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Should true Christians use the word "Disaster"?


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3 minutes ago, Witness said:

I have no intention of mocking Him, by using a hybrid name developed by men.

But in many languages even calling God, "God" is using a hybrid name developed by men. For example, the word for "God" in Spanish is Dios, which comes from Zeus. In Greek the word was Theos. dZeu-pater (God the Father) is also pronounced Jupiter. 

The word "holy" or "heile" in German is a not-so-thinly-veiled connection to the Sun's rays. The word Hades was the name of the Greek god of the underworld. Tartarus was a place in Greek mythology where the mythological giants were imprisoned. There are even several common Greek words that Paul used where the etymology traces directly back to the practices known from particular pagan cities.

I think that a lot of people who won't use a pronunciation like "Jehovah" have no problem with people who used it outside the Watchtower publications, especially as it was used prior to say 1900. But we also have a lot of evidence that God's people pronounced the name Yaho in the century(ies) just leading up to Christianity, and therefore many likely used such a pronunciation in Jesus' day. This is probably different from its pronunciation 600 years earlier. But pronouncing the English transliterations of the Hebrew letters is also a human convention developed by man. I think it's the same principle we have to deal with in all language. Language changes over time and pronunciations will sometimes end up overlapping with mundane or pagan words, and sometimes mundane or pagan concepts will overlap with sacred words.

Just my opinion, too, of course.

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Sometimes, I think we go overboard in insinuating the worst for words that have lost their original meaning in modern parlance and that have become just an expression for which there doesn't seem to be a better alternative. Years ago, (maybe even for some today) it was considered bad form to use the word "fortune" or "luck" - insinuating if we used those words we were invoking or crediting the "god of luck." Which to most people would seem absurd, but not to all - "unfortunately." I was reminded

God has not given any authority to the GB or the rest of the Leaders of the CCJW. Even the GB admit to NOT BEING inspired by God's Holy Spirit, and they admit that they 'err', or deliberately do wrong.  They used to pretend that Elders were appointed by Holy Spirit, but now they admit that Elders are NOT appointed by Holy spirit.  The GB have back tracked on many things. They constantly change the 'teachings' through the Watchtower.  The GB also deliberately 'forget' that the 'Bod

@Witness & @Srecko Sostar  you have both got me thinking on this now.  It is very interesting and it will get me re-reading the Greek Scriptures once again but from a different viewpoint.  However the NWT is what I've been using and now I'm thinking I need a different translation of God's Word.  The NWT does alter words to suit there own agenda, so a comparison would be nice, but in hard copy.  I know lots are available to read online but It would be great to get away fro

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I think that a lot of people who won't use a pronunciation like "Jehovah" have no problem with people who used it outside the Watchtower publications, especially as it was used prior to say 1900.

We have record of God calling Himself “elohym”, translated “God”.  Gen 26:24; Deut 2:7, etc.

אֱלֹהִים ʼĕlôhîym, el-o-heem'; plural of 

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; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:—angels, × exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), × (very) great, judges, × mighty.

We have record of the Father using the word, “holy” – Exod. 19:6; Lev 11:44, etc.

קָדוֹשׁ qâdôwsh, kaw-doshe'; or קָדֹשׁ qâdôsh; from 

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; sacred (ceremonially or morally); (as noun) God (by eminence), an angel, a saint, a sanctuary:—holy (One), saint.

We know Jesus used the Greek word, “theos” for "God" – Mark 7:13; Matt 3:16, etc.

 θεός theós, theh'-os; of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 

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) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:—X exceeding, God, god(-ly, -ward).

He used the Greek word  "hagios" for “holy” – Matt 25:31; John 17:11, etc.

ἅγιος hágios, hag'-ee-os; from ἅγος hágos (an awful thing) (compare 

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); sacred (physically, pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially, consecrated):—(most) holy (one, thing), saint.

There is no instance where “Jehovah” is used in the inspired Word.  If God never referred to it, nor Jesus, why would we?  What is upsetting, is the term “Jehovah” is taught by the WT as His sacred name.  One of the first things I was told by a JW was, “did you know God has a name?”  

I know better now, that the name which can be translated as a god of ruin, disaster, calamity, mischief, is not the the true name of the Father in Heaven.  Just because it is "convenient" and well-known, doesn't mean it is acceptable to the one true God - the One who "causes to become".  Joel 2:32

Can mere humans make judgment calls, in what may be acceptable to the Almighty God? 

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How many parents research the meaning of names for their future children?  I had three boys and each name we chose as parents, had a special meaning that, to this day, I have not forgotten.  I can't fathom a new parent deliberately giving their newborn a name that research revealed it to be absolutely disgusting...but, maybe it happens.  Yet, to take lightly what we call the  Heavenly Father, as if He turns a blind eye to the obvious, is regretful.  If Jesus was careful how he addressed His Father, I will be careful also.  

 "Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:21-24

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If we wanted to understand how voices, letters and words were created, and then how their meaning came about, we would have a difficult task.
On the other hand, it is very simplistic to accept the appearance of a fully developed and clear language appearing with Adam and Eve. But things get even more complicated when we read the report that God initiated many fully developed languages during the time of Nimrod. It means that God is the source of the meaning of every vocabulary.
The words and their origin, concept and meaning that have or have had to people before us or today sometimes changes.
Asking a question or doubt as to whether it is permissible to use a particular word is not completely justified. It's similar to some "vulgar" word. Is "vulgar" word vulgar in itself? I don't think so. The social community has begun to find the word shameful and wants to put it out of use. You know that some people in their curses send an interlocutor with whom they disagree "go to that * thing *". What is "that thing"? Male or female sex organ. What would be the difference if we used a medical or lexical official term for a particular part of the body instead of a vulgar word? Would that even be vulgar swearing then?

Does particular word  have any "magic" meaning? Is there a word of "pagan" origin? Words serve to distinguish between different persons, things or phenomena. The wrong purpose of a particular word is another question. If I start using the word "car" for every house I see in town, it means that others will not understand me or say that I'm a lunatic. But if I gain enough supporters then in that group that word will have exactly that meaning.

 

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11 hours ago, The Librarian said:

wonder why this never took hold?

We would have to go of this world to do that.  All of us cannot use this in the work place, in shops etc.... only at hall....... so it is impractical for now.  Maybe we will have new names in the new system.

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some suggestion:

Sunday = not working day
Monday = preparation for work day
Tuesday = light work day
Wednesday = work break day
Thursday = task finishing day
Friday = Celebrating the upcoming weekend day
Saturday = Celebration break day

.... about names for months go to Croatian calendar, normal meanings  :)) 

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On 4/5/2020 at 1:50 AM, Witness said:

by using a hybrid name developed by men. 

This Hebrew scholar has collected more than 1000 MANUSCRIPTS which has the pointer system in Hebrew in them and these manuscripts CONFIRM the name's pronunciation to be Jehovah.....

Here is another interesting chat about the meaning of the name:

Here are just seven of the manuscripts he found: 

 

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36 minutes ago, Arauna said:

This Hebrew scholar has collected more than 1000 MANUSCRIPTS which has the pointer system in Hebrew in them and these manuscripts CONFIRM the name's pronunciation to be Jehovah.....

Here is another interesting chat about the meaning of the name:

Thank you, but what I understand about the meaning of "Jehovah" makes perfect sense to me.  If you feel the need to justify using it, it is your choice.  

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16 hours ago, Witness said:

I can't fathom a new parent deliberately giving their newborn a name that research revealed it to be absolutely disgusting...but, maybe it happens.  Yet, to take lightly what we call the  Heavenly Father, as if He turns a blind eye to the obvious, is regretful.  If Jesus was careful how he addressed His Father, I will be careful also.  

Why then did so many faithful Jews use "theophoric" names that incorporated the Divine Name as from the tetragrammaton in the names they used for their children if it's meaning was so disgusting? 

from Wikipedia:

The name of the Israelite deity YHWH (usually shortened to Yah or Yahu, and Yeho or Yo) appears as a prefix or suffix in many theophoric names of the 

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. For example, Yirme-yahu (
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), Yesha-yahu (
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), Netan-yah, Yedid-yah, Adoni-yah, Nekhem-yah, Yeho-natan (
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), Yeho-chanan (
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), Yeho-shua (
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), Yeho-tzedek, Zekharya (
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).

"Yahū" or "Yah" is the abbreviation of YHWH when used as a suffix in Hebrew names; as a prefix it appears as "Yehō-", or "Yo". It was formerly thought to be abbreviated from the 

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 pronunciation "
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". There is an opinion
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 that, as Yahweh is likely an 
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 verb form, "Yahu" is its corresponding 
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 or 
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short form: compare yiŝtahaweh (imperfective), yiŝtáhû (preterit or jussive short form) = "do obeisance".

The article then goes on to list many common Biblical Hebrew names we commonly use as being theophoric names that incorporate Yahweh and YHWH.

Although, to be fair to you, maybe I am not clear on what your contention is. It doesn't appear that the argument you propose above seems to be supported generally by scholars. I also checked the website you linked to in support of your argument. Apparently the author you are relying on for your facts has some other nuggets of "truth" he is proffering. Here are just a few:

- "Why Paul is a Fake Apostle"; "Near Death Testimonies by a Nigerian Pastor and a 15 Year Old of Heaven and Hell"; "The Messiah's Missing Years in the Far East in Search of the Lost Tribes": "The Earth is Not a Globe - "we live on a flat motionless earth."; "There are No Planets - Just Stars and One Sun"; "Gravity is a Fraud"...

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1 hour ago, b4ucuhear said:

Why then did so many faithful Jews use "theophoric" names that incorporated the Divine Name as from the tetragrammaton in the names they used for their children if it's meaning was so disgusting? 

I understand what you are saying; but tell me, did the early Jews ever incorporate the Hebrew word "hovah" into a name?

H1943 הֹוָה hôvâh, ho-vaw'; another form for 

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; ruin:—mischief.

Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief H1943 shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know.  Isa 47:11

Mischief H1943 shall come upon mischief, H1943 and rumour shall be upon rumour; then shall they seek a vision of the prophet; but the law shall perish from the priest, and counsel from the ancients.  Ezek 7:26

 

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11 minutes ago, Witness said:

I understand what you are say; but tell me, did the early Jews ever incorporate the Hebrew word "hovah" into a name?

To me, the problem arises when you attempt to slice and dice a name/word that is not meant to be and infer meanings that were never intended. For instance just using the example of "fortune" listed earlier. "Fortune" is one word. But if I slice it up into "for" as in pro something and "tune" as in music, I might come up with the conclusion that "fortune" actually means someone is Pro-Music. An entirely wrong definition of what "fortune" really means. But to be sure, before I finish this response, I will attempt to find a better example that directly relates to this discussion. Be back in a while...

OK, I'm  back now...here is something you might find interesting: (Not written by JW's or the organization btw. I won't include the site because I don't want to direct people to a non-JW site but it/and others are easy enough to find...)                    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Culprits Turn “God” into “evil” (The Loaf of Bread Illustration)

Let’s call this my “loaf of bread” theory, for lack of a better illustration. Many former Jehovah’s Witnesses, as well as others who are either fooled by others or who denounce the name, suggest that the name of God Jehovah means “god of ruin”, or “god of destruction”. They take to this by watching others lay out the word “Jehovah” like a loaf of bread, and slicing it up into parts. They then attempt to butter the bread and flavor it. Essentially, they redefine the parts slice by slice. They turn a word that was already previously translated from Hebrew to English, and double or triple translate it into “buttered pieces” of English, and then mash it all together and call it a conclusive meaning. This does not work. The name has already been translated. Hebrew language “rules” must be taken into consideration to properly translate certain words or names. Masoretic vowel points are even critical to understand.

For example, the Masorites added the 

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 to the letters “jah” in order to remind the readers to say “Lord” (Adonai) instead of “Jah“. (See photo below) Their intentions were to prevent those in synagogues from saying God’s name. In addition, many names that ended in “yah” were translated “iah“, which some believe was also done by the Masorites out of fear of people speaking the holy name of God out loud.

Jehovah God Hebrew

Jewah” and “Jehouah” were also written forms adapted and accepted through the ages. Christian theologians began to make the pronunciation or spelling as “Jehovah“, choosing to disregard or dismiss the Masoretic translations of the word. Further, some scholars prefer the pronunciation “Jehwah” over the name “Yahweh”, feeling that it is seen in the most reliable translations, including the Masoretic MSS, versions of the 

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 (Septuagint) and the 
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. Still, the topic of translations is disputed, as it probably always will be.

“Vocalizations of a Hebrew word would change according to the consonantal root.” -W. Vischer

 

God of Ruin? 

With the intricacies of the languages and tedious translations involved, it is beyond ludicrous for anyone to chop apart the name “Jehovah” and convert it to a meaning such as “God of ruin”. In fact, most language experts would find this uneducated, unscholarly nonsense as borderline ludicrous.

The Culprits

It should also be noted that there is a Guyanese woman who demands that “Jehovah” means “god of ruin”. She dedicates her website to this assertion,  as well as her alleged desire to “unite Israelites”. Her website reveals horrendous English, including grammar, punctuation and spelling. If one does not recognize the difference between “there” and “they’re”, and repeatedly capitalizes the word “history”, then credibility is that of a novice, at best. One might also deduce that repeatedly yelling to readers by using multiple exclamation points denotes poor judgement and suggests lack of basic intellectual written communication.

The Rumor Mill

Those who parrot these type of people also show their dangerous susceptibility to believe just about anything they read. In addition, the woman I refer to also states that one cannot “put yah in front of God’s name”. She calls herself a Hebrew, and believes Jesus Christ is “Ba’al”. Enough said on that.

God’s Name Mocked by Many

Please use caution when repeating what you hear or read. Many have lashed out in anger, believing that “Jehovah means evil”. Do you see what has just happened? One thinks they’re stating irrefutable fact, and begins telling the world, “Jehovah is evil… Jehovah is Satan”. Some even profess to be Christians, and spout off this unfounded jargon. Through a simple smokescreen, many self professed Christians are blaspheming in an effort to prove a religion wrong, as some sort of “dirt” they’ve uncovered. Many former JWs have fallen into the trap of saying “their God” (when referring to Jehovah’s Witnesses) and including abusive speech directly against God, possibly without even realizing it. Hence, the Jehovah’s Witnesses may in turn have grounds to view most of these people as unbelievers in God, or atheists, or even blasphemers. This may give Jehovah’s Witnesses more “ammunition” against former JWs and others, who already have a reputation and stereotype of being “tricked” by alleged “false information”, and led by Satan.

It is highly important then, that Christians and even non-Christians use extra caution in spreading false information that has no intellectual basis whatsoever."

So while the authors are not JW's, they seriously caution others about specious and false arguments in support of their hatred of JW's since it will ultimately backfire and actually make them look gullible and bad, rather than prove JW's wrong.

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11 minutes ago, b4ucuhear said:

it is beyond ludicrous for anyone to chop apart the name “Jehovah” and convert it to a meaning such as “God of ruin”. In fact, most language experts would find this uneducated, unscholarly nonsense as borderline ludicrous.

Ok.  The act of 'chopping' is exactly how the rendition of "Jehovah" came about:

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  • Not Forgetting the Name of God

Hebrew, like other Semitic languages, has no vowel letters, but even in early times vowel signs were used. These vowels, according to Adams, “are indicated by ‘points’ or little symbols—usually dots, resembling small periods. So when scholars of the early Modern Age began translating the Bible into English they devised what were sometimes wrong interpretations of the vowels.” The name-form Jehovah came to be when early translators took the vowels of Adonayʹ and inserted them between the consonants JHVH, and then changed the original “a” to “e” to aid in pronunciation of the name. Recent discoveries show this form of the name as early as A.D. 1270 in Raymond Martini’s Pugio Fidei. So the name-form Jehovah is one of long usage.

Notwithstanding, it is almost certain that the name of God was originally pronounced “Yah·wehʹ.” (In “Jehovah” the sound of “Y” is represented by “J” and the sound of “W” by “V,” as in Latin.) The Encyclopædia Britannica says: “It is now generally agreed that Jahwe (Yahwe) is the true pronunciation.” The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia states: “Yahveh is the most probable transliteration of the ancient Hebrew name for God.” Bible translator J. B. Rotherham said: “The true pronunciation seems to have been Yahwe.” The Catholic Encyclopedia declares: “Jehovah, the proper name of God in the Old Testament. . . . Inserting the vowels of Jabe [the Samaritan pronunciation] into the original Hebrew consonant text, we obtain the form Jahveh (Yahweh), which has been generally accepted by modern scholars as the true pronunciation of the Divine name.” The New World Bible Translation Committee stated: “While inclining to view the pronunciation ‘Yah·wehʹ” as the more correct way, we have retained the form ‘Jehovah’ because of people’s familiarity with it since the 14th century. Moreover, it preserves, equally with other forms, the four letters of the tetragrammaton JHVH.”

Does it really preserve the four letters of the tetragrammaton?  How can it, when it was "aided" to become a pronounceable name?

Because "hovah' is indeed a Hebrew word, it still portrays a "god of" "ruin, disaster".  

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