disgusting thing,Â” andÂ—as foreseen by the faithful and discreet slaveÂ—when and how was it reestablished? 12 When the end of the second world war was in sight, there was another development. Â“They will certainly put in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation.Â” (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) This Â“disgusting thing,Â” which Jesus also mentioned, had already been recognized as the League of Nations, the scarlet-colored wild beast that according to Revelation went into the abyss. (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ; see Light, Book Two, pageÂ 94.) It did this when World WarÂ II broke out. However, at the New World Theocratic Assembly of JehovahÂ’s Witnesses in 1942, Nathan H.Â Knorr, third president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, discussed the prophecy of Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. and warned that the beast would rise again from the abyss. 13 History bore out the truth of his words. Between August and OctoberÂ 1944, at Dumbarton Oaks in the United States, work was begun on the charter of what would be called the United Nations. The charter was adopted by 51 nations, including the former Soviet Union, and when it came into force on OctoberÂ 24, 1945, the defunct League of Nations in effect came out of the abyss. There are several more examples, but this should suffice. I am struck by how often the point is emphasized that these were Knorr's words, "his words" and that they were a Bible-based forecast "foreseen" and "discerned" and "known" in advance through "divine providence" and "enlightenment" and men being "guided by Jehovah's unerring spirit." This is an odd focus on the insights and discernment of men. These expressions are also dangerously presumptuous in that they are so often applied to the one or two times when it seems something was foreseen correctly, but there is no balanced way of discussing the reasons that literally dozens of predictions were made incorrectly and have been dropped as "old light."
But, as many Witnesses already know, there is something even deeper that is wrong with these claims of accuracy in discernment. The claims are inaccurate! It turns out that this was not really even predicted in advance. A close look at the original transcript of Knorr's talk actually solves the mystery of why he used the term United Nations in his speech. It's because he gave the speech AFTER official work on the United Nations had already begun.
By Guest Kurt
August Ludwig von Schlözer
Â“Foolish is the man who never reads a newspaper; even more foolish is the man who believes what he reads just because it is in the newspaper.Â”Â—August von SchlÃ¶zer, German historian and journalist of the late 18thÂ century.
IN ONE survey several thousand people in Britain and France were asked how much trust they placed in each of 13 institutions. The press came in last, even after politics and big business. In the United States, most readers still say they believe their newspaper. But surveys by the Pew Research Center show that the percentage of believers has declined.
There is often justification for skepticism, especially when what is said involves the national interests of the country in which a newspaper is printed. What happens then? Truth is often sacrificed. As Arthur Ponsonby, an English statesman of the 20th century, once noted: Â“When war is declared, Truth is the first casualty.Â”
Even when war hasnÂ’t been declared, it is wise to examine the news with healthy skepticism. Â“Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word,Â” observes a Bible proverb, Â“but the shrewd one considers his steps.Â” (Proverbs 14:15) If you exercise appropriate caution, the newspaper can generally satisfy your appetite for the news that you need.
The Importance of the News
The news media is important today because it helps us keep up with what is going on in the world. And to do so is vital. Why? Because much of what is happening today was foretold by the greatest prophet who ever lived, Jesus Christ. When asked about the end of this system of things, he said that the time of the end would be marked by wars, an increase in lawlessness, food shortages, pestilences, earthquakes, and other related events.Â—Matthew 24:3-14; Luke 21:7-11.
The Bible also says: Â“In the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here.Â” This prophecy adds that during these Â“last days,Â” people would be Â“lovers of themselves, lovers of money,Â” and Â“disobedient to parents.Â” They would have Â“no natural affectionÂ” and would be Â“without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God.Â”Â—2 Timothy 3:1-5.
No doubt you see this Bible prophecy being fulfilled in your own community. And what is occurring worldwideÂ—as reported in newspapersÂ—only serves to confirm the accuracy of Bible prophecies. Does this mean that we can believe everything we read in the newspaper? No, even those dedicated to the newspaper business express the need for caution.
Understand the Challenges
Everybody makes mistakes, even the most honest and skilled professionals. Â“In my three years as a free-lance fact-checker,Â” Ariel Hart wrote in the Columbia Journalism Review, Â“I have never checked a story that had no mistakes, whether five pages long or two paragraphs.Â” She cites such examples as Â“a year slightly off; old data; misspellings; widely reported information taken from secondary sources, but wrong.Â”
Journalists must contend with unreliable news sources. At times, hoaxes are fed to the press. In 1999 a prankster planted a fake news story about Â“a cemetery amusement park,Â” backing it up with an eye-catching Web site of a phony development company and a phone line for interviews, which the deceiver used to pose as a company spokesman. The Associated Press wire service failed to detect the ruse, whereupon many daily papers in the United States carried the story. The secret of successful hoaxes is said to be Â“a provocative story with great visuals thatÂ’s outrageous yet plausible.Â”
Even well-intentioned journalists donÂ’t always get the story right. Â“Journalists usually work at a quick pace,Â” explains a writer in Poland. Â“Newspapers are racing against one another. Each one wants to be the first to publish the news. For that reason many of us, although willing, are not able to write a well-researched article.Â”
Pressures to Conform
Freedom of the Press 2003Â—A Global Survey of Media Independence rated 115 of 193 countries as either not free or only partly free. However, subtle manipulation of the news may occur even in countries that enjoy freedom of the press.
At times, some journalists are simply excluded from receiving important information, while others who toe the line receive exclusive interviews and invitations to accompany politicians on their travels. Revenue from advertisers can also influence reporting. Â“The advertiser may threaten to withdraw profitable ads if the editor publishes anything negative about the advertiser,Â” a Polish journalist noted. And a copyreader at a Japanese newspaper cautioned, Â“Keep in mind that an objective news report is very difficult to achieve.Â”
Â‘Well, then,Â’ you may ask, Â‘if professional journalists face such problems in producing credible copy, how is the reader to know what to believe?Â’
A Balanced View Is Needed
Clearly, discernment is needed. Â“Does not the ear itself test out words as the palate tastes food?Â” asked the patriarch Job. (Job 12:11) The reader needs to examine carefully what is written to see if it has the ring of truth. He wisely, as it were, tests and chooses what is right. A first-century disciple of Jesus Christ wrote approvingly of those who listened to the apostle Paul but then checked PaulÂ’s sources to verify the truth of what he taught.Â—Acts 17:11; 1 Thessalonians 5:21.
Similarly, a newspaper reader may ask himself such questions as: What is the background of the writer? What are his prejudices? Does the story cite hard facts that others can check? Who might have an interest in distorting the truth? Wisely, the reader may check different sources for verification. He may also discuss what he reads with others. Â“He that is walking with wise persons will become wise,Â” a Bible proverb observes.Â—Proverbs 13:20.
At the same time, donÂ’t expect perfection. As we have seen, various factors prevent newspapers from being entirely objective. Still, they can help you to stay informed about whatÂ’s going on in the world. It is important to keep up-to-date, for Jesus, when speaking of the very times in which we live, urged: Â“Keep awake.Â” (Mark 13:33) Your newspaper can help you do so, even while you make allowances for its limitations.
WHEN THE PRESS REFLECTS BIAS
Misrepresentation in the news is often the result of hasty reporting or misinformation. Yet, such well-intentioned stories can quickly spread serious falsehoods. On the other hand, sometimes efforts to misinform are deliberate, as was true in Nazi Germany when lies were spread about people of certain races and religions.
Consider the effect of a thinly veiled smear campaign launched not long ago during a human rights case in Moscow, Russia. Â“When three girls committed suicide in Moscow,Â” reported The Globe and Mail newspaper of Toronto, Canada, Â“the Russian media immediately suggested they were fanatical followers of the JehovahÂ’s Witnesses.Â”
Such news stories appeared on February 9, 1999, the day that a civil court resumed a trial aimed at banning JehovahÂ’s Witnesses in the city of Moscow. Geoffrey York of The Globe and Mail Moscow Bureau reported: Â“Police later admitted the girls had nothing to do with the religious sect. But by then a Moscow television channel had already launched a new assault on the sect, telling viewers that the JehovahÂ’s Witnesses had collaborated with Adolf Hitler in Nazi GermanyÂ—despite historical evidence that thousands of their members were victims of the Nazi death camps.Â”
As a result, in the minds of many of the misinformed and possibly fearful public, JehovahÂ’s Witnesses were either a suicidal cult or Nazi collaborators!
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By Israeli Bar Avaddhon
"After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible and unusually strong. And it had teeth of iron, big ones. It devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped what was left with his feet. And it was something different from all the [other] beasts that were before it, and had ten horns "- Daniel 7: 7 Â "I beheld then because of the sound of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld till the beast was slain and his body was destroyed and it was given to the burning fire "- Daniel 7:11 Â Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Â This treatment has the objective to correctly identify not only the beast of Daniel's vision but also the period of prophecy in connection with his murder. This will be a fundamental prophecy. Err the reference period, as was the case within Christianity, inevitably leads to straining and inconsistencies. What some say about this beast and how it should interest us personally? Since the dreadful and terrible beast makes its appearance after the leopard-like beast (Daniel 7: 6), which we know to be the Macedonian o greco empire, it must be the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire, in fact, as we have seen in several previous articles, takes the place of Greece on the world stage. Since we do not see other animals that was, it concludes Roma to be "killed" and this creates a domino effect on many subsequent interpretations. The prophecy would end the fall of Rome (Roma whom?), The Son of man of whom we read in the following verses is vested with the authority in the first century (see footnotes) and the book of Revelation, written before 70 EV, actually speak of the destruction of Jerusalem in the first century and so on. As a result of the fact that everything would be fulfilled by the fall of the Roman Empire, the beasts that you give a "life extension" for a time and a season, would the nations of today. I have simplified: there would be many other things but this is enough to understand how such an interpretation can change much our view of things. Leaving aside the various contradictions and unanswered questions that this interpretation creates, we must see if there is really a credible supporting them with scriptures. As we have done so far, the only reliable modus operandi is the comparison of records and respect for the authority of God's Word. Let us first of all that the prophet's attention is captured by this beast and in particular by its horns - Daniel 7: 8 This is a key aspect of the vision. We have already discussed the meaning of the horns in a previous article but now we will see it from another point of view. We take as an example the Macedonian Empire because there is more than ever useful to acquire the right key to the vision. We know that this empire represented by the goat, when he was in command of Alessandro Magno, was depicted with a "notable horn" - Daniel 8: 5 After the death of Alessandro Magno, when the empire was divided among four of his generals, the same goat is described as having "four horns" - Daniel 8: 8 We can see immediately a strangeness . The original empire is actually divided into four smaller empires and yet there is always only one goat. Why? Why do not you see four different beasts? Let's keep in mind these questions to answer later. Now let's speculate. If the goat, described by Daniel had been shot down in the time that he had "the great horn", what period of time would refer the vision and what territory would understand? The answer is simple. If the goat was shot down at the time of the great horn, this would take place during the rule of Alessandro Magno (between 356 and 323 BCE) on the only his vast empire. If the goat in Daniel, however, was shot down in the time when he had four horns, what period and what territory would embrace? The answer becomes more interesting. In this case, the empire is divided into four and see the goat fall would mean the defeat of all four generals and their occupied territories. In the vision, however, he would fall one beast. From these considerations we understand that the beast represents an empire, but the horns are the powers that share or compete for the domain or the territory of that empire - Compare Revelation 17:12; Daniel 11:39 These horns can be allied, as in the case Medo-Persian empire, but they can also fight against each other as seen for example in Daniel 7: 8 When an empire is divided, because it is seen as other horns on the beast itself and not as the beasts? Evidently because they emphasize from original empire. The horns present in the same beast tells us that all those powers have arisen from the same original empire. Having all the same origin, we could say that are "unrelated" to each other. The Medes and the Persians, in fact, had many differences but also many things in common. With this in mind, we can begin to understand the meaning of the vision of the fourth and final beast seen by Daniel. As we explained in another article, previous empires are seen "hornless" because they do not have power or are not dominant in the vision of the reference time . Understanding the vision reference time is very important. This allows us to establish that at the time that Daniel has the vision, the dreadful and terrible beast is already divided into various powers. What does this mean? The empire is rising after the Macedonian Roma and on this there is very little to discuss as confirmed by the dream of the statue of Nebuchadnezzar - Daniel 2:39, 40 So the first part of the hypothesis is correct: the beast that Daniel sees is Rome. That said, however, we must focus on the horns as did Daniel himself. If the beast has ten horns, in harmony with what we have seen so far, it follows that the original Empire (Roma) is already divided into an unknown number of powers. This, by itself, drop the hypothesis that Rome has to be "killed" as well as the time in which it would fulfill the prophecy. From these ten horns, at some point in history, check yet another horn that is what speaks great things (Daniel 7:11); what is the time in which the animal is killed . In Rome there is only the origin. In simple words the prophecy is saying that the latter horn, whatever the time of fulfillment, is one of the many powers born of ancient Rome. This beast is the final, there are no other - Daniel 7:17 So, since we should not expect the appearance of other animals, it is clear that his killing is done in the end time. This king is the same which is discussed below and "grandiose words" that pronounces we can find in Daniel 11: 36-38 From the point of view of God, since this king will become an object of worship for many people, it pronunciation "grand words", that is exaggerated and completely out of place for a human being or human military power - Compare Revelation 13: 3-6 Intending to correct the vision we need not climb over backwards in an attempt to demonstrate that there is talk of two kings and two different times because the similarities are obvious. Obvious for those who read the scriptures without trying to defend, at all costs, his own idea. This means that what you read in the following verses, which the Son of man who is given dominion, authority and kingdom, is fulfilled in the end time. This also leads us to realize what it is actually killing the beast and the fact that being thrown "into the burning fire." This expression can only bring our minds to the "lake of fire" reported at Revelation 19:20 The lake of fire is a place from which there is no return and therefore you would expect, if this had happened in Rome, that there was no longer any trace of this empire. Instead Europe and much of Asia and Africa is full of Roman remains, aqueducts from the statues the ancient buildings. This does not give precisely the idea that was thrown into the "burning fire", is not it? Instead of the last dominant empire on earth, as described in Revelation, it says that the whole beast will be cast into the lake of fire. Besides, this is an action that can only make the Almighty God and His Son Christ, not an invading empire. Unless speculate that the fall of Rome intervened personally God, there is no way to "harmonize" this expression. Rome, in fact, never really died and was never really replaced. The social fabric is wore out, and this allowed many people simply "get" and divide it but was never really defeated in battle. He fell under his vices and under its own weight. The vision speaks of the beast that is not killed except in time when this remarkable horn appears. As we saw in the previous article, this horn is the last king of the north on the world stage, namely Russia. It goes without saying that this explanation, as we have already seen, a wonderful window opens in verse 12. The explanation that would apply all this to the fall of Rome, can not explain why, between kingdoms currently present (those to which a prolongation of life in our days) still exists Rome and even all the nations would be allowed that were exclusively owned by Rome. If Rome is burned in the blazing fire and the other allows himself a "life extension", should exist Iran (Persia), Iraq (Babylon) and Greece ... but should not exist Italy (the when Rome is still the capital), should not exist France nor Germany nor Spain and so on. Instead it appears that this extension of life a little 'at all is granted. If instead the beast is killed at Armageddon, it is clear that the other animals are given a life extension for "a time and a season" after the judgment of Armageddon. This allowed us to sensibly understand how he can "check" this Gog of Magog full Millennial Kingdom. We just carefully observe, then, that world events, without being distracted by explanations forced and unscriptural, as we await the fulfillment of the angel's following words recorded in Daniel 7:18: "But the saints of the Supreme receive the kingdom, and take possession of indefinitely kingdom, even indefinitely to times indefinite '- see also Revelation 20: 4 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Footnotes * This interpretation asserts that the Son of man receives the kingdom in the first century to the fact that Jerusalem was under Roman rule (cf. Matthew 28:18), but obviously does not explain why, according to the order written by Daniel, this does not happen the fall of Rome. Reading Daniel 7: 11-14 we understand that the enthronement of the Son of Man takes place after the killing of this beast and, therefore, the enthronement could not take place in the first century since, at that time, Rome was well far from being "killed." That if we do not play the usual chronological order is not in the book. However, it should be argued that when considering the order of the beasts as chronological (ie the order of the appearance of empires is chronologically Correctly or ) can not be determined in an arbitrary way that the next part is not written chronologically. What it is written in chronological order it is also evident from the words of Daniel that says, more than once, "I continued watching ..." - Daniel 7: 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13 The writing of Matthew 28:18 does not prove that he began to reign in the first century (if not on the Christian congregation) because there is a difference between taking power legally and take it effectively. If Christ had taken power in effect in the first century, it would mean that the world would no longer be ruled by Satan since then. But sixty years after these words of the Lord, the apostolo Giovanni said "the whole world lies in the power of the wicked" - 1 John 5:19 ** You do not even understand the "what Rome" would be talking about the prophecy since this empire was split in two in 395 EV The beast can not be considered "killed" at the time of his division. The Eastern Empire fell in 476 EV while that of the West in 1453 with the fall of Constantinople. The beast can not be considered to be "killed" in 476 since a portion of it continued to exist and therefore in theory of Christ the enthronement event would occur after 1453. However even 1453 can be considered the date of the beast dsell'uccisione for the reasons spiegat the in this article. *** On the same line of this false interpretation of "Babylon the Great" Roma would be that would be killed (it is not clear by whom) to his downfall. To support this hypothesis is often referred to "the seven hills of Rome" and many flights of fancy to determine who would be the seven most important king of Rome - compares Revelation 17: 9 **** "Finally," but not really seen that the inconsistencies are many, you can not explain for what reason the writing says "there are four kings that will rise from the earth" (Daniel 7:17) meaning it clear that there would have been only the most four kings , not one more. The explanation would like the angel speaks to Daniel, the four powers, but that would not have all the powers that would arise on earth. The vision, in short, get to a certain point but not to the time of the end - Look instead Daniel 7:18 Â Â
By Guest Nicole
SOUTHBRIDGE - People may see Randy Turk, 40, and his wife, Lisa, 43, dressed in their Sunday best any day of the week knocking on doors in their hometown of Southbridge or other communities. The couple, married nearly 20 years, isn’t selling anything during the 70 hours a month they walk the pavement and try to meet with residents. Mr. Turk says they are trying to “draw people closer to God.”
Mr. Turk has been a Jehovah’s Witness for 27 years, one of more than 8 million followers of the religion worldwide.
To support their volunteer ministry work, the couple work as sales representatives for Nature’s Best Oils. Mr. Turk also does consulting work for an auto parts manufacturing company in Michigan.
How is your religion different from other Christian religions?
“As Christians, we closely follow the teachings and actions of Jesus Christ. We believe that he is the key to salvation. We also believe in using God’s personal name, Jehovah. We appreciate that God’s kingdom is a real government that will bring about positive changes to the earth. We are focused on upholding the teachings of the Bible rather than religious traditions.”
Why do you go door to door?
“I love talking with my neighbors. Today, people are stressed. Some have even lost hope. Our desire is to share a positive message with people from the Bible. We strive to follow the example Jesus set in his ministry. His preaching work was motivated out of love. Our motive is the same.
“Our preaching efforts are not just in Worcester County. Jehovah’s Witnesses speak to people about the Bible in over 240 lands throughout the world. Our Bible-based literature is translated in hundreds of different languages. All around the globe, Jehovah’s Witnesses work very hard to share the Bible’s hope for a grand future.”
What response do you get from people?
“Most people are very friendly. Some prefer that we are brief and get to the point. Since we appreciate their time, we try to share an encouraging thought in just a few minutes.
“In Worcester County, there are many people who respond to our message in a different language. If I cannot communicate with them, I direct them to our website, jw.org. It is available in over 900 languages.
“Many people are interested in what the Bible has to say. Most readers of our Bible-based literature are not even Jehovah’s Witnesses. Around the world, there are millions of people who study the Bible with us. Since people are busy, some may have only 15 minutes a week to study the Bible. We are more than happy to visit at a time and place convenient for them.”
How would you like people to respond to you if they are not interested?
“We realize that most people have their own beliefs and that not everyone is interested in our message. If they are not interested, they can kindly inform us. However, I always appreciate being given a few minutes to share something positive from the Bible.”
How are Kingdom Halls different from other churches?
“Kingdom Halls are a great place to worship God. It is a place where Bible study programs and lectures are held each week. All meetings begin and end with song and prayer. On Sundays, there is a 30-minute Bible discourse designed for the general public. After that, there is a question-and-answer discussion. Participation is always voluntary. No collections are ever taken. You can go to any Kingdom Hall and receive the same program of Bible instruction. I enjoy up-building association and the opportunity to praise God at the local Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
Can anyone attend a service?
“Everyone is invited to attend. Every meeting is open to the public. Families are invited to attend and learn together. People are not obligated to join or become a member. I encourage everyone to experience the happiness and love found at the Kingdom Hall.”
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By Outta Here
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By Micael Frost
How does the ban on JW in Russia fit into our current belief? Since many years WT have explained that the attack on Jehovahs people should occur AFTER 1. Proclamation of Peace and Security and 2. The fall of Babylon the Great.
Also in WT 2015 (May 15 p. 29-30) it says that "it seems to be in harmony with ...(Ezek 38: 6,15)...that this coalition will be led by the figurative “king of the north” (text sequence edited by me) .
Can we expect new light on this or does someone now a different explanation?
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By James Thomas Rook Jr.
The thought occurred to me that some might be interested in EXPERIMENTING with a new line of Witnessing, not to replace anything that we might be doing now, but to "widen out" to niche' audiences. There is a communications network that exists available to you ... text only, back from the 1990s when the Internet was first formed, and it is still going strong today ,,,, although it is supplanted or even overtaken by the likes of Facebook or Twitter, or whatever else has evolved.
Conversations I have had in 1997 STILL show up on the Internet, and over the years have seen the Truth handled aright change MANY opinions about TRUE Christianity ..... but it requires flexibility, and humor to try and plant some seeds of Truth on the baked hard-scrabble clay that Christendom has cooked up over the centuries .... It's called the "Internet Relay Chat" network, or IRC., and when sick, I could spend 60 to 70 hours a month in HIGHLY EFFECTIVE Witnessing ... everybody is home, audiences of perhaps 50 people at a time, and no wasted time, or even gas money.
Without further adieu, I will post a little sample I did when I had about ten minutes to spare ... if there is any Interest, I will give you more details .....
Please realize there can be six to 20 people "talking" at the same time, so following is an acquired skill ....
My Screen Name is "Greylenseman"
* Now talking in #christiandebate
* Topic is 'Deu31:6 Be strong and of good courage, do not fear or be in dread of them: for it is the LORD your God who goes with you; he will not fail you or forsake you."'
* Set by VirtualPreacheremail@example.com on Thu Feb 02 19:58:51 2017
#christiandebate url is www.acrity.org
* BibleBot sets mode: +v Greylenseman
<+dani_> ello Greylenseman
<+Greylenseman> iya dani
<+Greylenseman> why up so early?
<+mugzZzZz> Heads are rollinghttp://www.cnn.com/2017/02/17/politics/tillerson-state-department-shakeup/ at the State Department - The news sent shock waves through the agency and has left career officials on edge -
* mugzZzZz is now known as mugz
<+mugz> more draining of the swamp
<+mugz> Heads are rolling at the State Department Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
* +mugz sips more coffee
<+Greylenseman> drill baby, drill!
<+mugz> "careful with that ax Eugine"
<+Greylenseman> I have NEVER had a desire to go to Heaven.
<+dani_> do you have a mental connection with God ?
<+dani_> does god read your mind Greylenseman ?
<+dani_> Moshe`, does God read your mind?
<+thehorror> I'd hate to go to heaven and not see my friends and family
<+Greylenseman> I hope so ... but God's ORIGINAL plan was a physical Universe filled with the children of DNA ... that has NOT changed.
<@Ross> those who dont goto heaven dont go by their choice
<@Ross> oroville dam residents havce to evacuate again
<+Greylenseman> thehorror: or meet some reelatives that were miscarriages, and abortions ...
<+Greylenseman> who, IF they grew up, would never meet puppies.
<+Greylenseman> OH YEAH, little white cloud shapes ....
<+Greylenseman> ...like foggy tribbles ...
* welloktheniguess (~firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #christiandebate
* BibleBot sets mode: +v welloktheniguess
* +K83K (~MADE-IN83@vlan-132-19-116.comnet.bg) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
<+Greylenseman> nothing like living in an evironment with aborted fetuses that never grow up, playing with foggy tribbles.
<+Greylenseman> ... and then there is the omnipresent HARP music.....
<+Greylenseman> could be worse .... could be accordians!
<+dani_> that's crazy Greylenseman
<+Greylenseman> yeas it IS ... that is the whole point.
<+dani_> but the alternative isnt much less crazy
* +welloktheniguess (~email@example.com) Quit (Quit: welloktheniguess)
* K83K (~MADE-IN83@vlan-132-19-116.comnet.bg) has joined #ChristianDebate
* BibleBot sets mode: +v K83K
<+Greylenseman> there are inly two alternatives..... just plain ordinary death ... whic we all know is the case ...irregardless of our claimed theology, or being SO HOLY that God KNOWS he can give you immortality without ever later having to kill you for treason. Hell is a fantasy designed to separate you from your wallet.
<+Greylenseman> In all human history, Revelation says only 144,000 are invited to live as immortals in Heaven .. men and women fully tested , and rightous beyond MY ability to understand.
<+Greylenseman> I would be looking for "loopholes".
<+Greylenseman> well, gotta go ... gotta get a nap.
I just reviewed the last post, not technically accurate, as I forgot to mention the Paradise Earth as an option, but I did allude to it in the beginning ... I was tired.
By Bible Speaks
"God is guarding all the bones of that one; not one of them has been broken." (Ps. 34:20)
As prophesied, the Messiah would be pierced, but his bones would not be broken. Inhabitants of Jerusalem would “look to the One whom they pierced through,” says Zechariah 12:10.
Confirming these points, the apostle John wrote: “One of the soldiers jabbed his [Jesus’] side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. And he that has seen it [John] has borne witness, and his witness is true . . . These things took place in order for the scripture to be fulfilled: ‘Not a bone of his will be crushed.’ And, again, a different scripture says: ‘They will look to the One whom they pierced.’”—John 19:33-37.
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By Guest Nicole
Why did Armageddon fail to come in 1975 as the Watchtower predicted?
In Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, the world’s end was said to be ‘so very near’ that JWs were commended who sold ‘their homes and property’ to devote themselves to full-time service in ‘the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end’. (p 3)
In 1975 they said, ‘The fulfillment . . . is immediately ahead of us.’ (Man’s Salvation out of World Distress at Hand, p 312)
In 1975 they said, ‘Very short must be the time that remains . . .’.’ (Ibid p 349)
1975 came and went, thus discouraging and embarrassing the WT and JWs. Yet from 1976 to today the WT still says Armageddon and the end of the world is very near.
Conclusion: If the WT has been wrong on every prediction, how can anybody trust it?
Question: Why has the WT missed the date of Armageddon every time it predicted it?
The WT has not only lied to people they call ‘God’s enemies’, but they have lied to their own
After reading these WT false prophecies, and its own admission that it lied, how can the WT be trusted any more?
Has the Watchtower ever lied, covered up, or changed doctrines and dates?
If God speaks through the WT, then He must change His mind very often.
Consider the following changes in dates, prophecies and doctrines:
1. They changed the beginning of the ‘time of the end’ from 1799 to 1914;
2. They changed the date of the second coming of Christ from 1874 to 1914;
3. They changed the nature of Christ’s return from earthly visible to heavenly and invisible;
4. They changed the end of the 6000 years of creation from 1872 to 1975;
5. They changed vaccination from being forbidden to being permitted;
6. They changed the ‘Faithful and wise servant’ from C T Russell to the WT Society;
7. They changed from allowing worship of Jesus to forbidding it;
8. They changed their view of Israel from literal national to spiritual of all believers.
Why so many changes?
Answer: Since the predicted events didn’t happen, they covered up their false prophecies to hide the fact that God really hadn’t spoken through the Watchtower Society.
Do their false prophecies support their claim of spiritual enlightenment and guidance?
What a joke! The WT Society has mislead millions of people in claiming it is God’s sole channel of communication on earth today.
Rutherford believed that God’s Holy Spirit had ceased to function as his teacher, and had been replaced by angels who taught him in his mind.(WT, Sept 1,1930,p.263 & Feb 1,1935,p.41)
Today the leaders claim that both the Holy Spirit, and angels communicate information to them. (WT, March 1, 1972, p.155 and Aug 1, 1987, p.19)
Conclusion: False prophecies lead us to conclude that the Watchtower is receiving its information from demons, rather than from God.
1889- In subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God has already begun...And that the "battle of the great day of God almighty [revelation 16:14], which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced. [The 1915 edition of this book changed "A.D. 1914" to "A.D. 1915."] *from the book "The Time is at Hand; 1889
1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
1899 "...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873," (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914," (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year," (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work," (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything," (Watchtower, p. 232).
1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates," (Vindication, p. 338).
1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon," (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).
6,000 years from Adam ended in A.D. 1872. (Daily Heavenly Manna, inside cover page),6,000 years of human history ended in 1873.(The Time is at Hand, p.33),6,000 years of human history ended in 1972.(The Truth Shall Make You Free, p.152, 1943 edition),6,000 years of human history ended in 1975. (Awake!, October 8th, 1968, page 15).
Would a true prophet of God make false prophecies about World War II?
‘The Nazis will destroy the British.’ (Fifth Column, p 15)
The new book titled Children will prove useful ‘in the remaining months before Armageddon’ (Watchtower, 15 September 1941, p 288)
‘The end of Nazi Fascist hierarchy will come and will mark the end forever of demon rule.’ (Watchtower, 15 December 1941, p 377)
Yes....Watchtower 7/1879 page 8
No.....Watchtower 6/1/52 page 338
Yes....Watchtower 8/1/65, page 479
No.....Watchtower 6/1/88, page 31
Yes...Live Forever (old Ed.) page 179
No....Live Forever (new Ed.) page 179
Yes...Insight, vol. 2., page 985
No...Revelation book, page 273.
If the organization did not actually prophesy the end in 1925 and 1975, then how come so many Witnesses left the faith immediately afterwards? ("They lost roughly three-quarters of the movement between 1925 and 1928, then suffered huge losses after 1975, when the end didn't come as they had implied over and over again," said Jim Penton, an ex-Witness who writes entries on Jehovah's Witnesses for the Encyclopedia Americana.)