My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side

[Arauna]

 

On 5/9/2020 at 9:37 PM, Kosonen said:

sanctification is the most important thing.

Well, the bible says one must not be wise in your own eyes.  Can one really take it upon oneself to criticize the translation of the lord's prayer? Jesus himself taught his followers to pray for the 'sanctification' of Jehovah's name.... so Jesus was wrong in teaching us to pray for his father's name to be sanctified?  Is Jehovah God not pure and holy?  Should He not be viewed as separate from everything else? Above every other human-made god and thing and above the angels and everything else in heaven?

Jesus came to earth to sanctify his fathers name by setting the example of how we should live. He became the chief agent for Jehovah's purpose to be completed. He would be the ransom sacrifice and guarantor for mankind to be brough back into a perfect relationship with Jehovah.  The purpose is to restore imperfect humans back into a direct relationship with Jehovah, a relationship which Adam willfully broke. 

The kingdom of Jesus will restore us to Jehovah - not Jesus. Jehovah is so great and so pure...... yet most people view Jesus as equal to him.  This is a lie.  Jesus himself taught that only his father is good. Jesus is NOT equal to god and never can be because he is a creation of God - even if he is a perfect reflection of his father.  He is a mere 'reflection' of the real thing - the reality the truth.  God is also Jesus' father (life-giver)  "John20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothersa and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Fatherb and your Father and to my Godc and your God.’”

"Our father in heaven, may your name be sanctified." The book of Mathew was originally written in Hebrew - and eventually translated by Mathew himself into Greek (if I remember correctly).

While JWs relied heavily on personalities for some of our teachings in our past history, do you not think that they keep doing research when they teach us the importance of the sanctification of the name of God? Do they not revise and correct some of the past teachings? So why is it that this fundamental truth is still with us?

Here is a link to Hebrew scholar Nehemia Gordon going into the word "sanctification" as opposed to 'hallowed':   He says that Jews can pray this prayer and goes into the fact that the Hebrew scriptures also calls Jehovah "father" many times.  Why?  well the word father means "life-giver" so why would you not sanctify the one who is responsible for your life and everything else?

 

What I do not understand is this:  why do people not think things through before criticizing? 

It is only when all people on earth let go of their false gods and their own  ideas.... and all serve Jehovah in unity and truly "sanctify" him that there will ever be peace of earth.  When all revere only that one name and without question follow all the wonderful qualities and principles/laws associated with that name.  

I read a bit of the book of revelation again this week and all the scenes in heaven show the angels and all created beings falling before Jehovah and praising him.  He is worthy of all praise. .....We can only be sanctified if we are in total and perfect harmony with Jehovah, like Jesus was. Please read the entire John 17 - Jesus' prayer the night he died to Jehovah.  He mentioned Jehovah's name so many times in the prayer.  "john 17: Sanctify them by means of the truth;c your word is truth.d ¹⁸  Just as you sent me into the world, I also sent them into the world.e ¹⁹  And I am sanctifying myself in their behalf, so that they also may be sanctified by means of truth.

Jehovah is the absolute standard for sanctification / purity and truth.

[JW Insider]

On 5/9/2020 at 1:37 PM, Kosonen said:

You have to stop denigrating Jesus' sufferings and love for humans and mankind. The WT society teaches that Jesus' agony before his trial was because his death would bring reproach on Jehovah. Because he would be killed as a criminal besides two criminals. No, that is false. Jesus was in agony because the knew how much physical pain he would have to feel. Having a true understanding of this allows one to feel pity for Jesus and to fully appreciate the sacrifice he did for mankind out of love for us. Jesus was not worried about the disgrace his death on a torture stake would cause, to the contrary it was a cause of glory for him and for Jehovah God. (John 12:23; John 13:31-33; Hebrews 12:2)

The Bible doesn't exactly say why Jesus showed so much agony even in his prayers to God. But, again, the Watchtower already contains many articles highlighting his humanity and his love. Even the verses about his extreme suffering are no longer applied specifically to the potential reproach his death could bring. Note the word "evidently" in the following:

*** w07 2/15 p. 27 pars. 15-16 “Children, Be Obedient to Your Parents” ***
Jesus’ mental and physical suffering became so great that the Bible says that he “offered up supplications and also petitions . . . with strong outcries and tears.” (Hebrews 5:7) When did this happen?
16 In particular, it occurred during the final hours of Jesus’ earthly life when Satan made an all-out attempt to break His integrity. Jesus was evidently so tortured by thoughts of how his death as a supposed evildoer might reflect badly on his Father’s reputation that as “he continued praying [in the garden of Gethsemane] his sweat became as drops of blood falling to the ground.” A few hours later, his manner of death on a torture stake was so painful that Jesus uttered “strong outcries [with] tears.” (Luke 22:42-44; Mark 15:34) He thus “learned obedience from the things he suffered” and thereby made his Father’s heart rejoice. Now in heaven, Jesus feels our pain as we often struggle to be obedient.—Proverbs 27:11; Hebrews 2:18; 4:15.

I don't see anyone minimizing the pain. This is even seen in the hundreds of times when the Watchtower highlights the translation of "stauros" as a torture stake, not just some iconic, spiritual symbol. And we should remember that the "stauros" was specifically intended to bring pain, shame and humiliation, which is why the Romans even stripped away the undergarments to expose the nakedness and powerlessness and humiliation of the one tortured.

So, I think it is still is a point worth considering that the "cup" was the potential humiliation and shame on God's name. Some would even see  Christianity as "accursed" over this. But this need not discredit the pain and love Jesus showed. Since about the time of that article above, I see both aspects highlighted.

*** w06 10/1 p. 21 par. 2 Courage Strengthened by Love ***
Yes, love can impel humans to show outstanding courage. Jesus Christ himself stated: “No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his soul in behalf of his friends.” (John 15:13) Less than 24 hours after Jesus said these words, he gave his own life, not for just one person, but for mankind. (Matthew 20:28) Moreover, Jesus did not offer up his life in a spur-of-the-moment act of bravery. He knew in advance that he would be ridiculed and abused, unjustly sentenced, and put to death on a torture stake. He even prepared his disciples for this outcome, saying: “Here we are, advancing up to Jerusalem, and the Son of man will be delivered to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death and will deliver him to men of the nations, and they will make fun of him and will spit upon him and scourge him and kill him.”—Mark 10:33, 34.

*** ws17 August p. 25 par. 15 How We Put On and Keep On the New Personality ***
When Jesus was in extreme pain on the torture stake, he asked his Father to forgive the men who put him to death. He said: “They do not know what they are doing.” (Luke 23:34) Even when Jesus was under stress or in pain, he remained mild and patient.—Read 1 Peter 2:21-23.

*** ws16 April p. 12 par. 10 “Let Endurance Complete Its Work” ***
Even Jesus could have felt that way. When he was being executed on the torture stake, he was humiliated and in a lot of pain. This must have been the most difficult time in his life! What helped him endure? The Bible says that he looked at “the joy that was set before him.”

*** w09 9/15 p. 11 par. 1 Be Obedient and Courageous as Christ Was ***
These enemies caused Jesus intense mental, emotional, and physical pain. Ultimately, they succeeded in bringing about his death on the torture stake

*** w10 8/15 p. 5 Resist the Pressure of Public Opinion ***
In order to maintain his integrity to Jehovah, Jesus underwent the most dishonorable execution possible. “He endured a torture stake, despising shame.” (Heb. 12:2) Jesus’ enemies slapped him, spat on him, stripped him, flogged him, impaled him, and reviled him. (Mark 14:65; 15:29-32) Yet, Jesus despised the shame that they attempted to heap on him. How? He refused to shrink from such treatment. Jesus knew that he lost no dignity in Jehovah’s eyes, and he certainly sought no glory from men. Even though Jesus died the death of a slave, Jehovah dignified him by resurrecting him and giving him the most honorable place next to Him. At Philippians 2:8-11, we read: “[Christ Jesus] humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”
Jesus was not insensitive to the feelings of disgrace that accompanied his execution. Possible dishonor to his Father resulting from Jesus’ being condemned for blasphemy was a matter of concern to God’s Son. Jesus asked Jehovah to spare him such indignity. “Remove this cup from me,” he prayed. But Jesus submitted to God’s will. (Mark 14:36) Still, Jesus withstood the pressures brought to bear on him and despised the shame.

[JW Insider]

On 5/9/2020 at 1:37 PM, Kosonen said:

3. You have to stop denigrating Jesus' brothers, the anointed among the congregations. They are the firstfruits and they are Jesus' brothers (James 1:8; Revelation 14:4; Matthew 25:31-46)

This supposed denigration is no doubt from the reminders that not all the claimed anointed are really anointed. This is actually a good reminder. I'm pretty sure that it's true. Of course, it should remind us that this also goes for any persons claiming to be anointed, persons who wish to be seen as "superfine apostles," persons who may have begun partaking to gain respect or authority, persons who only desire to be seen as something special. It's not just the ones who might seem crazy to others. In fact, Jehovah can see a pure "heart" of someone where we might only see an unhealthy mind.

So, I'm sure you have a good point here. But the intent is primarily to explain why the numbers of the anointed are rising when the WTS writers expect them to decrease. It's not about individuals, but just a reminder that a percentage of these claimants are probably not truly anointed. But they obviously acknowledge that the truly anointed should not be denigrated. It's just that we can't judge individually who is and who is not.

The Bible itself indicates that not all members of the anointed will ultimately gain the "prize."

[JW Insider]

On 5/9/2020 at 1:37 PM, Kosonen said:

4. You have to stop teaching false teachings about: 1914, 1260, 1290, 1335, 2300 days, when Satan was thrown down to earth, the seven headed beast in Revelation 13, the image of the beast, the mark of the beast, the woman and her flight in Revelation 12, who is Babylon the Great, the generation, the disgusting thing causing desolation, the king of the north, the fierce-looking king, the horn that has eyes and a mouth, Daniel 11:29-45, Armageddon, the time of the earthly resurrection, Elijah in the end time, who is the discreet and faithful slave, women's role in the congregation and what is prescribed and what is not allowed them, who is the man of lawlessness, Israel's status in the end time, the meaning of the overseer should be husband of one wife. (1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:6; Mark 10:11,12)

I'm guessing that you are from 0 to 50 percent correct on the first three items.

I'd think you were 100 percent correct on this one, except that the WTS is expressing their interpretation of these ideas, and you have your own which you have determined to be better. In other words you are just doing the same thing the WTS is doing. You are interpreting scriptures in a way that seems right to you. You have no better or worse track record than they do with such numbers.

The WTS has already changed their view on some of these numbers and dates, and so have you. For all we know, these numbers have nothing to do with specific dates after the first century. We don't actually have any prophecies about world empires that definitely go past that of the Roman empire. Perhaps it's just our DESIRE to see more world empires predicted, that makes us add to the list that Daniel and Revelation speak about.

So it's very possible that none of us are supposed to try to do anything at all with these dates, as they may have all been fulfilled in the first century. Perhaps all prophecy pointed to the time of Christ. After all, Hebrews speaks of the "last days" already beginning in the first century. Acts speaks of the "last days" beginning in the first century. So does Paul when he explains to Timothy that he is seeing certain behaviors among the congregations because these things were predicted for those "last days" they lived in. Peter and Jude also refer to the kinds of ridiculers showing up in their own time, and they shouldn't be surprised, because such persons had been predicted to show up in those last days. Even John in his letters shows that the "last hour" has begun.

(1 John 2:18) . . .Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour.

To all these Bible writers, the point "now" (in these last days) is not to get involved with attempts to encroach upon a realm that is the Father's jurisdiction, but to be concerned with what kinds of persons we ought to be. Time predictions should be the last thing on our mind.

The Bible writer James, is one who uses the term "last days" as if he is speaking of a future time ("last days" of the "last days") but he is very informative about how we should deal with this short time. And I think it also concerns your expectations of a necessary flight to Australia or similar ideas:

(James 4:13-16) 13 Come, now, you who say: “Today or tomorrow we will travel to this city and will spend a year there, and we will do business and make some profit,” 14 whereas you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. For you are a mist that appears for a little while and then disappears. 15 Instead, you should say: “If Jehovah wills, we will live and do this or that.” 16 But now you take pride in your arrogant boasting. All such boasting is wicked.

You are not looking for "profit" of course, but to think that we can predict anything about tomorrow, or where we should make plans to go is just "boasting." And all such boasting is wicked.

(James 5:3-8) . . .What you have stored up will be like a fire in the last days. . . . 7 Be patient then, brothers, until the presence of the Lord. Look! The farmer keeps waiting for the precious fruit of the earth, exercising patience over it until the early rain and the late rain arrive. 8 You too exercise patience; make your hearts firm, because the presence of the Lord has drawn close.

[JW Insider]

On 5/9/2020 at 1:37 PM, Kosonen said:

5. You have to stop going to court against individuals or organizations etc on copyright issues. (1 Corinthians 6:1-8)

This is an opinion of yours. I would also prefer that the WTS not go after anyone on copyright issues as it makes them appear to be a part of the world in looking out for their own interests rather than just turning the other cheek. After all, the good news can get promoted even if the person is not promoting it for a good purpose

(Philippians 1:15-18) 15 True, some are preaching the Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter are proclaiming the Christ out of love, for they know that I have been appointed to defend the good news; 17 but the former do it out of contentiousness, not with a pure motive, for they are intending to create trouble for me in my prison bonds. 18 With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this.. . .

But the idea of defending the good news can also make use of the "superior authorities." Paul used his Roman citizenship. By extension, copyright laws are another legal means of protecting the "context" of some teachings, which can be important when so many are happy to create fake news and rip things out of context. Therefore in the same chapter as above Paul points to the idea of "legally establishing" the good news.

(Philippians 1:7) . . .and in the defending and legally establishing of the good news.

 

[JW Insider]

On 5/9/2020 at 1:37 PM, Kosonen said:

6. You have to stop disfellowshipping brothers and sisters based on not agreeing with the WT organization's false teachings.

You already know that this is not done on purpose. It is done because the WT believes those teachings worth disfellowshipping over are both true and important. While there may be false or at least questionable teachings, the persons doing the disfellowshipping are sure they are performing a sacred service, rooting out apostates, etc.

On 5/9/2020 at 1:37 PM, Kosonen said:

7. You must reinstate all brothers and sisters that have been disfellowshipped on false grounds and give a sincere apology and somehow make up for the wrong committed against them. 

A corollary to #6.

[Witness]

10 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

You already know that this is not done on purpose. It is done because the WT believes those teachings worth disfellowshipping over are both true and important.

JWI, these two sentences seem to be contradictory.  If disfellowshipping (judging, "killing" a servant of Christ) an individual is based on WT's "true and important" teachings being rejected (that turn out not to be true and important), then it is done on purpose. 

"Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous."  1 John 3:12

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."  Matt 7:1,2

 

[JW Insider]

On 5/9/2020 at 1:37 PM, Kosonen said:

8. And when someone is reproved or disfellowshipped, the committed sin must be made known to the congregation. (1 Timothy 5:20; Matthew 3:5; Mark 1:5; James 5:16; 1 Corinthians 5:1)

Usually a good idea. And always a good idea in principle. But we don't need to make a law out of every principle, or we would be just like the Pharisees.

Imagine a case of incestuous rape in a culture where the rape victim will not likely ever be hired for a job, or will not be considered as a potential marriage partner, etc.

[JW Insider]

3 minutes ago, Witness said:

JWI, these two sentences seem to be contradictory.  If disfellowshipping (judging, "killing" a servant of Christ) an individual is based on WT's "true and important" teachings being rejected (that turn out not to be true and important), then it is done on purpose.

That's a stretch of logic. No one is saying that all DFs are done correctly, but you can't say that a mistake is done on purpose just because it turned out to be wrong. A teacher can mark a student wrong for spelling potato as potatoe, but that doesn't mean the teacher made the mistake on purpose. Disfellowshipping is not "killing." That's just another mistake, too. Jehovah sees the heart no matter what mistakes are made on earth.

[JW Insider]

On 5/9/2020 at 1:37 PM, Kosonen said:

9. You have to understand and believe and teach about the flight the woman in Revelation 12 is to undertake.

You mentioned this in #4 above.

[JW Insider]

On 5/9/2020 at 1:37 PM, Kosonen said:

10. You have to understand and believe and teach that Ezekiel 38 speaks about a literal place where God's people will be gathered and live in security literally and that Gog from Magog together with his armies will come to plunder God's people's literal cattle, gold, silver and property and that it will consist of a literal great wealth. 

This is apparently just another reference to the "flight of the woman" based on other things you've said elsewhere. James 4 & 5 seem to be especially appropriate now that you have added wealth into the mix.

[Srecko Sostar]

 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

You already know that this is not done on purpose. It is done because the WT believes those teachings worth disfellowshipping over are both true and important. While there may be false or at least questionable teachings, the personz doing the disfellowshipping are sure they are performing a sacred service, rooting out apostates, etc.

 

47 minutes ago, Witness said:

JWI, these two sentences seem to be contradictory.  If disfellowshipping (judging, "killing" a servant of Christ) an individual is based on WT's "true and important" teachings being rejected (that turn out not to be true and important), then it is done on purpose. 

 

40 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

That's a stretch of logic. No one is saying that all DFs are done correctly, but you can't say that a mistake is done on purpose just because it turned out to be wrong. A teacher can mark a student wrong for spelling potato as potatoe, but that doesn't mean the teacher made the mistake on purpose. Disfellowshipping is not "killing." That's just another mistake, too. Jehovah sees the heart no matter what mistakes are made on earth.

JW's Judicial Committees is formed after elders came to knowledge about some wrongs that was done inside congregations. We making focus here on "doctrinal wrongs" made by members. In this logic every Committee have purpose and they gathered for one purpose. To correct  member or to exclude him.

JC working by The Book. These are: Bible, WT publications, internal Letters and Manuals and are powered with elders experience and motivations and outside influence coming from other prominent persons. 

JW's who lived in period when, for example, human organ transplantation had been considered as "sin" against Bible and God and "deserved" disfellowshipping of "wrongdoers", that would mean, from their (elders of those time) standpoint and view, how JC made "justified decision" in "given frames".

But, spiritual and doctrinal "frames" are relative. It had been relative in the past, and they are relative today too. Because of enough experience about this, JW elders who serve in JC must be wiser and more discreet. And if they must dfd somebody let that be for really rudimentary, basic things and not about "quarrels over words and customs" aka about things, doctrines that no one not know for sure, but all only speculate how something maybe looks like.

Should we judge and blame elders who acted according to false knowledge, err instructions and deceived "sound mind"? We can do that. Because they put their trust in other human, WT Top Management aka Directors later called GB and not JHVH and Jesus as they claimed and taught members from stage.  

On other hand ...., Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be^[a] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be^[b] loosed in heaven." ..... also sounds very stretched just as a idea that elders are appointed by holy spirit. 

Nevertheless, we still have what Jehovah’s Word says about proper conduct and how matters should be decided. We can, in effect, determine what has already been decided on a matter in the heavens. Admittedly, due to human imperfections, mistakes in judgment are made at times, but this only emphasizes even more the need to adhere closely to the instructions in Jehovah’s Word in handling matters so as to be assured that what is decided is what has already been decided in heaven. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1981092

According to this, if WT elders, who acted in all past period of time and who acting today, under temporary "given frames" knew/know what was already been decided on a matter in the heavens because they have guidance of holy spirit than our discussion will be useful to only few who is in dilemma about elder's decision making process. :))