Prophecy & Signs, Truth & Conspiracy, Covid-19, the UN, Disgusting Thing, Truth and Conspiracies

[TrueTomHarley]

29 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Tom, it has been and probably still is the Elders and Ministerial Servants that have been abusing children

(Sigh...there goes my fine resolve.)

It has not been, you idiot. Examples of that are scarcer then hen’s teeth.

In plenty of other outfits, it is the rule. In fact, there is no mechanism in those outfits to even to detect abuse within the rank and file.

29 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Please NOTE, it is Tom that has brought up the subject of CSA once again. Off topic of course, but I'll comment on it anyway. 

Please NOTE. Stay on topic, and do not pounce breathlessly on an example illustrating something else to bludgeon everyone once again with what you’ve said countless times already.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Still on your own personal cloud @TrueTomHarley I have put enough examples up on this site to prove my point over and over again. You can live your life in denial that is your choice, it probably eases your conscience.

JWI was talking about sex education from another viewpoint, but you had to drag up CSA whilst having a dig at someone else... And you probably do not realise how much you repeat yourself as well. Have a good weekend.
 

[JW Insider]

On 10/2/2020 at 5:29 AM, Arauna said:

Evidence provided by UN I suppose.

No. I never saw any evidence provided by the UN with respect to this man from Ethiopia. I never saw any evidence from you either. Just a claim with no evidence.

On 10/2/2020 at 5:29 AM, Arauna said:

you have enough time to sit in front of your computer all day and look up articles written by PRO_UN sources and put it on these pages.

Your assumption and judgment are both wrong in this case.

On 10/2/2020 at 5:29 AM, Arauna said:

I do not have that kind of time BUT I have been watching the UN for a longer time than you have and believe me

Perhaps you have been watching for a longer time, and perhaps, as you say, you don't have the kind of time to watch. But I get the impression that your sources are not from watching the UN anyway, but they come from conspiratorial, racist, lying and/or biased sources. I like to look at the viability of as many sources as I can, and I agree that this can be very time consuming. And I also don't think people should merely repeat slanderous accusations without taking some time to research these claims first.

On 10/2/2020 at 5:29 AM, Arauna said:

So dominate these pages by quoting irrelevant data produced by the "right" people with the credentials YOU approve of.

It's easy to claim things you don't agree with are simply "irrelevant." If you have evidence, point to it. Show it. Give a link to the person who claimed that the WHO president genocided his own people, for example. I think there is none. But there is quite a bit of evidence that this was a lie from racist and politically motivated sources. I go where the evidence takes me, and it's not my fault when evidence for one way or another seems to "dominate."

On 10/2/2020 at 5:29 AM, Arauna said:

I have more important things to do than arguing with people who have ONE skill only - that of looking up articles which confirm their bias....... like many of the scholars you quote.

We all have more important things to do. But I don't have anything against providing evidence. Evidence can come from scholars on all sides of a controversy. We can listen to all of them. And evidence doesn't have to come from just scholars and experts, either. An average person like me can take a video of something and it provides good evidence, too. An average person can track down an expert's contradictory statements, or admissions of making false statements, and this can provide evidence, too. (I just found an amazing admission of false statements by someone this morning and I'll make a post about it when I get time.)

On 10/2/2020 at 5:29 AM, Arauna said:

I am in the process of moving countries and so may not be here on these pages again.  I think it not worth my time....

I've given up on this forum a couple of times. But it's the only forum I use. I have a FB account I haven't written on in 4 years, and I have a Twitter account to read news, but I never write anything there. Also, this is a diverse group willing to talk about a lot of different subjects. I don't think any of us know many people at our Hall that would be comfortable with a lot of these topics. So I typically tend to come back after a few days.

I hope your move goes well, and I hope to see you on these pages again.

[JW Insider]

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Seriously, would that not constitute a violation of neutrality, to be praying for the success of human schemes? It is enough not to be praying against them.

I don't think the scripture meant that we need to pray out any particular persons or schemes, only that the men in high positions who make decisions that might affect us, and our preaching work, will make decisions that result in the kind of peace and security that have a net positive effect.

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

That’s how 1 Tim 2:1,2 should be understood, I think, that the governments come to understand our apolitical nature and thus leave us be to do our Bible education work.

There's something to that, I agree. We get the necessary peace when they stay out of our way. But the verse can mean a range of things to different persons in different circumstances. Some get more specific in their prayers than others. I think we could even pray that someone comes up with a vaccine for Covid19. Some would say no, because that's like praying for a worldly medical institution.

[TrueTomHarley]

14 hours ago, Arauna said:

I am in the process of moving countries and so may not be here on these pages again.  I think it not worth my time...

Oh dear, as someone here would say. I don’t know whether it is worth your time or not but I do know I will miss you if you leave.

As for me, I’ve tried to leave numerous times but the old hen always sings her siren song and lures me back:

”Oh mother, tell your children, not to throwww away their decorum,

Spend your life in sheer misery on the old hen’s world media news forum.“

 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

only that the men in high positions who make decisions that might affect us,

Well, they did build good roads, those Romans did, and that is said to have aided the spread of Christianity. 

Recently archeologists have unearthed inscriptions of the songs they sang while laying roads down over that untamed earth:

Well, I'm a steamroller, baby
I'm bound to roll all over you
Yes, I'm a steamroller, baby
I'm bound to roll all over you

I'm gonna inject your soul with some sweet rock 'n roll
And shoot you full of rhythm and blues
Well, I'm a cement mixer
A churning urn of burning funk
Yes, I'm a cement mixer for you, baby
A churning urn of burning funk

Well, I'm a demolition derby
A hefty hunk of steaming junk
Now, I'm a Napalm bomb, baby
Just guaranteed to blow your mind

[Thinking]

On 9/11/2020 at 12:17 AM, Arauna said:

 Our congregation is fine too but there are individuals who have lost their jobs and have some depression. Others have to live with unbelievers and the houses are very crowded here in Rep of Georgia. Across the world suicides are sky-rocketing and child abuse, families are in each others hair all the time.

Knowing what I know and with the heavy lock-down here I was feeling it too about 2 months ago as I am a very tactile person and need people around me.  But I have adjusted and thanks to Jehovah I feel upbeat.  Uncertainty is a terrible master and the younger you are the more it affects one. One of our brothers here started pioneering..... really innovative ways to preach.

Even if the end drags on - panting to the end - and we face ridicule for waiting for it......  the downward spiral has started .... of this I am certain.  The economic analyzers are going bonkers....... nothing makes sense except for those who understand the "reset" and they want to use some gold again to back the new monetary system ........ but when they turn against religion all of them will be crying and their gold will not mean much.  

At present time they (technocrats) are very confident everything is working out the way they want it - no matter how many people may suffer. They are working behind the scenes on the logarithms and strengthening people's bias' on the internet. People are becoming more and more radicalized. I have also slacked in my contributions and was thinking about it today.... so I better do the right thing.

We are refugees as well.  I am busy packing so that we can leave here as soon as the borders open up.  Corona has caused problems for this government and they are set to change the requirements to live here.  So we are leaving soon.... we will watch for the right time to leave. It is great here - we do not want to leave but we need more security. We are going closer to Italy..... in the Balkans.  Will give my new location when my husband and I are both safe.  We were planning to face death or Armageddon here in Rep Georgia but now we will go die in another place or (if Jah wills) face Armageddon there. 

 

I hope things work out for you both..and wherever you go I know Jehovah will be with you 

[Srecko Sostar]

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Seriously, would that not constitute a violation of neutrality, to be praying for the success of human schemes? It is enough not to be praying against them.

What sort of "neutrality"? "Neutrality concept" made by WT understanding?

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What sticks in my craw about all these human goals is theIr assumption that it is head education (without mention moral sense) that is most needed. 

"My people will be silenced,(*destroyed) because there is no knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge," - Hosea 4:6

May we say how lack of education in "knowledge" about secular and spiritual things is good way to be ruined? 

Lack of knowledge about, what is and what is not "neutrality", is good example of this.

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I don't think the scripture meant that we need to pray out any particular persons or schemes, only that the men in high positions who make decisions that might affect us, and our preaching work, will make decisions that result in the kind of peace and security that have a net positive effect.

JW members made prayers to God about... and letters, to Russian's "secular authorities".  I don't know what was content of their prayers. And don't know what was content of those letters. Perhaps somebody who have time and information would/will make comparison and comment about it.

Of course, if prophecies (i.e. interpretations) are correct about that, that JW members are and will be under attack of secular governments (in this case Russia) in the "last days of last days" than what is purpose and benefit of "prayers" for JW members and for attackers in high position?

What if "prophecy" is more powerful than "prayers"? Than JW "prayers" means nothing. They will not be "listened". 

And vice versa, if "prayers" of faithful JW members can delete (or delay) fulfillment of "prophecy" about "last days" and attacks on them, than when "end" will come?

In third scenario, two parallel "kingdoms" can live together and forever. Everybody looks for their own business. :))

[JW Insider]

*** w20 November pp. 14-15 Take Courage—Jehovah Is Your Helper ***
HELP FROM INDIVIDUALS IN AUTHORITY
...
13 What help do we receive? When it is in harmony with his purpose, Jehovah may use his powerful holy spirit to cause people in authority to do what he desires. King Solomon wrote: “A king’s heart is like streams of water in Jehovah’s hand. He directs it wherever He pleases.” (Prov. 21:1) What does this proverb mean? Humans can dig a canal to divert the water of a stream in a direction that fits their plans. Similarly, Jehovah can use his spirit to divert the thoughts of rulers in a direction that is in harmony with his purpose. When that occurs, people in authority feel motivated to make decisions that benefit God’s people.—Compare Ezra 7:21, 25, 26.
14 What can we do? We can pray “concerning kings and all those who are in positions of authority” when these individuals are called on to make decisions that affect our Christian life and ministry. (1 Tim. 2:1, 2, ftn.; Neh. 1:11)

I notice that the Watchtower also includes this within the idea of paying back Caesar's things to Caesar, and even the idea of "being ready for every good work" is subsumed under the idea of performing "government" sponsored works:

*** w90 11/1 pp. 11-12 pars. 7-8 The Christian’s View of the Superior Authorities ***
7 Further, Paul’s exhortation to be in subjection to the superior authorities is in harmony with Jesus’ command to pay back “Caesar’s things to Caesar,” where “Caesar” represents secular authority. (Matthew 22:21) It also agrees with Paul’s later words to Titus: “Continue reminding them to be in subjection and be obedient to governments and authorities as rulers, to be ready for every good work.” (Titus 3:1) Hence, when Christians are ordered by governments to share in community works, they quite properly comply as long as those works do not amount to a compromising substitute for some unscriptural service or otherwise violate Scriptural principles, such as that found at Isaiah 2:4.
8 Peter also affirmed that we should be subject to the secular authorities of this world when he said: “For the Lord’s sake subject yourselves to every human creation: whether to a king as being superior or to governors as being sent by him to inflict punishment on evildoers but to praise doers of good.” (1 Peter 2:13, 14) In harmony with this, Christians would also heed Paul’s admonition to Timothy: “I therefore exhort, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, offerings of thanks, be made concerning all sorts of men, concerning kings and all those who are in high station; in order that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life.”—1 Timothy 2:1, 2.

Srecko brought up a point about how neutrality might be equated with lack of knowledge, but it is clear that knowledge would be necessary to distinguish whether those community works requested by authorities are not some form of compromise. 

It's easy to imagine a group of Witnesses who are told by government authorities that they must clean up a polluted lake or waterway before undertaking some large building projects on its shores, or that they must clean up the toxins that can carry runoff into the water to protect animals depending on it. In spite of the recent article about neutrality, when such situation occurred, Witness lawyers (and others) actually lobbied the relevant government authorities for favorable rulings. Lawsuits were initiated by the WTS to overcome the costs of some of these decisions. I know that brothers were called in to gain a lot of knowledge about the situation before some of these actions were taken. But I also talked personally with one of the lawyers involved and it was my assessment that the spirit of Jesus' words here were not taken to heart:

(Matthew 5:40-46) . . .And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment; 41 and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42 ... 43 “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing?

In the future, if WItnesses are told to build buildings that meet certain "green standards" to meet certain SDG's (Sustainable Development Goals) do you think that some Witnesses might rightly lobby against it, because these SDG's were suggested to governmental authorities by the UN, who only promoted them because they were a way of promoting "peace and security"? And we all know that when we support anything that combines "UN" with "peace and security" we are supporting Satan's schemes?

A little bit of knowledge won't hurt us. We should not be ignorant of Satan's designs either:

*** nwtsty 2 Corinthians Study Notes—Chapter 2 ***
we are not ignorant of his designs: Paul does not just say that “we are aware of his designs.” Rather, he uses a figure of speech called litotes, that is, an understatement made in order to give emphasis by saying that the opposite is not true. (An example of litotes can be found at Ac 21:39, where Tarsus is called “no obscure city,” which means an important city.) Accordingly, some translations render this phrase “we are well aware of his schemes” or “we know his wiles all too well,” which conveys similar emphasis.

This is a double-edged argument. Arauna is correct therefore to look to whether any of these "community works" are actually compromising. She correctly said she would have to "go along" with some of them even if she hated where they were coming from. But since we all stand individually before the judgment seat, we should all have a reason for the stand we take.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

spirit of Jesus' words here were not taken to heart

What a spirit guided this JW elder, Shawn Bartlett, who gave instruction and instruction to other elders as to why personal notes and other data should be destroyed. Why? According to what he said it is in this "spirit" --------- To Not be responsible for past actions. If there are no records of past events, then the events did not even happen, "legal world says" he explained.  ..... be as shrewd as snakes ??

 

[Anna]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

and it was my assessment that the spirit of Jesus' words here were not taken to heart:

(Matthew 5:40-46) . .

and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

In spite of the recent article about neutrality, when such situation occurred, Witness lawyers (and others) actually lobbied the relevant government

 

I think we need to be reasonable though. I know there was all kinds of trouble surrounding the initial project, and I don't know a lot about it, but my impression was that since it wasn't our fault (we had not caused the pollution) it would be fair to expect that we should not have to be responsible for financing the clean up....

I think in these and similar instances if we take advantage of any secular means or provisions that help us achieve our goal, we are only doing what some of Jesus's disciples in the first century did also.

[Anna]

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

In the future, if WItnesses are told to build buildings that meet certain "green standards" to meet certain SDG's (Sustainable Development Goals) do you think that some Witnesses might rightly lobby against it.......when we support anything that combines "UN" with "peace and security" we are supporting Satan's schemes?

Does anybody think that way?  We know not everything the UN does is evil. Not everything the Governments do is evil either, as Paul brings out; "Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it;  for it is God’s minister to you for your good". Wanting to do things "green" is a good thing, so there should be no reason for a Witness to lobby against that..