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JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?


Witness

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@Space Merchant  @TrueTomHarley

Um, it has been proven over and over and over again that leaders of the CCJW (or what ever name it used in the past) had deliberately made false predictions, pretending they had some 'special knowledge'. 

Tom always tries to brush it off by using his sick humour, but bad try Tom. 

@Srecko Sostar has written a topic about the Org and Armageddon predictions for 1941. 

Maybe have a read of it you guys.  You will note that the Leaders of the Org were saying that Armageddon was 'very near' in 1941. 

Then in the 1960's the Leaders of the Org again said Armageddon is very near. In fact one Watchtower in 1967 said 'we are in the last part of the last day'.......... 

Now the GB of the Org are once again saying 'we are in the last part of the last day' 

(It seems that Russell and Rutherford had their own expectations too. Something about prophets returning to Earth. Armageddon coming in 1914. et al.  But my mind doesn't bother to keep this stuff as it's not important to me)  

But Tom really shows himself to lack spirituality or humility in these things. I quote him 

Everyone gets one failed end-date call within a lifetime. It’s in the rules. It’s a sign of staying alert. Jump the gun in the race and do they shoot you with it? No. It’s not a big deal. They just start the race over.

That is a very sad comment and shows complete lack of wanting to serve God properly. 

Your GB PRETEND to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave class, but you have just proven by your comment Tom, that your GB are just men that 'jump the gun', that do not wait on God, and, that say 'The master is delaying'. 

The CCJW and the Org under previous names have had many failed predictions. The GB and it's Org prove themselves to be false prophets. 

Whether SM or TTH or anyone else wants to believe in the 1975 thing, is up to them. Whether the 'Stay alive till 75' thing mattered or not to anyone I don't know. However we do know that brothers and sisters sold their houses and moved into their converted garages, or into small flats, so that they could full time pioneer / preach the coming 'end of the world'.  But most of those people are probably dead now, they were the older ones that believed everything the Leaders told them.  

The funny thing is it would seem that many JWs now, do not believe the things they are taught by the GB. Physically in, spiritually out it seems. Playing both sides of the game. Having seen so many false teachings many JWs just go through the motions of being a JW whilst doing their own study and research. 

And that is why the GB have told the Anointed NOT to gather together, because the GB are getting frightened as they are losing power and money.

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I agree. But where did they get the date from? Those who were serving with a date in mind didn't just pull the date out of thin air did they?

My first ever meme to call my own. I figured if I could make one here, I can make one anywhere!

The Governing Body never ever said that 1975 was the end of this world, All that is written in the publications  is that it was 6,000 years since Adam`s creation, and people read that as a sign in the

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23 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Tom always tries to brush it off by using his sick humour, but bad try Tom. 

Not only did I try. I did. Not only was it not “sick.” It was apropos. It’s called getting the overall picture and not just zeroing in on what you want to see.

24 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Now the GB of the Org are once again saying 'we are in the last part of the last day' 

You were saying it yourself not five posts ago. You can and they can’t? Hold out for the last of the last of the last of the last days if you like. You’re welcome to try.

And what of this diatribe of yours that the ‘true anointed’ is to manifest itself (out of nowhere) in but a few years max? Is that not you asserting we are in the last of the last?

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12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Everyone gets one failed end-date call within a lifetime. It’s in the rules. It’s a sign of staying alert.

Yes. It's natural for every generation to want to live to see all the good promises fulfilled in their lifetime. With the right attitude, this should not be a disturbing thing to anyone, at best. At worst, it is a disappointment when it doesn't happen and can make you downhearted temporarily. With the wrong attitude it can make people angry and throw out the baby with the bath water.

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13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Everyone gets one failed end-date call within a lifetime. It’s in the rules. It’s a sign of staying alert. Jump the gun in the race and do they shoot you with it? No. It’s not a big deal. They just start the race over.

 

Such a flippant remark, as if God doesn't hear; especially when HE stated:

"But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”

 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.:  Deut 18:20,22

After their long lineage of failed prophesy, they didn’t stop with 1975.

These are prophesies as well:

1989 "The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century." Wt. Jan. 1, 1989, p. 12 [bound volume changed "20th century" to "day"])

"The countdown that has proceeded for some six millenniums now nears its zero hour. So close is it that people who were alive in 1914, and who are now well along in years, will not all pass off the scene before the thrilling events marking the vindication of Jehovah's sovereignty come to pass." Survival into a New Earth (1984) p.184

1992 "Today, a small percentage of mankind can still recall the dramatic events of 1914. Will that elderly generation pass away before God saves the earth from ruin? Not according to Bible prophecy. 'When you see all these things,' Jesus PROMISED, 'know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to you that THIS generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' - Matthew 24:33, 34." Wt May 1, 1992 page 3: The Year That Shocked The World)

"Before the last members of the generation that was alive in 1914 will have passed off the scene, all the things foretold will occur, including the “great tribulation” in which the present wicked world will end." Reasoning from the Scriptures p.97

And then, we have this spiritual “Reasoning”…

1993 "Further, the widely circulated booklet Millions Now Living Will Never Die presented the view that in 1925, God's purposes regarding the restoring of the earth to Paradise and the resurrecting of the faithful ones of old would begin to be fulfilled. ... The year 1925 came to its conclusion, but the end was not yet! Ever since the 1870's, Bible Students had been serving with a date in mind - first 1914, then 1925. Now they realized that they must serve for as long as Jehovah wishes." (Watchtower; Nov. 1, 1993; p. 12)

It interesting that they didn't mention 1975 in that quote.  With your leaders, once a false prophet, always a false prophet.  They continue to “prophesy” falsely, today. 

Concerning who comprise “this generation”, in 1995 it is said,

"Jesus was not departing from his established use of the term “this generation”, which he consistently applied to the contemporary masses with their “blind guideswho together made up the Jewish nation. ... Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics." Watchtower 1995 Nov 1 pp.14,20

No, no no!  THIS is what Jesus meant:

2008 - "As a class, these anointed ones make up the modern-day "generation" of contemporaries that will not pass away "until all these things occur." This suggests that some who are Christ's anointed brothers will still be alive on earth when the foretold great tribulation begins." Watchtower 2008 Feb 15 p.24

But wait!  Evidently, he meant…

2010 - "He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation." Watchtower 2010 April 15 p.10

And…where are you and David Splane with this today?  Just who are the “blind guides” anyway?

1 John 4:1 - "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."

 

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Anna said:

Yes. It's natural for every generation to want to live to see all the good promises fulfilled in their lifetime. With the right attitude, this should not be a disturbing thing to anyone, at best. At worst, it is a disappointment when it doesn't happen and can make you downhearted temporarily. With the wrong attitude it can make people angry and throw out the baby with the bath water.

I am completely agree with conclusion in Your first/second sentence. Up vote :))

However, I’m not sure what it means, generally, and/or what do You mean with; to have the right or wrong attitude when it comes to "wanting and expecting that something (promises from Bible or God or GB) to be fulfilled in our lifetime".

 

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13 minutes ago, Witness said:
13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Everyone gets one failed end-date call within a lifetime. It’s in the rules. It’s a sign of staying alert. Jump the gun in the race and do they shoot you with it? No. It’s not a big deal. They just start the race over.

 

Such a flippant remark,

It seems how our friend @TrueTomHarley speaking how it is "normal" to be deceived with "end-date call". I can agree with reality how always exists individuals or groups who are masters in deceiving and manipulation of other people. And we all can be their victims.

JW members are not first and not last people who were/are/will be successfully deceived with "end-date call". But it is also true how WTJWorg leaders aka GB, supported and associated in collaboration with with Elders, very successfully from generation to generation of JW members, keep in force, maintain all those expectations about Armageddon. At the same time, they accuse unnamed individuals/members of being guilty of erroneous expectations and interpretations of the text in publications and public speeches. GB members with the help of the administrative apparatus (Helpers, Elders), place possible outcomes based on interpretations of the biblical text. 

GB are flippant (or not?) and members are flippant. Thanks to God some of us escaped from such condition.

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

GB are flippant (or not?) and members are flippant.

Please don’t tell me you’ve escaped into a world in which there is no flippancy. Next you’ll be saying that peace, brotherhood, and mutual respect are the default conditions in the overall world.

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6 hours ago, Witness said:

Such a flippant remark

Here you go, Your Holiness, how’s this one for flippant? I spun this into a post of its own:

“It’s embarrassing when you say the world is going to end and then it doesn’t. How are you going to shake off that one? Jonah was so nonplussed that he hiked outside Nineveh to sit and sulk. (Jonah 4:1-5)

Robert Luccioni addressed such problems when he advised “strengthening your spiritual core.” Disturbed at a prior organizational “dogmatic statement?” What if you had heard Jesus himself make one? “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves,” he said. (John 6:53) He lost a lot of disciples that day. “This speech is shocking—who can listen to it?” they said, and stomped off. They might have done better had they strengthened their spiritual core—hang around to see how it played out.

The trick is not to try to sanitize the present. It is to desanitize the past. This is what Luccioni does as he considers a few biblical blooper scenarios, like when Jesus’s disciples failed flubbed up expelling a demon that was causing great havoc to a child—and the scribes were making hay out of that failure. “They failed? Isn’t that their job?” he envisioned spectators being stumbled over it. (Mark 9:14-18) In the same way should modern-day “disciples” fail in some aspect of their job—well—some are stumbled.

How about the brouhaha over 1975? Might that not cause ones minus an enduring spiritual core some problems. Vic Vomodog trots out this faux pas repeatedly. Answer his question once and he repackages it and runs it through again. What a humiliation it was. Could it happen again?

There are two ways to answer this question: 

“No.” As Mark Twain said: “A cat that sits on a hot stove will never sit on a hot stove again. Nor will it sit on a cold one, for they all look hot.”

“Yes.” Are you kidding me? It was 6000 years countdown from Adam per Bible chronology. AND, coupled with the 1000 year reign of Christ to commence after Armageddon. It doesn’t call to mind the 6:1 sabbath arrangement of God? Especially given that one day to God is as 1000 years to mankind? Yes, yes—days to years is apples to oranges—still, its close enough. It is the 1000 to 1 that sticks.

Come now. You think they’re going to snooze through that one? They’re the watchman, after all. It’s an irresistible type/anti-type situation. Given the monumental alignment of the planets, it’s a wonder they didn’t make the call far more forcefully than they did, instead of merely stating it was a possibility, which some zealots presently escalated into a probability. They have to make a call on something like that. It is a sorry watchman, peering through the gloom, high up in his perch, that sounds the alarm only when the prow of the approaching ship smashes through the gunwale and pinches his toes.

“No.” The above is actually reassuring. Because such monumental circumstances will not repeat for a long, long, time—and it took such monumental circumstances to put the call on the back burner that some moved to the front. Three or four years after 75, I recall some rep saying, “We’ve sailed past all the markers.” What can that mean except, “We’re done?” No more calls like that—until the next time—but there shouldn’t be a next time, for that kind of a setup doesn’t happen everyday. Now we get things like “deep in the last days,” the “end is just around the corner,” and “the last of the last days.” No sense in holding out till “the last of the last of the last of the last days” Last of the last is enough.

Everyone gets one failed end-date call within a lifetime. It’s in the rules. It’s a sign of staying alert. Jump the gun in the race and do they shoot you with it? No. It’s not a big deal. They just start the race over.”

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2020/11/1975could-it-happen-again.html

 

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I didn't bother to read @TrueTomHarley book promoting rubbish above, as he just loves to try to be funny and/or make excuses for his failed American Governing Body. It is such a shame that they are all American or American influenced. They have become 'big headed' and obviously do not have God's or Christ's approval. 

A couple of quotes for dear Tom. 

It’s called getting the overall picture and not just zeroing in on what you want to see.

OK, so lets enlarge on that one Tom. Overall picture of the Org' from it's beginning shows that the Org and it's Leaders have been putting dates on Armageddon from step one. It shows the Org' has been using Armageddon to frighten people into the Org'. One reason for doing so is to get more money from people, more congregants = more donations. another reason for doing so is Power. The bigger the Org, the more people the Leaders can control. Add to this that there is then more people to spread the lies of the Leaders. The more the lies are spoken, the more people will start to believe them. 

Then of course we have, what Tom calls my favourite subject. An overall picture of the Child Sexual Abuse within the CCJW / JW org shows that in Australia they started recoding it 50 years ago, but strangely enough America only seems to have a database / records for the past 25 ish years ???? But overall it can be seen as an Earthwide serious problem within the CCJW. 

So there we have an overall outlook on a couple of points concerning the CCJW. Just to note that many of us on here do look at the overall picture but then we get criticised for it.

Second quote 

And what of this diatribe of yours that the ‘true anointed’ is to manifest itself (out of nowhere) in but a few years max? Is that not you asserting we are in the last of the last?

It does seem that some on here do not have ANY SPIRITUAL FEELINGS AT ALL. They have NO FAITH IN GOD OR CHRIST.

I can imagine Tom stood at the Red Sea with Moses. Tom would be saying "What's this diatribe about God saving us from the Egyptians"   Where is your faith Tom ? 

The last hour of the last day as per your GB, would seem to mean this year or next.  I have said it would take a few years to straighten out the CCJW and that would need a True Anointed to run it.  I like to say 'True Anointed' as it has two meanings. 1. your GB keep saying that some 'anointed' are actually mentally sick. 2. your GB seem to think only they are 'special' and anointed. So TRUE ANOUNTED ones would not be 'sick' and would not be of your GB. 

I have in the past backed this up with scripture, but it has proven pointless as JW GB worshippers are blind to reason. 

@Anna quote 

Yes. It's natural for every generation to want to live to see all the good promises fulfilled in their lifetime. With the right attitude, this should not be a disturbing thing to anyone, at best.

Sorry Anna, bad try. You seem to be washing over facts, such as your GB  pretending to be the F&DS and previous leaders also pretending to be inspired of God's Holy Spirit. Not only have congregants served those Leaders to the point of worshipping them, but congregants have taken that message to millions of people in the world. The message that has been spread so far and wide has been LIES. If you do not find that disturbing then you have a problem.

Thank you @Witness for adding further proof of the OVERALL PICTURE which Tom seems to want. 

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18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Please don’t tell me you’ve escaped into a world in which there is no flippancy. Next you’ll be saying that peace, brotherhood, and mutual respect are the default conditions in the overall world.

I would not say something like that, of course and for sure ...., and you are neither forecaster nor prophet able to know what i will say next :)) 

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