Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"

[Arauna]

44 minutes ago, Anna said:

India

Appologies- could not highlight entire quote.   

I have watched my brothers and sisters for the last few years standing in very public places with carts.  I have thought about this and seen how everyone walks by..... but one will see the odd person take literature. Usually there are several languages on a cart. 

Word has got out because we have an Indian family in our group as well as a young doctor.  The Indian family attend our meeting from India. Many of the Indian students come to cheaper countries like Georgia to study for doctor - we had visitors on many weekends prior to the lockdown. Sometimes up to 5 visitors. We also know of 2 Philippine congregations in Saudi arabia.  Congregations formed by migrant workers.

I think we should not underestimate the spread of our work - especially when it is so public! One cannot miss it.  Even le there is just one family in an area of a few miles..... they can stand with a public cart.

I really believe jehovah exists and therefore truly believe that the angels are working alongside us to get those informed who need to be informed.  The marking work is going on as we speak!   Our persecution in many countries is also drawing attention to our work. Modi is a far-right president and it is bringing attention to the plight of christians..... right-hearted ones will see the discrimination.  Poor people are down to earth and have nothing to lose. They are often more astute than the rich and they are the ones who accept the truth.

[Arauna]

16 hours ago, Arauna said:

genetically engineered moquitos

To cause sterility. Forgot to say.

[TrueTomHarley]

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

We have had the same problem when questioned about Armageddon, especially when we know there has been so little chance to make headway in many countries where no one has heard anything positive about JWs, if they've heard of us at all. And the jw.org site still has articles on it that go back to a time when we claimed that 99.9% of the world's population would die at Armageddon.

I don’t even pretend to know how this works. I know what is the place of safety. I know what is my obligation to publicize it. Everything else involves matters “too great for me.” 

Can you be some distance from the place of safety or not on millimeter? Dunno. “Is it only Jehovah’s Witnesses who will be saved?” someone asked my daughter, a need-greater. “Well—I’m not Jesus, and I don’t know,” she replied. What of the verse that you will by no means complete the circuit of Israel before the son of man arrives? How does that factor in? Will Jehovah pull some last minute trick like he did with Jonah?

It is enough to know that he can read hearts. I’ll just do an Abraham and say, “is not the God of the entire earth going to do what is right?” After Armageddon, (let us assume that I find myself on the other side of it) I will look around, see who I see, and say, “I guess that is what’s right.”

All we can do is what we can do. Between house-to-house, carts, internet, and just plain zeal, what we have done is a lot. Is the kingdom the burning issue in everyone’s mind that they consciously approve or reject, as much of our material would suggest? Or is it that people are consumed with the day-to-day and “take no note” of what is happening around them, as also much of our material would suggest? What is the interplay between the two?

The issue is do people prefer government by God or government by men. The GB would be negligent to not continually stress the place of safety and call attention to verses that indicate you’d better be there. They would be negligent to not urge those there to prioritize their lives so as to join Christ in saying “Come,” They have not been negligent. Imitate them, says 2 Thess 3:7-9. Imitate their faith, says Heb 13:17, a faith that has manifested itself as deeds, because faith without works is dead.

That is enough for me to go on. You don’t have to know every little thing. Not a sparrow falls to the ground unseen by the Father. That doesn’t mean that it doesn’t fall. How many will fall, and why, and how many will stand?

 

[Srecko Sostar]

25 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

“Is it only Jehovah’s Witnesses who will be saved?” someone asked my daughter, a need-greater. “Well—I’m not Jesus, and I don’t know,” she replied.

This is witty answer. I believe how more JW's try answer this way, because of need to give answer that is more acceptable for non-JW people. In fact, i think 70%-80% of JW's thinks how only JW will be saved.   

25 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

” After Armageddon, (let us assume that I find myself on the other side of it)

Oh Man, you need more faith :))

25 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The issue is do people prefer government by God or government by men.

People prefer government that not gives promises only :))

25 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The GB would be negligent to not continually stress the place of safety and call attention to verses that indicate you’d better be there. They would be negligent to not urge those there to prioritize their lives so as to join Christ in saying “Come,” They have not been negligent. Imitate them, says 2 Thess 3:7-9. Imitate their faith, says Heb 13:17, a faith that has manifested itself as deeds, because faith without works is dead.

Faith without works is dead .... as same as works with faith can be rejected. Bible speaking about it too. 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

People prefer government that not gives promises only

The government of Jehovah is sure to come - it is not just a promise.  It will come when Jehovah says the time is right.

 

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Faith without works is dead

That is why the GB urge us to preach and fulfill the commission given by Jehovah.  Do you preach as the new testament continually urges us to do? 

[Anna]

21 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Jesus began to reign when he sat down at the right hand of God. 1 Cor 15:25 as much as says this. And, yes, we know from Col 1:13 that Christ already began gathering subjects to that Kingdom as soon as he was resurrected.

 

Yes, I find WT teaching about this a tad puzzling since as you say 1 Cor 15:25 seems quite clear.

 

BUT, v. 23 talks about those belonging to Christ during his presence, as if his presence is at a different time to when he was resurrected. I suppose it all hangs on when Christ's presence began then (I know you have discussed this a number of time).

 

Anyway WT explains it like this (I know you know how WT explains it)

 

Insight Volume 2 p. 169-170: This Kingdom is of greater proportions and bigger dimensions than “the kingdom of the Son of his love,” spoken of at Colossians 1:13. “The kingdom of the Son of his love” began at Pentecost 33 C.E. and has been over Christ’s anointed disciples; “the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ” is brought forth at the end of “the appointed times of the nations” and is over all mankind on earth.—Lu 21:24. 

 

WT w02 10/1 p. 18-19 When Jesus ascended to heaven, he did not immediately take up the scepter of rulership over the peoples of the world. (Psalm 110:1) However, he did receive a “kingdom” with subjects that obeyed him. The apostle Paul identified that kingdom when he wrote: “[God] delivered us [spirit-anointed Christians] from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love.” (Colossians 1:13) This deliverance began at Pentecost 33 C.E. when holy spirit was poured out on Jesus’ faithful followers.—Acts 2:1-4; 1 Peter 2:9.  I must admit this is the first time I have noticed the reference "Jesus's first Kingdom"

 

w90 3/15 p. 15-16: AT PENTECOST 33 C.E., Jesus Christ, the Head of the congregation, began actively ruling in the kingdom of his spirit-anointed slaves. How so? By means of the holy spirit, angels, and a visible governing body. As the apostle Paul indicated, God ‘delivered anointed ones from the authority of the darkness and transferred them into the kingdom of the Son of his love.’—Colossians 1:13-18; Acts 2:33, 42; 15:2; Galatians 2:1, 2; Revelation 22:16.

2. In what larger Kingdom did Christ begin reigning in 1914?

 At the end of “the appointed times of the nations,” Jehovah increased Christ’s kingly authority, extending it beyond the Christian congregation. (Luke 21:24) Yes, in the year 1914, God gave his Son kingly authority over the “nations,” “the kingdom of the world,” all mankind.—Psalm 2:6-8; Revelation 11:15.

 

What's your argument with the above?

 

(Goodness, we are all over the place now....So I will say Furuli....I wonder what his opinion is on this. I haven't read all his book yet, I zeroed in on the GB bit only so far).

[Witness]

21 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It's not unwelcome at all. I think that most of us have seen this idea in service and and in commentaries. And most of us have probably considered it (and dismissed it). It is such a big break from a "workable" understanding of Revelation and 1 Corinthians 15, that I dismiss it before I get very far into it. And that's because I see some potential contradictions among ALL the possibilities, but the idea that we are now in the 1,000 year reign seemed unworkable.

“But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. ⁹ The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”

“Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—”  Rom 5:12

Without accepting Christ’s teachings, none of us, anointed or not, cannot gain spiritual life.  That is now, not a thousand years later on the other side of Armageddon.  (John 14:6; 6:48; 1 John 5:11; Rom 8:2; etc.)

Christ’s first goal is to complete the sealing of the Bride.  That Bride when united with him in the Kingdom, brings forth life for the rest of faithful mankind.  (Rev 2:29; 22:17; Matt 10:40-42; Isa 52:7)  The New Covenant promise of life, would be fulfilled. It is then, that children are “born” into the Kingdom of God.

In the apostle’s day, we have record of those who were once with them, but turned away from their Head.  (Acts 15:24; 1 John 2:19)   We have record of Paul confronting false teachings and “demolishing” them.  (2 Cor 10:5)  These people diverted from truth and true worship. (2 Pet 2:2)  We know that the war against Satan’s lies, is spiritual.  (Eph 6:12)   Each anointed one is tested by Satan, and over the years, not all have succeeded in remaining faithful to God and Jesus. (Luke 22:31)   Each one is judged according to their choice.  (put all enemies under his feet – Ps 110:1,2 ) Those who faithfully obey the word of truth, priests refined of their sins, can be sealed while on the earth. (Eph 1:13; 4:30)  If they are true to their anointing, (born again in the spirit) they remain spiritually “alive”. (Rom 6:11)  If they fail and following “another spirit”, would they still be considered by God as “alive”?  (2 Cor 11:1-4)

The faithful can reign (a spiritual connotation) with Christ in “heaven” while on the earth.  One’s name cannot be written in the Book of life and not be considered spiritually “alive”.  (Luke 10:20; Phil 4:3; Rev 3:5)

 ^"But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. ²¹ For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. ²² For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive”. (1 Cor 15)

They are spiritually “alive” while in the flesh.  (1 Cor 15:53-57)

All anointed are the “firstfruits” benefiting from the New Covenant as the complete Bride – only if they are faithful.  But there is a distinction made in this scripture of the end time anointed remnant as “those who belong to him”:

 ²³ But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.”  1 Cor 15:23

These, are the “firstfruits” Paul is speaking of in 1 Cor 15:

“I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”  Rev 20

So these anointed didn’t have any experience over their lifetime with the two Beast of Rev 13 – the last Beast in Daniel’s vision. (Dan 7:19) They had nothing to do with it, since they existed BEFORE it came into being.

Yet the last anointed remnant DO experience this Beast.  They actually worship it, taken captive by its use of deceit; but, through their testimony against it, some were “killed” by the beast for rejecting its mark.  (Rev 11:1-3; Col 2:8; 13:10,15)

“Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. ⁸ Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.   Rev 11:7,8 

While worshiping the beast, they were “dead” in their sins. (Rev 3:1,18)  Once they wake up to what they’ve got themselves into, their testimony against the spirit-breathed beast leads to their “death” by the Beast.  (Rev 13:15)

We can’t dismiss the fact that God’s word shows us that the anointed are “captivated” by the Beast in the last days.  Does the UN deceitfully “captivate” the anointed? No. So, it isn’t the Beast of Rev 13:1,2.   Scripture says the Beast will undoubtedly, accomplish this.

After these servants of Christ give their testimony about him, and although the spirit-breathed beast sanctioned them as “dead” when they fought against it, they “came alive” because of this testimony and repentance of their sins. Again, we need to remember that this Beast “makes war” with the anointed, using deceit.  (Rev 13:5-7; 16:13,14)  They are initially “overcome” until they gave their testimony.  (Rev 13:6,7)

“For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial.   But after the three and a half days the Spirit of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.”  Rev 11:9,11

(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.  Rev 20:5 

We see a glimpse of those anointed who come out victorious during this war with the Beast .

“And I saw what looked like a sea of glass glowing with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and its image and over the number of its name. They held harps given them by God”  Rev 15:2

To reiterate, the Beast makes war with the saints.  Not all of these “kings of the earth”, come out “victorious”. (Rev 1:5)  Only a remnant survives. And, not all of the 144,000 have experience with the Beast, only the remnant of the “woman” covenant.  The rest are already “reigning” with Christ, which helps verify that this occurs during the last 2,000 years since Jesus began reigning in “heaven”.

 

The Lord will extend your mighty scepter from Zion, saying,
    “Rule in the midst of your enemies!”
³ Your troops will be willing
    on your day of battle.
Arrayed in holy splendor,
    your young men will come to you
    like dew from the morning’s womb.  Ps 110:2,3

The “day of battle” began when Jesus took his seat to “rule” in the first century. 

Rev 19:19-21 can be compared to Rev 20:7-10

So, the thousand years ends with the appearance of the two Beast. (Gog and Magog, Rev 20:7,8)  The ensuing “Great Tribulation”, the result of “Armageddon” fought in the “valley of decision” is a war against concepts, devised by an organization that calls itself “the truth.    A Beast/false prophet tells the lies and directs an organization to “make war” with the saints. 

Which it has.  It has robbed God’s anointed of their priesthood. (2 Thess 2:3,4;)  It has told them to remain “scattered”, not to bond and join under their only Head, Jesus Christ.  ONLY a composite false prophet is allowed to submit spiritual “food”, a steward that has failed to run God’s anointed household in righteousness. (Rev 13:16,17)

Again, an anointed can be sealed while still alive on the earth. Through their devotion to their Master and truth, they symbolically “reign” with him in the ongoing battle of truth against lies, that they face during their lifetime. 

During Christ’s invisible presence in the last days (Rev 11:1-3) so too, those who fought off the Beast, and become sealed even while still on the earth, and can “ride” victoriously, with Christ, against Satan’s deceptions.

And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
    and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
    and with your blood you purchased for God
    persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
¹⁰ You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
    and they will reign on the earth.”  Rev 5:9,10

“But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.”  1 Pet 2:9

“Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. ¹² It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. ¹³ But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. ¹⁴ This is why it is said:

“Wake up, sleeper,
    rise from the dead,
    and Christ will shine on you.”  Eph 5:11-14

 

 

[Witness]

14 hours ago, Arauna said:

Judgement is NOT  condemnation...... (most people think this way),a judgment came after both sides of a case was heard and a fair chance was given  them to explain. 

Not what I've read of God's judgment in the Bible.  Joel chapter 3

 

 

[Witness]

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

Judgement is NOT  condemnation......

"But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”  Matt 12:36,37

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

The  1000 years will give justice to those with a good heart condition who had never even heard of the bible, or jehovah.

Are you saying that God cannot read hearts?  2 Chron 16:9  Are you saying that He isn't the "God of the living", and cannot resurrect individuals whose hearts are already proven as righteous, into His Kingdom?  What are the "memorial tombs" for, then?  Ps 139:1-6

Do you really believe a God of love needs to submit them to Satan to further examine their heart, after giving them "paradise"?  We've been through this with Adam and Eve.  God is putting an end to all of it, at Armageddon.  An end to destruction, to death, and to Satan. 1 Cor 15:24-28

When the fourth Beast of Daniel and Revelation is raging, Daniel said:

 “As I looked,

“thrones were set in place,
    and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
    the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
    and its wheels were all ablaze.
10 A river of fire was flowing,
    coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
    ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The court was seated,
    and the books were opened.

11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

“‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’  Daniel  7

After this is settled, there is no other JUDGMENT PERIOD.  It is an everlasting dominion, never to be challenged again.

 

 

 

https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/11/resurrectionjudgmentlife-and-death.html

 

 

[Witness]

On 7/19/2020 at 8:37 AM, 4Jah2me said:

Now why would Revelation say that they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. ???

“Is not My word like fire,” declares the Lord, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?  Jer 23:29

"Therefore I cut you in pieces with My prophets,
    I killed you with the words of My mouth—
    then my judgments go forth like the sun."  Hos 6:5

When I think of this "torment" I think of leaders such as Hitler, who's legacy has been condemned through the the mouth of people since his wicked rule.  He is "condemned" "day and night" in a sense, for his atrocities committed even though he is dead.  God's Word condemns eternally, those who reject His Word in Christ. Since His Word, the spiritual sense of it, "is like fire", it is a symbolic condemnation.

This anointed one has an article addressing this very topic:

https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/08/tormented-forever-in-lake-of-fire.html

 

 

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

36 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

I wonder, do you remember the percentage that survived the flood, and the percentage that actually perished? It seems some, conflicted members enjoy putting misleading labels for dramatic effect. I guess you can use "percentage" with the account of Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah. It is a shame, 

On the other hand, the percentage of Ninevite citizens who survived is pretty high, though it initially displeased Jonah. I have no doubt that the examples you cite are the ones that will carry the day, but they are tempered by accounts like that of Jonah. I just don’t like to be overly dogmatic—it’s a displeasing quality, and one that is not necessary. I have even taken to saying lately of Tom Pearlsandswine that “that brother knows how to put the dog into dogmatic!”

[Anna]

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

 

I decided to wait before I say anything more about the 1,000 years and Revelation 20. Maybe tomorrow.

All I can see so far is that it's not in chronological order, at least not if we apply our current understanding. Looking forward to what you have yo say about it.