Prophecy & Signs, Truth & Conspiracy, Covid-19, the UN, Disgusting Thing, Truth and Conspiracies

[Witness]

Just curious, when is the GB going to declare that the great tribulation is in progress?  They keep holding off for some reason.  

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

But truth is that 2020 is not much different to any other year.

Historians of the future will be asked which quarter of 2020 did they specialize in.

Quarter 1: Pandemic appears out of nowhere and spreads throughout the globe within weeks. Society goes into lockdown. Stock markets plunge. Massive unemployment begins.

Quarter 2: People get fed up with lockdown. Churches defy them. College students and the young in general defy them. Police shootings prompt major protests in the streets. Renewed spikes in Covid 19 cases.

Quarter 3: Protests escalate to riots. Pro and anti Trump people fight each other in the streets. Some killings, Huge property damage. Record-setting fires burn throughout western states, destroying entire communities, the smoke dims Eastern skies. GOP and Democrats decline to help unemployed as they did initially, preferring to blame each other Instead for the suffering that ensues.

Quarter 4: The election. Never has been seen such incivility of opponents. Trump’s enemies proclaim he will not leave if he loses and will have to be dragged out of the White House. Hillary tells Democrats to, under no circumstances, concede a loss come Election Day. Social unrest intensifies. Only about one third of Americans say they will take a vaccine whenever one is produced. Serious talk of civil war is heard.

Just for starters.

1 hour ago, Anna said:

In my opinion, we have not seen the fallout of 2020 yet. I think we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg right now....

Nothing to see here, people. Move along, now. Why, from the days of our forefathers, all things continue exactly as from creation’s beginning.

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

TTH is, as ever, insulting me. He just cannot stop doing it.  I wonder why ?

You do?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

America this america that. Basically it is ONLY AMERICANS that are worried about what America is doing or suffering. 

TTH is still being his same old same old.  Playing that same old record about 2020. But it's all about politics and money. 

No one seems to mention Vietnam or Falklands wars and the protests and riots they caused. No one is mentioning all the 'natural disasters' EARTHWIDE. 

No, it's just about how America is right now. Poor Anna can't get any flour. And poor TTH just needs to be insulting as it makes him feel important, the way Americans need to feel.  

Now if you examine yourselves, you Americans, you might just see why a Body of Anointed Servants needs to be from all around this EARTH. The reason is because Americans love themselves too much and think they are important. Tom has shown that so clearly in his comment above. 

BUT, life goes on. Wars, protests, drugs, alcohol abuse, killings / murder, rape, CSA, dishonest politicians earthwide, et al. 

But it is no worse now, it's just that news travels around the earth faster. Which also means that fake news does the same. 

Stop worrying about the virus Tom. If it kills you, you get a resurrection.  And did it appear out of nowhere? Or was it man made to deliberately lower the Earth's population ? It matters not to me. 

You people seem to be in panic mode. What will you be like when the real testing comes ? . 

Or is it that you think you are safe in the Org and you want the doors shut NOW. 

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

25 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

It matters not to me. 

Don’t worry. Be happy! Turn that frown upside down!

In every life we have some trouble
But when you worry you make it double
Don't worry, be happy
Don't worry, be happy now

don't worry
(Ooh, ooh ooh ooh oo-ooh ooh oo-ooh) be happy
(Ooh, ooh ooh ooh oo-ooh ooh oo-ooh) don't worry, be happy
(Ooh, ooh ooh ooh oo-ooh ooh oo-ooh) don't worry
(Ooh, ooh ooh ooh oo-ooh ooh oo-ooh) be happy
(Ooh, ooh ooh ooh oo-ooh ooh oo-ooh) don't worry, be happy

Maybe that will be the next year text

[Arauna]

On 9/19/2020 at 12:42 AM, 4Jah2me said:

Body of Anointed Servants needs to be from all around this EARTH.

There is a German, Australian on GB and those who help them are from all over the earth.  So what is your beef?

[Arauna]

On 9/19/2020 at 12:42 AM, 4Jah2me said:

You people seem to be in panic mode

No - we are just glad that things are really heating up...... which means our faith has not been in vain. That is all. Yes we are uncertain but not without a ROCK to lean on.  Jehovah is our fortress, our crag. In him we trust.  The GB are cautious - more than ever before and rightly so.  

He will be in control of the final outcome.

[Arauna]

On 9/18/2020 at 4:22 AM, Anna said:

I think we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg right now....

Wait until next year..... when we come out of more lockdowns and  the Monetary system is reset.  The stocks at present  are artificially high....  but the food lines are getting longer. 

[JW Insider]

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

but the food lines are getting longer.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see how true Christians might end up distinguishing themselves by the extent to which we give actual food even to our enemies, motivated by our love for Jehovah and Jesus Christ, and our true admiration of a kingdom based on Biblical principles:

(Matthew 14:14-16) . . .When he came ashore, he saw a large crowd, and he felt pity for them, and he cured their sick ones. 15 But when evening fell, his disciples came to him and said: “The place is isolated and the hour is already late; send the crowds away, so that they may go into the villages and buy themselves food.” 16 However, Jesus said to them: “They do not have to leave; you give them something to eat.”

(Matthew 24:45) 45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

(Acts 2:43-47) . . .. 44 All those who became believers were together and had everything in common, 45 and they were selling their possessions and properties and distributing the proceeds to all, according to what each one needed. 46 And day after day they were in constant attendance in the temple with a united purpose, and they took their meals in different homes and shared their food with great rejoicing and sincerity of heart, 47 praising God and finding favor with all the people.. . .

(Acts 6:1-3) . . .Now in those days when the disciples were increasing, the Greek-speaking Jews began complaining against the Hebrew-speaking Jews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution. 2 So the Twelve called the multitude of the disciples together and said: “It is not right for us to leave the word of God to distribute food to tables. 3 So, brothers, select for yourselves seven reputable men from among you, full of spirit and wisdom, that we may appoint them over this necessary matter;

(James 2:14-17) . . .Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? 15 If any brothers or sisters are lacking clothing and enough food for the day, 16 yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it? 17 So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.

(Romans 12:20) 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; . . .

(1 Timothy 5:8) 8 Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.

Spiritual food and works are still more important in the long run, but I think that sometimes we read verses like Hebrews 10:24, and others, and forget that these referred to material giving:

(Hebrews 10:24) And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works.

(Galatians 6:10) . . .So, then, as long as we have the opportunity, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith.

(Acts 9:36-39) . . .“Dorʹcas.” She abounded in good deeds and gifts of mercy that she was making. . . .  and all the widows presented themselves to him, weeping and showing many garments and robes that Dorʹcas had made while she was with them.

(Titus 3:8) 8 These words are trustworthy, and I want you to keep stressing these matters, so that those who have believed God may keep their minds focused on maintaining fine works. These things are fine and beneficial to men.

(1 Timothy 2:10) 10 but in the way that is proper for women professing devotion to God, namely, through good works.

(1 Timothy 5:9, 10) 9 A widow is to be put on the list if she is not less than 60 years old, was the wife of one husband, 10 having a reputation for fine works, if she raised children, if she practiced hospitality, if she washed the feet of holy ones, if she assisted the afflicted, if she devoted herself to every good work.

(1 Timothy 6:17-19) . . .Instruct those who are rich in the present system of things not to be arrogant, and to place their hope, not on uncertain riches, but on God, who richly provides us with all the things we enjoy. 18 Tell them to work at good, to be rich in fine works, to be generous, ready to share, 19 safely treasuring up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, so that they may get a firm hold on the real life.

(Matthew 25:36-40) . . .’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@JW Insider  The GB do not want to give compensation to victims of CSA and do not want to apologise for it either.. So how can you expect the GB to want to feed the poor and needy. 

The GB / Leaders of CCJW would not even allow for minibuses to pick up older folk to take to meetings, even though they are closing Kingdom Halls and congregants have to travel further (pre-virus times). 

There are a couple of scriptures you've mentioned that refer to the 'Holy Ones' or 'brother's of Christ',  and those and other scriptures make it clear that people need to know exactly who the Anointed are.  But the GB say that people do not need to know who the Anointed are. 

As an individual a person, JW or not, could show Christian qualities by helping others (including those outside the Org), similar to the 'Good Samaritan', but as an Organisation I don't think it would meet with the approval of the GB. 

The thing is though, other 'Christian' organisations have been giving food and aid to the poor for many years. But they have been criticised for it, for being too humanitarian and not spiritual. 

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

There are a couple of scriptures you've mentioned that refer to the 'Holy Ones' or 'brother's of Christ',  and those and other scriptures make it clear that people need to know exactly who the Anointed are.

When the scriptures mention giving to the holy ones, the term actually refers to all fellow Christians. It's true that the expression could also have a special reference to the apostles and brothers in Jerusalem during Paul's day, but Paul used it more often to mean ALL Christians. It's the same as saying "you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus." And even though it has a special additional meaning to those who know they are chosen for a heavenly hope, it was also demanded of the pre-Christian Jews that they "must be holy as Jehovah is holy."

(Leviticus 11:45) . . .For I am Jehovah, who is leading you up out of the land of Egypt to prove myself God to you, and you must be holy, because I am holy.

So it is just as appropriate for those of the other sheep or great crowd who do not expect a heavenly hope.

(Romans 1:7) 7 to all those who are in Rome as God’s beloved ones, called to be holy ones:. . .

(Romans 12:13) . . .Share with the holy ones according to their needs. Follow the course of hospitality.

(Romans 16:1, 2) . . .I am introducing to you Phoeʹbe, our sister, who is a minister of the congregation that is in Cenʹchre·ae, 2 so that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the holy ones and give her whatever help she may need, . . .

(Romans 16:15, 16) . . .Greet Phi·lolʹo·gus and Julia, Neʹreus and his sister, and O·lymʹpas, and all the holy ones with them. 16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the congregations of the Christ greet you.

(1 Corinthians 1:2) . . .to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all those everywhere who are calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

(1 Corinthians 14:33) . . .As in all the congregations of the holy ones,

(2 Corinthians 1:1) . . .Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, and Timothy our brother, to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, including all the holy ones who are in all A·chaʹia:

(Ephesians 1:1) . . .Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to the holy ones who are in Ephʹe·sus and are faithful in union with Christ Jesus:

(Ephesians 1:15, 16) . . .That is why I also, since I have heard of the faith that you have in the Lord Jesus and the love that you demonstrate toward all the holy ones, 16 never stop giving thanks for you. . . .

(Ephesians 4:11-13) . . .And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, 12 with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ, 13 until we all attain to the oneness of the faith. . .

(Philippians 1:1) . . .Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus, to all the holy ones in union with Christ Jesus who are in Phi·lipʹpi, along with overseers and ministerial servants:

(Philippians 4:21, 22) . . .Give my greetings to every holy one in union with Christ Jesus. The brothers who are with me send you their greetings. 22 All the holy ones, but especially those of the household of Caesar, send you their greetings.

(Ephesians 1:4) . . .as he chose us to be in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and unblemished before him in love.

When the scriptures mention Christ's brothers, it is also referring to all fellow Christians:

(Matthew 23:8) . . .But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers.

(Matthew 5:45-48) . . .so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, . . .  47 And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing?

(Matthew 12:47-50) . . .So someone said to him: “Look! Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to you.” 48 In reply he said to the one who spoke to him: “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: “Look! My mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, that one is my brother and sister and mother.”

It is just as important for persons of the great crowd to consider themselves "sons of the Kingdom." We are all God's children, and therefore Christ's brothers.

(Acts 17:28, 29) . . . For by him we have life and move and exist, even as some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his children.’ 29 “Therefore, since we are the children of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, like something sculptured by the art and design of humans.

(Romans 8:12-15) . . .So, then, brothers, we are under obligation, not to the flesh to live according to the flesh; 13 for if you live according to the flesh, you are sure to die; but if you put the practices of the body to death by the spirit, you will live. 14 For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!”

According to Paul, we are either led by the flesh or led by God's spirit. This is why we pray to God as "Our Father, in heaven. . . "

(Galatians 3:26-29) . . .You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring, heirs with reference to a promise.

We are still heirs with reference to a promise, even if that promise is considered to be paradise on earth instead of heaven. We are either slaves or sons. The sons of the kingdom produce "fruits of the spirit" instead of "fruits of the flesh." Should we think that the following somehow doesn't apply to all Christians?

(Galatians 5:19-25) . . .Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, ²⁰ idolatry, spiritism, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects, ²¹ envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and things like these. I am forewarning you about these things, the same way I already warned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom. ²² On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, ²³ mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. ²⁴ Moreover, those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed to the stake the flesh together with its passions and desires. ²⁵ If we are living by spirit, let us also go on walking orderly by spirit.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@JW Insider  I totally disagree with you reasoning and beliefs here. 

My belief is that the Greek Scriptures were written for the True Anointed Ones. Many of the scriptures you have quoted would seem to back up my reasoning. 

(Ephesians 1:1) . . .Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to the holy ones who are in Ephʹe·sus and are faithful in union with Christ Jesus:

Only the True Anointed are in union with Christ Jesus. 

Quote : It is just as important for persons of the great crowd to consider themselves "sons of the Kingdom." We are all God's children, and therefore Christ's brothers. 

I think you are teaching a new teaching here, or in fact a teaching which comes from your GB, and it is a false teaching.  Only the True Anointed are Sons and Heirs of the Kingdom. But you, just like your GB seem to be minimising the importance of the True Anointed Ones. The GB and it's Org has a lot to answer for, be careful you are not dragged under with it.  

[JW Insider]

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I totally disagree with you reasoning and beliefs here. 

Yes. I know. We have been through this before.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I think you are teaching a new teaching here, or in fact a teaching which comes from your GB

It's not new. And I think that the GB would only agree up to a point. In general, the GB now teaches that many more of the verses and teachings in the Greek Scriptures that we once only applied to the Anointed can now have just as much meaning for the "other sheep." And although Galatians 5 starts out as a discussion about those led by the spirit, the GB also understand that the "fruits" of that spirit are for all of us to cultivate. But the GB would likely be very uncomfortable with a view that all of us are brothers (of Christ), and all of us should be led by the spirit. They would likely agree with the general point, but not the way I worded it.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

(Ephesians 1:1) . . .Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to the holy ones who are in Ephʹe·sus and are faithful in union with Christ Jesus:

Again, ALL Christians had to be in union with Christ.

(John 15:4-10) . . .Remain in union with me, and I will remain in union with you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you unless you remain in union with me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever remains in union with me and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nothing at all. 6 If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is thrown out like a branch and dries up. And men gather those branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you remain in union with me and my sayings remain in you, ask whatever you wish and it will take place for you. 8 My Father is glorified in this, that you keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples. 9 Just as the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; remain in my love. 10 If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love.

It includes a wide variety of ministries:

(Romans 12:3-8) . . .each one as God has given to him a measure of faith. 4 For just as we have in one body many members, but the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, although many, are one body in union with Christ, but individually we are members belonging to one another. 6 Since, then, we have gifts that differ according to the undeserved kindness given to us, if it is of prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7 or if it is a ministry, let us be at this ministry; or the one who teaches, let him be at his teaching; 8 or the one who encourages, let him give encouragement; the one who distributes, let him do it liberally; the one who presides, let him do it diligently; the one who shows mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

The sanctification is through the ransom, and the ransom is for all:

(1 Corinthians 1:28-30) . . .and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 so that no one might boast in the sight of God. 30 But it is due to him that you are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom,

All Christians are shown undeserved kindness, not because there are any who are so special that they deserve to be made holy, or sanctified. It's just that they are washed clean to have an undeserved, but acceptable "holy" standing before God so that we can approach Jehovah in prayer. No one is actually a special, righteous, anointed person who is a "TRUE anointed" who will be above their brothers as a kind of "leader" to follow.

(1 Corinthians 16:23, 24) 23 May the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus be with you. 24 May my love be with all of you in union with Christ Jesus.

(2 Corinthians 5:16-19) . . .So from now on we know no man from a fleshly viewpoint. Even if we once knew Christ according to the flesh, we certainly no longer know him in that way. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in union with Christ, he is a new creation; the old things passed away; look! new things have come into existence. 18 But all things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of the reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself, not counting their offenses against them, and he entrusted to us the message of the reconciliation.

Revelation says this about the "great crowd:"

(Revelation 7:9-17) . . .After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.” ...  And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them. 16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat, 17 because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”