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42 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

God is in control.  He knows when enough is enough. 

yes - he will for once and for all in human history prove that humans cannot rule the earth successfully! ... it will be beyond reasonable doubt.... because humans will bring the worst rulership ever on earth and use the height of human discovery to oppress fellow humans and perpetrate the worst atrocities against humankind.  It will stand forever as the worst kind of rulership ever!  

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Oh dear, as someone here would say. I don’t know whether it is worth your time or not but I do know I will miss you if you leave. As for me, I’ve tried to leave numerous times but the old hen always sings her siren song and lures me back: ”Oh mother, tell your children, not to throwww away their decorum, Spend your life in sheer misery on the old hen’s world media news forum.“  

*** w20 November pp. 14-15 Take Courage—Jehovah Is Your Helper *** HELP FROM INDIVIDUALS IN AUTHORITY ... 13 What help do we receive? When it is in harmony with his purpose, Jehovah may use his powerful holy spirit to cause people in authority to do what he desires. King Solomon wrote: “A king’s heart is like streams of water in Jehovah’s hand. He directs it wherever He pleases.” (Prov. 21:1) What does this proverb mean? Humans can dig a canal to divert the water of a stream in a direction

No. I never saw any evidence provided by the UN with respect to this man from Ethiopia. I never saw any evidence from you either. Just a claim with no evidence. Your assumption and judgment are both wrong in this case. Perhaps you have been watching for a longer time, and perhaps, as you say, you don't have the kind of time to watch. But I get the impression that your sources are not from watching the UN anyway, but they come from conspiratorial, racist, lying and/or biased sources

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9 hours ago, Arauna said:

The disgusting thing is related to being the god in the place of the true god. UN wants to bring peace and security which is the expressed will of Jehovah when he restores this earth under His government.

Disgusting thing: 

“Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.” Dan 11:31

“By smooth [words] he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action.”  Dan 11:32

“Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.”  Dan 11:36

Who are the gods?  They are God’s sons, under covenant.

“By his own choice, he gave us birth by the word of truth so that we would be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”  James 1:18

“because you have been born again -- not of perishable seed but of imperishable -- through the living and enduring word of God.”  1 Pet 1:23

“For he chose us in him, before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless in love before him.”  Eph 1:4

They are the anointed priests, and Temple “living stones”. (1 Pet 2:5,9) Someone is attacking them. Someone has magnified himself above God’s sons.

 “who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.” 2 Thess 2:4

He rules over the Temple members.

“When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where itdoes not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”   Mark 13:14

He is the disgusting thing standing in the holy place.

“I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.”  Rev 11:1,2

“Gentiles” have taken over God’s Temple.  Elders have full authority over the anointed members of God’s household.  Elders have defrocked God’s priests, and have become the abomination standing in the holy place – where they don’t belong.                      

1 Cor  3:16,17 –  “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.”

 

 

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So, this 'disgusting thing'.  Is it a 'false 'god' standing in the place of the True God ?

Or is it, a false 'god' standing in the place of the True Temple ?  The Temple are the True Anointed.

I like to use the expression True Anointed, to separate them from false anointed ones, ones that the GB say are mentally ill. 

 

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1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

So, this 'disgusting thing'.  Is it a 'false 'god' standing in the place of the True God ?

Or is it, a false 'god' standing in the place of the True Temple ?  The Temple are the True Anointed.

I like to use the expression True Anointed, to separate them from false anointed ones, ones that the GB say are mentally ill. 

 

I believe you are right on both accounts.  “Jehovah’s organization” stands in place of YHWH.  It is a mountain-like “rock” that defies our true and only, Rock.  The teaching of the Wt. proves that its organization is an idol, since “salvation” is only possible through adherence to the organization.  They attach the name “Jehovah” to it.

“To whom will you compare me?
    Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One.  Isa 40:25

“With whom will you compare me or count me equal?
    To whom will you liken me that we may be compared?” Isa 46:5

God has one spiritual “organization”; His Temple built on His Son. John 2:19-21   It is His “dwelling”, of Spirit.   It isn’t an earthly dwelling in the form of “wood and stone”. 

Revelation says,” I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.”  Rev 21:22   JWs relate to everything they “see”, whether it is WT’s Bethel Headquarters, Branch offices, kingdom halls.  All of these are supposedly “God’s House”, incorporated as “Jehovah’s organization”. 

The organization’s beating heart, is the Body of Elders.  They are said to be appointed by God’s Spirit.  They become the “gods” of the “spirit-directed” organization/idol.  God’s true Temple and dwelling of Spirit, are the anointed. (1 Cor 3:16,17)  They are the authentic “sons of God” – “gods”. 

2 Thess 2: 4 - He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

“sitteth in the Temple” – “to set, appoint, to confer a kingdom on one”

“that he is God”  

If you look again at Rev 21:22, where God and Jesus ARE the Temple, which is in SPIRIT; remembering that the faithful anointed “stones” are the “home” of God’s Spirit, then we can see that it is the “Gentile” elder body that has trampled/rules over, the dwelling of God.  The Bible says God is Spirit, which is why He can be said to be the Temple. (John 4:24)  The elder body has been appointed as sons of their god/idol – the organization.   The organization is proclaiming that it is God.

Isn’t this so true.  When anyone leaves the organization, it is taught that they have left “Jehovah”.  The organization touts it is the spiritual “home” of God.

 

Jesus said to his disciples,  “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.”  John 14:23

Eph 2:20-22 explains the true “home”/House of God. 

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A previous topic that had already gone on for about 40 pages was quickly turning into a place to discuss the many different things we see going on in 2020:

  • Covid19 lockdown and the expectations for the near future because of it.
  • Covid19 leading to food shortages, turned into a discussion about Christian food distribution (my fault)
  • that turned into a discussion of who are Christ's brothers.
  • and, as the usual end-times sub-topics:
    • the UN and various claims regarding the UN, some of which seem conspiratorial.
    • the "disgusting thing" (abomination of desolation)
    • etc.

Even after splitting off that discussion to a new "shorter" topic here, it's already 5 pages long, but that's still easier to navigate than 40 pages under the previous topic.

This new topic will end up moving some of the posts by: @Arauna@TrueTomHarley@Anna@Witness@4Jah2me

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On 9/25/2020 at 2:10 AM, Arauna said:

I quote agenda 2030:

I noticed that even with all that quoting from Agenda 2030, you found absolutely nothing that supported any of the conspiratorial fear-mongering that is so prevalent all over the Internet.

I'm glad you finally looked it over, however. In the past you said: "Just read the documents." So I did. I've learned not to give so much credence to propaganda and conspiracy theories. It reveals that there has been, not just a lot of conjecture, but a lot of outright lying from those who tried to make us believe that those conspiracies are actually to be found somewhere in the UN documents.

On 9/25/2020 at 2:10 AM, Arauna said:

The plan is to have this MOSTLY completed by 2030 AND THEN COMPLETELY BY 2050.

The UN's version of the 2030 agenda is here:

    Hello guest!
and it is a plan, basically from 2015, for countries that sign on, to set a good example over the next 15 years (from 2015) by resolving to eliminate poverty, and address many other types of injustice, along with pollution, climate issues, education, human rights, etc. They think they can manage to do good in all these areas by partnering with supportive governments, and other NGOs, and various other organizations which have also expressed optimism.

Of course, we know that in spite of all the good it wants to do, the UN has little to no power. The World Economic Forum site you mentioned points to sites that show some of the SDG's (sustainable development goals) are so far off track that they are not realistically expected before the 2070's.

I notice that you still see some of the goals as "bad" and some of the methods for trying to achieve them as "bad." I expect this old system in this old world to screw up almost any good goals and turn good into bad. But that is not the fault of the goals themselves. Many countries will set laws that say, for example: no more pouring of untreated sewage into a certain lake or river, or no more paying women less than men for the same job, or no more than 1 steer or 10 sheep per hectare of grazing land. But even if these laws are wonderful for people and the environment, there will always be people lobbying for a way to delay laws or make exceptions, because rising profits will always be more important in the short run, than good goals in the long run. And there's also ways that governments just get it all wrong. Look at the 20th century dust bowl days in the United States, or going after the wrong pests in China, or spraying carcinogenic pesticides everywhere. It's the way of the world.

I notice, of course, that although you could find nothing in the UN documents that was "bad" you added comments throughout to make certain things seem bad.

On 9/25/2020 at 2:10 AM, Arauna said:

SOUNDS LIKE THEY WANT TO BRING PEACE AND SECURITY !  SATANS VERSION OF JEHOVAH'S GOVERNMENT. See below where they talk of peace and security linked with sustainable development.

I should hope that an organization with the stated goal of promoting peace and security would "sound like they want to bring and security." The likelihood of overall success is practically nil, of course, but you think it's some sort of evil thing that they should want it? Why do you think peace and security is such a bad goal? You are supposed to be praying for governments to find ways to obtain peace and security. 

(1 Timothy 2:1, 2) . . .First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life. . .

Do you pray that those in high positions work for peace and security, so that at the very least we can continue to preach more freely, or even so that we can lead a peaceful life in this world?

 

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On 9/25/2020 at 2:10 AM, Arauna said:

A GOOD EXAMPLE IS THE LEADER OF WHO - HE GENOCIDED SOME OF HIS OWN PEOPLE AND YET RECEIVED A POSITION AT UN.

By the way, the evidence indicates that this is nothing more than an outrageous lie. I think we should be careful is not to slander people just because some propagandist or conspiracy theorist or even racists made some claims that were so easily debunked. The evidence was already presented under another topic. In the case of the leader of WHO, evidence showed that the slander was most likely both politically and racially motivated.

The fact that you included this without any evidence puts a cloud of suspicion over everything else you have claimed without evidence.

I hope everyone who reads your comments recognizes that the majority of what you included in that post were your own comments, not quotes from the UN documents. And your comments usually had nothing to do with the UN statements.

On 9/25/2020 at 2:10 AM, Arauna said:

CHILDREN ARE NOW LEARNING SEX EDUCATION (ENFORCED BY THE UN (UNESCO) THAT TEACHES THEM FROM AGE 4 TO TOUCH THEMSELVES AND TEACHES THE GROSSEST FORMS OF PORNEIA......  IF YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS GET YOURSELF EDUCATED ABOUT IT! 

Try to find a UN based source that shows that the UN (UNESCO) is enforcing sex education that teaches children from age 4 to touch themselves and teaches the grossest forms of porneia. Based on the above, i suspect you will have no success.

I went to the UNESCO site and found their guidelines. They are summarized here:

The

    Hello guest!
is designed to assist education policy makers in all countries design accurate and age-appropriate curricula for children and young people aged 5 – 18+.

Based on a review of the current status of sexuality education around the world and drawing on best practices in the various regions, the Guidance notably demonstrates that sexuality education:

  •  helps young people become more responsible in their attitude and behaviour regarding sexual and reproductive health

  • is essential to combat the school dropout of girls due to early or forced marriage, teenage pregnancy and sexual and reproductive health issues

  • is necessary because in some parts of the world, two out of three girls reported having no idea of what was happening to them when they began menstruating and pregnancy and childbirth complications are the second cause of death among 15 to 19-year olds

  • does not increase sexual activity, sexual risk-taking behaviour, or STI/HIV infection rates. It also presents evidence showing that abstinence-only programmes fail to prevent early sexual initiation, or reduce the frequency of sex and number of partners among the young.

 The only thing produced by UNESCO is guidelines to assist educational policymakers. It's 139 pages. It reads almost identically to the guidelines that have been in place for the US Dept of Ed for decades. There is no enforcement. You can look through the guidelines in the link above and the worst thing you might find in the Age 5-8 category. (There are "age-appropriate" differences in the guidelines for ages 5-8, 9-12, 12-15, and 15-18+.

For 5-8, here are the places where "touch" "touches" "touched" "touching" etc are mentioned. As a parent, I'd be concerned about which levels teach what, but I saw nothing in here that strikes me as dangerous. I learned about the gross forms of porneia at the Kingdom Hall and through Bible reading, even before my parents mentioned them, or I heard anything at school. But I think that publishing this set of guidelines and some expectation of consistency is good for parents to be able to mitigate "damage" where possible. But this is going to be true even of subjects that deal with history, religion, evolution, biology, etc., too.

Learning objectives (5-8 years)I

Key idea: There are healthy and unhealthy relationships

Learners will be able to:

list characteristics of healthy and unhealthy relationships (knowledge);

define good touch and bad touch (knowledge);

perceive that there are healthy and unhealthy friendships (attitudinal);

develop and maintain healthy friendships (skill

Learning objectives (5-8 years)

Key idea: Everyone has the right to decide who can touch their body, where, and in what way

Learners will be able to:

describe the meaning of ‘body rights’ (knowledge);

identify which parts of the body are private (knowledge);

recognize that everyone has ‘body rights’ (attitudinal);

demonstrate how to respond if someone is touching them in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable (e.g. say ‘no’, ‘go away’, and talk to a trusted adult) (skill);

identify and describe how they would talk to a parent/guardian or trusted adult if they are feeling uncomfortable about being touched (skill)

Learning objectives (5-8 years)

Key idea: People can show love for other people through touching and intimacy

Learners will be able to:

state that people show love and care for other people in different ways, including kissing, hugging, touching, and sometimes through sexual behaviours (knowledge).

Key idea: Children should understand what is and what is not appropriate touching

Learners will be able to:

define ‘good touch’ and ‘bad touch’ (knowledge);

recognize that there are some ways of touching children that are bad (attitudinal);

demonstrate what to do if someone is touching them in a bad way (skill).

Learning objectives (5-8 years)

Key idea: There are healthy and unhealthy relationships

Learners will be able to:

list characteristics of healthy and unhealthy relationships (knowledge);

define good touch and bad touch (knowledge);

perceive that there are healthy and unhealthy friendships (attitudinal);

develop and maintain healthy friendships (skill)

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11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You are supposed to be praying for governments to find ways to obtain peace and security.  (1 Timothy 2:1, 2) . . .First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life. . .

Well, I am not sure that I would go that far:

Rabbi, is there a prayer for the czar?”

”A prayer for the czar? Of course: May.........God.......bless.......the.........czar—and keep him far away from us!”

Just trying to scratch out a little tune, here, without breaking my back.

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On 9/29/2020 at 8:32 PM, JW Insider said:

evidence indicates that this is nothing more than an outrageous lie

Evidence provided by UN I suppose.......this is why I leave off talking to you: you have enough time to sit in front of your computer all day and look up articles written by PRO_UN sources and put it on these pages.  I do not have that kind of time BUT I have been watching the UN for a longer time than you have and believe me - you do not want to be under their rule! Their people are as corrupt as they can come.

So dominate these pages by quoting irrelevant data produced by the "right" people with the credentials YOU approve of.

I have more important things to do than arguing with people who have ONE skill only - that of looking up articles which confirm their bias....... like many of the scholars you quote.

I am in the process of moving countries and so may not be here on these pages again.  I think it not worth my time.... 

On 9/30/2020 at 5:38 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Well, I am not sure that I would go that far:

LOL - scripture relates to service to jehovah - so we can do it in peace.  That will be the day if I pray for trump or Biden!  

 

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On 9/29/2020 at 10:00 AM, JW Insider said:

You are supposed to be praying for governments to find ways to obtain peace and security. 

Seriously, would that not constitute a violation of neutrality, to be praying for the success of human schemes? It is enough not to be praying against them.

The little quip with the rabbi I threw in as a joke, but it is more than a joke. That’s how 1 Tim 2:1,2 should be understood, I think, that the governments come to understand our apolitical nature and thus leave us be to do our Bible education work.

As much as I am willing to acknowledge the nobility of many human intentions, it is the implementation that is always the problem, not the lofty goals in themselves, which may indeed be lofty. But the implementation falls short, due to Jer 10:23 about man being incapable of directing his own step.

On 9/29/2020 at 12:32 PM, JW Insider said:

define good touch and bad touch (knowledge);

What sticks in my craw about all these human goals is theIr assumption that it is head education (without mention moral sense) that is most needed.  I think back to that brouhaha with Annie O over her preferred CSA video—the one that drew circles around areas of a child that no one ought touch. It’s as though if a child is touched anywhere, he/she ought to consult the chart in his mind’s eye to decide if he should feel bad over it. Better the WT video that speak of a conscience—a conscience that will develop when ones are immersed and take to heart a godly atmosphere.

It was only icing on the cake when her pedantic video brimming with the wisdom of trusting education declared that it was okay if a doctor touched you in one of those hotspots. (whereas the Caleb and Sophia video said ‘let no one touch you inappropriately) “Ask the young women of the US Gymnastics team which video they think would have protected them more,” I said.

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Please NOTE, it is Tom that has brought up the subject of CSA once again. Off topic of course, but I'll comment on it anyway. 

TTH going on about moral sense as if the CCJW / GB has any.  Tom's on a cloud, in his own world. 

Tom, it has been and probably still is the Elders and Ministerial Servants that have been abusing children in the CCJW.

There has been enough proof from court cases and admissions of guilt around the world, to prove this point. Step down from your cloud and get into this real JW world.

Oh and are your GB still hiding that 20 + year database in the USA ? I do wonder why ?

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