I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

3 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Maybe someone smarter than me could put together a power point presentation on how this topic evolved from a discussion about a ludicrus power point presentation on a attempt to disprove God, evolving to a discussion about the insane theory of the overlapping generations, to the validity of the governing bodies words, value and worth..

I could do it, but it might take several months ... at $175.00 an hour.

When the check clears the bank, I will start.

In God I trust.

...all others pay cash.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

8 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Maybe someone smarter than me could put together a power point presentation on how this topic evolved from a discussion about a ludicrus power point presentation on a attempt to disprove God, evolving to a discussion about the insane theory of the overlapping generations, to the validity of the governing bodies words, value and worth..

Well most topics now seem to go totally off topic, but the link between the two diagrams is, that neither designers (of the diagrams) are inspired of God, and neither designers have a clue as to their subject matter, and both just make it up as they go along. Thereby creating the point about the latter's value and worth. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

People should be defended wherever possible. The motives can be quite pure and still mistakes are made. In fact, I would say that there are specific good motives that make certain kinds of mistakes even more likely. I'm pretty sure that's why we have extra warnings in the Bible about not being misled when it comes to speculation about the end-time events. Paul said not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us. Obviously, the end-time events get us all excited, and these are the most likely times and events that persons would be speculating upon.

Um, just like Jesus defended the Pharisees ? Offspring of vipers, whitewashed graves, hypocrites etc....

A TRUE F&DS would not make mistakes. Why ? Because they would be waiting on God through Christ, for true guidance. They would simply say 'We do not know yet' or 'God has not given us that information yet'. That would be being humble. 

A TRUE F&DS wound not 'be speculating upon' anything. 

Are JWs so weak of faith that they need this ? Quote  'the end-time events get us all excited' 

So the GB and it's Writing department has to feed you with lies / false words / speculation / false prophecy, just to keep you all in the flock. What was it one of them said ? We are in the final part of the final last days.

So you seem to be saying that the Apostle Paul was warning you against your own Governing Body. 

And then the GB say 'God and Christ trust us, so you should trust us'.

Look, I'm not even on 'deep thinking mode here', but the hypocrisy is so openly obvious. 

If God, through His written word, has to warn you against your own leaders, then there is a deep problem with you leaders. 

I keep thinking about the fact that Moses didn't enter the promised land. Why ? 

 

[JW Insider]

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Um, just like Jesus defended the Pharisees ? Offspring of vipers, whitewashed graves, hypocrites etc....

Absolutely. It depends on the context. Jesus also said:

(Matthew 23:2, 3) . . .“The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, . . .

(Mark 12:28-34) . . .One of the scribes who had come up and heard them disputing, knowing that he had answered them in a fine way, asked him: “Which commandment is first of all?” . . . 32 The scribe said to him: “Teacher, you spoke well, in line with truth, ‘He is One, and there is no other besides him’; 33 and to love him with one’s whole heart, with one’s whole understanding, and with one’s whole strength and to love one’s neighbor as oneself is worth far more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34 At this Jesus, discerning that he had answered intelligently, said to him: “You are not far from the Kingdom of God.”

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

(Matthew 23:2, 3) . . .“The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, . . .

Was that a defence of them ? Because Jesus follows up with :-

 but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say.a ⁴  They bind up heavy loads and put them on the shoulders of men,b but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger

13 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut up the Kingdom of the heavens before men; for you yourselves do not go in, neither do you permit those on their way in to go in.

I think your GB have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. But whereas the Pharisees were in rightful possession of that place, your GB are not. 

Getting back to Paul that you quoted. You wrote.   Paul said not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us. 

The scripture at 2 Thessalonians v 1 & 2 says :-

 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you ²  not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.

So Paul warned that some would be talking about our being gathered together to him, and about  the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. 

The Governing Body of CCJW talk about both. They have spoken about when they will be 'taken up to heaven' and they continually talk about 'the final part of the final last days'. 

As I've already said, the Apostle Paul was warning against your GB. But all JWs continue to follow the GB through the CCJW.

It honestly makes no sense to me because I believe that most JWs (boots on the ground not ones in positions of authority) are good honest people that are searching for truth. 

But then maybe Catholics and Protestants church goers are basically good honest people too and searching for truth. 

The GB / CCJW just tells different lies. The proof being that Paul warned against it. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

(Matthew 23:2, 3) . . .“The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, . .

I am always happy when JWI does the heavy lifting for me ... as a Barbarian the only thing I have going for me is single minded focus, which can be good ... or bad.

From my many comments here one might very reasonably think I  am on a quest to destroy the Governing Body, and that they are my sworn enemy, but that would be a stretch of enormous proportions, basically because that is not the case at all.

I would like to see MANY reforms, so that others are not chased away from the TRUTH, as I could have been, through no want of considerable effort by clueless Elders, and that others do not have to experience the persecution and discouragement I have faced, because of choosing a life of pursuing the things that interested me, about which Jehovah God has not expressed any opinion on whatsoever, in any way, shape or form, but which offends the sensibilities of those not so inclined. ( Classic example: skydiving, having a beard, and imitating at least two of the Apostles, being armed at all times).

Jehovah did not appoint the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day, neither did he appoint the Governing Body.

BOTH took it upon themselves to "seat themselves in the seat of Moses", a job that I appreciate, and I appreciate that for the most part, their motives and motivation are as pure as the wind driven snow .... sometimes not ...but willy-nilly, the largest problem is the talent pool available.

The GB is recruited from humans ... big ugly nasty, frail, error prone, illogical, greedy and seriously flawed bags of water, sloshing around usually doing the best they can, each with individual "thorns in their side", that stab them and throw them off balance.

I understand this, and I understand that currently there is NO WAY TO GET AROUND IT.

So, without any duplicity, or being two faced, I agree with the principle for the Governing Body the same as what Jesus said for the scribes and Pharisees, of his day..

(Matthew 23:2, 3) . . .“The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. 3 Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, . .

After three years and about six months of being disfellowshipped, about five years ago, I could not compromise about the issue about which I was disfellowshipped, and say "I was sorry", and had three separate reinstatement hearings, the last of which I only promised never to do what got me disfellowshipped again.

By this time, the Elders had gotten to know me better.

They also began to understand the issue better.

At the first hearing, they may have been afraid I might shoot them.(?)

The last hearing only lasted about 4 minutes, less than ten minutes ... and they only asked me three questions.

1.) QUESTION: "What do you think of the Governing Body?"

    ANSWER: " I think I will have to agree with their self assessment in the February 2017 Watchtower, where they stated that they were neither inspired of God, or infallible."

2.) QUESTION: 'What do you not like about "The Truth?""

ANSWER: "Well, I could certainly do without Caleb and Sophia"

3.) QUESTION: "Will you support Jehovah and his Organization?"

ANSWER::" I always have. " ( correctly implying that I always will.)

This was on a Saturday.

They announced my reinstatement the following Tuesday, at a Circuit Overseer's visit.

So, if you who have left "The Truth" are encouraged by my resistance to stupidity, illogic, and injustices found among Jehovah's people, by my "bad example", and my rants and rails against what I have in the past referred to is "the clown car"., you are making the same mistake the Elders made.

The main reason I am so crude, and blunt, and un-diplomatic is that people glaze over with soft words spoken in dulcet tones, and they enjoy being hypnotized.

Also, I never have to remember what I have said .... or to who!!

If you have abandoned "The Truth", you have only shot yourself in the foot, and it takes awhile to bleed out.

Any involvement with any collection of people has the same foibles and weaknesses, and they are legion.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water ... but it's OK to recognize and rail against bathwater that needs to be thrown out.

.... contrary to mainstream preferences.

For blind pawns, Justice must be tempered with mercy, or real love ceases to exist. (John 9:41)

.... and we are ALL, blind pawns, made from DNA.

 

[JW Insider]

7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I am always happy when JWI does the heavy lifting for me

Thanks, but your post contained a lot more heavy lifting than I could offer. I hope your own experience is taken to heart by those who see things only in very stark 'black and white' terms. I hope that @4Jah2me reads it with an open mind and sees answers to his own questions and issues.

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

ANSWER::" I always have. " ( correctly implying that I always will.)

You know, I can get my head around this. I really can.

I’ll still refer to you from time to time as ‘the brother with the rotten attitude’ because who knows how many brothers you have stumbled in carrying on as you do. But I sort of understand where you are coming from as you have not made clear before—or if so, I did not pick up on it. 

What you say is like when someone dear to me told off some elders and I told Mack that I didn’t really approve of him telling off the elders, but..... “I understand,” Mack saved me the hassle of finishing the sentence.

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

and we are ALL, blind pawns, made from DNA.

The ministry is a treasure, but it is treasure in earthen vessels—us—with all the wacky foibles that humans are capable of. I once observed about beards: ‘Hippies and beatniks died out ages ago, it’s not in the Bible and to the extent it is, it is reverse. We are an organization of principles, not rules, and yet no rule is more strongly enforced than the no-beard rule. I’m glad that sucker has finally been put to bed, but it still tosses and turns in its sleep. 

You can complain about such foibles of organization to God. The trouble is, God will say, “Well, you are no great shakes yourself. You’ll all just have to work it out.” It’s a shame you’re not better at doing that, instead giving every appearance that you will be nursing a dozen grudges to your grave. Sometimes you just have to suck it up. All of us do. That’s life. It happens everywhere. 

Ah, well. We all have our hang ups. Even me.

I was walking my pet pig the other day and a man approached to say, “Hey, where did you find the pig?” Before I could open my mouth, the pig said. “I found him online, frequenting the WorldNewsMedia forum. We hit it off and have chummed together ever since.” I don’t get no respect either.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

  

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I’ll still refer to you from time to time as ‘the brother with the rotten attitude’ because who knows how many brothers you have stumbled in carrying on as you do.

You have no idea whatsoever, TTH. 

None.

Zero.

Zip.

Nada.

You do not know how many, and just HOPE that because I am not a conventional "Brother Watchtower", there just HAS to be some, or many, to explain this to your internal world view.

In this respect you are not a rational man ..... you are a RATIONALIZING man.

My honest and thoughtful estimation, having watched MANY dozens of people leave the Truth over the years, is that they are stumbled by the onerous policies, self aggrandizement, arrogant presumption that never apologizes for anything, ever, of the Governing Body, and the made up out of thin air fake theology ( a lifetime of studying types and anti-types that after a hundred years was finally admitted by Bro. Splane to be absolute drivel, is one classic example ... the never ending condemnation of beards is the other even you have commented on as absurd and onerous), that drowns out the core truth that is so magnificent, that we have.

Further honest and thoughtful evaluation of how many people I personally have contributed to driving away from the Truth, is zero, but I have been friends to some who were looking for an excuse to leave, and did NOT have me to use as an example, as outlined earlier.

According to current thinking, my being thrown out, should have ENCOURAGED them,

People, however, have looked at my attitude, demeanor, and my interests in things about which Jehovah God has given us Freedon and Liberty to do as we see fit, as sons of God, and exclaimed "How do you get away with not being disfellowshipped?"

That ..... breaks my heart, and has for many decades.

It's like having to carry around 80 pounds of concrete ..... always.

Many Brothers and Sisters with less insight and experience than I cannot carry that load, and drop it, because what they see makes no sense.

We have the TRUTH about God,and his Son, and God's plans for this Earth, and all of human kind.

People would naturally want to line up by the hundreds of millions to be a part of that.

We would not have to knock on their doors ... they would be pounding on OURS!

Tell me, TTH ... who is responsible for the 73% of all Jehovah's Witnesses who eventually leave the Truth?

Me?

 

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

13 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

that drowns out the core truth that is so magnificent, that we have.

What drowned it out in the first century? In no time at all, the magnificent core truths were gone, thoroughly mixed in with philosophies of the day. To the extent the apostles and loyal ones tried to hold it back, no doubt reading false positives sometimes and overreacting, you would have been railing against them, too.

The trick is not to sanitize the present. It is to desanitize the past.

We’re not all that far apart, you blustering old pork chop.

26 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

but I have been friends to some who were looking for and excuse to leave, and did NOT have me to use as an example, as outlined earlier.

There is something to this. I am struck by the fact that those who leave and thereafter show their faces on the internet as ‘apostates’ have almost always forgotten all about the ‘core magnificent’ truths that they once cherished. The sighing and groaning that impelled them into the truth has been replaced by bitching and complaining that drove them out. They appear to have no problem replacing the satisfying explanation of why God permits suffering with ‘Stuff happens.’ Appreciation for the core and magnificent truths—gone, replaced by self-absorption into their own woes.

To that extent—although you bitch and complain more than any dozen of them put together, you have NOT forsaken the core magnificent truths and thus stay in the only place that holds them up high, even if they are not immune to the pig-headedness and pettiness of human nature. To that extent you deserve credit, though you carry on as disrespectfully as you do.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Interesting essay, but did not answer the question.

Interesting observations, but missed the point entirely.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Interesting observations, but missed the point entirely.

Who can tell what your point is, what with the non-stop diatribes and cartoons? You like to complain—THAT point stands out front and center. As to your other point—well, you’re some sort of ‘freedom-fighter,’ or ‘gunslinger,’ or ‘whistleblower,’ or something of that sort. Join the 21st century, where such ones proliferate like weeds.

The very fact that you were reinstated gives the lie to much of your accusations as to how controlling and abusive the JW organization is. They forgave some things, overlooked others, and let go of any grudges. It’s a shame you can’t find it within yourself to do the same.

What’s remarkable is how valiantly you defend Trump, practically kissing my feet when I wrote a post to that effect, wanting me to forward it to major outlets—and at the same time, you vehemently attack the GB. Yet both purportedly play the role, in different contexts, of representing and defending the amhaarets from the ‘elites.’ TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) for you means people who go apoplectic in rage at the President. WDS (Watchtower Derangement Syndrome—your own term) means for you exactly the opposite—people who DO NOT go apoplectic in criticizing the GB, but who would defend them.

You’re a piece of work! Fortunately for you, you’re in an organization that puts up with and even welcomes pieces of work. All the ‘balanced’ people are out chasing the goals of this system of things and are, at the moment, experiencing nightmares, fearing it will all disintegrate.