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John 17:3 ‘know thee the only true God’


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John 17:3 ‘know thee the only true God’

The Watchtower says that, because the Father is called ‘the only true God’, then Jesus cannot be the true God.

Ask: The context is Jesus as a man, praying the great high priestly prayer to the Father, and as such it was proper for the man Christ Jesus to call the Father ‘the only true God’.

Christ would not have said this if it was spoken from the viewpoint of His deity.

Ask: Since Jesus being called our only Lord (Jude 4 NWT) does not exclude the Father (Matthew 11:25) and the Holy Spirit from being called Lord, why must the Father being called ‘the only true God’ exclude the Son and Holy Spirit from being called God?

Ask: According to John 17:3, how many true Gods are there? (One).

Do you agree that whatever is not true is false?

If there is only one true God, all other gods must be false gods.

In John 1:1 NWT says that Jesus is a god, right? Is Jesus a true God or a false god?

He cannot be a false god, can He, since that would mean John was guilty of falsely honouring Jesus as a god. Therefore Jesus must be a true God.

But Jehovah is the only true God. Therefore Jesus must be Jehovah.


Reprinted with permission from Pastor Keith Piper.  

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Dean. www.calvarystudy.info

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Probably a subject not worth answering on. Those with spiritual wisdom know the Almighty God is greater than Jesus Christ.  Jesus said so many times that : "the Father is greater than I am"  and such as : "I do nothing of my own initiative but only that of the Father"  And Jesus said he was sent forth by God.  As  for the Holy Spirit, we know it is God's 'active force', not a spirit being.  If Jesus was God then who resurrected him when he was killed ? And who was it th

John 17:3 ‘know thee the only true God’ The Watchtower says that, because the Father is called ‘the only true God’, then Jesus cannot be the true God. Ask: The context is Jesus as a man, praying the great high priestly prayer to the Father, and as such it was proper for the man Christ Jesus to call the Father ‘the only true God’. Christ would not have said this if it was spoken from the viewpoint of His deity. Ask: Since Jesus being called our only Lord (Jude 4 NWT) does not

Kairos Movement, same old magic tricks. We had this rodeo show before, Jesus Deserter. Anything you say cannot harbor the Trinity as legitimate truth. You, s a Mainstream Christian never learn, and unlike the multitude here, granted their view of Non-Trinitarianism, and or with JWs, even if they make mistake, even on my account if I make a mistake, I, and even they themselves can see your folly. Refuted within a second.   Interesting this guy is the mirror image of David Wood, wh

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Kairos Movement, same old magic tricks. We had this rodeo show before, Jesus Deserter. Anything you say cannot harbor the Trinity as legitimate truth. You, s a Mainstream Christian never learn, and unlike the multitude here, granted their view of Non-Trinitarianism, and or with JWs, even if they make mistake, even on my account if I make a mistake, I, and even they themselves can see your folly.

Refuted within a second.

 

Interesting this guy is the mirror image of David Wood, who, he himself, cannot hold himself in a debate, especially with Muslims.

 

EDIT:

This pastor also believes NON-BIBLE CANONS TO BE INSPIRED WRITTEN AND TRUE. This alone further shows us that this pastor is mainstream, just like you. No true Christian would believe in a false narrative of the Christ, or words added by someone else and not from the Apostles and other writers.

Shame on you.

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Probably a subject not worth answering on.

Those with spiritual wisdom know the Almighty God is greater than Jesus Christ. 

Jesus said so many times that : "the Father is greater than I am"  and such as : "I do nothing of my own initiative but only that of the Father"  And Jesus said he was sent forth by God. 

As  for the Holy Spirit, we know it is God's 'active force', not a spirit being. 

If Jesus was God then who resurrected him when he was killed ?

And who was it that spoke from heaven saying "This is my Son whom I approve " 

(Sorry quotes are not perfect but close enough to give meaning). 

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@4Jah2me Correct. The verses in question regarding Jesus doing God's Will, start with John 14:10, from there you can find the marginal references by the context itself, from there, it would show you the verses in question to prove this to, essentially, a Low Level Trinitarian.

John 14:28, when Jesus said the Father is greater than him, you can do the same method with the cited above, however, Trinitarians will use this verse against you to state otherwise, and can easily spin doctor this verse to make Jesus appear as though he is God or equal to The Father (you may occasionally see the fully man fully God mantra at times), in addition, granted the other thread regarding Strong's, they can use the word "Good" to justify themselves, which will result in the notion of God and Jesus being different incarnations of the same God. The counter jab in this situation is the marginal references for this verse, and the context itself. 

As for God speaking to Jesus, same thing with the above two examples, otherwise, you will be hit with Trinity assertions of this moment in Scripture, since, we now have the Holy Spirit involved.

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19 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Probably a subject not worth answering on.

Those with spiritual wisdom know the Almighty God is greater than Jesus Christ. 

 

Wrong. Only those indoctrinated by men or organisations.

If you had READ the article, which i know as a JW you are not allowed to, Jesus IS referred to as Almighty God.

19 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Jesus said so many times that : "the Father is greater than I am"  and such as : "I do nothing of my own initiative but only that of the Father"  And Jesus said he was sent forth by God. 

 

When did He say this? Oh, WHEN HE WAS ON EARTH where He humbled Himself.

In John 14:28 Jesus is not speaking about His nature or being (Christ had earlier said in John 10:30, ‘I and the Father are one’), but about His lowly position of incarnation as a man. The Athanasian Creed says that Christ is ‘equal to the Father as touching His Godhood, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood’. Christ was here contrasting His human humiliation, shame, suffering, rejection, opposition by enemies, and soon crucifixion, with the Father’s majesty, glory and worship by the angels in heaven.

Jesus said, ‘The Father is greater (Greek: meizon) than I’, not ‘The Father is better (Greek: kreitton) than I’. ‘Greater’ refers to the Father’s greater position (in heaven), not to a greater nature. If the word ‘better’ had been used, this would indicate that the Father had a better nature than Jesus.
 

i) The distinction is made clear in Hebrews 1:4 where ‘better’ (Gk: kreitton) is used to teach Jesus’ superiority over the angels in His nature and position.
ii) This difference between ‘greater’ and ‘better’ is seen in this example:
‘The President of a country is greater (Greek: meizon) in position than his people, but as a human being he is not better (Greek: kreitton) in nature than his people’.
iii) Jesus in becoming a man, not only took on a lower position than the Father, but also took on a lower position than the angels. ‘But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death’. (Hebrews 2:9)
 

And yes, WHILST ON EARTH, Jesus had a God in heaven. Would you expect Jesus to be an atheist?

19 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

 

As  for the Holy Spirit, we know it is God's 'active force', not a spirit being. 

Wrong. 

The Holy Spirit is fully God and has personality as He can be blasphemed.

The Holy Spirit has the three attributes of personality, those being: mind, emotions and will.

An ‘active force’ does not have personal attributes. Your claim of the Holy Spirit being an active force is disproven if the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit has mind,emotions & will.

The Holy Spirit intercedes or prays for believers.‘The Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings’. (Romans 8:26). 

The Holy Spirit hears. ‘Whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.’ (John 16:13)

The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed.‘he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost’.Mk3:29

People cannot be blasphemed. We can only be slandered. Only God can be blasphemed.

The Holy Spirit uses personal pronouns to describe Himself: John 15:26; 16:13;(he):

‘The Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabus. . .’ (Acts 13:2).

The Holy Spirit considers Himself a person, not a personification.

I know the standard watchtower reasoning is that they say that the Holy Spirit is an ‘active force’ ibecause the Greek word for ‘spirit’ (pneuma) is neuter.

But, to any serious student of the Bible, this is faulty reasoning, because 1)the gender of a word relates to the grammatical form of the word, not to its sex or physical gender. Because a word is grammatically neuter does not mean that the object is an ‘it’ or of neuter sex. (Source: Elements of NT Greek, J W Wenham, 1979, p.8).

19 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

If Jesus was God then who resurrected him when he was killed ?

A brilliant question, my friend.

Let's see what the Bible says.

God the father. Acts 10:40 "τοῦτον ὁ θεὸς ἤγειρεν τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτὸν ἐμφανῆ γενέσθαι" ) "Him God raised up the third day and shewed him openly"


Jesus. John 2:19,21 "ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Λύσατε τὸν ναὸν τοῦτον καὶ ἐν τρισὶν ἡμέραις ἐγερῶ αὐτόν", "Jesus answered and said unto them Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" 21 "ἐκεῖνος δὲ ἔλεγεν περὶ τοῦ ναοῦ τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ", "But he spake of the temple of his body"


The Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 "εἰ δὲ τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ ἐγείραντος Ἰησοῦν ἐκ νεκρῶν οἰκεῖ ἐν ὑμῖν ὁ ἐγείρας τὸν Χριστὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν ζῳοποιήσει καὶ τὰ θνητὰ σώματα ὑμῶν διὰ τὸ ἐνοικοῦν αὐτοῦ Πνεῦμα ἐν ὑμῖν", "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you"


 

19 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

 

And who was it that spoke from heaven saying "This is my Son whom I approve " 

(Sorry quotes are not perfect but close enough to give meaning). 

No need to be sorry, i am enjoying this polite and friendly discussion. Thank you.

Yes, the quotes you use are all of when Jesus WAS ON EARTH.

It was Jehovah the father speaking to Jehovah the son.

Remember that Jesus condescended Himself to take on the likeness (form, appearance) of man and the form of a servant. (Phil 2:7). His becoming a man involved gaining human attributes (subject to weakness, pain, sorrow and temptation), but not giving up his divine attributes.
 

If you wish to talk about other standard passages the watchtower uses like John 20:28, John 20:17, John 17:3, I Corinthians 8:6, Psalm 110:1, etc. i would be more than happy to have a friendly, polite non-confrontational discussion.

I think most of your above points, i have done short videos on.

 

Blessings, my friend.

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John 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.'"

John 2:19,21 "Jesus answered and said unto them Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" 21 "But he spake of the temple of his body"

Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you"  

Romans 8:9-11 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[

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]
 his Spirit who lives in you.

I am not here to support dualism or trialism or whatever is religious theology about trinity and so. I am going to look at text itself and to possibilities they offer. 

1) when Jesus said  Father is greater than I, we can take in context place and moment. Jesus, as His son, but also as son of his human mother, speaking from position of body and blood, a human on Earth. As perfect human individual in the body, he was also more than mere perfect human. He was only begotten Son, Firstborn of all. As perfect human, similar to Adam, because he represented Adam, he was correctly made statement how his Father is greater. Not only in aspects of his human condition at that moment, but also in regard spiritual position, Father - Son position.

2) in speaking about Temple i would not use this verse to prove who resurrected who, or who are in position to do such act. In verse is clearly said who have power and ability to raise Temple in the 3 days. Jesus made undoubted claim how HE is individual who will going to do this if somebody destroy Temple (literal or spiritual Temple, it is not matter) If Jesus is not only copy or clone of perfect Adam but much, much more, i not see obstacle to take in possibility how most powerful person in Universe, after Father, is able to made resurrection of human body. Because Jesus was in fact spirit in human body. His life was originated from spiritual place.    

3) Spirit of God and Spirit of Jesus is interesting terminology. And both are powerful for same task - resurrection. 

 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?  - John 11

This two Spirits are so close and connected that it is understandable why Jesus said:

I and the Father are one, the same. .... Father is in me, and I in the Father. - John 10 ... I am the Life - John 14

 

Just some verses for further research. I am not stating anything.

 

 

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13 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I knew you were not worth talking to :) 

Oh and by the way I am NOT a JW.  So from the beginning you were wrong. 

Ah, so you cannot address any of the BIBLE verses i gave?

So you are now running away.

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11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

John 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.'"

John 2:19,21 "Jesus answered and said unto them Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" 21 "But he spake of the temple of his body"

Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you"  

Romans 8:9-11 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life NIV-28127d" data-link='[<a data-cke-saved-href="NIV-28127d" href="NIV-28127d" title="See footnote d">d</a>]' style="font-size:0.625em; vertical-align:top">[

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] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because ofNIV-28128e" data-link='[<a data-cke-saved-href="NIV-28128e" href="NIV-28128e" title="See footnote e">e</a>]' style="font-size:0.625em; vertical-align:top">[
    Hello guest!
] his Spirit who lives in you.

 

I don't know what your point is here. First, get rid of the NIV and ignore footnotes as they are just somebodys' opinion.

Yes, the Holy Spirit raised Jesus. So did God the father and Jesus.

"But he spake of the temple of his body"

The greek word here means a LITERAL, PHYSICAL Body.

The bottom line is the Bible CLEARLY showing that the triune God raised Jesus.

 

Quote

I am not here to support dualism or trialism or whatever is religious theology about trinity and so. I am going to look at text itself and to possibilities they offer. 

 

Oh, i think all of us are biased to some degree.

But yes. What does the text say is the question.

 

Quote

 

 

1) when Jesus said  Father is greater than I, we can take in context place and moment. Jesus, as His son, but also as son of his human mother, speaking from position of body and blood, a human on Earth. As perfect human individual in the body, he was also more than mere perfect human. He was only begotten Son, Firstborn of all. As perfect human, similar to Adam, because he represented Adam, he was correctly made statement how his Father is greater. Not only in aspects of his human condition at that moment, but also in regard spiritual position, Father - Son position.

 

Again, In John 14:28 Jesus is not speaking about His nature or being (Christ had earlier said in John 10:30, ‘I and the Father are one’), but about His lowly position of incarnation as a man. The Athanasian Creed says that Christ is ‘equal to the Father as touching His Godhood, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood’. Christ was here contrasting His human humiliation, shame, suffering, rejection, opposition by enemies, and soon crucifixion, with the Father’s majesty, glory and worship by the angels in heaven.

Jesus said, ‘The Father is greater (Greek: meizon) than I’, not ‘The Father is better (Greek: kreitton) than I’. ‘Greater’ refers to the Father’s greater position (in heaven), not to a greater nature. If the word ‘better’ had been used, this would indicate that the Father had a better nature than Jesus.
 

‘In view of greater (meaning higher in position) and better (meaning higher in nature), is it not clear that in John 14:28 Jesus is speaking of the Father’s temporary higher position and not his higher nature than Jesus?

QUESTION: How did Christ make Himself of no reputation when He became a man? (Phil. 2:6-9)

1. He veiled His preincarnate glory in order to dwell among men, but never surrendered His deity or divine glory. On the Mount Transfiguration He allowed His glory to shine briefly. If Christ had not veiled His glory, mankind would not have been able to look at
Him. When John saw His glory on Patmos he said, ‘I fell at His feet as dead’. (Rev. 1:17).
2. He submitted to a voluntary non use of some of His divine attributes (on some occasions) in order to achieve His objectives. He never surrendered His attributes, but He did voluntarily cease using some of them on earth. Jesus showed His divine attributes of:
i) omniscience (‘He knew all men’ John 2:24; 16:30;‘Lord thou knowest all things.’ 21:17
ii) omnipresence (John 3:13 ‘the Son of man which is in heaven’).
As God He was everywhere at once, but as man He chose to walk there.
iii) omnipotence (Matthew 28:18 ‘all power is given unto me’.)

3. He condescended to take on the likeness (form, appearance) of man and the form of a servant. (Phil 2:7). His becoming a man involved gaining human attributes (subject to weakness, pain, sorrow and temptation), but not giving up his divine attributes.

Conclusion: ‘The Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28) said Jesus from the vantage point of His incarnation as a man. This verse relates to Christ’s voluntary subordination to the Father to accomplish His work on earth.‘Greater than’ refers to His greater position not His nature.
 

Quote

 

2) in speaking about Temple i would not use this verse to prove who resurrected who, or who are in position to do such act. In verse is clearly said who have power and ability to raise Temple in the 3 days. Jesus made undoubted claim how HE is individual who will going to do this if somebody destroy Temple (literal or spiritual Temple, it is not matter)

 

Yes, it DOES matter. the word can ONLY mean a literal, physical BODY

This verse certainly DOES say that Jesus said He would raise HIMSELF UP after 3 days of being dead.

So, was Jesus lying?

 

Quote

 

If Jesus is not only copy or clone of perfect Adam but much, much more, i not see obstacle to take in possibility how most powerful person in Universe, after Father, is able to made resurrection of human body. Because Jesus was in fact spirit in human body. His life was originated from spiritual place.    

 

Yes, God the father DID raise Jesus. But here Jesus says that HE HIMSELF will do it. Was Jesus lying?

‘I will raise it up . . . he spake of the temple of his body.’ - John 2:19-21
‘Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up (v.19). But he spake of the temple of his body.’ (v.21)


Jesus here promised that He Himself would raise up His own body after three days. Notice how Jesus uses the word ‘body’ meaning a bodily resurrection, not a spiritual resurrection.

Quote

 

 

 

3) Spirit of God and Spirit of Jesus is interesting terminology. And both are powerful for same task - resurrection. 

 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?  - John 11

This two Spirits are so close and connected that it is understandable why Jesus said:

I and the Father are one, the same. .... Father is in me, and I in the Father. - John 10 ... I am the Life - John 14

 

Just some verses for further research. I am not stating anything.

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I knew you were not worth talking to :) 

Oh and by the way I am NOT a JW.  So from the beginning you were wrong. 

Now you see why I am strict and critical when it comes to misconceptions and Bible Strong's - being caught off guard it can easily be used against you when someone of the latter viewpoint is attempting to prove Jesus is God (Yahweh/Jehovah).

Jesus.Deserter is an example of a mainstream Christian affiliated with the belief the The Trinity and as pointed out in the thread you started, you can see how vastly the view differs. Lucky for you he is a low level Trinitarian, for he targets JWs, not just to lure them out, but anyone who does not believe Jesus to be God.

To the common Trinitarian, if you believe Jesus is not God, you are against the truth of the Scriptures, and you are deem someone who is in denial of Jesus' Deity and or that of him being God - therefore, destined for eternal hellfire torment, as they believe also.

Trinitarians view us, as well as Jehovah's Witnesses, as false and or incorrect and deem us as prophets of falsehood, moreover, their influenced is spread to those who, the majority to produce falsehood, misinformation and twisting information. It is nothing to do with teachings of anything else, but rather, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit alone (The very core of Christianity itself, as is with anything that predates Christianity), hence this "war" I have been talking about is the whole Non-Trinitarian vs. Trinitarian situation we've been at since like the 4th century, and even in present day it is far more critical and serious due to the fact that mainstream Christianity is on a decline due to Christian minorities and Islam.

That being said, regardless if you are among Jehovah's Witnesses or not, granted JWs themselves are Non-Trinitarian as is among Restorationism (something Masons and Trinitarians often go after), you will still be branded as such, they even often brand Muslims as JWs outside of conversation or debate of the Crucifixion, since you are in the UK, this is often the tactic used in Speaker's Corner there.

Anyone who is not up there in Bible knowledge, they also mock by saying "running away", unlike the notion of proving claims granted they deem the latter as cowardly.

That being said, he used a Greek word and Strong's in his response to you, for there is good reason he skipped over me. In this case, you legitimately have a chance to prove the Trinitarian wrong here.

@Srecko Sostar That will not do because as I told 4Jah2me, Trinitarian can easily use those verses against you. This is why you need to utilize marginal references, as I said elsewhere, even Strong's can help you here, mainly in regards to John 1:1.

To the both of you, to combat The Trinity Doctrine as Non-Trinitarians, you really need to build up that muscle, that muscle being Scripture.

Like I said, in this situation you are dealing with Trinitarianism now. Therefore Bible verses/passages you have to know what connects to it, the references, this also goes for Hebrew and Greek Strong's as well and context because John 14:28 can easily be spun around to their favor if you do not go about things with discernment and or unprepared. That being said, the narrative here, on his part is the ideology, the view of this verse being seen as Jesus having 2 natures that correlates with the view of Godhood.

Granted he is err, his view is an obvious one (The Creed he quoted).

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20 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Wrong. Only those indoctrinated by men or organisations.

If you had READ the article, which i know as a JW you are not allowed to, Jesus IS referred to as Almighty God.

You show yourself to be credible, but you are not, for these same assertions people have proven you to be in err here.

To 4Jah2me's credit, you are the one who is incorrect here. He knows, as with the JWs, or any Non-Trinitarian, that Jesus is the Son of the True God, nowhere in Scripture is Jesus spoken of as "Almighty God" let alone did he even take plunder to being God, as pointed out in Philippians 2:6, which points out that did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, (the MS states did not take plunder and or equality to being equal to him [God], that is even critical proven by the evidence even in the Strong's Concordances to, to which Trinitarians are known to misuse and or ignore).

That being said, you cannot disprove the Non-Trinitarian view, which is indeed, the true one, not the 4th century Creed induced assertion you profess.

20 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

When did He say this? Oh, WHEN HE WAS ON EARTH where He humbled Himself.

In John 14:28 Jesus is not speaking about His nature or being (Christ had earlier said in John 10:30, ‘I and the Father are one’), but about His lowly position of incarnation as a man. The Athanasian Creed says that Christ is ‘equal to the Father as touching His Godhood, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood’. Christ was here contrasting His human humiliation, shame, suffering, rejection, opposition by enemies, and soon crucifixion, with the Father’s majesty, glory and worship by the angels in heaven.

The Quicumque Vult (The Athanasian Creed) was never practiced by the early Christians, it came long time after that. Citing this is your next mistake for the verse in question. The idea deeming Jesus to be literally equal to God is in your Creeds, but no in Scripture.

The writer was describing The Son of Man here, Jesus, who was indeed on the earth for he was a man born in the Law, was he not (Galatians 4:4)?

One of your citations hints of that somehow The Angels forgot who God is, again, another Trinity based contradiction and a cup of confusion.

In John 14:28, as is with numerous occasions, Jesus acknowledged his Father’s  absolute greatness, as is with the Father’s authority, and position of sovereignty, which all can be found in the following cited verses

  • Matthew 4:9, 10; 20:23
  • Lu 22:41, 42
  • John 5:19; 8:42; 13:16

After the ascension of the Christ, into heaven, Jesus’ followers, his Apostles, described the God our Father as having a distinct superior position compared to his only-begotten son, Jesus, which can also be found here:

  • 1 Corinthians 11:3; 15:20, 24-28
  • 1 Peter 1:3
  • 1 John 2:1; 4:9, 10

In the Greek Language, you have the word meizon, which Greek Strong’s # 3185. The word in question is rendered greater depending on the translation, and it is in a comparative form of the word for great, which in Greek is megas, Greek Strong’s # 3173. In many contexts where one person or thing is said to be greater and or superior to another

  • Matthew 18:1; 23:17
  • Mark 9:34; 12:31
  • Luke 22:24
  • John 13:16
  • 1 Corinthians 13:13

Also one can see the Strong's you mentioned is not even in the verse, otherwise that would have been a Greek violation. You cannot compare words like that, especially when there is no root connections with no genitive connections even, therefore, despite the wording, to do this on your own is silly. By the way, that is that word is Greek Strong's #2909, not used in the verse in question, and or has any connection. Stop with the thinking of man when it comes to this.

Therefore, in context, even by means of even the marginal references, which can be found cited in nearly every translation, Jesus here is telling us that the Father, who is his God, who is is Father, according to him in John 20:17, 30, is greater than him.

In the Didache itself, is mirrors the same thing, therefore, you are in error, Deserter.

20 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Jesus said, ‘The Father is greater (Greek: meizon) than I’, not ‘The Father is better (Greek: kreitton) than I’. ‘Greater’ refers to the Father’s greater position (in heaven), not to a greater nature. If the word ‘better’ had been used, this would indicate that the Father had a better nature than Jesus.
 

i) The distinction is made clear in Hebrews 1:4 where ‘better’ (Gk: kreitton) is used to teach Jesus’ superiority over the angels in His nature and position.
ii) This difference between ‘greater’ and ‘better’ is seen in this example:
‘The President of a country is greater (Greek: meizon) in position than his people, but as a human being he is not better (Greek: kreitton) in nature than his people’.
iii) Jesus in becoming a man, not only took on a lower position than the Father, but also took on a lower position than the angels. ‘But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death’. (Hebrews 2:9)

As addressed of what the context and the Strong's convey, we can see here you are adding your own exegesis, spinning the context and the Strong's to befit your Trinitarian concept. As I recall you had 3 persons being God, not two, therefore, granted you cannot assert the 3rd person of the Trinity here, this failure is coupled with the latter statement.

That being said, when it comes to Strong's, pay attention to the wording, context and the grammatical usage. The number is correct, however, one must pay attention to it's usage and where and how it is used. The other one you added to make yourself seem right to confuse the others.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Jesus said, ‘The Father is greater (Greek: meizon) than I’, not ‘The Father is better (Greek: kreitton) than I’. ‘Greater’ refers to the Father’s greater position (in heaven), not to a greater nature. If the word ‘better’ had been used, this would indicate that the Father had a better nature than Jesus.
 

i) The distinction is made clear in Hebrews 1:4 where ‘better’ (Gk: kreitton) is used to teach Jesus’ superiority over the angels in His nature and position.
ii) This difference between ‘greater’ and ‘better’ is seen in this example:
‘The President of a country is greater (Greek: meizon) in position than his people, but as a human being he is not better (Greek: kreitton) in nature than his people’.
iii) Jesus in becoming a man, not only took on a lower position than the Father, but also took on a lower position than the angels. ‘But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death’. (Hebrews 2:9)

You are basing your example in order to spin the Strong's Concordances. That will not work in your favor when the evidence can be found on Biblehub and elsewhere. To add more fuel to the fire, you dodged both the context of the verse in what Jesus truly means, as is with references that solidifies this truth.

As for Hebrews 1:4, nowhere in that verse was G#3185 used (not even in French translations they'd make that mistake, as is with all translations, if anything the error lies in one man - you). Evidence here: 

    Hello guest!

According to Jesus, he does have a God, in fact, Jesus says a number of times in Scripture he has a God, even acknowledged it, even upon the brink of death, he called out to God, which was prophetical, due to what is read in Psalms.

Jesus was on earth because he was sent to not do his Will, according to John 14:10 and the verses found in John chapter 6, but the Will of the Father. He also points out the people are deemed happy for knowing that he is indeed The Son of God, granted pretty much everyone knew, even the demons and Satan knew, that God had sent him.

20 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

No need to be sorry, i am enjoying this polite and friendly discussion. Thank you.

Yes, the quotes you use are all of when Jesus WAS ON EARTH.

There are marginal references of Jesus after his course on earth. Why ignore this?

20 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

It was Jehovah the father speaking to Jehovah the son.

Elohim (El Shaddai) cannot be his own Bene Elohim. The Most High, be it Yahweh or Jehovah to the modern English speaker, is not his own Son. The Bible tells us that Yahweh/Jehovah is the Father, in both the Old and New Testament.

God was speaking to Jesus, all 3 occasions, there were witnesses to account for this experience, the latter, being found in John 12, whereas Jesus was indeed troubled of what is to come, the people, a crowd, witnessed the talk between a Father and his Son.

That being said.... Jehovah The Son???? That is a new one. What happen to "God the Son"? Did that term fashion trend die out?

20 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Wrong. 

The Holy Spirit is fully God and has personality as He can be blasphemed.

The Holy Spirit has the three attributes of personality, those being: mind, emotions and will.

An ‘active force’ does not have personal attributes. Your claim of the Holy Spirit being an active force is disproven if the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit has mind,emotions & will.

The Holy Spirit intercedes or prays for believers.‘The Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings’. (Romans 8:26). 

The Holy Spirit hears. ‘Whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.’ (John 16:13)

The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed.‘he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost’.Mk3:29

People cannot be blasphemed. We can only be slandered. Only God can be blasphemed.

The Holy Spirit uses personal pronouns to describe Himself: John 15:26; 16:13;(he):

‘The Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabus. . .’ (Acts 13:2).

Actually you are wrong. Using Spirit when the Greek Grammar Form points to Neuter-Masculine does not prove person-hood. Likewise with cities, and or objects, even death referred to as either He/Him/His or She/Her, etc. None of the which translates even close to person hood.

That being said, blood cries, and a rock speaks, a city gives herself into prostitution, etc. All these examples do not prove to be literal, likewise to a neutered word - Spirit. Which you have been refuted on in the past, as is with Cos, who said exactly the same thing as you have done.

Therefore, the spirit is an energy, a force, etc, even spoken of as God's hand/finger and or breathe, never in the Bible or in the Didache, is the Holy Spirit deemed a person. Ever.

That being said, you and the other Trinitarian CoS, were told this before, granted you believe this to be true, you were not able to even defend it in the past, even to the point you unknowingly attacked your own.

You may want to check the references for the verses you cited too, but obvious you refuse because it can prove your claim here to 4Jah2me as incorrect, thus exposing you to be in error.

20 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

A brilliant question, my friend.

Let's see what the Bible says.

God the father. Acts 10:40 "τοῦτον ὁ θεὸς ἤγειρεν τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτὸν ἐμφανῆ γενέσθαι" ) "Him God raised up the third day and shewed him openly"

God raised Jesus from the dead. God took him out of the pangs of death. This is said in Scripture a good number of times, even during Pentecost 33 A.D.

Jesus is spoken of to be the Firstborn out of the Dead (a title that no Trinitarian can prove connects to God succumbing to death hence the ideology),

On 8/3/2018 at 12:45 PM, Space Merchant said:

Jesus called Risen Christ and or Risen Jesus (Lord), as well as the other title known as Firstborn out of the Dead [out of Death].

for God himself cannot die, he isn't even a man, he is a spirit and is incorruptible (immortal), I agree with Paul, Job and countless others - God is indeed not a man.

20 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Jesus. John 2:19,21 "ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Λύσατε τὸν ναὸν τοῦτον καὶ ἐν τρισὶν ἡμέραις ἐγερῶ αὐτόν", "Jesus answered and said unto them Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" 21 "ἐκεῖνος δὲ ἔλεγεν περὶ τοῦ ναοῦ τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ", "But he spake of the temple of his body"


The Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 "εἰ δὲ τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ ἐγείραντος Ἰησοῦν ἐκ νεκρῶν οἰκεῖ ἐν ὑμῖν ὁ ἐγείρας τὸν Χριστὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν ζῳοποιήσει καὶ τὰ θνητὰ σώματα ὑμῶν διὰ τὸ ἐνοικοῦν αὐτοῦ Πνεῦμα ἐν ὑμῖν", "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you"

Jesus was talking about what is take place. 

In context, the verses show us that Jesus' body was the Temple of God; the Word tabernacled in human flesh and that flesh was the Father's Temple. He, this body of flesh, was the Father's Word and he spoke the words of the Father. This account is about the Father's house, the Temple. Jesus' words were not his own but the Father's who sent him.

This body of flesh, His Temple, was His Word to the world. Since he was the Father's Word, there were two witnesses as according to the Law. Jesus tells us many times in John's Gospel that he spoke the words of the Father. He kept his Father's word for eternal life.

He says, for I did not speak from myself, but the Father Himself who sent me has given me commandment as to what to say and what to speak. I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me.

  • John 3:34
  • John 6:30-36
  • John 12:50
  • John 14:10 (once again)

 

  • There in note,  Jesus is God’s Representative, enacting shaliah principle. Jesus always listens to God’s voice and speaks what God directs, hence the Jewish term, shaliah.


The words of Jesus at John 2:19 were the words of the Father. The Father's word is the word of life (1 John 1:1). In the Gospel of John, Jesus is the Father's word tabernacled in human flesh. Therefore, being the Father's word, what then did you expect the Father to say when these men asked Jesus by what authority he had cleared the Temple? Destroy this Temple and in 3 days I will raise it up.

As for Romans 8:11.... It alludes to the same thing, and it also adds the fact that those mentioned will also be raised up by God as well. You ignore this part of the verse for a reason, which is obvious. Because by means of your logic it would deem Christians to be God(s) in this sense, if you were to include that part, but the reality is, God has the ability to raise the dead, even entrusting said abilities to his own Son, Jesus, who can raise the dead (praying to God/asking him prior to resurrecting people), it also adds on to the fact that Christians because of God are made alive in the spirit, together in Christ.

Also it is best to remember the following: In he full passage, it says Jesus was given the authority to take it up again by a command of the Father. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to claim John 2:19 means Jesus is God because he raised his own body if he needed to be given the authority to do so by God.

Shiwii, who is also a Trinitarian, brought up this verse, John 2:19 (as well as Hebrews 8:11), same conclusion, for the Firstborn out of the dead cannot raise himself, the Living God is the one who raised him, as his enabling him to raise the dead, as is with him enabling his followers. Whereas the latter, like Cos had the same outcome.

20 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Remember that Jesus condescended Himself to take on the likeness (form, appearance) of man and the form of a servant. (Phil 2:7). His becoming a man involved gaining human attributes (subject to weakness, pain, sorrow and temptation), but not giving up his divine attributes.

This is concerning Jesus becoming a man, not God. The marginal references to the verse you mention points this out. Evidence of this is that it even points to John 1:14 (and cf.).

That being said, to say something incorruptible became corruptible is a contradiction granted the Bible itself said God is not a man, even confirmed by Jesus at the Well of Jacob.

On 5/13/2018 at 7:39 PM, Space Merchant said:
  • Numbers 23:19 - God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
  • 1 Samuel 15:29 - And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for he is not a man, that he should have regret.”
20 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

If you wish to talk about other standard passages the watchtower uses like John 20:28, John 20:17, John 17:3, I Corinthians 8:6, Psalm 110:1, etc. i would be more than happy to have a friendly, polite non-confrontational discussion.

I think most of your above points, i have done short videos on.

Unfortunately for you, Non-Trinitarianism is not isolated to Jehovah's Witnesses alone, even Restorationism that predates the JWs before they existed, granted Christians today and even 1st century Christians did not believe in the Trinity, and there is ample evidence to this, some of which refuted your assertions 6 ways through Sunday, in the past.

As for those verses you mentioned, you cited them several times to spin the narrative into Trinitarianism, all of which, were dis-proven with the actual and legitimate truth.

That being said, you are, this time around as hard boiled as the Trinitarian David Wood, or that of Bob The Builder.

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@Space Merchant Thank you for all your work in this matter. I'm sorry that i do not go this deep. I know the truth in my own heart and that is really what matters to me.  When it comes to Trinitarians I see it as 'casting pearls before swine' and I'd rather concentrate on other things. But, thank you for you work. 

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    • By Space Merchant
      The Gospel of John

      John 17:3
      "And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."

       
      ? Proof of Trinitarian Error

      At John 17:3, Jesus identifies the only true God as the Father, the God whom he reveals to the world. The Trinitarian response is to claim that since the word only modifies/qualifies the word God it does not rule out the possibility that Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, are also the only true God.
      And so Trinitarians like to say in response:
      The Father is the only true God The Son is the only true God The Holy Spirit is the only true God In other words, the Trinitarian is admitting that if the word only had qualified the word  Father then yes only the Father would be the one true God. But since it does not, the Trinitarian insists that it does not rule out Jesus and the Holy Spirit from being the only true God too.
      The Trickery, Exposing the cracks in the Trinitarian Armor
      1. Matthew 24:36

      But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
      We will begin with the above Trinitarian claim, which must be taken with a grain of salt. At Matthew 24:36, the word "only" DOES modify/qualify the Father and they still deny the obvious implications of the verse - that only the Father is omniscient and therefore only the Father is God. It says only the Father knows the day and hour. So we can see that even if Jesus had said, "Father.... this is eternal life, that ONLY You are the true God" that form of language still wouldn't make any difference to Trinitarians.
      God's day of judgement, that only he knows, will come like a thief in the night.

       
      2. Unwitting Admissions of Trinitarian Scholars

      In their discussions and debates of John 1:1, Trinitarians scholars admit that the use of a definite article at John 1:1c would have meant Jesus is the entirety of God and such language would exclude everyone else but Jesus. In fact, according to their own argument, all one would have to say is, "THE Father is THE God," and this would exclude absolutely everyone else. The words "only" and "true" would not even be required.
      3. Obvious Trinitarian Hypocrisy

      Trinitarians will insist that the expression, "God sent his only son", which means that nobody else is God's only-begotten son and it means that ONLY Jesus is God's only-begotten son. We must carefully regard the significance of this hypocrisy. On one hand, they insist the words "only Son" do mean that only Jesus is God's own son while at the same time they insist the words "only true God" do not mean that only the Father is the true God. But the situation is exactly the same. They are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Their claim that "only Son" means only Jesus is God's son betrays the fact that they really do know that John 17:3 is telling us only one person is the only true God.
      4. The Real Trinitarian Problem

      The real problem at hand for the Trinitarians is their implied definition of the word "God" for this verse. They must attempt to suggestively define the word "God" as "the divine ousia" or "the divine nature" since we are here talking about the one God and the oneness of Trinitarian doctrine is the divine nature. To define "God" as the divine nature here in this verse is the only definition of the word "God" which Trinitarians can even attempt:
      The Father is the only true [divine nature] The Son is the only true [divine nature] The Holy Spirit is the only true [divine nature] However, this will not even work for them at all. For Jesus to identify the Father as the divine nature would be confusing person and being, a big violation and or something they are not suppose to do in regards to their doctrine, that is, the Trinity. If the Father is identified as the divine nature that would mean Jesus' divine nature is the Father.
      5. "You" and "the only true God" are Necessary Equivalent.

      When Jesus says, "that they may know You, the only true God," it is quite clear that he intends to say that one is equivalent to the other. "You" = "the only true God." However, the only way Trinitarians can define the word "God" is to define it as "the divine nature." But that would imply that "You" and "Only true God" are equivalent things confusing the what and the who, person and being. Also, the Father is NOT equivalent to the divine nature since that would mean Jesus' divine nature is the Father in Trinitarian doctrine. When it is understood how they are suggestively defining their terms, it becomes clear that they are not making any sense.
      6. It's Not About Knowing a Nature but an Identity

      Jesus is here referring to knowing God the Father is a personal and intimate way, a personal relationship with God. The words "only true God" are a reference to an identity with whom we can have a relationship. We do not have relationships with natures; we have relationships with persons. And the person we are to have a relationship with here is "the only true God", that is, the Father.
      FATHER... that they may know YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom YOU sent.
      The words "only true God" cannot refer to a divine nature. These words must refer to an identity with whom we can know, that is, with whom we can have an intimate personal relationship. Therefore, just as Trinitarian scholars have already admitted, the Father and "the only true God" are co-extensive interchangeable terms and this excludes all but the Father from identity as the only true God. To have a relationship with the only true God is to have a relationship with the Father. One cannot then say that the only true God is also Jesus with running headlong into the insanity of saying Jesus is the Father.
      7. Jesus Christ's Only True God

      At John 20:17, Jesus makes it quite clear that his God is to be our God and that God is his Father. At John 17:3, Jesus is in prayer to his God and Father. His Father is his only true God and his only true God is his Father alone and it is this only true God who sent Jesus as he says here. Jesus knows nobody else but his Father as the true God. Hence, we can be certain that when he refers to the Father as "the only true God" in prayer that he means only his Father is the true God. In fact, Jesus does not even need to say it. It is plainly evident quite apart from John 17:3 that nobody else but his Father alone is his God.
       
      Conclusion
      It is quite plain that the Trinitarian trickery here is to suggestively imply a definition of the word "God" which means "divine nature" so that they can say all three persons are the only true God, that is, all three persons have this one divine nature. However, it is clear that the word "God" is not a nature here but an identity, a person, the Father, with whom we have a personal relationship.
      Jesus here identifies his one and only God, the Father alone, as "the only true God," which thereby excludes everyone else including himself.



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    • Emma Rose

      Would a kind soul please help me with how to reply using the quote more than once.
      · 5 replies
    • Dee Gordon  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      HI TWYLA...DEE GORDON HERE.  WOULD LIKE  TO CHANGE MY EMAIL ADDRESS YOU SEND MY MEETING WORKBOOK TO.  I DON'T USE FACEBOOK BUT WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO RECEIVE THE WORKBOOK INFO AND WATCHTOWER NOTES PLEASE . THIS ONE STILL RUNNING YOU HAVE ME SIGNED UP FOR...JUST THAT IT WOULD BE MORE CONVENIENT AT THIS TIME.
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    • Eric Ouellet

      RAPPEL DE JEHOVAH
       
      Aleph
      Parfait est mon chemin 
      Marche dans la voix de Dieu
      Cherche moi de tout ton coeur
      Garde mon témoignage, tu seras heureux.
      Oppose toi au mal
      Marche dans la voix de Dieu
      Observe ma volonté
      L'abîme de la honte tu ne connaîtras
      Mes justes lois 
      Instruit ton coeur en ma droiture.
      Aime moi de tout ton coeur,
      de toute ton esprit, de toute ton âme et de toute ta force vitale. (Souffle de vie)
      Je te rendrai grâce
      Laisse toi entièrement
      à ce que je te dis 
      D'OBSERVER
      TELLE DOIT ÊTRE TA VOLONTÉ
      Beth
      Écoute ma parole
      Garde pur ton chemin
      telle un enfant de Dieu.
      Ne t'écarte point de mes commandements
      Cherche moi de tout ton coeur
      Ne point faillir en toi
      La promesse que je t'ai dis 
      D'OBSERVER
      De tout ton coeur 
      Apprend ma volonté
      Béni seras -tu.
      Le jugement de ta bouche 
      Soit toute énuméré de mes lèvres.
      Que toutes richesses
      Jubiles
      Dans les témoignages de ma parole
      Regarde mon chemin que je t'ai donné 
      Médite sur mes préceptes
      N'oublie pas ma lois
      tes délices
      Tu les trouveras en fesant ma volonté
      Gimel
      Observe ma parole
      tu vivras
      Sois bon envers autrui
      Merveille est ma voie
      Regarde
      Ouvre tes yeux
      Ne cache point mes commandements
      Car un étranger de la terre tu seras
      En tout temps suit mon jugement
      Si tu le désires
      Que mes yeux se tourne vers toi.
      Reste et guide ta vie sur mes normes divine.
      Car t'en égarer tu seras maudit.
      Les suivres te rendront parfait
      Garde mon témoignage
      ainsi
      Tu ne connaîtras le mépris
      Médite sur ma volonté
      Ne parle jamais contre moi
      Tu deviendras un homme parfait.
      Mes conseilles met les dans ton coeur
      De tout mon témoignage
      Tu vivras tout les trésors de la vie.
      Dalèt
      Vivifie toi en moi 
      Car ton âme est collé à la poussière
      Apprend mon adage
      Énumère ma loi
      Je te répondrai
      Médite sur mes desseins
      Tu comprendras mes préceptes
      Relève toi en ma droiture
      Ton âme ne connaîtra le chagrin
      Grâce à ma loi 
      Tu te détourneras de la voie du mensonge
      Conforme est ma loi 
      choisi la voie de JEHOVAH. (YHWH)
      Guide tes actions vers ma justice
      Immerge toi dans ma connaissance 
      Élargi ton coeur et marche dans la voie 
      De mes commandements

      Heureux ceux qui garde le chemin,
      la voie de mon salut.
      Enseigne toi, La voie de l'univers celle de ma sainte Parole.
      Observe de tout ton coeur
      Garde en toi 
      Tu comprendras, là ton cheminement
      Guide toi au chemin de ma parole
      Ne guide ton coeur vers le gain de ce système de choses.
      Fléchis ton coeur et vivifie toi en mon royaume.
      De ma parole
      Libère tes yeux de l'illusion
      Craint le Dieu Très Haut
      Tiens tes promesses telle un fidèle serviteur
      Que mes lois soit le bienvenu en toi 
      ainsi
      Tu seras libéré de toutes insultes
      Vivifie toi! Dans ma justice
      Béni seras tu!
      Désirs mes préceptes
      Telle doit être ta volonté
      zayin
      Garde les promesses qui viennent de ton coeur
      Ton salut est en mon dessin
      Amour du Dieu Très Haut
      Garde ma parole
      Aucune riposte et insulte est ma Parole.
      Espère en ma promesse et en mon royaume
      Guide ta bouche vers la parole de la vérité.
      Toujour et à jamais
      Sans relâche
      Médite sur ma parole que Je t'ai donné
      Cherche mes préceptes
      Engage ta démarche dans ton coeur
      J'élargirai ta vie
      Ne sois acerbe en ma parole
      Quelle devienne un délice à ton palais.
      Médite en ma volonté
      Aime mon commandement
      Ouvre les mains, Je te bénirai
      TAV
      Fonde ton espoir en ma volonté
      Deviens mon serviteur
      Rappelle toi de ma parole
      Vivifie toi !En ma Sagesse
      Je te délivrerai de ceux qui ton outragé
      Reste sur la voie de ma loi
      Console toi par la prière et la méditation venant de tout ton être.
      Ma parole te soutiendra dans les moments difficiles de ta vie.
      Reste dans le chemin que je t'ai donné.
      Que ta colère garde l'amour en ma volonté
      Je te délivrerai de ton impureté.
      Préserve le coeur d'enfant que je t'ai donné
      Sois ferme dans ton coeur
      Louange mon Nom pour toujour.
      Observe ma loi dans tout l'univers de ton être
      De cette volonté, ton âme s'illumineras
      Dans la nuit
      Je me souviendrai de ton nom.
      Garde en toi mes préceptes et souviens toi de mon Nom.
      Elle sera ta délivrance éternelle.
      AINSI TU CONNAÎTRAS MA PROMESSE DE VIVRE POUR TOUJOUR, AU PARADIS.
      Amen
      YHWH (JEHOVAH)
      Erico

      · 0 replies
    • Eric Ouellet

      Apprenons à craindre Jéhovah
      “ La crainte de Jéhovah est le début de la sagesse. ” — PROVERBES 9:10.

      IL FUT un temps où dire de quelqu’un craignait Dieu était un compliment. Beaucoup jugent aujourd’hui désuète et illogique l’idée de craindre Dieu. " Pourquoi craindre Dieu s’il est amour?" s’étonnent-ils. C’est que la crainte est à leurs yeux un sentiment forcément négatif, voire paralysant. Or, la crainte de Dieu, la vraie, est bien autre chose que de la peur et, comme nous allons le voir, elle ne se résume pas à un sentiment.
       La Bible présente la crainte de Dieu sous un jour positif (Isaïe 11:3). Craindre Dieu, c’est éprouver envers lui un profond respect et désirer vivement ne pas lui déplaire (Psaume 115:11). C’est aussi accepter ses normes morales et s’y conformer strictement, appliquer dans notre vie ses critères du bien et du mal. Un ouvrage de référence indique que cette crainte salutaire exprime “ un rapport à Dieu, une disposition d’esprit dominante, qui incite à se conduire avec sagesse et à rejeter le mal sous toutes ses formes ”. La Bible dit d’ailleurs que “ la crainte de Jéhovah est le début de la sagesse ”. — Proverbes 9:10.
      La crainte de Dieu influe sur de nombreux domaines de l’existence. Outre la sagesse, elle favorise la joie, la paix, la prospérité, la longévité, l’espoir, la confiance (Psaume 2:11 ; Proverbes 1:7 ; 10:27 ; 14:26 ; 22:4 ; 23:17, 18 ; Actes 9:31). Elle est étroitement liée à la foi et à l’amour. Pour tout dire, elle touche tous les aspects de nos relations avec Dieu et avec les humains (Deutéronome 10:12 ; Job 6:14 ; Hébreux 11:7). Craindre Dieu, enfin, c’est avoir la ferme conviction que notre Père céleste se soucie de nous personnellement et qu’il est disposé à pardonner nos transgressions (Psaume 130:4). Il n’y a donc qu’aux pécheurs non repentants que Dieu devrait inspirer de la terreur. — Hébreux 10:26-31.
      APPRENONS À CRAINDRE DIEU
      Puisqu’il est indispensable de le craindre pour prendre de sages décisions et recevoir ses bénédictions, comment "apprendre à craindre Jéhovah"
      dans le bon sens du terme (Deutéronome 17:19) ? De nombreux exemples d’hommes et de femmes qui craignaient Dieu ont été consignés dans les Écritures “ pour notre instruction ”. (Romains 15:4.) Intéressons-nous à la vie de l’un de ces personnages, le roi David.
      Saül, le premier roi d’Israël, avait la crainte du peuple, mais pas la crainte de Dieu. Cela lui a valu d’être rejeté par Jéhovah (1 Samuel 15:24-26). David, lui, était un homme qui craignait vraiment Dieu ; sa vie et son intimité avec Jéhovah en témoignent. Les nombreuses nuits à la belle étoile qu’il avait passées dans sa jeunesse à faire paître les moutons de son père l’avaient certainement aidé à comprendre ce qu’est la crainte de Jéhovah (1 Samuel 16:11). De l’immense univers, il n’avait contemplé qu’une infime partie, mais cela lui avait suffi pour saisir l’essentiel : Dieu mérite respect et adoration. “ Quand je vois tes cieux, les œuvres de tes doigts, la lune et les étoiles que tu as préparées, écrira-t-il plus tard, qu’est-ce que le mortel pour que tu penses à lui, et le fils de l’homme tiré du sol pour que tu t’occupes de lui ? ” — Psaume 8:3, 4.
      Il était normal que David soit impressionné quand il comparait sa petitesse à l’immensité des cieux étoilés. Mais, loin de l’effrayer, cette connaissance le portait à louer Jéhovah. “ Les cieux proclament la gloire de Dieu, a-t-il écrit ; et l’œuvre de ses mains, l’étendue l’annonce. ” (Psaume 19:1). Ce profond respect le rapprochait de Jéhovah ; il lui donnait envie d’apprendre ses voies parfaites et de les suivre. Percevez-vous les sentiments qui l’habitaient quand il chantait ce psaume : “ Tu es grand et tu fais des choses prodigieuses ; tu es Dieu, toi seul. Instruis-moi de ta voie, ô Jéhovah ! Je marcherai dans ta vérité. Unifie mon cœur pour craindre ton nom. ” — Psaume 86:10, 11.
      Quand les Philistins ont envahi le pays d’Israël, leur champion, Goliath, a provoqué les Israélites du haut de ses trois mètres. " Envoyez donc quelqu’un m’affronter en combat singulier ! les narguait-il. S’il me bat, nous serons vos serviteurs. " (1 Samuel 17:4-10). Saül et toute son armée étaient terrifiés. Mais pas David. S’il devait craindre quelqu’un, c’était Jéhovah, et non un homme, si fort soit-il. “ Je viens vers toi avec le nom de Jéhovah des armées, a-t-il lancé à Goliath. [...] Et toute cette assemblée saura que ce n’est ni par l’épée ni par la lance que Jéhovah sauve réellement, car à Jéhovah appartient la bataille. ” Grâce à Jéhovah, une fronde et une pierre ont suffi à David pour abattre le géant. — 1 Samuel 17:45-47.
      Il peut arriver que nous nous trouvions devant des obstacles ou des ennemis aussi intimidants que ceux qu’a dû affronter David. Que faire alors ? Imiter David et d’autres fidèles du passé en s’armant de la crainte de Dieu. La crainte de Dieu l’emporte sur la crainte de l’homme. À ses compatriotes en butte à l’opposition, le fidèle Nehémia a adressé cette exhortation : “ N’ayez pas peur à cause d’eux. Souvenez-vous de Jéhovah le Grand et le Redoutable. ” (Nehémia 4:14). C’est parce qu’ils avaient son soutien que David, Nehémia et d’autres ont réussi à faire ce que Jéhovah attendait d’eux. Nous le pourrons également si nous craignons Dieu.
      Après celle sur Goliath, Jéhovah a accordé d’autres victoires à David. Jaloux, Saül a tenté de tuer le jeune homme, d’abord dans un geste de colère, puis par des moyens détournés, enfin en mobilisant toute une armée contre lui. Même si David avait reçu l’assurance qu’il serait roi, pendant des années il a dû fuir, se battre, et attendre le moment fixé par Jéhovah. Dans toutes ces situations, il ne s’est jamais départi de sa crainte du vrai Dieu. — 1 Samuel 18:9, 11, 17 ; 24:2.
      À un moment donné, David s’est réfugié auprès d’Akish, le roi de Gath, ville philistine d’où était originaire Goliath (1 Samuel 21:10-15). Les serviteurs d’Akish l’ont dénoncé comme ennemi. Comment a-t-il réagi à cette situation périlleuse ? Il s’est confié à Jéhovah de tout son cœur (Psaume 56:1-4, 11-13). Il s’est finalement sorti du guêpier en simulant la démence, mais il était bien conscient de devoir son salut à Jéhovah, qui avait béni son stratagème. David a prouvé qu’il craignait vraiment Dieu en plaçant toute sa confiance en lui. — Psaume 34:4-6, 9-11.
      À l’exemple de David, nous montrerons que nous craignons Dieu en ayant confiance en sa promesse de nous aider dans les épreuves. “ Roule ta voie sur Jéhovah, compte sur lui, et c’est lui qui agira ”, a affirmé David (Psaume 37:5). Cela ne veut pas dire qu’il faut mettre nos problèmes entre les mains de Jéhovah sans rien faire d’autre qu’attendre son intervention. David ne s’est pas contenté de prier et de voir venir. Il a cherché une solution à son problème en utilisant les capacités physiques et intellectuelles dont Jéhovah l’avait doté. Pour autant, il ne pensait pas que ses efforts d’humain suffiraient. Cette façon de voir devrait aussi être la nôtre. Faisons tout ce qui est en notre pouvoir, puis laissons Jéhovah se charger du reste. Cela étant, il est fréquent que nous ne puissions rien faire d’autre que compter sur Jéhovah. C’est là que la crainte de Dieu revêt un caractère très personnel. Combien est réconfortante cette réflexion de David : “ L’intimité avec Jéhovah appartient à ceux qui le craignent. ” — Psaume 25:14.
      Il s’agit donc de ne pas banaliser nos prières et nos relations avec Dieu. Lorsque nous nous ‘ avançons ’ vers Jéhovah, nous devons “ croire qu’il est, et qu’il devient celui qui récompense ceux qui le cherchent réellement ”. (Hébreux 11:6 ; Jacques 1:5-8.) Et quand il vient à notre aide, il nous faut, conformément au conseil de l’apôtre Paul, ‘ nous montrer reconnaissants ’. (Colossiens 3:15, 17.) Ne ressemblons jamais à ceux dont un chrétien oint expérimenté a dit : “ Ils prennent Dieu pour une sorte de garçon de café. Ils aimeraient qu’il réponde à un claquement de doigts dès qu’ils ont besoin de quelque chose, et qu’il disparaisse dès qu’ils ont eu ce qu’ils voulaient. ” Où est leur crainte de Dieu ?
      Le fait que Jéhovah l’ait secouru a augmenté la confiance et la crainte que David éprouvait envers lui (Psaume 31:22-24). Trois fois, cependant, David a mis notablement sa crainte de Dieu entre parenthèses, ce qui a eu des conséquences tragiques. La première fois, c’est quand il a décidé de faire transporter l’arche de l’alliance à Jérusalem sur un chariot, et non sur les épaules des Lévites comme le prescrivait la Loi. Ouzza, qui conduisait le chariot, a saisi l’Arche pour l’empêcher de tomber. Dieu l’a fait mourir sur le champ pour cet “ acte d’irrévérence ”. Certes, Ouzza avait commis un péché grave, mais c’est bien David qui, pour n’avoir pas respecté la Loi divine, était responsable de ce drame. Craindre Dieu suppose que l’on fasse les choses comme lui l’entend. — 2 Samuel 6:2-9 ; Nombres 4:15 ; 7:9.
      Une autre fois, sous l’impulsion de Satan, David a procédé au dénombrement des hommes de guerre en Israël (1 Chroniques 21:1). Là encore, il a cessé momentanément de craindre Dieu, ce qui a coûté la vie à 70 000 de ses compatriotes. Bien qu’il se soit repenti devant Jéhovah, lui et le peuple ont beaucoup souffert en la circonstance. — 2 Samuel 24:1-16
      C’est aussi parce qu’il avait oublié sa crainte de Dieu que David a couché avec Bath-Shéba, la femme d’Ouriya. David savait qu’il était mal, non seulement de commettre l’adultère, mais aussi de désirer la femme d’un autre (Exode 20:14, 17). Tout a commencé quand il a aperçu Bath-Shéba qui se baignait. La crainte de Dieu lui commandait de détourner son regard immédiatement et de maîtriser ses pensées. Mais il a manifestement ‘ continué à regarder ’, si bien que la passion l’a emporté sur sa crainte de Dieu (Matthieu 5:28 ; 2 Samuel 11:1-4). David a oublié que Jéhovah devait être présent dans tous les domaines de sa vie. — Psaume 139:1-7.
      De son adultère avec Bath-Shéba est né un fils. Peu après, Jéhovah a envoyé le prophète Nathân dénoncer le péché de David. Retrouvant la crainte de Dieu en même temps que la raison, celui-ci s’est repenti. Il a supplié Jéhovah de ne pas le rejeter et de ne pas lui retirer son esprit saint (Psaume 51:7, 11). Jéhovah lui a pardonné et a atténué le châtiment, mais il ne lui a pas épargné toutes les conséquences de ses actes. Le fils de David est mort ; les malheurs se sont succédé dans sa famille. Quel prix à payer pour avoir momentanément fait abstraction de la crainte de Dieu ! — 2 Samuel 12:10-14 ; 13:10-14 ; 15:14.
      Aujourd’hui de même, ne pas craindre Dieu dans le domaine de la moralité peut avoir des conséquences graves et durables. Imaginez la douleur de cette jeune femme qui découvre que son mari chrétien l’a trompée lors d’un déplacement professionnel à l’étranger. Choquée, anéantie par le chagrin, elle enfouit son visage dans ses mains et pleure toutes les larmes de son corps. Combien de temps faudra-t-il au mari infidèle pour regagner la confiance et le respect de sa femme ? Des situations aussi pénibles peuvent être évitées grâce à la crainte de Dieu. — 1 Corinthiens 6:18.
      Satan détruit les valeurs morales de la société humaine les unes après les autres, et il cherche particulièrement à corrompre les vrais chrétiens. Pour ce faire, il exploite le chemin le plus direct vers le cœur et l’esprit : nos sens, avec une prédilection pour l’ouïe et la vue (Éphésiens 4:17-19). Comment réagissez-vous quand, involontairement, vous vous trouvez exposé à des images ou à des paroles obscènes, ou encore en présence d’individus immoraux ?
      Voyez le cas d’André. Cet ancien et père de famille est médecin dans un pays d’Europe. Quand il était de garde de nuit à l’hôpital, des collègues féminines avaient pris l’habitude d’épingler sur son oreiller des mots doux ornés de petits cœurs pour l’inviter à coucher avec elles. André s’interdisait résolument d’accorder la moindre pensée à ces avances. Mieux, pour se soustraire à cet environnement malsain, il a changé d’établissement. Sa crainte de Dieu s’est révélée sage et lui a valu des bénédictions, puisqu’il effectue aujourd’hui une partie de ses activités au siège des Témoins de Jéhovah de son pays.
      Troquer nos précieuses relations avec Jéhovah contre quelque chose auquel nous n’avons pas droit : voilà où nous risquons d’en arriver en cultivant de mauvaises pensées (Jacques 1:14, 15). Si nous craignons Jéhovah, en revanche, nous nous tiendrons éloignés — et même nous nous écarterons délibérément — des gens, des lieux, des activités ou des divertissements qui pourraient nous faire baisser notre garde (Proverbes 22:3). Quel que soit l’inconvénient ou le sacrifice que cela implique, il n’est rien à côté de la perte de la faveur divine (Matthieu 5:29, 30). La crainte de Dieu nous commande de ne jamais nous exposer intentionnellement à quoi que ce soit d’immoral — à commencer par la pornographie sous toutes ses formes —, mais aussi de faire en sorte que nos yeux “ passent sans s’arrêter à la vue de ce qui n’est que néant ”. Soyons convaincus que Jéhovah, alors, nous ‘ gardera en vie ’ et nous donnera tout ce dont nous avons réellement besoin. — Psaume 84:11 ; 119:37.
       Assurément, c’est toujours faire preuve de sagesse que de laisser la crainte de Dieu dicter nos actions. C’est aussi la source du vrai bonheur (Psaume 34:9)

      · 2 replies
    • T Naidoo  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Please email me the  Pure worship scripture via email tennyson@capemedia.co.za please I still have a problemdownloading the info. 
      Thank you
      Tennyson Naidoo
      · 1 reply
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