God's Kingdom but who's in it ?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-teach/what-is-gods-kingdom/

²³ For how long? During the 19th and 20th centuries, sincere Bible students progressively discerned that the waiting period would end in 1914. (Regarding this  date, see the Appendix article “1914—A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy.”) World events that began in 1914 confirm that the understanding of these sincere Bible students was correct. The fulfillment of Bible prophecy shows that in 1914, Christ became King and God’s heavenly Kingdom began to rule. Hence, we are living in the “short period of time” that Satan has left. (Revelation 12:12; Psalm 110:2) We can also say with certainty that soon God’s Kingdom will act to cause God’s will to be done on earth.

But the disciples were not there. Jesus was already King and had his authority since 33 C.E. So how was the Kingdom set up if no one was there to rule ?

Yes of course Almighty God was there, and Jesus Christ was there (and the Angels), but we have learnt that the disciples / Apostles are still asleep in the grave. We have learnt that they will be resurrected at the same time that the living Anointed will be 'transformed' from human to spirit. 

There had been previous teaching in the CCJW that the Apostles had been resurrected already, but now by studying the scriptures we can see that is not true. So please explain how the Kingdom started to rule in 1914 ?  It is God's Kingdom, with Christ as the King, but there seems to be no one else ruling it at this time ? 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

There had been previous teaching in the CCJW that the Apostles had been resurrected already, but now by studying the scriptures we can see that is not true. So please explain how the Kingdom started to rule in 1914 ?  It is God's Kingdom, with Christ as the King, but there seems to be no one else ruling it at this time ? 

 

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Apostles are still asleep in the grave. We have learnt that they will be resurrected at the same time that the living Anointed will be 'transformed' from human to spirit. 

If 144000 are "Kings" and "Priests", than Kingdom which started in 33 or in 1914 is not complete or legal enough without all "governors" as members of government or administration. If Jesus is able, entitled to make decisions and to rule without 144000 now, today, than he is capable to doing this in the future too. In that respect 144000 is not necessary to participate in administration in the "heaven" or on the "earth".

[Witness]

On 8/12/2020 at 2:24 PM, 4Jah2me said:

World events that began in 1914 confirm that the understanding of these sincere Bible students was correct.

Isn’t it true that we believe Satan is the reigning “king” of darkness?  The “ruler” of this world? (John 12:31) From the first century, Jesus has been a reigning king of light. 

A king receives authority to rule.

“And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”  Matt 28:18

A king conquers.

“I have said these things to you so that in me you may have peace. In the world you have affliction, but have courage! I have conquered the world.”  John 16:33

Christ’s light has overpowered the darkness of Satan. 

“The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it.”  John 1:5

Does he need any of us to rule with him? No, but the purpose of the 144,000 Bride of Christ is to bring to fulfillment to the New Covenant promise of life; firstly, to those of his Bride, and then to all of God’s children.  Jesus, “the righteous one” (1 John 2:1; Heb 1:8,9),  shares with his anointed faithful, kings/priests (whether male or female), what he inherited as the “firstborn” seed of Abraham – the earth! (Gen 22:17; Gal 3:26-29) Adam lost his inheritance, the “second Adam” receives it.  (Hos 6:7; Ps 2:7,8)   

The “righteous shall inherit the land”.  (Ps 37:29)  Are the faithful 144,000 not found “righteous” as Jesus? (Rev 19:8)  The full spectrum of the Kingdom where Christ and the anointed “rule”,  is both “heavenly” and “earthly”.  (2 Pet 3:13)  Each sealed anointed one is “in Christ”, becoming one with him, just as he is one with God.  At the end of their physical life, they rule immediately with Christ in heaven. They are not waiting for a resurrection.  And, these “righteous” ones in Christ, are “kings” sealed in “heaven”, while still on the earth.  Heb 12:10; Rev 5:9,10  Being in heaven or being “heavenly”, is a spiritual state, it is not a place, as the earth is an established place. 

 Can we not picture the apostles as priests and kings reigning with Christ, even before they lost their physical life? They were sealed in the “heavens” before they died.  (2 Cor 1:22) The priests are “messengers” (Mal 2:7); in Christ, they are spirit messengers.  The Greek meaning for “angel” is “messenger”.  Angels are of heaven, they are spirit (Eph 2:6; Heb 12:22,23; Rom 8:9)  The anointed are “angel”/messengers. 

Col 1:12-14 – “giving thanks to the Father, who has enabled you to share in the saints' inheritance in the light. 13 He has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son he loves. 14 In him we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.” 

“Death is swallowed up in victory.
⁵⁵ Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?  1 Cor 15:55

John 6:63 - “The Spirit is the one who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.”

Does God’s Spirit ever – die - or remain unresponsive in the abyss?  We already know that Jesus was alive in spirit while in the abyss, preaching to demons. (1 Pet 3:18-20)

To reiterate, the anointed are “born again” (1 Pet 1:23), they are given spirit life, the spirit of God; and if they are found faithful – if they have not lost God’s spirit, which can happen (1 Cor 10:12; 2 Pet 3:17)  -  they will pass from physical death to their spirit life with Christ. They are the “new creation”, both flesh and spirit. Yet even so, they are alive in spirit while remaining in their physical body. 

There are many "144,000" kings reigning alongside of Christ in “heaven” now, who is the Head of the members of his “Body”. (Rev 14:1)  Each one of these also had to conquer darkness.  Would Jesus leave his members to wait in the grave, if they had conquered darkness and evil just as he had? 

“I have written to you, children, because you have known the Father. I have written to you, fathers, because you have known the One who is from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God resides in you, and you have conquered the evil one.” 1 John 2:14

 ^“You are from God, little children, and have conquered them, (“antichrist”)  because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. ⁵ They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world and the world listens to them.” 1 John 4:4

 

Psalm 110:1  “A declaration of YHVH to my lord,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies your footstool.”

Does this mean that Jesus was inactive as he sat at God’s right hand, waiting for God to put enemies at his feet?  Does this mean that it was in 1914 that all of Christ’s enemies finally became his “footstool”?  If so, who is he battling against in Armageddon?

“For it is necessary for him to reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.“  1 Cor 15:25

Christ and the Father are one. Christ said whatever he does, comes from the Father. Thus, they are both putting his enemies under his feet.

So Jesus answered and said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, the Son can do nothing from himself except what he sees the Father doing. For whatever that one does, these things also the Son does likewise.”  John 5:19

Psalm 110:2 - YHVH will send out your mighty scepter from Zion;
rule in the midst of your enemies.

He has been ruling since the first century, over his priests/kings.  His enemies are those anointed “kings” who align themselves with Satan. (1 Tim 6:15; Rev 1:5)   They speak lies about his reign. They speak lies about the reign of the anointed, which we see happening in the organization.  They are the accusers, just as Satan accused Jesus when he was on earth. (Rev 12:10)  The accusers were once “among” his faithful ones.   (1 John 2:19; Heb 12:15; Rev 8:10,11; 13:11,12)

Ps 110:3 - Your people will be free will offerings (“volunteers”)  in the day of your power.

Who are his people?  Wouldn’t they be God’s anointed ones – “Israel”?  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9

“In holy splendor, from the womb of the dawn,
you will have the dew of your youth.”

 

 Watchtower’s teaching of 1914 is evidence of suppression against Christ’s rule already established in the heavens in the first century - what it is for, and of the rule of his priests and kings with him; whether on the earth once sealed as faithful, or after their physical life has ended, and are raised to “heaven”.  Who would promote the lie that he did not reign until 1914?  It would be the ruler, “king” of this world, who is furious at losing his kingdom. (Rev 12:7-9)  It is already evident that the teaching of 1914 hangs on by a thread of lies to keep it alive. Even past leaders have questioned its authenticity.  Who would also promote the lie that Jesus’ faithful members of his Body are still awaiting a resurrection?  Doesn’t it seem that such lies would create a picture of Christ as powerless, as well as God’s anointed as powerless?

So, here’s the conundrum.  Gerrit Losch said that at the outbreak of Armageddon, the GB would be resurrected to heaven. Does their physical self, die, before this?  Do they spend any time in the “grave”?  He didn’t mention dying, only that the elders would take over for the GB and they would be ruling with Christ.

 Are they allowed spirit life immediately with Christ, while the apostles or any other faithful and sealed anointed over the last 2,000 years waits until the resurrection?  Do they believe the tombs will open once the GB  has ascended?

Can you see their push to be exalted, not humbled, before Jesus Christ judges them? (Matt 25:23,30)  This is the whole agenda of the WT, both the organization and its leadership (Rev 13:1,11); to take down the anointed in Christ, with lies, and it is accomplished by the use of DECEIT. (Rev 13:11,12,14; 20:10)

I didn’t see it while in the WT; no one can, unless they step aside and plead with God and Christ to know the truth - not allowing themselves to be encouraged by earthly desires in an earthly organization, that foster what they want to believe; and by leaning on their own understanding.  Prov 3:5-7

I’ve realize how important it is to start from scratch once leaving the organization.  Its leaders have changed, twisted, and made 360-degree turnarounds in their teachings over the years. I am appalled that I swallowed “fruit” that had no stability or lasting nourishment. (John 15:4)  It is like plugging into a feeding tube of lies.  Anything could be added to it, without one being aware of the consequences. (Deut 29:17-20)  To find any genuine “truth” that comes from the organization, takes work; and we on the outside, understand that.  Although, it is just how Satan wants it to be. (Col 2:18; Rev 13:10;16:13-16) Because it does takes work, it is far easier for the general JW, to accept what comes out of the mouths of the GB, any time, any day, than to do any independent scriptural research.   There is enough subtle fear tactics used, to prevent it. 

 

^“ But these people have hearts that draw back from God and wills that rebel against Him; they have revolted and quit His service and have gone away [into idolatry].

²⁴ Nor do they say in their hearts, Let us now reverently fear and worship the Lord our God, Who gives rain, both the autumn and the spring rain in its season, Who reserves and keeps for us the appointed weeks of the harvest.

²⁵ Your iniquities have turned these blessings away, and your sins have kept good [harvests] from you.

²⁶ For among My people are found wicked men; they watch like fowlers who lie in wait; they set a trap, they catch men.

²⁷ As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit and treachery; therefore they have become great and grown rich,

²⁸ They have grown fat and sleek. Yes, they surpass in deeds of wickedness; they do not judge and plead with justice the cause of the fatherless, that they may prosper, and they do not defend the rights of the needy.

²⁹ Shall I not punish them for these things? says the Lord. Shall I not avenge Myself on such a nation as this?

³⁰ An appalling and horrible thing [bringing desolation and destruction] has come to pass in the land:

³¹ The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests exercise rule at their own hands and by means of the prophets. And My people love to have it so! But what will you do when the end comes?”  Jer 5:23-31

 

“I then heard another voice from heaven saying,  Come out from her, my people, so that you may not share in her sins, neither participate in her plagues.

⁵ For her iniquities (her crimes and transgressions) are piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her wickedness and [her] crimes [and calls them up for settlement].

⁶ Repay to her what she herself has paid [to others] and double [her doom] in accordance with what she has done. Mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed [for others].

⁷ To the degree that she glorified herself and reveled in her wantonness [living deliciously and luxuriously], to that measure impose on her torment and anguish and tears and mourning. Since in her heart she boasts, I am not a widow; as a queen [on a throne] I sit, and I shall never see suffering or experience sorrow—

⁸ So shall her plagues (afflictions, calamities) come thick upon her in a single day, pestilence and anguish and sorrow and famine; and she shall be utterly consumed (burned up with fire), for mighty is the Lord God Who judges her.”  Rev 18:4-8

 

 

https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2020/07/crowns.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Witness]

7 hours ago, Witness said:

Who would promote the lie that he did not reign until 1914?  It would be the ruler, “king” of this world, who is furious at losing his kingdom. (Rev 12:7-9)

Those in what the WT calls, the “world”, recognize the repression of Jesus Christ in the organization; although they may not know exactly why. 

This man has found the quote that I had once read, and lost the source of.  It shows a total change from concentration on Jesus Christ and his sacrifice, to the “name” of God over the years in the organization.  Was this the goal of the apostles?  (take note @Arauna, what your organization has to say about Christ’s sacrifice quoted in the video)

After giving short quips of Gerrit Losch’s comments about who are the counterfeit Christians, the maker of the video asks;  “Am I the one who is trying to paint a picture that Jehovah’s Witnesses are slighting Jesus?  Or, is it a deliberate mission by Jehovah’s Witnesses?

 

“God’s Kingdom Rules”, ch4, pg 42, par 9:

“First, Jehovah’s servants came to have the proper view of the importance of God’s name. Faithful early Bible Students viewed the ransom arrangement as the Bible’s main teaching. That explains why the Watch Tower often focused on Jesus. For example, in its first year of publication, the magazine mentioned the name Jesus ten times more than the name Jehovah. Regarding the Bible Students’ early years, The Watchtower of March 15, 1976, noted that they gave “overbalanced importance” to Jesus. In time, though, Jehovah helped them to discern the prominence that the Bible gives to God’s personal name. How did that affect the Bible Students? Especially from 1919 onward, says the same Watchtower article, “they began showing more appreciation for Messiah’s heavenly Father, Jehovah.”

In fact, during the decade following 1919, The Watch Tower mentioned God’s name over 6,500 times!”

 

What an accomplishment!  Really?  The organization made sure, “Jehovah” was inserted in the New Testament; and at times, replacing where the reference to Jesus as “Lord” should have remained.  I repeat what I’ve said before, it is as if this hybrid name, “Jehovah” has become some sort of talisman for JWs. 

Was the apostle Paul, and all the apostles, guilty of giving an “overbalanced importance” to Jesus, by speaking about him as much as they did?  We are to support Christ’s truth, his teachings as the Word and “law” of God. (John 8:31; John 1:1)  This is what the apostles did, without hesitation, without fear!  Jesus said, we cannot come to know the Father without knowing the Son, first!

But, the entire mission behind the organization is to bypass the concentration on Christ and his teachings, which is documented above;  even though JWs may stress they follow his teachings. (Matt 7:21-23) 

"For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!"  2 Cor 11:4

This evil mission causes one to never begin to “know” Jesus Christ, and diverting that person from knowing the Father.  This is why people who leave the WT are found speaking about Christ!  They finally have the freedom to search him out.  

How is that done? How is the truth suppressed in the organization?  Number one, by installing a “wicked slave” who beats down Christ’s bodily members who are to speak truth from their hearts.  (Matt 24:48-51; 1 John 2:27)

Two - by telling them not to “bond” as a group; which means not to recognize their immediate Head as Jesus Christ, instead of 8 men who rule over them. Their union would become a spiritual threat to Satan’s “synagogue”.  (Rev 2:9-11) These men and their priesthood have so much power, that God's "Israel" refuse to speak, not only for God, but also for Jesus Christ and truth.

Three – replace them with a counterfeit priesthood, and trample down God’s Temple in Christ.  (1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:3,4)

“So they were saying to him, “Where is your father?” Jesus replied, “You know neither me nor my Father! If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.”  John 8:19

 

Can any JW say, they know Jesus Christ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I think there has to be a balance between our recognition of both God and Christ

I'm still not sure about Almighty God's true name. YHWH becoming JHVH ? 

God's name has serious meaning so surely changing those letters would change that meaning ? 

And yes, Bible translation is a dilemma. Which Bible to use. I do wish I understood Greek. 

Was no Bible translation inspired by God's Holy Spirit ?  

@Witness Some of your writing i agree with and some i feel is too strong in the opposite direction.  You write 'truth' from your perspective, as we all try to do. As for me I am more confused each day.

I will be 71 in October. Mentally and emotionally I'm ready to be put 'in the dust'.  Physically I'm tired. I've had enough of searching for 'truth', mainly because me mind can no longer hold information long enough to compare things properly. 

I don't know if the GB / CCJW are deliberately playing down Jesus' position. I do know that the GB has written words in the Watchtower to imply that the Anointed should not met together for prayer or Bible study, and that if they meet together they would be 'working against the Holy spirit'.  This would indicate that the GB are worried about the True Anointed having power as a united group. 

[Witness]

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I'm still not sure about Almighty God's true name. YHWH becoming JHVH ? 

Here is a quote from Wikipedia that might help: 

“Sometimes the four letters are called the Tetragrammaton, which is Greek for four letters

These four letters are usually JHWH in German, French and Dutch, and either YHWH, YHVH, JHWH or JHVH in English. In some English language Bibles, it is written in all capital letters as "LORD," as in Jewish tradition. Others, such as the Jerusalem Bible use "Yahweh". The Holman Christian Study Bible uses "Yahweh" when there is a reference to his name; God's Word Translation uses all of the Hebrew transliterations for the name of God."

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/YHWH

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And yes, Bible translation is a dilemma. Which Bible to use. I do wish I understood Greek. 

I have found this a simple site to use:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/ 

If you click on the specific scripture, it breaks down the Hebrew or the Greek, by giving you the option to click on a specific word. 

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I think there has to be a balance between our recognition of both God and Christ

Yes, the apostles, and I know all the faithful anointed since then, would take on a balanced view of God and Christ.  What the man in the video pointed out, was the imbalance shown by the GB in how they interpreted scripture.  They have come to have an “overbalanced importance” on “Jehovah”, causing Jesus Christ to be downplayed.

 

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I will be 71 in October. Mentally and emotionally I'm ready to be put 'in the dust'.  Physically I'm tired. I've had enough of searching for 'truth', mainly because me mind can no longer hold information long enough to compare things properly. 

I understand what you are saying.  I am also getting older, and finding it difficult to keep my thoughts in order.  What you are able to surmise about the situation of the anointed in the organization, is prophesy being fulfilled.  Daniel and Revelation speak of a Beast that “makes war” with the “saints”. (Rev 13:7)  Daniel says it is…

 “the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left.”  Dan 7:19  See: Luke 21:24; Rev 11:2

 It is out to destroy God’s spiritual people.   This war is not through the use of literal weapons as the WT will have us believe, and the primary target is not JWs, yet they are affected also. (Rev 9:3,4)  But, as Rev. points out, it is by the use of deceit – by lies, spoken by another symbolic “Beast”/false prophet that directs the “Gentile” Beast which blasphemes God’s sanctuary.  (Rev 13:6,11,12,14)

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Some of your writing i agree with and some i feel is too strong in the opposite direction.  You write 'truth' from your perspective, as we all try to do. As for me I am more confused each day.

Yes, I am very vocal about this as an anointed one.  As “Zion” rises with faithful anointed coming together as the “two witnesses” in Rev 11:3, the organization will become “level ground”. (Zion - Isa chapter 2)   These chosen witnesses (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9) address the very point you make, that the Temple of God, has been compromised – desolated - by the presence of “Gentiles”/elders,  “sitting”/ruling over it, over “Israel”, the “living stones”; which means truth in Christ has also been compromised. (Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2)

The Temple of God is built on Truth, with the apostles and Christ Jesus as its foundation.  (John 14:6; Eph 2:20-22; 1 Tim 3:15) Those who speak truth outside the organization, and those who speak lies under the false prophet in the organization and where the majority of anointed reside, are at spiritual “war” with one another.  We all must make our decision, we must choose our side. You are already doing that.   (Joel 3:14)   The majority of the anointed will remain in the organization.  Always during these times when God’s people have transgressed His covenant and withdraws his protection, the repentant remnant that is saved, is small.  (Amos 7:5; Matt 7:13,14; John 10:7-10)

I know you look for “true” anointed ones to build an organization blessed by God.  There will be no other earthly organization run as the WT is, in the world of Satan’s commerce and lies. All that the WT avails itself to, in order to make its organization thrive, are treasures of this world.   Jesus never accumulated goods, real estate, investments, and never admonished his followers to. (Matt 6:19,20) Whatever money the disciples carried, was given to the poor. (John 12:4-6)   The organization has transformed their material possessions into acceptable possessions belonging to Christ.  This is a lie that has led to idolatry.  They admonish that these possessions are what God expects us to support with our money, contrary to what Jesus Christ taught us about accumulating riches.  (Matt 19:21)

God’s true organization is spiritual; as you say, the Body of Christ, the Temple of God, is comprised of the anointed. (John 2:19-21) That is His “organization” and we will see its fruition with the last “stones” of the Temple sealed in placed, at Armageddon’s  finished.

These are “small beginnings” or “small things”,  where many have already found the “true” anointed ones in Christ, who speak truth from God’s Word.

 

Then the angel who talked with me returned and woke me up, like someone awakened from sleep. ² He asked me, ‘What do you see?’

I answered, ‘I see a solid gold lampstand with a bowl at the top and seven lamps on it, with seven channels to the lamps. ³ Also there are two olive trees by it, one on the right of the bowl and the other on its left.’

⁴ I asked the angel who talked with me, ‘What are these, my lord?’

⁵ He answered, ‘Do you not know what these are?’

‘No, my lord,’ I replied.

⁶ So he said to me, ‘This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: “Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,” says the Lord Almighty.

⁷ ‘What are you, mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of “God bless it! God bless it!”’

⁸ Then the word of the Lord came to me: ⁹ ‘The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this temple; his hands will also complete it. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you.

¹⁰ ‘Who dares despise the day of small things, since the seven eyes of the Lord that range throughout the earth will rejoice when they see the chosen capstone in the hand of Zerubbabel?’

¹¹ Then I asked the angel, ‘What are these two olive trees on the right and the left of the lampstand?’

¹² Again I asked him, ‘What are these two olive branches beside the two gold pipes that pour out golden oil?’

¹³ He replied, ‘Do you not know what these are?’

‘No, my lord,’ I said.

¹⁴ So he said, ‘These are the two who are anointed to serve the Lord of all the earth.’

 

“I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, ‘Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshippers. ² But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. ³ And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.’ ⁴ They are ‘the two olive trees’ and the two lampstands, and ‘they stand before the Lord of the earth.’”  Rev 11:1-4

 

 

 The Great Deception - https://pearl-anillustration.blogspot.com/