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TrueTomHarley

Overlooked by the Religion News Service—How Can That Be?

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I visited religionnews.com and found that my religion does not exist. Jehovah's Witnesses are nowhere listed in their tree of faiths. Everyone else is. Jehovah's Witnesses are not. Can it be? RNS "strive to inform, illuminate and inspire public discourse on matters relating to belief and convictions," says their About page. So where are Jehovah's Witnesses?Few religions have been in the news as much as they, especially with 

    Hello guest!
. Is Religion News Service a Russian site? No. Is it their aim to suck up to the Russians? I don't think so. So where are the Witnesses?

The reason that there is not a Jeopardy clue: "They visit door to door to speak about the Bible" is that the answer is too obvious and would stump no one. In some ways Witnesses are plainly the foremost of religions. "And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come" (Matthew 24:14), for example. Nobody is known for taking the "good news of the Kingdom' to each and every person like Jehovah's Witnesses, especially before "the end will come.' Here is a cartoon of how 

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:

Or what about the verse, "beating their swords into plowshares.' (Isaiah 2:4) It is an inspirational slogan for all. The ones who actually DO it are Jehovah's Witnesses. They may be the only ones to completely do it, in that, not only will they not participate in wars, but they will not perform civilian work that is clearly designed to support war efforts. 

Yet, look through the comprehensive list at the bottom of the religionnews.com website"”they do not appear.

The first place you check, of course, is Christianity. There you find four subdivisions: Catholics, Latter Day Saints, Orthodox, and Protestants. If they are in any of the four, it must be Protestants. There you find three subdivisions: Black Protestants, Evangelical, and Mainline. Well, they're not the first or the third. Since they preach the good news of the Kingdom, could they be the second? Nope. Scroll through the stories in that category. You won't find them.

Okay, got it. They are not counted as Christian because RNS assumes that one must believe in the Trinity to be Christian"”many times we've run across this. 

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. Most verses used to advance the Trinity teaching are verses that, if they were seen in any other context, would be instantly dismissed as figure of speech. There is no verse that directly states the Trinity, and the one in the King James Version that does (1 John 5:7) has been recognized by all modern scholars as a spurious insertion and thus either removed or footnoted. One almost pictures a scribe reviewing scriptures, getting madder and madder that his favorite doctrine is no where to be found, and slipping it in when no one was looking. 

Where else might Jehovah's Witnesses be if not in the Christian category? Well, maybe the Alternative Faiths category, or the Other Faiths category. Nope. Scroll through the stories on either category. They do not appear. 

Is it an oversight? Is it a snub? Is it avoidance because any story about Jehovah's Witnesses will reliably attract 

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 alarmed at any favorable mention and insistent upon maligning their former faith and so RNS just doesn't want to deal with it? (
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 Dunno. But is certainly is strange. 

Now, to be sure, if you enter Jehovah's Witnesses in the Search box, a few items appear"”not many, but a few. There is someone there at RNS that knows that if your textbook is the Bible, if you teach from it, if you have even invented an entirely new non-commercial distribution channel and translated it into overlooked languages of developing countries so that common persons there are not stuck with some 200-year old turkey of a translation that they can neither understand nor afford, you must be a religion. Still, Jehovah's Witnesses are not listed in the list that includes everyone else. 

Do not think that the JW organization will be miffed at not being included in the list. They may even draw satisfaction from it. "Good. Here is a list of the religions "of the world' and we are not on it," they may say. If there is one verse they take seriously over there at JW HQ, it is John 17:16, where Jesus prays about his followers: "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."

For that reason I will not go the RNS site and holler, "Hey!"”what is it with you clowns?!" The site is an offspring of the Missouri School of Journalism. It speaks of the "academic experts' that monitor all. I don't want to tangle with experts. Maybe they will try to pull rank on that basis. Who knows? Maybe they are right. Maybe I am not part of a religion, even if I do speak of the Bible door to door and keep the peace.

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Quote @TrueTomHarley " but they will not perform civilian work that is clearly designed to support war efforts."

This choice was taken from JWs in WW2 because the Leaders of the JWs took away people's conscience by misusing the Romans  scripture regarding Superior Authorities. 

Many of the younger generation now, who have no religion, will not go to war. Punks, a subculture, are anti-war. Hippies were also anti-war. It is not just a JW thing. 

Quote "Nobody is known for taking the ‘good news of the Kingdom’ to each and every person like Jehovah’s Witnesses, especially before ‘the end will come.’ "

Perhaps also, nobody is known for telling as many lies about how to serve God,and the 'Good News'.

Perhaps the JWs are best known for false predictions of Armageddon. Or maybe CSA.

JWs can be known for scaremongering, but In those cases i think it is just that some JWs are a bit too keen to get a message across. Some even use this Covid-19 virus as an excuse.  

 

 

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46 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

visited religionnews.com and found that my religion does not exist. Jehovah’s Witnesses are nowhere listed in their tree of faiths. Everyone else is. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not. Can it be?

Why you are upset? WTJWorg preaching that you are not part of this world. If you are not par of it, why would you be part of these list? :))

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8 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Why you are upset? WTJWorg preaching that you are not part of this world. If you are not par of it, why would you be part of these list? :))

TTH already mentioned that. I think you were supposed to read the part that had a line through the words, too. :))

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Not completely ignored, though:

    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!

Here's a link to about 20 of their articles from the last 3 years (about JWs):

    Hello guest!

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

TTH already mentioned that. I think you were supposed to read the part that had a line through the words, too. :))

I don’t know where the strike throughs came from. It wasn’t me, unless it was by accident. A software glitch? Dunno. But there weren’t supposed to be any. 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Not completely ignored, though:

That is acknowledged, too. Searching, one may find some things. But in the tree of faiths that includes most everyone, at least in the alternative or other category, Witnesses are not to be found.

As you stated to Srecko, I’m not upset about it, and Bethel may even be happy about it. As usual, 4Jah is all wet. These others he mentioned can and are maneuvered into other forms of violence, even if nationalism has become passé for some of them. And without a unity founded on love, it takes nothing for the national king to convince them that the villains are to be found in the domain of the other king. It takes nothing to stir up people today.

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

For that reason I will not go the RNS site and holler, “Hey

Good that they do not recognise us!  The image of the beast will go for all other religions - to remove them - and forget about us.  Then at last they will come for us when we deliver a special message..... just before Armageddon!  This will be their undoing..... to therafter attack JWs.

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1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

JWs took away people's conscience

Bad argument!   Their consciences are refined so they can love their enemies and not take political sides!  So they can cross all political and racial barriers! 

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Just now, Arauna said:

Good that they do not recognise us!  The image of the beast will go for all other religions - to remove them - and forget about us.  Then at last they will come for us when we deliver a special message..... just before Armageddon!  This will be their undoing..... to go for JWs.

That is the moral of the post that you stated more succinctly than I. In a list of “the religions of the world,” we are not on it.

If you were to ask Bethel to describe their faith, very quickly would come up that statement that true Christians “are no part of the world.”

Make of it what you will. I don’t make anything of it. I just note it.

 

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1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

Some JWs are a bit too keen to get their message across. Some even use this Covid-19 virus as an excuse.  

I haven’t. Nor have I seen anyone here who has. More importantly, The JW organization clearly hasn’t.

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/87136-‘using’-the-pandemic-to-‘recruit’-people-sheesh-what-is-it-with-these-nutcases/

But if any individual has, I can certainly understand. A pandemic that has not been seen in 100 years. Economic disruption not seen since the Great Depression. In the US, there have been numerous reports of food lines up to two miles long. I would forgive any brother for going there, even if the organization itself has not. So far it is just one more nail in the coffin of human mismanagement of the earth to them.

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31 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

That is acknowledged, too

True. You said there were a few, and I took this to mean only about 3 or 4 and I thought I had remembered more. It's odd that it's only about 20, considering, but at least most of them are pieces of news that we would consider relevant, like Russia, persecution, etc.

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1 minute ago, JW Insider said:

It's odd that it's only about 20, considering, but at least most of them are pieces of news that we would consider relevant, like Russia, persecution, etc.

One of them is not JW per se, but is of someone who wrote a book on how to refute them, along with the Mormons, latching on to key scriptures cites and how to answer back.

Bring it on, I say. Any Witness worth his salt knows how to answer such things.

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The simplest way to find out why Jehovah's Witnesses are not listed where you think the should be is ask the RNS.

OR... you might spend several days speculating and produce several dissertations.

RELIGION NEWS SERVICE
30 Neff Annex
Columbia, MO 65211

844-767-6397 (1-844-RNS-NEWS)

Or you could look up from your racquet ball match in mid-serve, and ask

"Norm, Did Elaine ever own a horse?"

(apologies to Dave Barry)

 

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16 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The simplest way to find out why Jehovah's Witnesses are not listed where you think the should be is ask the RNS.

There you go, ‘ol boy. A fine project for you. Right that wrong.

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TTH:

It concerns me NOT AT ALL to be slighted by people that I care absolutely nothing about ... or even the ones I do care deeply about,

You care so deeply, as evidenced by your Epistle  .... YOU make the phone call

Or ... as an alternative ... you could continue to be slighted, indignant, and ignorant.

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4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Bad argument!   Their consciences are refined so they can love their enemies and not take political sides!  So they can cross all political and racial barriers! 

Their consciences were stolen because they had to obey the Leaders of the Org due to misuse of the Superior Authorities scripture. This has been admitted by many JWs, even on here. 

And if you could just be honest for once, you would admit it is true. 

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You care so deeply, as evidenced by your Epistle  .... YOU make the phone call

In this case the answer is not particularly important, nor interesting. The situation prompting the question is what arouses interest. Here is a list of religions ‘of the world.’ Jehovah’s Witnesses, who are ‘no part of the world’ are not on it. Who cares why? I don’t.

Even so, I did mention three possibilities: 

Is it an oversight? Is it a snub? Is it avoidance because any story about Jehovah's Witnesses will reliably attract 

    Hello guest!
 alarmed at any favorable mention and insistent upon maligning their former faith and so RNS just doesn't want to deal with it?”

Which one of the three it is doesn’t interest me. It is like when the Die Hard villain finally dies himself, after two hours of mayhem, and you learn in the epilogue that he was also behind in his contributions to the United Way. Who cares?

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4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

That is the moral of the post that you stated more succinctly than I. In a list of “the religions of the world,” we are not on it.

If you were to ask Bethel to describe their faith, very quickly would come up that statement that true Christians “are no part of the world.”

Make of it what you will. I don’t make anything of it. I just note it.

 

Bethel is sort of building and not place where faith lives. Behtel workers who answer as you had said, have more correct faith than some GB members who before many years (decades) put their signatures on Bibles as gift to some public officials. This "custom" is "normal" for those who are "part of the world", what ever that have or should mean in this or any other context. :))

image.jpeg

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

TTH already mentioned that. I think you were supposed to read the part that had a line through the words, too. :))

Perhaps TTH not expecting from me to read his entire column :))) 

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8 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

concerns me NOT AT ALL

Good.  It is a good thing that we are not counted "worthy" enough to be noticed. In this case - to fly under the radar is much better than in full sight.  There is a time to be quiet and a time to speak.  

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5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

signatures on Bibles as gift to some

I have given bibles to people with a nice bible verse and my name...... so they can remember who gave it to them and the occasion.

It seems that any normal activity which normal people do, is singled out by you to become a kind of "evil" deed.  I call you out for your accusing tone..... and for constantly appointing yourself as judge. It seems you have never made a mistake in your life and afterward thought- I should not have done that.

A friend gave me my bible because I left behind some books in USA.  You say it is somehow wrong of her to have put her name and date in it? 

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6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

consciences were stolen

The shoe is on the other foot - if you would only admit it. I know who took yours because the OCD is a good indication. 

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6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Apparently you cared .

There is a difference between caring and noting a phenomenon. In this case a welcomed phenomenon.

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12 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I call you out [Srecko] for your accusing tone...

Increasingly he says nasty and largely irrelevant things just for the sake of saying nasty and irrelevant things. 

He may go the way of Matthew 4 5784, who eventually dropped all pretense of being here to help, earned a rebuke or two, and left of his own volition, a New Year’s resolution—though he is back now sparingly, and may even have turned over a new leaf in some regards. 

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8 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Their consciences were stolen because they had to obey the Leaders of the Org due to misuse of the Superior Authorities scripture.

Can anyone exercise their conscience without the ability to think independently?  

"But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us."  W 89 9/15/pp 20-25

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Newspapers commonly advertise the JW Sunday meeting times and address in the church notice section. I have even seen the name of the talk to be given, on a particular Sunday.  The newspaper could only have gotten this information from the elders of the local kh.  When traveling through small towns many times I’ve seen the Jehovah’s Witnesses kingdom hall listed on a sign post, along with all other religions of the town.

Are JWs really “no part of the world” of religions?  Or, are those who have left the organization, no longer part of that  particular world? John 17:15,16  Jesus separated himself from the corruption of the religious system of his own people.  Is there corruption in the religious system of the WT?  What JW, in all honesty, could say no?

 

    Hello guest!

 

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23 minutes ago, Witness said:

Can anyone exercise their conscience without the ability to think independently?  

"But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us."  W 89 9/15/pp 20-25

What they are ACTUALLY saying is EXACTLY this:

".... The men taking the lead among us have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us."

WOW!

I guess that is why we were once taught that men having sex with men, or animals does not dissolve a marriage, and we are taught TODAY ... today,  that two Bethelites sitting naked in chairs, watching each other masturbate IS NOT pornea.

".... The men taking the lead among us have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us."

OF COURSE THEY DO!

The question that needs to be asked is this ....  how can people be dumber than rocks?

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32 minutes ago, Witness said:

independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and

If there ever was an independent thinker who likes to explore new ideas, I am one of them.  BUT - I do not teach bible students my own ideas and also not  in the congregation.  I will chat with others about it but not openly advocate my own teachings.

The reason being that if you really have christ in your heart you will not cause divisions in the congregation over non-essential things. 

The essential teachings such as the name jehovah, non-divinity of christ, mortality of the soul, kingdom of christ with earthly subjects... are absolutes ...that are not a matter of opinion. Other subjects are non-essential matters for debate because peoples egos are associated with them. .... as apostle Paul mentioned.  He said we must not be contentious and egotistical.

James 4:1

What is the source of the wars and fights among you? Do they not originate from your fleshly desires that carry on a conflict within you?

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34 minutes ago, Witness said:

Newspapers commonly advertise the JW Sunday

Americans do not make distinctions between local and national - so it seems.  Local newspapers,  federal news, or national or country-wide lists if religions are not the same thing.

This is why the reasoning is so skewed in USA.  If I advertise in a small local newspaper it is not the same as a federal or nationwide newspaper. 

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4 hours ago, Arauna said:

I have given bibles to people with a nice bible verse and my name...... so they can remember who gave it to them and the occasion.

It seems that any normal activity which normal people do, is singled out by you to become a kind of "evil" deed.  I call you out for your accusing tone..... and for constantly appointing yourself as judge. It seems you have never made a mistake in your life and afterward thought- I should not have done that.

A friend gave me my bible because I left behind some books in USA.  You say it is somehow wrong of her to have put her name and date in it? 

I suppose how private activity of giving gifts is "normal", with or without signature.

GB members representing Private Company, an Organization with millions of members. But most of all they said how they representing and mediating between JHVH, Jesus and JW members.  In this aspect, all their activity is not just "normal activity", because they working on behalf of WTJWorg, and all their decisions and behavior, private and public, have to be looked through another glasses. 

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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

If there ever was an independent thinker who likes to explore new ideas, I am one of them.

 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

BUT - I do not teach bible students my own ideas and also not  in the congregation.

 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

I will chat with others about it but not openly advocate my own teachings.

 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

The reason being that if you really have christ in your heart you will not cause divisions in the congregation over non-essential things. 

Humans, not only You, but every of us, many times contradicting to themselves.

If you want to be submissive to your leaders, than there is no place for "exploring new ideas", because you have to wait for new ideas coming from GB and Helpers.

What you teach is not your ideas, but GB ideas.

If you "chat" about "improper ideas" with others you are walking "around the edge", according to JW publications.

"Causing division" is something normal according to Jesus, because he told how His teaching will cause family members to be apart, to renounce and to hate, according to Matt 10 and Luke 14.    

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57 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

submissive to your leaders, than there is no place for "exploring new ideas",

That is your interpretation of submissiveness which is wrong. As I said before - you have imperfect ideas about authority. 

I do not think like my husband in all things but I am willingly submissive because a peaceful house and cooperation is more important than my independence. 

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2 hours ago, Arauna said:
3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

we are taught TODAY ... today, 

I have to see this in writing....with a date on it........ do you have proof?

By "today", I mean in the last two or three years ...and of COURSE I have proof.

This is a clip of the infamous, globally distributed "pillowgate videos", put out by two "Helpers" of the Governing Body, and  were premiered about January 2018.   The previous references can be looked up in the Watchtowers of yesteryear, if memory serves, from the early 60's.

 

785761907_2CHAIRpORNEA(2).mp4

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

because they working on behalf of WTJWorg, and all thei

Yes, they realized this. That is why they are no longer doing this....... but detractors like you jump on the past to find things to critisize..... your MO does not change ...... fortunately they learn from the past and their's does...... 

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3 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

yesteryear, if memory serves, from the early 60's.

I thought as much.... ..... in the 60s was the first time the public had a sex revolution...... people did not discuss these things in private let alone publicly.  I have gone into the history of sex awareness and publication of these type of articles.... before 

 

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4 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Be a sport ...

So give me a list of situations YOU  think is unacceptable sexual behaviours -  I want to see where YOU will draw the line?  I also want you to give me a list of the offences (such as masterbation) and the 'punishment" you think it deserves.

I would gladly welcome YOUR opinion..... because I want to check your tremendous  insight and wisdom. 

I have learnt in life it is easy to judge others when you do not have good ideas yourself. You may judge other people too harshly. ...or too leniently...... so give me a decent sample of your wisdom...... ( no cartoons or jokes required).

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@James Thomas Rook Jr. quote " The question that needs to be asked is this ....  how can people be dumber than rocks? "

I would have thought that the question that needs to be asked is - ---  

How can anyone that has a bible trained conscience be part of this immoral, dishonest, and basically clueless CCJW Organisation ? 

As for Arauna, she seems to want to delve into sexual immorality. Whereas in scripture it just says this :-

Acts 15 v 28 & 29

 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29  to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality.

    Hello guest!
 If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”

Unless Arauna can show us where in scripture it breaks it down into specific acts. 

A Bible based conscience will know right from wrong. 

I think the GB were just perverted in their thoughts and suggestions. 

However I think James has made it quite clear that the GB does take over people's consciences and people's thinking ability. The conscience is like a muscle in your body. If the muscle is not used it weakens and becomes useless. So it is with your conscience, if it is not used regularly it stops working. This seems to be what happens with Elders and may congregants. They follow the GB's 'rules of men', they become 'robots', they lose their conscience because they no longer need it, because they just follow rules without questioning them.  

Arauna made a point about having independent thoughts but basically keeping those thoughts to ones self. 

James mentioned somewhere about people not being BRAVE enough to question the GB's interpretations.

IMO, the idea of personal study through prayer is to gain truth and spiritual wisdom. Why then would a person want to suppress spiritual wisdom and truth gained through prayer and personal study ? Especially when wrong could be made right in an important way. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Arauna said:

Yes, they realized this. That is why they are no longer doing this

 

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

I thought as much.... ..... in the 60s was the first time the public had a sex revolution...... people did not discuss these things in private let alone publicly.

Always excuses.

12 hours ago, Arauna said:

The reason being that if you really have christ in your heart you will not cause divisions in the congregation over non-essential things. 

Truth is not a revolving door.  If an anointed remains "in Christ" that one's teachings would be be proven as firm, - reliable, over the years.  John 15:16

 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."  John 15:1-4

If the fruit taught in the 60's, can be rejected today, then it was never sourced in Christ. If the fruit taught today is proven bogus, God expects us to reject it.  If we love our neighbor, we would not remain silent but speak up for righteousness.  We are told to examine the fruit and reject what is "bad".    Matt 7:15-20

Both Jesus and the apostles taught that there would most certainly be "divisions" in the congregations, based on teachings.  John 15:18-25  Interestingly, those who obey the words of Christ in John 15, and reject falsehoods, are "hated without reason" by their people.  

We embrace Christ's direction, not the wayward direction of uninspired men.   

 

"I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people."  Rom 16:17-18

 

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

How can anyone that has a bible trained conscience be part of this immoral, dishonest, and basically clueless CCJW Organisation ? 

 

 

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3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Arauna can show us where in scripture

It just uses the word  porneia..... and I would like to know what your punishment for it is.... and what porneia includes..... I see you all are afraid to stick your necks out because it is is not as easy at it looks.  It is easy to judge in generalities but when the responsibility becomes yours..... to judge and issue the punishment then it is a bit more difficult.

 

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Since I do not represent myself as a spokesman for God, it is immaterial what I 'would do, could do' should do" in regulating and PUNISHING people for what they do or do not do.

But I do know that it is creepy, perverted, overreaching, and DESTRUCTIVE on a very large scale for ANYONE to tell a Sister whose husband is having sex with men, or animals, that she is scripturally NOT free to divorce, and get OUT of that hell-hole,, or the same sort of overreaching IS STILL done today  in the infamous, creepy and perverted "pillowgate videos" ... a continuous 30 minute stream of complete nonsense regulating things about which Jehovah God has NOT EXPRESSED ANY OPINION ABOUT WHATSOEVER, only in the imaginations of the wrapped-too-tight delusional who are grasping at straws, and making up applications to scripture to suit their own cultural taboos.

If nothing else .. it is just plain, ordinary common sense, which the Society seems to have ZERO.

The specificity ... THE SPECIFICITY ... of those videos is absolute confirmation to me that there are serious, DANGEROUS things going on at Bethel, and with the Society's completely clueless and pharisaic leadership.

But, the way I look at it, it is no different than being in the Marines, when the Officer Corps goes off the deep end ..... in the Marines, and among Jehovah's Witnesses, we just have to endure the injustices ... as fidelity to God and Christ ... and we have a conscience that tells us what that entails ....

...and plain old everyday common sense, which apparently, is not all that common.

The Marines have the UCMJ, and we have the Bible.

Semper Fi.

 

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@Arauna Like you say it just uses the word porneia 

Quote and I would like to know what your punishment for it is.... and what porneia includes. "

For my part I wouldn't want to go beyond the things written, and I don't pretend to be inspired by God's Holy Spirit. So I cannot answer your two questions.

But it is your GB and their 'helpers' that have gone beyond the things written, because they admit to not being inspired by God, yet they still pretend to know the answers to your questions. And by their own mouths and written word they prove themselves to be so wrong. 

 

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I noticed a lot of other religions were not mentioned either, so your not the only ones not mentioned. But I'm afraid your trying to cry PERSECUTION because if you do a search, this is what comes up.....

    Hello guest!

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

and get OUT of that hell-hole

Scripturally, she could get out. Separation is always possible. But she was not free to remarry. So this often became a matter of not being able to get out of a marriage, economically.

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@James Thomas Rook Jr.  you continue to condemn the CCJW of which you are a part. 

quote "The specificity ... THE SPECIFICITY ... of those videos is absolute confirmation to me that there are serious, DANGEROUS things going on at Bethel, and with the Society's completely clueless and pharisaic leadership. "

But you still want to be part of it. And you use as an excuse this :-

the way I look at it, it is no different than being in the Marines, when the Officer Corps goes off the deep end ....

BUT the Marines ARE PART OF THIS WORLD so they have that excuse.

It is not good to pretend, either to yourself or others, that the CCJW is God's chosen organisation, then to compare it to a military part of the world.  

Do you really want to bring families with young children into that " serious, DANGEROUS.. organisation with it's " completely clueless and pharisaic leadership. "

My Bible trained conscience would not let me do so. 

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38 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Scripturally, she could get out. Separation is always possible. But she was not free to remarry. So this often became a matter of not being able to get out of a marriage, economically.

You strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel 

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37 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

You strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel 

I agree. It was wrong. Stupid wrong, and "creepy" wrong. But it's still good to be accurate.

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9 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:
10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Scripturally, she could get out. Separation is always possible. But she was not free to remarry. So this often became a matter of not being able to get out of a marriage, economically.

You strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel 

Jesus said: “Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication [porneia, gross sexual immorality], and marries another commits adultery.” (

    Hello guest!
) - 
    Hello guest!

One of problem here in verse is patriarchal look on world. Men are first and above women and above anything else. I don't know did Jesus really told this or not. If He is, i don't know why He said it this way and what sort of implications and complications would be if two married people make agreement and each go own way to form new family or new marriage with or without children. Because if two stay in problematic marriage there is also implications and complications.... for the rest of their life. 

Jesus entering completely new view on life and religion. I would expect from Him to understand all sort of problems and deviations and Bethel's PilowGate Instructions and examples in which human directives adding to world's injustice and tragedy ....inside "His" church. I guess, male people masturbated, was homosexuals and practice sodomy, in His time too, so how come to that, that He didn't mentioned nothing about such situations, that GB Helpers needed to add appendix and upgrade Master's teaching?

Jesus was aware, i guess, how women in His time was dependable on men's world, in many aspects including financial dependence. But, whether He would heal on Saturday or not? Would Jesus give advice and recommendation to sister in congregation how she should stay in marriage with sodomite husband or just separate and be alone and miserable for rest of her life?? Or would He encourage her to pray more and preach more and be regular on every meeting and all problem will gone?? Would Solomon say; bring me a sword and i will cut it into two peaces, a piece for each one of you? 

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I had a few thoughts.

Matthew 5 v 28 

    Hello guest!

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I presume this was aimed at men, and I would presume this also would apply if a woman were to lust after a man that she was not married to. 

So I did wonder, when a person masturbates would they be thinking about a specific other person. Thus they would be lusting after that other person, thereby committing either fornication or adultery in their heart. 

And if they were thinking about a person of their same sex, maybe they would be committing homosexuality in their heart. 

But if we are honest, we all know that at the time of teenage years the body goes through physical and emotional changes. Whist masturbation may be regarded as wrong, I think both God and Christ understand and are more merciful and forgiving. 

 

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2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

But I tell you that anyone who looks at 

What ever would be object/subject of our looking .... we are able to make that particular look to be sin of various gradation and intensity . Well, as imperfect or perfect human we shall be involved in particular situation and be in deep .....

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On 5/4/2020 at 10:23 PM, 4Jah2me said:

and I would like to know what your punishment for it is...

I asked you guys first - and I pointed out that it is easy to judge. But I want to know if a person should immediately be put out of the congregation for porneia -  and if one should consider degrees of porneia......since every situation usually is different i.e. was it spontaneous sin or was it planned etc.; and should these ones immediately be put out of congregation for porneia or their priviledges taken away  and progress reviewed.......  If one considers that it is usually the spirtually weak who get into these type of situations and get up to all kinds of 'unclean'  antics which may even include some perversion we are not aware of. People go after their desires. 

(I take my hat off to those who have to deal with these kind of  things.... I am glad I do not have to....... As someone aptly said above - jehovah knows what is done in secret and the motivations.  We can only judge the facts as they come out afterwards. Sometimes there  is an instigator and a follower but both as guilty of uncleanliness and or porneia )

You know - it is easy to say what another person should have done in hindsight and it is easy to judge too harshly....or too leniently........ something you guys do quite too often and quickly here on this forum. 

I would have thought that a bunch of old men would have more clarity - having been foolish young men yourselves at one stage of your lives.

 

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On 5/5/2020 at 8:34 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

I don't know did Jesus really told this or not. If He is

Do you accept that Jesus was a representative of Jehovah or not, and do you accept the Gospels as true or not....... that is the question.

On 5/5/2020 at 8:34 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

problem here in verse is patriarchal look on world. Men are

The new philosophy teaches that the bible is patriarchal and oppressive...... you seemed to have gulped it down in spoonfuls.

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Regarding legal separation.... I have not looked into this matter yet but one can surely draw up a legal document wherein the parties are not linked to each other economically - especially in the case of a gambler?

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On 5/4/2020 at 10:33 PM, Matthew9969 said:

your trying to cry PERSECUTION

No cry of persecution from us!  - just delight and relief!  Even THEY view us as no part of the noteworthy worldly system.

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On 5/4/2020 at 8:37 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

just plain, ordinary common sense, which the Society seems to have ZERO.

Thanks to Jehovah you are not judge and executioner because you are often over the top in your judgments.  

I find it amusing that people with no experience of having other people's spiritual lives in their hands are often the biggest judges of other's actions. 

This is why I asked the question..... must everyone be put out of the congregation for porneia? What would be your decision.  Will there be mitigating factors to take into consideration? 

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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Do you accept that Jesus was a representative of Jehovah or not, and do you accept the Gospels as true or not....... that is the question.

This is just one of few questions, and not rightly addressed to/for me, but for You too. Issue of "acceptance" and "beliefs" in/about religious matters, here, is in focus, of course. Individual inner sense, feeling about past events and records about such events is question or decision for individual to make. Something about issues we put in focus, is not reasonable to put as black and white format, and to say how not accepting your's beliefs is wrong. 

If i would say how i am fully accept Jesus and Gospel, that doesn't mean how in the same time i have to accept WTJWorg and GB doctrines, because of their claim how only they "have the truth" about Jesus and Gospel. :))   

..... and exactly that is the question you have to deal with. 

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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

The new philosophy teaches that the bible is patriarchal and oppressive...... you seemed to have gulped it down in spoonfuls.

Old Testament (Jew Law) promote few sorts of slavery, males (men) as owners of females (women) wars for land, superiority of one nation (ethnic and religious belonging, common among all nations until today). As any other nation old Jew nation have had good and bad things to show us.   

Their patriarchal system was customary for those time. Even Jesus, as i used Bible verse before, said - Jesus said: “Whoever divorces his wife...". Here is notable to see how man is in position to decide about divorce of his wife. Wife is not in position to divorce her husband. Law established this order. Wife is in possession of her husband, and not conversely.

Well yes, we have old and new philosophy. :)) Perhaps all people are equal before God. But women are not equal before/with men :)))

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I agree with @Srecko Sostar about acceptance of God, Jesus and Gospels. 

Most JWs cannot separate their religion, from God, Christ and the bible.

Most JWs think that if a person leaves the CCJW then that person has also left God and Christ and no longer believes the Bible. Mr Harley seems to be one of those that cannot get his head around the difference between God / Christ and the CCJW. 

But even sensible JWs admit to the wrongful interpretation of scriptures by the GB. And honest JWs admit to the horrible CSA problems within the CCJW. And many JWs say how wrong the shunning and disfellowshipping of innocent congregants is.  And I would think it came as a shock to some when the GB admitted to NOT being inspired of God. So the GB now admit they do as many others do. They study God's word through prayer, and then make their own interpretations. Many of those interpretations are turned into rules of men and have no real scriptural basis. 

The hypocrisy seems to appear when the GB 'change the meaning' of scriptures to suit their own needs. But JWs just accept the change as normal. Whereas people outside the CCJW may have known the true meaning many years before. Or in my case I realise that I am not supposed to guess or to know many things. It keeps me humble to know that it is a continuous learning curve. 

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9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

say how i am fully accept Jesus and Gospel, that

Then why are you doubting the scripture (Matthew 19) which says that divorce is only allowed on account of adultery?   If couples may not remarry after separation (without adultery) you do not accept this?. This is in line with scripture...  

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NWT Matthew 19 v 9 

 I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except on the grounds of sexual immorality, and marries another commits adultery.”

NWT says on account of 'sexual immorality' 

JW Org, definition :- 

Sexual immorality

From the Greek por·neiʹa, a general term for all unlawful sexual intercourse. It includes adultery, prostitution, sexual relations between unmarried individuals, homosexuality, and bestiality. It is used figuratively in Revelation with regard to a religious prostitute called “Babylon the Great” to describe her consorting with the rulers of this world for power and material gain. (

    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
)—See 
    Hello guest!
.

@AraunaIt just uses the word  porneia.... and what porneia includes ?

It seems your Org gives you the answer you want. However I've no idea how recent this info is as @James Thomas Rook Jr. wrote that it didn't include homosexuality, and bestiality.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Then why are you doubting the scripture (Matthew 19) which says that divorce is only allowed on account of adultery?   If couples may not remarry after separation (without adultery) you do not accept this?. This is in line with scripture...  

The key to understanding that scripture, Arauna is to understand WHO Jesus was speaking to .... specifically .... and what was the then common practice of divorce.... among that specific group.

Or do you believe that a man or woman is doomed to live the rest of their life alone, because their mate abandoned them to die, moves away, and never returns?

Remember, IT WAS THE DEATH PENALTY TO WORK ON THE SABBATH ..... but Jesus brought common sense to that argument, with the example of saving a lost sheep.

During the Las Vegas massacre several years ago, a man stole  a Utility Company truck in a parking lot to go into the line of fire, and take the wounded and dying to hospitals.

If he had been one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I suspect he would have been disfellowshipped as an un-repentent vehicle thief, as he admitted to doing it, was not sorry he did it, and the crime was public and notorious.

I read about it here in North Carolina ... it was world news.

Plus... he put his life in danger with total abandon.

Which REAL men do, from time to time, for all sorts of "un-approved" reasons.

 

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7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

It seems your Org gives you the answer you want. However I've no idea how recent this info is as @James Thomas Rook Jr. wrote that it didn't include homosexuality, and bestiality.

As usual, you misquote me .... I referenced that the WTB&TS, through the Watchtower, taught circa 1960's, that homosexuality and bestiality was not acceptable grounds for divorce. The logic was so convoluted, playing with scriptures, that it ruined MANY lives, under the imprimatur of "THE WORD OF GOD.

I did not write that.

I only reported that OTHERS wrote that.

... there is a difference.

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9 hours ago, Arauna said:

Then why are you doubting the scripture (Matthew 19) which says that divorce is only allowed on account of adultery?   If couples may not remarry after separation (without adultery) you do not accept this?. This is in line with scripture...  

"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” - Mat 19:9

"But I tell you, everyone who looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." - Mat 5:28

8 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

JW Org, definition :- 

Sexual immorality

From the Greek por·neiʹa, a general term for all unlawful sexual intercourse. It includes adultery, prostitution, sexual relations between unmarried individuals, homosexuality, and bestiality. It is used figuratively in Revelation with regard to a religious prostitute called “Babylon the Great” to describe her consorting with the rulers of this world for power and material gain. (

    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
    Hello guest!
)—See 
    Hello guest!
.

@AraunaIt just uses the word  porneia.... and what porneia includes ?

 

Now, we have a little problem. WTJWorg forget to put meaning of what adultery is from Mat 5.28 definition, "looks at woman with lust" .... is already adultery. Or we can expand application on each and every, on woman who looks on man, or on one homosexual/lesbian who looks on other heterosexual person or on another homosexual/lesbian person with lust. 

Well, WTJworg definition of "por.nei'a" is not perfect, it is with a significant disadvantage. "Unlawful sexual intercourse" or por.nei'a, according to Jesus, is "looks with lust". Taken from this, husband and wife just need to see, to prove to self, how some of them has/had that "looks with lust" and is free to divorce and to remarry. :))

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4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

say three times "

Talaaq, talaaq, talaaq.  Yes, super quick divorse.  Husbands do not say it quickly because of this problem: The wife may not go back to her husband until she has slept with another man. 

In England one can see advertisements of men offering these kind of services at great prices.  The women do not want to do this but are forced into it.

Sometimes the Imam offers these services himself. Very conveniently.  How did this come to be?

Mo.ha.m.mad accidentally saw his adopted son's  wife and wanted her. So his son, to please the prophet, divorced her.  Some other people were shocked because it was not part of their traditions before..... So Mohammad came up with this sharia rule: his son can take her back but only after another man had had her delights. It is in chapter 33.  In this chapter the prophet laments that he will wait on ' Allah ' to see if he can have this woman.  The son wanted to keep his favor and divorces her. He later took her back.

Beautiful religion heh? Pity no-one writes about these and the many other sexual perversions in the pagan  "religion of peace" . These perversions are part of the religion and many more perversions. 

It also changed the rule about adopting. Islam does not adopt children so you can become the adopter's child.  So this new rule cleared the wonderful prophet of taking his sons wife.  

Under sharia jurisprudence you may look after a child but not adopt them.

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5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

we have a little problem.

Yes, you did not read my question properly.... so let's leave it at that.

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13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Witnesses, I suspect he would have been disfellowshipped as an un-repentent vehicle thief, as he admitted to doing it, was not sorry he did it, and the crime was public and notorious.

 

For someone who says that we should have more common sense you surely know how to "run with your own exaggerations and accusations" asif you already know  what JWs would have done in the situation.  Judge and executioner........So keep looking in your kristal ball - it will get you everlasting life!

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Quote @Arauna " Beautiful religion heh? Pity no-one writes about these and the many other sexual perversions in the pagan  "religion of peace "

'Pot calling the kettle black', if you know that expression. 

And it seems you are writing about these things yourself. So please do not be unhappy when others write about the Child Sexual Abuse within the CCJW. 

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33 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

please do not be unhappy when others write about

We do not condone these things as Islam does. So why do you just focus on JWs only when you can cast your eyes elsewhere? It is because of OCD - vendetta mentality and......  I guess that is all you know.... so I do not blame you.... your scope is really too small.... just focussed on one thing.... So I leave it at that. It is really not worth arguing with you - you dwell on one subject only..... it consumes you...... OCD.  Not wasting my time to talk to you. 

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58 minutes ago, Arauna said:

..So keep looking in your kristal ball - it will get you everlasting life!

..I could not tell is you were being sarcastic or earnest in your comment.

I have to give it my "best shot", guessing to the best of my ability, using my experience and common sense ... often using the "smell test", and have to actually bet my life on the conclusions I reach.

If I guess, or decide wrongly, I of course have to pay the price ... and that can be anything from years of misery, to instant death, or worse.

If I rely on "Sky Pilots" for their wisdom, and THEY are wrong, I STILL have to pay the price, still anything from years of misery, to instant death, or worse.

.... AND THEY PAY NO PRICE WHATSOEVER !

..... while sitting under a waterfall of free money that never stops.

 

 

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I think they will pay a big price. 

Moses never entered the Promised Land and I don't think they will enter one either. 

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@JW Insider Pretty much the power of the glorious search engine on the website. Likewise anything pertaining to other faiths, even the Unitarian, you have to search for.

On 5/7/2020 at 2:51 PM, 4Jah2me said:

I think they will pay a big price. 

Moses never entered the Promised Land and I don't think they will enter one either. 

You cannot assume for the majority, for God knows his people, who is for him regardless of where they are, their background, etc.

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On 5/7/2020 at 10:51 PM, 4Jah2me said:

Moses never entered the promised land

You gave a quick soundbyte without thinking it through. Moses made mistakes and was punished - not condemned to gehenna. He will get his ressurrection. Same with today's slave, they make mistakes but will not be condemned to second death.

If you were appointed  in the place of God, I am sure all would get Gehenna!  That is why you can not be  a JW..... you have lost your humanity and mercy on other humans.  God himself says if you hate your neighbour in this way - you have no life in you. You are a vehicle of death.  Satan is the father of death..... so think through your  way of thinking and repent. 

 

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3 hours ago, Arauna said:

Same with today's slave, they make mistakes but will not be condemned to second death.

It's wise to define mistakes.  Moses clearly was an inspired prophet of God.  We have written evidence that God worked through him. Parting the Red Sea was not by his power, but by the power of God. 

We have clear evidence that prophesy made by Watchtower leaders was never under inspiration from God.  We also have clear understanding from God through his prophet Moses, what to expect will happen to false prophets.

 But a prophet who presumes to speak in My name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”

21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.  Deut 18:20-22

Being a false prophet is not dismissed by a slap of the hand from God.  If a leader expects obedience to his words that fail time and time again; and then makes the judgment call of spiritual death on someone for rejecting his leadership, would you call that an act of "humanity and mercy on other humans"?  Thousands who have accepted Christ's leadership over the leadership of a wicked slave, have been sanctioned as spiritually dead.  

 

“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.  Matt 24:9-13

 

 

 

    Hello guest!

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Arauna said:

You gave a quick soundbyte without thinking it through. Moses made mistakes and was punished - not condemned to gehenna. He will get his ressurrection. Same with today's slave, they make mistakes but will not be condemned to second death.

If Moses made only that one famous mistake, i would expect from God to forgive him, and not in the future time, after/with Resurrection, but in the very moment in the past. Perhaps God thought how Moses need extra lesson. 

It is interesting how You made conclusion, about GB, how they making similar mistakes as Moses, but not deserve immediate punishment as in his case. Does this mean how GB never was and never will make such sort of "mistake" and will enter into Promised Land despite those "mistakes"?

What makes GB's and Moses's mistakes to be so different and not calls for same sort of treatment, not calls for using same Principles ?? 

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5 hours ago, Arauna said:

You gave a quick soundbyte without thinking it through. Moses made mistakes and was punished - not condemned to gehenna. He will get his ressurrection. Same with today's slave, they make mistakes but will not be condemned to second death.

If you were appointed  in the place of God, I am sure all would get Gehenna!  That is why you can not be  a JW..... you have lost your humanity and mercy on other humans.  God himself says if you hate your neighbour in this way - you have no life in you. You are a vehicle of death.  Satan is the father of death..... so think through your  way of thinking and repent. 

 

@Arauna  I really get the feeling you are frightened of my words. The hate seems to come from you not me. 

As I've said before though  I must be careful with my words, remembering that john Butler was disfellowshipped from this blog by the Elders here. 

Moses was not of the Anointed so his resurrection will be here on this Earth. The Governing Body say that they are Anointed, and have only recently admitted to not being inspired by God. If they are of the Anointed then i would presume their sins are sins against the Spirit which may not be forgivable. They are saying that they are the 'faithful and discreet slave', but they act more like the evil slave that beats their fellow slaves. They misuse scripture and make up rules to put pressure on the congregation. 

To quote you  That is why you can not be  a JW..... you have lost your humanity and mercy on other humans. 

But I say to you that your GB have lost their humanity and mercy, because they allow the Victims of Child Sexual Abuse to continue to suffer and they continue to hide paedophiles in the CCJW.  The GB continue to degrade the Anointed whilst giving praise to the Elders. They continue to tell congregants to do personal Bible study but condemn those same congregants if they find truth from the scriptures which proves the GB wrong. 

Concerning your GB :- 

Matthew 7 v 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Matthew 7 v 21 through 23  “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22  Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works

    Hello guest!
 in your name?’
    Hello guest!
 23  And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew
    Hello guest!
 you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

 

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