Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"

[Arauna]

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

scenario. It plays out in all situations of national and international politics. It

Could it be a matter of politics?

9 hours ago, César Chávez said:

panel of Elders to look into Watchtower polices, It would lie with,

While there is nothing wrong with reviewing our procedures to see if it is spot on with the bible, I pose one question: are we now imitating worldly governments which have investigative committees ?  Are we now supposed to institute this on our teachings? ... when we all know that there is nothing wrong with our core teachings?

The GB  are the spearhead of the commission from Jesus to preach but - as Chavez said -  indicates they must be board members for a registered corporation. 

Is a possible solution this: the GB step down from anything to do with the legal corporation and give it to a few committees with overseers to run and be  the board members?  After all, they must prepare now for Armageddon when they get their call to the marriage of the lamb....... who will then run things through Armageddon?   The GB can head up the spiritual food committees at present which will later take over when they are no longer here. 

Is this maybe a wakeup call for them to act and change something?  

[Arauna]

15 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

But Tom has to go further of course, he looks for ways to criticise almost everyone. 

Maybe some of you should do an in depth observation of each member of the GB. You seem happy to find fault with everyone that has different views to you. But you JWs just love to worship your GB. 

Hate-OCD - target, target , anyone you can. If targeting witnesses was a ' speech crime' he would get 6 years. 

[ComfortMyPeople]

Regarding to the illustration of the "faithful slave" (Mt 24) or "faithful steward" (Lu 12) we find a quote that I think is pertinent in the letter of Ignatius to the Ephesians VI: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-ephesians-roberts.html

CHAPTER VI. Now the more any one sees the bishop keeping silence, the more ought he to revere him. For we ought to receive every one whom the Master of the house sends to be over His household, as we would do Him that sent him. It is manifest, therefore, that we should look upon the bishop even as we would upon the Lord Himself. And indeed Onesimus himself greatly commends your good order in God, that ye all live according to the truth, and that no sect has any dwelling-place among you. Nor, indeed, do ye hearken to any one rather than to Jesus Christ speaking in truth.

These commentaries of certain Ignatius from the end of the 1st or early 2nd century show us an UNSPECIALIZED, but generic, use of the "slave class", that is, it does not represent a group or class with a specific mission, but that any member of the congregation -mainly the "episkopos" (bishop) of the same has the commission to supervise it.
 

I think this idea it was first mentioned for @JW Insider, and something similar is said in Furuli's book: there wasn't any specialized class attending the household in those days. 

Neither did Ignatius wait for the last days to arrive for the declaration on the "faithful slave" to be fulfilled. Already in those days it was necessary that any Christian with supervisory responsibilities be that, prudent and faithful.

By the way, Ignacio already believed he was living in the last days:

11:1 These are the last times. Henceforth let us have reverence;

 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Betel HQ in US is physical place where some people creating  policies and run the business. 

They are registered in every country as a non-profit because it is the LAW.  One cannot print books etc without registered license. 

You should read up about this - maybe you will stop judging and get more understanding.

On 5/26/2020 at 6:28 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

is like a plague of locusts. Get Kos on it.

He has fled to the wilderness.

14 hours ago, César Chávez said:

keeping God’s house clean, not just from bad influence, but bad actors within the ORG.

So true! 

14 hours ago, César Chávez said:

GB to continue in their fine works by obeying God to the letter of dispensing spiritual food, they are now to busy having to settle complaints of individuals.

People writing them long letters with their personal spiritual views and getting no answers..... and really expecting an answer!....... then getting bitter because they thought they were more equal than others....

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There is a firm movement under the guise of ‘anti-cultism’ to make religion a decided subset of the state—with all its policies to be reviewable by the state. How strongly Rulf plays into this I cannot say, but I’ll bet

This happened to the catholic church in China..... new government translation of the bible...... all unwanted material removed...

The Pope gave permission for CCP officials to appoint bishops..... next thing they know all church business and the members...... then soft persecution....... now getting worse.  Google it. Persecution in China after Vatican-China deal.

[ComfortMyPeople]

I see, in my opinion, that the parables of the slave/ steward could have three senses:

1
According to the Bible, in a sense I am a steward, or supervisor of my family. I have to take care of it, feed it and take care of it.

2
(1 Timothy 5:17) "Let the elders who preside in a fine way ..." shows that in each congregation there must be some who supervises and cares for the rest of the congregation: a steward group of elders.

3
In the final age it would be neccesary a global stewardship

The analysis of the next passage alone yields much information on this matter, the administration or stewardship of the "house of God":

(Revelation 7:9, 10) . . .After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

1) A large number of people would be saved from the final Great Tribulation
    Each one in her house, living only according to her criteria or conscience? Let's see

2) They ALL dress the SAME way, in white in the eyes of God
    So there should be a unified behavior and conduct, not based ONLY on individual consciousness

3) They speak in unison, they have a common message
    They "shouted" the same message. There is nothing worse than a detuned choir.

4) The basic doctrinal body would be the same
    They worship one God and see the value of the Lamb.

5) Something that would make this unit difficult is that they come from very different backgrounds
    "of all nations, tribes, peoples, and languages,"

How could Mt 24:14 be accomplished with the outcome of Rev 7:9-10 without direction, organization, supervision or stewardship?

Over there I am listening to one, there in the background, who says that Christ from heaven takes charge, with the holy spirit, that there is no need for greater supervision. Am I right?

if someone thinks like that, let's consider:

In another apocalyptic prophecy we read that
    (Daniel 11:33). . those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many. . .
    (Daniel 12:10). . . And the wicked will act wickedly and no wicked will understand. Only those having insight will understand.

It seems that the prophecy indicates that there would be TWO groups of worshipers: the PEOPLE, the MANY on one side, and THOSE HAVING INSIGHT on the other. And this second group would help to obtain knowledge to the first one.

Yes, it would be necessary to teach others not the basic truths of the Gospel but what the angel said:
    "(Daniel 12: 9)" these words must be kept secret and sealed until the end time "

"These words", which should be understood with the help of "those having insight", refer to such profound thoughts of Daniel's prophecy that even the prophet himself was unable to understand (Daniel 12:8  "I heard, but I did not understand"

Thus, this last world stewardship seems very necessary, since unifying an international crowd with similar behavior, with similar beliefs, that have a united message, would be impossible without such leadership. And Daniel adds a smaller group that oversees that teaching.
 

So stewardship applies, in my opinion, to any Christian who has to be a steward: on my family, on my congregation, and on the entire world brotherhood.

------------------------------

(Matthew 24:48) . . .“But if ever that evil slave says in his heart. . ." this is for another day
 

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

One cannot print books etc without registered license. 

WT do printing publication on several  locations around the globe, less than before because they shuted down some facilities. 

 

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

They are registered in every country as a non-profit because it is the LAW.  One cannot print books etc without registered license. 

In Croatia, as in many other countries there is no need to have printing licence from law. Because they not printing publications and books. For printing tracts for summer convention program or some other convention twice a year, call tracts for public meetings and Lord's supper is easily to order in "worldly" printing shop.

In Mexico they was registered as Cultural Society.

Why JW's need to be registered as non-profit organization/corporation?? You can be simple Religious Association of Citizens or International Religious Volunteer. Who forced JW's to be registered as non-profit COMPANY??

[TrueTomHarley]

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

Could it be a matter of politics?

Yes. I think so. Someone asked Rush Limbaugh his reaction to the Boy Scout bankruptcy. In answer, he spoke to a radical leftist move to destroy anything standing for traditional family, using their own occasional failures to bring them down. I hadn’t thought of that before, I but think there is a common theme—that JWs are part of, but by no means the whole target of a movement that would remold anything of traditional family or God.

And, no—I don’t listen to Rush 24/7. Unless I am driving somewhere with the radio on, I don’t listen at all. But I did, 30 years ago, record the show and listen each night. I also, before that, listened to Larry King each night—and he is of the opposite politics. In his heyday he had the most interesting show of all. Each night he interviewed an author, each one of a different field of interest. One hour of his own Q & A, followed by 2 hours of call-in questions from the audience. He was so good. He would not let callers ramble on with long-winded speech-making questions—he forced the windbags to be succinct. He kept focus on the guest and made his own comments few. Unfortunately, his show got bought out by some network and they changed the format completely, putting him on only interviews with puff celebrities, and his newsworthy relevance fell off a cliff. 

Before that I would zip through Books on Tape from the library during my mundane work, and only stopped when the library ran out of books other than the bestsellers of the day. “Stupid janitor forgot to leave an extra roll of toilet paper—I’m screwed,” someone tweeted. I tweeted back, “I read 50 of the BBC’s top 100 books of all time via Books on Tape, far more than anyone else on the thread, while working as a janitor. Sorry about the toilet paper.”

Larry King famously did not read the books beforehand of the authors he would interview. He said he did it that way so that he could approach each book with a layman’s curiosity and not his own pre-formed opinion. He was probably just being lazy, but that does not mean that what he said was not true—he could more easily approach topics with honest curiosity and without bias. I find myself doing something similar with books such as Rulf’s, which I may someday read but I am in no hurry. It is in my area of expertise—why should I drop everything to wolf it down? It is someone’s takeaway from their own experiences. I have my own experiences and my own reactions to things he responds to. Why should I assume his are better? Did he go to a fancy-pants school? So did I. I don’t make a big deal over it because it has never done me any good (my fault, not theirs) but if he starts slobbering over ‘higher education’—well, I know that world well. 

None of us are Jesus, of course, but I like the response to his Sermon on the Mount of how people were astounded. “When Jesus finished these sayings, the effect was that the crowds were astounded at his way of teaching. for he was teaching as one having authority and not as their scribes”—the scribes that had nothing original to say but would just expound upon the opinions of each other. Jesus ignored it all to contribute his own (actually God’s) take on things. 

Everybody has a few books in them and if they do not have the wherewithal to write them, that does not make their stories any the less valid or interesting. I may get around to Rulf, but he’ll have to wait his turn. My story is as good. As it is, there is a certain idiot here (he will not have read down this far because he cries foul at any sentence longer than a dozen words) who crows about all that Rulf has “proven” the moment he is aware of the book, without even reading it. I’ll know that I have arrived when I release a book and AllenSmith gushes on about how I have knocked the ball out of the park simply by virtue of writing a book, without having read it.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

16 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

He believes the members are choking the GB.

I think I like the above post and so I bestowed you the highest act of love one person can give to another—a ‘like’—but I did it mostly for your take on the 1rst century and the modern JW work to restore it. However—what did you mean by the above quote?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Poor old Tom. You see @Arauna that Tom is still criticising people. You say it's me with OCD. Please have a word with your friend Tom about it. 

My point was not about a book as Tom suggests, but about higher education being of help to a person that writes a book and has it published. Keep up @TrueTomHarley And you've written 6 paragraphs to say nothing of importance. Do you ever think spiritually ? Or is it only material things on your mind.

@ComfortMyPeople  Quote "It seems that the prophecy indicates that there would be TWO groups of worshipers: the PEOPLE, the MANY on one side, and THOSE HAVING INSIGHT on the other. And this second group would help to obtain knowledge to the first one."

This brings us back to the 'Ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' 

New International Version  Zechariah 8:23 
This is what the LORD Almighty says: "In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.'"

And to : Act 2 v 17

'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

 But this means that "THOSE HAVING INSIGHT" MUST be inspired by God's Holy Spirit. 

Quote These words", which should be understood with the help of "those having insight", refer to such profound thoughts of Daniel's prophecy that even the prophet himself was unable to understand (Daniel 12:8  "I heard, but I did not understand

This proves that 'those having insight' will require the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit to understand. 

The Governing Body of CCJW have admitted to NOT being inspired. Yet they say they are of the Anointed. And they say that they are the faithful and discreet slave. 

The Leaders of the Bible Students and the CCJW have made many mistakes and probably deliberately told lies. Now even if we put 'everything' down to mistakes, why would God / Christ allow that to happen in Their chosen organisation ?  And that is without taking into account the immorality in the CCJW. The lack of love and mercy. The stumbling of many congregants. 

Unfortunately the CCJW being American it 'allows for' a lot of collateral damage. Where as Jesus spoke of the fine shepherd that would leave his 99 sheep to go and find the lost one.  

Quote 

Thus, this last world stewardship seems very necessary, since unifying an international crowd with similar behavior, with similar beliefs, that have a united message, would be impossible without such leadership. And Daniel adds a smaller group that oversees that teaching.

Lets look at this. Yes, a true Anointed class that are inspired of God's Holy Spirit, is necessary. 

The behavior of this 'united crowd' need not be exactly the same at this time. The Earth is a big place. The 'beard' thing is a great example of this.

The beliefs of course must be the same, but by choice, not forced. And those beliefs must come from a true Anointed who are inspired by God through Christ.

The message must be a true one, and not keep changing. If something is not known, then it should be told as not known. It should not be guessed at. 

And of course the true Anointed ones would be a much smaller group. 

In my opinion it was the 'Anointed ones' that Jesus died for. Rev 5 v 9 & 10

And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, ¹⁰  and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

[Arauna]

9 hours ago, ComfortMyPeople said:

These commentaries of certain Ignatius from the end of the 1st or early 2nd century show us an UNSPECIALIZED, but generic, use of the "slave class

So we must now look to Ignatius? Instead of the bible? Remember, already in the time of apostle John the Greek influence and apostate ideas had already infiltrated the congregations.  Jesus gave warning about the weeds.  Math 19. The most insidious weeds were the Greek philosophy and oratory traditions which was literally everywhere!  There were gymnasiums etc. in Palestine. 

9 hours ago, ComfortMyPeople said:

there wasn't any specialized class attending the household in those days. 

Matthew 24 is about the last days of the Jewish system but it says that the preaching work will be done in the last days in " entire world" then the end will come..... so it refers to our time. 

It afterward talks about a slave..... so this is obviously only a feature of the last days of the entire earthly system....... and it asks a question: who is the FDS?  It obviously means that it is important for each individual to recognize who this FDS is.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

By their works you will know them and we know who the F&DS isn't. Sorry GB you missed the mark. 

[Arauna]

On 5/28/2020 at 5:41 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

JW members need to have more insight and knowledge and intuition about issue and not drop all and every individual who have issue with sex identity into "devil influence" and/or individual "evilness".

I remember a person who openly told everyone they had AIDs and came to meetings. It is a lie that we are not accomdating to all kinds of people. We are very kind to anyone accepting Jehovahs moral standards.

The problem is usually with them - they do not accept Jehovahs moral standards.

Universities and tech corporations are pushing this new 'cultural revolution'  which is inspired by the Marx's  manifesto.  This includes atheism and lack of conscience and morals.