"SPECIAL INVESTIGATION INTO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

I'll say one thing again :-

You have to be an ex- 'JW' to KNOW how the Elders and the CCJW works.  Just reading info' about JW Org does not give a person the real insight. Unfortunately Space Merchant THINKS he knows the CCJW / JW Org, but he doesn't.  No matter how much you read about something it does not match up to personal experience. Some of us do not just rely on news media reports, we actually know what the CCJW is like first hand. 

That is untrue, people know how faiths operate despite not being affiliated with them, all it takes is careful research and understanding the outworkings of things. There is more information out there outside of the website of the faith community, you can also speak with them on a neutral footing, especially pastors, elders, rabbis, etc. be it current and or former members who holds a title in religious office.

I do know because I have studied them, even talked to both sides. I would like you to point out as to what I do not know - please do, I want to see. That said, regarding CSA, you have to be naive and ignorant to assume it is only isolated to a single group and assume that everyone outside of the faith community is ignorant of CSA, that is totally absurd. Also you address you know first hand, but you take misinformation as truth in other cases, how does this work?

But personal experience does not replace the facts here, granted the article in question with comments from News Corp. You now have even former JWs and atheism developing skepticism regarding the story coming from Australia itself.

If that is the case, why have you relied on news reports in the past? The thing is, the focus is the facts itself, granted the article in question is right-center bias, facts can be found elsewhere.

That being said, as I recall, you speak this, yet your other responses do not reflect what you preach, that is hypocritical.

For someone who is this keen on mentioning CSA time and time again, it is striking that even solutions provided by the ones you seek aid from, it often ignored. Which brings question, has any one of you provided any solution to helping children in general? The question I asked you elsewhere regarding children was a critical one, as I had told Srecko in the past, to which he brushed off and laughed at. This is coming from someone who has taken action for years now concerning CSA.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

My last SIX topics I've put up on this forum do not relate to CSA, so stop exaggerating @Space Merchant

And even then you tear my topics to pieces. So, sorry SM, I cannot take you too seriously. You also take a lot of words to say very little. You seem to go round and round in circles. 

The only people that KNOW how a faith truly operates are the people inside that faith. I laugh when you say you can speak with Elders on a neutral footings, that is so funny. Elders will tell you what they want you to know. And the GB have said that Elders can tell lies to protect the CCJW Org. They call it 'spiritual warfare'. 

Quote " I would like you to point out as to what I do not know - please do, I want to see. "

That has been done many times, BUT YOU DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT PEOPLE TELL YOU, because you THINK you know better. 

There is exaggeration on both sides. the very Anti-JWs that make videos etc exaggerate the problems. AND the GB, Writing Department, COs, Elders exaggerate in the opposite direction. Please remember that the GB said it was all apostate rumours, until a lot of it was proven as fact.

As for CSA being Earthwide, everybody knows that. But, this is a JW forum and I am only interested in the CCJW.

True Christians should be 'no part of the world'. And true Christians should not be trying to solve worldly problems. If a person is directly involved in an incident or can help those close to them then yes of course help, but, not spend time or money trying to put right things the world over.

My point of being on this forum is, to either see the CCJW / JW Org / Watchtower, cleansed by God through Christ, or, to see the beginning of a new religion that will serve God properly. I am therefore not looking at 'the rest of the world' from this viewpoint. 

As for this comment of yours :-

" it is striking that even solutions provided by the ones you seek aid from, it often ignored. "

Who are you suggesting that I am 'seeking aid from' ? For in my opinion only God and Christ can set matter straight. 

[JJJ-AUSTRALIA]

Interesting Australian news today, the Australian Government has put JW on notice if they don't join the Scheme. 

 

[Witness]

21 hours ago, Witness said:

My focus is on my people in the organization, not on the political, religious movements in the world. 

 

21 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Then focus on it.

I do, but not according to YOUR way.  

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

35 minutes ago, Witness said:

 

I do, but not according to YOUR way.  

Yes, rather bossy isn't he  

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@JJJ-AUSTRALIA  Can you explain exactly what being put 'on notice' actually means. Is it a warning that they will lose their charitable status ?  I couldn't find any links but I'm in UK so maybe not available here.

 

 

[JJJ-AUSTRALIA]

Yes the Watchtower has been put on notice if they dont sign up by June deadline to the Australian Scheme they will loose they charity status, yesterday The project news tv channel reported the watchtower had declared they will be no joining the scheme because they do not have in place any institutions with in the organization to deal with this in other words Jehovah hasn't had the time to put anything in place for the victims because he is either too busy selling KHs and providing spiritual food. 😆😆😆

[Space Merchant]

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

My last SIX topics I've put up on this forum do not relate to CSA, so stop exaggerating @Space Merchant

And your point? I merely stated that we can do much more to help the children out there when we apply better solutions, as even prompted by those who fight child abuse the correct way.

 

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And even then you tear my topics to pieces. So, sorry SM, I cannot take you too seriously. You also take a lot of words to say very little. You seem to go round and round in circles. 

Because regarding serious issues, you are applying things that some can point out as untrue. To assume that people in or out of the faith community in question are oblivious and an untrue statement.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

The only people that KNOW how a faith truly operates are the people inside that faith. I laugh when you say you can speak with Elders on a neutral footings, that is so funny. Elders will tell you what they want you to know. And the GB have said that Elders can tell lies to protect the CCJW Org. They call it 'spiritual warfare'.

And yet ARC is aware after further analyzes, granted they are not among the faith community. This statement of yours just shows you are going about this by means of emotions rather than the truth itself.

You laugh? I pointed out 8 examples in the past, need I cite more and or quote said information?

Each pastor or elder of a faith are different, especially their level of expertise and experience. To each area, to each language, they differ, some of them, good, some of them, bad, etc. Just because you were formerly a Jehovah's Witness, does not mean you some how miraculously know every single one of them granted they originally shared the same faith as you. That is, indeed an absurd statement, granted facts I posted here in the past, one of them to which you made a remark to.

The thing is with them, there are some truths in this, no one is questioning that, however, there are people out there, that tend to go beyond what is true and muddle the information in a negative way - all groups suffer from this, mainly from disgruntled former members.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Quote " I would like you to point out as to what I do not know - please do, I want to see. "

That has been done many times, BUT YOU DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT PEOPLE TELL YOU, because you THINK you know better. 

No has not, hence as to WHY I made that statement.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

There is exaggeration on both sides. the very Anti-JWs that make videos etc exaggerate the problems. AND the GB, Writing Department, COs, Elders exaggerate in the opposite direction. Please remember that the GB said it was all apostate rumours, until a lot of it was proven as fact.

You are confusing Anti-JWs with ExJWs. Anti-JWs do not like Jehovah's Witnesses, nor do they like former Jehovah's Witnesses. They do focus on both sides, however, they merely point out the facts in the matter, several examples I've pointed out in the past, the first one was noted back in 2017, another was related to the information Witness pointed out in regards to Pearl's content.

According to the facts, regarding CSA, there has been rumors created, in turn mixes in with factual information concerning child abuse. So yes, they are in the right to make that statement.

That being said, ARC gave us he information, but there are former JWs who twist this information, only for other ExJWs or even Anti-JWs to come into the picture to state otherwise, as with onlookers into the situation.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

As for CSA being Earthwide, everybody knows that. But, this is a JW forum and I am only interested in the CCJW.

All children matter, regardless of the faith and or institution, be it you are former and or current. Every child deserves the help needed, and it is up to those who are going about things the correct way instead of a mindless trek, to do that.

Hence, my experience concerning CSA. I care not of any institution, or do I isolate my interest into one specific group, my focus, concerning CSA is everywhere, granted the issue is indeed a critical one. That is why in my statement concerning helping children, I made this point a strong one, even with biblical backing.

That being said, thanks to why my blood, and sweat has done, children are applying what I have taught them, to help anyone, anywhere, and in regards to child abuse, they are capable of reaching one to teach one, so in turn they do the same thing, likewise to Jesus giving instruction regarding the commission to make disciples. We can teach the children, but the thing is, can you contribute?

Reasons why I asked you that question in the other thread of what is the greatest protection for a child is because you are a parent, that is something you should know.

So in turn, my interest is child abuse in general, not isolated to a single institution, as you have your eyes set., for I take it seriously due to me teaching CSA prevention.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

My point of being on this forum is, to either see the CCJW / JW Org / Watchtower, cleansed by God through Christ, or, to see the beginning of a new religion that will serve God properly. I am therefore not looking at 'the rest of the world' from this viewpoint. 

But here is the problem, CSA cannot be cleansed out 100%. This is indeed a very sad reality, what we can do is teach and prevent instances where we can, if you cannot do it alone, the one whom you teach, can partake in this action.

That being said, to protect children is not merely a viewpoint of the world, it comes from the Bible too, I pointed that out a multitude of times, mainly on my thread about CSA.

As pointed out, you really this adamant of cleansing the faith of the Jehovah's Witnesses? Then apply the solutions. If the Swahili JW can do it, what is stopping you? If others, who are not even JWs can do it? What is stopping you?

That said, fighting Child Abuse the wrong way only causes more and more pedophiles to run rampant in any institution of their choosing. Granted you mentioned Anti-JW, one has pointed out, to which I cited a while ago on this forum, is ExJWs are letting pedophiles know to come to the Jehovah's Witnesses, to exploit them in order to gain access to children.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

As for this comment of yours :-

" it is striking that even solutions provided by the ones you seek aid from, it often ignored. "

Who are you suggesting that I am 'seeking aid from' ? For in my opinion only God and Christ can set matter straight. 

The solutions in question is in regards to helping children, all of which can be found in God's Word in terms of teaching them, protecting them, making sure they are aware of each step they take, likewise, with what you,a s a parent, as a guardian, entrusted on to them, they can teach others, and should they bare children, they teach them as well.

That being said, God and his Christ pointed this out in the Word, perhaps apply it, in doing so, you can be an obstacle between a child falling victim.

Everything, is of God's Word, as I addressed in the past. Just so you know, there are those who fought CSA the wrong way, they applied this too, and they themselves have helped children and even adults become fighters in CSA, you should do the same:

 

[Space Merchant]

6 hours ago, Witness said:

 

I do, but not according to YOUR way.  

Are you sure? because last I checked, my responses was towards Srecko, then you interjected, hence what brings us to where we are now, Witness:

That being said, nothing of your claim...

On 6/19/2020 at 5:34 PM, Witness said:

And, I should remind you, I am not interested in "mainstream religion", in the least.  My focus is on the Watchtower and the people inside. 

Even correlates... Likewise to that silly video whereas the history says otherwise. Just so you know, both the far left and right are burning bibles.

 

That being said, as I told Srecko, the claims are of News Corp, and there is skepticism of these claims from current, former JWs, as with the onlookers, some of them, even going into the history of this Journalist. Moreover, Lara also had an issue with law enforcement, granted, some even in law had their own history with CSA as history points out.

[Space Merchant]

4 hours ago, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

Yes the Watchtower has been put on notice if they dont sign up by June deadline to the Australian Scheme they will loose they charity status, yesterday The project news tv channel reported the watchtower had declared they will be no joining the scheme because they do not have in place any institutions with in the organization to deal with this in other words Jehovah hasn't had the time to put anything in place for the victims because he is either too busy selling KHs and providing spiritual food. 😆😆😆

Yes, for a few months back, to all those who did not sign, including the Jehovah's Witnesses, they were told to reconsider signing it. This was before the selling of course, hence the article.

The mention of not signing was before Project News TV, in addition to that, they got their numbers mixed up on live television.

So what remains now are the News Corp Claims because there is a ton of skepticism as of late.

[Space Merchant]

With further research, there is about 762 church congregations of the Jehovah’s Witness faith alone in Australia. We also already know there is about 68,000 (68k) adherents in the area as well. Regarding populace and the change of demographics, within a long span of time, they have sold off some of their churches, as is with buying, expanding and or mitigating, etc. The facts of course are minor, at this time, in addition, some of their churches have been used for decades and as with anyone they took the approach deem necessary. The source itself even points out to an explanation of this action.

Now as for the additional info.

There is also information on The Redress Scheme process: https://www.nationalredress.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2018-06/FACTSHEET_Who can apply_1.pdf

The article has been brought up again with additional information:

This time it refers to the faith in question, Jehovah’s Witnesses, does not have an Institutional Settings, that the voluntary National Redress Scheme is designed to cover. It continues to state that, which was already pointed out, The Ministry for Families and Social Services has been advised that Jehovah’s Witnesses will not join the Scheme, which was mentioned prior. It states that the Jehovah’s Witnesses understand that, to date, there have been less than 10 applicants to The Redress Scheme who have referred to the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses, in addition to that, Jehovah’s Witnesses have responded and it is stated by them that they will continue to respond directly to individual claims for redress in a caring, fair, and principled manner, taking into consideration the unique circumstances of each claim, as is with the whole provisions of bringing forth comfort and the like, assistance, etc.

The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse acknowledged that the faith in question, Jehovah’s Witnesses, do not have the institutional settings in many faith-based institutions. (which also brings New Corp into question when they were called for inaccuracies) : 

The position of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and or the organization itself (granted the article is focused on Australia) is that, as even pointed out by ARC, they abhor child sex abuse and that it will not protect any perpetrator and the key submissions made on behalf of the Watchtower itself was familial child sexual abuse, which is not (also not to be confused with) institutional sex abuse (again ARC gives us this evidence). 

Again because ARC gives us the evidence in this regard, it is noted that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have not sponsored any programs or activities that separate children from their parents at any time, they do not operate boarding schools or Sunday schools; they do not have youth groups, choirs or sponsor any programs for children; neither do they run orphanages, day-care centres, hospitals nor youth centres. Jehovah’s Witnesses simply do not have the institutional settings that result in children being taken into their care, custody, supervision, control or authority.

[Equivocation]

What confuses me is you have news corp saying stuff, but others are talking about arc. Also I don't recall JWs surpassing others who had a talking to by arc. Surely, there is more information out there, or is this still ongoing? The more information that comes out we can see who is telling the true, what is correct and what is incorrect but dudes out here making assumptions too so that needs to be watched, being cautious and all 🤔