"PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK JEHOVAH", FOR USDA FOOD BOXES

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@César Chávez  I want to examine this paragraph of your :

Here itself, it can be seen as those that think the Watchtower plays a role in every person, personal life. They don't. Jesus didn't, the apostles didn't, those sent by Jesus didn't. The "act" of the apostles just like Jesus commandments were to make a spiritual guideline in order for each individual to cleanse themselves from their old ways and return to God with a clean and fresh attitude that would lead to their own personal salvation. That is in essence what the Watchtower is about. The key word here is "choice", it hasn't changed since Jesus made it known.

Well it does in the lives of JWs. How? Because JWs believe what the GB tell them to believe, and the GB's method of communication to the congregants is the Watchtower. So the Watchtower, which is studied every week, does play a very big role in every JWs life.  The GB tells the congregants that 'only the GB', are the F&DS. The GB tells congregants that the rest of the Anointed should not congregate together, the GB saying that if the Anointed did congregate together it would be working against the Holy spirit. These messages are sent via the Watchtower magazine, so they do play a big role in congregants lives. 

So the big difference. Jesus and the Apostles didn't 'control' people's lives. The GB should think about this.

Spiritual guidelines. Yes. And for their own personal salvation, yes.  Not salvation by the CCJW organisation. Not baptism into the CCJW organisation. 

"That is in essence what the Watchtower is about."  NO it isn't.  The Watchtower is one means of control that the Governing Body uses. The only choice is to be in or our of the CCJW. But if in, a person has to obey GB man made rules. 

I still cannot understand why you use the word Watchtower as if it is people. It isn't. It is a business side of the religion and it is a magazine. It is the Governing Body that controls that business and magazine. 

So maybe you should "Reflect on your own words."        And you also, Have a good day.  

[TrueTomHarley]

16 hours ago, César Chávez said:

This is a good example of some within the Org going rogue.

Alas, Cesar, sometimes I feel that I am becoming one of them.

I told the elders that I would not get into squabbles with these characters, and I said that so as not to be oblivious to theocratic counsel. Yet here I find myself making sporadic ad hominem attacks. Of course, I don’t beat myself up too much over it—If these characters worked on their ad hominems a bit more, it wouldn’t happen. And it is also true that in the absence of theocratic counsel, I would be much worse. But even so, I am allowing personal exasperation to throw barbs here and there after I said I would not do it.

The long response was okay to this thread, of course, because that constitutes as though a letter to the editor. Maybe even the first retort to you-know-who can be overlooked since she is so much the way she is. But the third one was unnecessary and just reflects personal lack of self-control.

“I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me....I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body.  Miserable man that I am!” (Romans 7)

I have to behave better. I said that I would:

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2020/01/a-bad-boy-turns-over-a-new-leaf.html

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quoted from TTH : Outside of Jehovah’s Witnesses, few even know what anointed is.

This is actually an interesting point, but how would he know this ? How many people of different religious beliefs has he questioned about it ? 

I'm sure there have been discussions about those serving God properly between the time of the original anointed ones / disciples /Apostles, and the time of the Bible Students. 

Those people that 'kept the Bible alive' during that time, and even people that keep the Bible alive now.

And it seems that Russell and co didn't get much right at all and Rutherford wasn't any better. And the leaders of the CCJW through the ages haven't really shown much spiritual advancement have they ? The GB being the worst so far it seems. 

So there could be a lot of Anointed ones all around this Earth that the GB and JWs no nothing about, as it seems that JWs only believe those inside the CCJW. 

The more I read on here, the more I realise how much JWs depend on the GB / Watchtower / CCJW for everything relating to Almighty God. It's unfortunate that those sources are so unreliable at this time. 

 

[Witness]

On 9/30/2020 at 9:51 AM, Witness said:

According to USDA guidelines, distributors paid by the government to assemble the boxes were supposed to guarantee they would be given to “only needy people.” 

Am I reading that the elders were not volunteering their time to distribute the food boxes, but were paid?   The question is, were they then directed to give the pay received, to the organization?

 

[Anna]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I have to behave better. I said that I would:

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2020/01/a-bad-boy-turns-over-a-new-leaf.html

Judging by the few comments in response there are ones who understand where you are coming from and are even grateful for ones like you, as one of them said: "My study conductor was always unsure about the what to say to the questions I'd bring. So I began looking for jehovah's witnesses that were/are responding and thankfully I found a good few, including yourself ....... and to be honest I'm not 100% certain that I would have continued if I hadn't been able to get answers to questions and honest perspectives on being a Witness".

In my opinion honesty is the key. Are we willing to admit mistakes and not try to justify or gloss over them? Why would we even want to justify mistakes? Wouldn't it be like saying we do not sin?  "If we make the statement, “We have no sin,” we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10  If we make the statement, “We have not sinned,” we are making him a liar, and his word is not in us". 1 John 1:8-10

For there is no righteous man on earth who always does good and never sins.  (Ecclesiastes 7:20)

So what's the problem, really? In fact the sooner one understands that, the less chance there is of being stumbled or shocked and leaving.

[TrueTomHarley]

4 minutes ago, Witness said:

Am I reading that the elders were not volunteering their time to distribute the food boxes, but were paid?  

You probably are reading it and 4Jah is writing it. Off course they’re not paid.

[Anna]

4 minutes ago, Witness said:

distribute the food boxes, but were paid? 

Only those who actually assembled the boxes and distributed them to schools/churches etc. were paid. Not those who distributed the boxes from those establishment to households. So no, elders were not paid.

[Anna]

@TrueTomHarleyby the way why did you close the commenting to that entry?

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

So what's the problem, really?

The problem is that I told the elders I wouldn’t do it. But because I believe the second part of your statement: 

1 hour ago, Anna said:

In fact the sooner one understands that, the less chance there is of being stumbled or shocked and leaving.

I don’t beat myself up when I break my resolve. And I very much appreciate your kind words on the value of meeting specific accusations. From time to time I get emails stating the same.

When the elders met with me after the meeting, I had no thought at all of putting the experience online, as I have done above. That occurred to me later. 

I just came to think I’d let it stand as a real time example of responding to counsel even if I don’t agree with every aspect of it. The only examples of meeting with the elders that ever appear online are those written by unruly persons already on the edge, like Dathan and those guys, who rail at the attempt at “mind control” and cry ad nauseum over their right to free speech, missing every spiritual point in the process of making theIr dominant fleshy one: “No one’s telling me what to do!”

I don’t resent the counsel at all. I take it for just what it is—loving oversight.  I both accept and appreciate that Jehovah leads his people via a human agency, and I am grateful that there is something that corresponds to verses such as Hebrews 13:17, to “be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account, so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you.”

As such, I accept they have the responsibility to counsel in line with scripture, and I don’t carry on as though my toes are being stepped on or my rights infringed upon. They represent the human link in the divine/human interface, they do not demand lockstep even though they give pointed counsel. I don’t consider myself above them. They are above me as regards authority.

I appreciate their efforts to check me, and as stated, I would be far worse in the absence of godly counsel to not engage with those who show by word or deed that acquiescence to Jehovah’s standards and all that is entailed is repugnant to them. It does me good to be checked by them, for I do believe that we become who we hang out with. We may not become it instantly, but we do so eventually—if not in point of argument then in forfeiting the Christlike manner—and often even in point of argument, as they are all based on following the trends of the day.

I would like it if there was a little more organizational pushback on some of the charges leveled against us. I’ve said it many times before. But you can’t always get what you want. You can’t always get what you want. You can’t always get what you want. But if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need. 

And I have. I can’t go charging like an enraged bull. But that kind of conduct can get a guy skewered anyway. It does me well to do what I do under the discipline of conforming to theocratic counsel, even if in a few aspects I am not a stellar example of it. I am in other aspects.

[TrueTomHarley]

27 minutes ago, Anna said:

@TrueTomHarleyby the way why did you close the commenting to that entry?

They all close after two weeks. Partly it’s a concession to the old hen, who was concerned about my “spamming“ and so I assured her I would take hardly any comments and only for a short time—I’m not trying to lure from her site, which is a valid concern of every webmaster.

And then, too, I just don’t have the time to respond to everything. And while I don’t ban malcontents entirely, I keep a pretty tight rein on them—and that too takes time I don’t have.

[Anna]

37 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I would like it if there was a little more organizational pushback on some of the charges leveled against us.

I understand why they don't if pushback is to be understood as a defense in order to sway the "enemy" to your side. They know they will never convince the "enemy" so what's the point in trying? BUT if it was done for the benefit of those who are not "enemies" but genuinely want explanations and answers to those charges, then I think it would be a good thing. But they're not looking at it like that.....

[Witness]

9 hours ago, Anna said:

Only those who actually assembled the boxes and distributed them to schools/churches etc. were paid. Not those who distributed the boxes from those establishment to households. So no, elders were not paid.

I understand this better than previously, when Tom first brought it up on this forum a few months ago.    The organization did have to sign up to be a 503c distributor, but after speaking to Travel Well Holdings– a wholesale purchaser and distributor (whose name I saw on this video -

 I found that they, along with many other contract distributors, were awarded a Federal USDA contract to distribute the food boxes, as is generally known.  When the food banks became glutted with boxes, it was the food banks who reached out to faith-based organizations, to take part in the program. 

The video has the same message as the news article.  They were told not to spread the news, including photographing the boxes. The speaker relates that they tried to decline the box saying they were not in need, but it was delivered anyway. Many other “faith-based” organizations, would specify which families would indeed benefit from the food, instead of elders throwing it away if rejected…stories coming out by others.  Many other religious organizations, follow more closely the understood definition of “charity”, while the org. appears to be clueless.   I was told that stricter guidelines were issued by the USDA in August, requiring a contract to be signed by the organizations, stating food boxes must, and will be distributed only to those who are “food insecure” and are lower income households.    

 

 

Interesting news article:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/09/03/907128481/how-the-usdas-food-box-initiative-overpaid-and-under-delivered