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My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side


Kosonen
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6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

 

@JW Insider  you first paragraph seems to fit the GB very well and I quote :-

you have also provided an "audit trail" of failed time-based interpretations and predictions. you continue to present yourself as an anointed person who actually wants to be seen as a modern day prophet. 

Hmm. I fell right into that one. But, of course, I agree that it very easily happens to anyone who tries to go into the "times and seasons" arena, where even angels fear to tread. If persons take themselves too seriously, they will want to be seen as a prophet, in spite of a string of past failures. It's an interesting phenomenon. And yes, I agree that even Barbour, Russell, Rutherford, Woodworth, FWFranz, etc continued to believe in "times and seasons" that were the result of a string of failures. No need to repeat it all here.

However, in favor of the Governing Body, I would say that they stopped trying to represent themselves as a "prophet." The last time I saw that phrase directly tied to the representatives of "the faithful and discreet slave" was back in 1971 and 1972, and this was undoubtedly part of FWFranz' promotion of his 1975 expectations.

I have seen much more careful language around dates and a complete lack of predictions among this particular group of men making up the Governing Body. Dates are rarely emphasized at all compared to the 1975 era.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

In truth though I think it is sad that you've brought this idea of being mentally unstable into the equation. I know this is a ploy of the GB to say that some people are mentally disturbed, but I think it is wrong to put such a label directly on someone.

I think it's a valid concern, for himself and those close to him. I don't think that anyone here has begun looking to the constellation Virgo and a few stray planets for the sign of the woman in Revelation 12, and I don't think anyone is seriously considering taking airplanes to Australia to ride out whatever plagues are left in God's quiver. But he is showing signs that should make all of us feel concern for him, and a desire to help him. This does not mean that the rest of us are all that mentally balanced ourselves. But I think we should all be sensitive to how certain phrases and ideas might reveal problems that might need to be dealt with.

This might even be the same reason that the GB brings it up. To try to make sure people are aware of mental issues and how they sometimes reveal themselves. And, I think we all know from experience that there really is a correlation between those who claim to be of the anointed (in some congregations) and those in need of mental health assistance. I cringe a bit myself when it is sometimes pointed out just before the Memorial celebration, but this is probably the best time to be reminded, just before your kids or your Bible students decide to go ask Sister Talks-To-Herself-During-Meetings how she knows she is of the anointed.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

All people that do not worship the Governing Body and do not obey without question, must be either, Apostate, Opposer or / and Mentally ill.

There are valid levels of concern about what constitutes "worship" but the Governing Body would likely consider anyone who wants to worship them to be either apostate or mentally ill. It would go against clear counsel by the Governing Body themselves. And the only ones who would obey without question are those who are exaggerating or misinterpreting the Bible's counsel to obey those taking the lead. The GB does not ask people to simply obey without question. Obedience is always in the context of knowing which reminders coming from the GB are repetitions of counsel found in the Bible. Another level of obedience is considered in the context of unknown circumstances ahead when it may be necessary to humbly follow instructions from elders or those in the lead. We won't always be able to understand, or we might even disagree, but we will humbly follow along so that we don't end up creating worse circumstances for everyone. If a coach thinks a certain move is best for a strategic football play, then even if you think you know a better play, you'd best work with the team, or else your own ideas will just ruin the play altogether. It's easy to exaggerate quotes about obedience and think they mean something they don't.

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Jan Kosonen, @Kosonen In several places online, you have seen fit to provide your name, your email address, and much of your personal history. But you have also provided an "audit trail" of failed time-based interpretations and predictions. I began to point this out before and you do not appear back away from this history. Instead you continue to present yourself as an anointed person who actually wants to be seen as a modern day prophet. I began to write a paraphrase of your letter as

To the extent that they were not convinced in their own mind, then yes, they were potentially going against their own conscience. But in their Bible-based training, how many elders actually question the blood doctrine, for example, as if it is man-made? I think that almost all elders are convinced in their own mind that this comes directly from Jehovah because it's found in Acts 15 & 21. If someone were to tell an elder that organ transplants were no different than blood transfusions be

That's a stretch of logic. No one is saying that all DFs are done correctly, but you can't say that a mistake is done on purpose just because it turned out to be wrong. A teacher can mark a student wrong for spelling potato as potatoe, but that doesn't mean the teacher made the mistake on purpose. Disfellowshipping is not "killing." That's just another mistake, too. Jehovah sees the heart no matter what mistakes are made on earth.

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2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

But what must be remembered is that we are all imperfect, so none of us are mentally well balanced. 

 

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The issue of mental health, unfortunately, is still touchy.

Mental illnesses are also called mental disorders. They are extremely common in the population. Australia and US 1 of 5 live with mental illness, globally 1 of 10. 

 

    Hello guest!
    

    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!

List of disorders is long. 

    Hello guest!
  

There are nearly 300 mental disorders listed in the DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders). This is a handbook used by health professionals to help identify and diagnose mental illness. - 

    Hello guest!

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I do think you will be seen as one of hundreds of mentally disturbed and imbalanced persons who has associated with Jehovah's Witnesses.

1) Does "free will", as gift from god or as our imagined concept, contribute to this problem, cause it? Always present problem of what we want and wish on one side and what we may, must and should on another.

2) Is Gospel sort of magnet for "disturbed and imbalanced" people, if we have in mind who, what sort of people Jesus called and expected to follow Him (people who are rejected from society, who "suffered" )?

3) Does, whether JW's who left WTJWorg are good material to be more imbalanced and have mental issues? Or Organization as complete/ finalized system created individuals who would/will be "lost" without Organization?   

......etc.

 

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15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You show a lot of bravery and boldness in sending your letters as you have. But you also display a lot of haughtiness in a way that makes me think you are likely not always aware of how you come across to other people

Hi JW Insider, you know people are different with different strong and weak sides. And some have special gifts that they are born with. Think about John the Baptist. He spoke very strongly and boldly and lived an abnormal life in the desert. And apostle Paul was not either a normal apostle. But he was gifted with special skills and exceptional drive for the good news. 

Persons that are able to make extraordinary things that impact the world around them extraordinarily are usually odd persons. 

Many inventors are also odd persons. Some have analyzed what they have in common and they have found that many of them actually have the Aspergers' syndrome.

Thanks to their extraordinary capabilities, they can figure out new things quite easily, and its sad when the majority has difficultis to recognize fast enough that they often come with valuable new findings. 

But I don't take credit for the more accurate knowledge I have gained. Because if Jehovah God would not had let me understand, I would not had understood, despite the fact that I am quite good at figuring out how things really work.

And I was appalled by the latest WT study edition so I prayed to Jehovah God to get an idea what could be done when the WT organization stubbornly refuses to correct themselves. And I got at once an idea, thanks to God, that I have to dubble down. And write them a whole list of their errors and do a cowork with God. Yes, according to the logic in God's word, a warning has to be given first, only after that can Jehovah force a change by some kind of punishment. 

So, JW insider, I can not see were my logic failed in this case, from a biblical point of view. 

I think I followed the examples of biblical persons such as John the Baptist and apostle Paul.

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6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But many of his points have gone off into complete fantasy, too, imo. Mixing those issues together will lose any audience even where good points are made.

You could consider how Br. Russell learned many new things. He also went "everywhere" and found scatered pieces of truths. Nothing wrong with that. Just important to have God's help to pick the thuths and not any false ideas. I believe if we sincerely everyday pray for guidance and protection in our search for a more accurate understanding, then we will not get lost.

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6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But many of his points have gone off into complete fantasy, too, imo. Mixing those issues together will lose any audience even where good points are made.

You could consider how Br. Russell learned many new things. He also went "everywhere" and found scatered pieces of truths. Nothing wrong with that. Just important to have God's help to pick the thuths and not any false ideas. I believe if we sincerely everyday pray for guidance and protection in our search for a more accurate understanding, then we will not get lost.

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@Kosonen What you say in the first above comment to JWI, makes good sense, whereas your letter seems to be making too many demands or too much to focus on at once. 

And your idea of literally flying off to the wilderness is just your personal viewpoint, which you are entitled to of course. But you do not sound mentally unbalanced in your above comment. 

And I like the idea of people from the Anointed making direct remarks to the GB. The idea of giving the GB a warning sounds sensible, but of course will upset the GB followers. Whether any letters at all actually get to the GB is another thing, but as I've mentioned before, 'With God all things are possible'. 

 

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I don't think anyone is seriously considering taking airplanes to Australia 

But I feel more and more urgency and such a coincidence, thousands of empty planes all around the world, cheap jet fuel, lock down, empty kingdom halls. Its like the perfect moment for all witnesses to go to Australia together. Empty useless kingdom halls could now easily be sold before departure. And soon is the summer. Jesus said we should pray that our flight would not occur in winter time. Can there come any better time?

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44 minutes ago, Kosonen said:

So, JW insider, I can not see were my logic failed in this case, from a biblical point of view. 

I think I followed the examples of biblical persons such as John the Baptist and apostle Paul.

Thanks for answering. Most of what you in this last post are things I think we can all agree with.

However, I was already sure that you could not see where your logic failed. And I was already sure that you were trying to follow the examples of Biblical persons like John the Baptist, the apostle Paul and others like them.

Understand that this is not some kind of accusation. But, in case it isn't already clear, you should be aware that others will commonly see symptoms of various disorders.when they read your words. Perhaps you already know this. I mentioned a brother above, and I was one of his best friends at Bethel. I spoke to him a few times and we corresponded about his "Alex Jones" type beliefs that he somehow had managed to conflate with the our books on Daniel and Isaiah and Revelation. He was interesting and very clever at rationalizing how extremely unlikely things could just happen. Those things didn't happen but that didn't seem to bother him. There was always another feature to add to the mix.

It also seemed to me that he was losing a grip on reality, and I thought he should seek some help. His family, mother and brother, were noticing the same. Within a few years, he was losing jobs although skilled. Later he lost his marriage, lost his visiting rights to his child, and even got himself arrested once for acting out in a threatening way to a stranger. (A huge surprise as he was always quiet, unassuming, sweet, calm, etc.) He was even homeless before admitting his financial issues when he finally moved back in to his parents' home. Although I tried to encourage him nicely, he stopped talking to me for hinting that some of his "scriptural" fantasies might be related to his mental health. That was probably my own stupidity for not knowing how to talk to someone in his situation. These days I can only find out how he is doing by calling his brother, or his elderly mother.

So, I'm sorry about reacting based on my personal experience with someone else, but there are just more similarities to you own experience than you would ever believe. And, of course, here I go again not minding my business. But I feel kind of obligated. I hope you understand. 

So, I still wanted to know if persons you trust also feel that you might find some benefit from a mental health check-up. And if they do feel that way, I wondered if you would consider seeking that kind of health assistance.

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28 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

What you say in the first above comment to JWI, makes good sense, whereas your letter seems to be making too many demands or too much to focus on at once. 

Yes, that was the point to make all the demands in one letter. To show them how wrong and mistaken they are. To brake their illusion that they are truly in the truth. If you have read the July study edition, you could see how hard the WT organization tries to convince its members that everything is fine with their doctines, especially their explanations about end time prophecies. But they are completely off. And the main reason is that they are based on 1914. 

And secondly, when the next blow hits the WT, they might be more inclined to look at all the things I pointed out in the letter. 

Otherwise they could underestimate how far astray they really are.

And I feel a strong urgency of the timing of our flight according to Revelation 12:6. So there has to happen a lot of correction fast. 

I have already sent letters last year to all branch offices in the world about the need to flee to Australia as soon the persecution begins in USA against the WT. But the only thing I have heard back are all the WT articles that distort the true meaning of Ezekiel 38 and Daniel 11 etc.

So they have had time to think through the subject. But they have failed to believe what must be done. 

So I felt I have to double down and tell them that they teach at least 30 teachings wrong. The problem is not just one or two false teachings, but tens.

They have to wake up. Because the prophecies in the Bible have to get thier fulfillment concerning the symbolic woman's flight with wings of a great eagle to the safe place described in Ezekiel 38 until Gog comes to threaten to plunder.

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23 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

So, I still wanted to know if persons you trust also feel that you might find some benefit from a mental health check-up. And if they do feel that way, I wondered if you would consider seeking that kind of health assistance

You know, Jehovah and Jesus helped apostle Paul to survive and John the Baptist surely had Jehovah God's protection and help to survive in the desert. So I think that is the example to follow. To pray Jehovah's help with the daily life. About 10 years ago my wife wanted that I go and check if I have the Aspergers syndrom. So I was diagnozed. It was very thorough. It took 4 sessions 2 hours each. My mental capabilities got tested with various types of tests.

And the advice I got was to just be myself and to try to find my place in the world. And to use my talents. But I try also to lower the intensity of my emotions by for example Ashwagandha root powder. 2 tea spoons a day. 

And I have read some books for Aspergers with advices for us. And I have also learnt quite a lot from youtube. I appreciated many of the advices on a youtube chanel named 'brainy dose'.

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