JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@César Chávez 2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 

Yes it is true they did so. BUT Your GB do not sit in the seat of Moses. Your GB did not inherit anything. They are not of the Nation of Israel. Please remeber that Jesus went to 'The lost tribe of the House of Israel'. Jesus did not go to the nations. Jesus was speaking to Jews. 

If only people would understand the Jesus went first to the physical Jews, and now to the spiritual Jews. The scriptures are for the Anointed ones.

But as you say "he (Jesus) was not out to "destroy" the Pharisees but to SHOW the people their hypocrisy. They should observe and obey the will of God and not fall into their own desires,"

I too am not out to destroy true servants of God. I am not out to destroy the CCJW as an organisaton either. If God through Christ wants to use the CCJW then it would be wrong of me to work against God and Christ. BUT just as you say about Jesus showing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, so I and others show the hypocrisy of the GB and others leading the CCJW. 

@Srecko Sostar  mentioned how it seemed strange for Jesus to say what he did. And in fact those ones that followed Jesus did not continue to " practice and observe everything they tell you." Those that followed Jesus did things Jesus' way. We know they did so because the Jewish religious leaders often complained about the behavior of the disciples. BUT Jesus' way was the 'new' way of serving God. 

It is your GB and others in the CCJW that follow their own desires. Child Sexual Abuse Earthwide in the CCJW proves that some of your fellow congregants have followed their own desires. 

The GB calling themselves the F&DS and beating their fellow slaves proves that the GB follow their own desires. The GB and previous Leaders of the CCJW making false predictions about Armageddon also proves they have followed their own desires. 

How much more proof do you need about the hypocrisy in your CCJW Organisation ????    

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

@Srecko Sostar  mentioned how it seemed strange for Jesus to say what he did. And in fact those ones that followed Jesus did not continue to " practice and observe everything they tell you." Those that followed Jesus did things Jesus' way. We know they did so because the Jewish religious leaders often complained about the behavior of the disciples. BUT Jesus' way was the 'new' way of serving God. 

Thanks! You understand perfectly what i wish to say. Because what Jesus said to his listeners at all was his expose about Jew's Teachers of the Law aka scribes, Pharisees and others, how bad and evil they are. Because after Jesus told people about "do what they tell you" he said so many criticism and judgments about that sort of "spiritual leaders", and in fact his wording - "do what they tell you" is sort of irony and sarcasm. In such way i will understand his words today. And perhaps, I hope, his listeners in the past felt same way.

[Witness]

On 11/25/2020 at 9:10 AM, Anna said:

The only message I know of is the message of the Good News and salvation for all those who want to live under God's Kingdom.

Are you promoting the premier brochure "What is God's Kingdom"?  Is this the good news that you are referring to?  Because again, it is promoting 1914 - the date tied to WT prophesy that you question as true.  

"The sign that Jesus gave, along with Bible chronology, helps us understand that God set up his Kingdom in heaven in the year 1914. * At that time, he installed his Son, Jesus Christ, as King. (Psalm 2:2, 4, 6-9)

They didn't use Psalm 110:1 as they commonly do.  Maybe because people are reading their Bible and continue to Psalm 110:2 (1 Cor 15:24-28)  Maybe the GB must hide the fact that Jesus began his reign while on the earth, since 1914 is a core teaching that can't be eliminated.  There could be a huge upheaval - an exodus as a result.  That would not be good news at all for your leadership. But die-hards will remain - those who trust their leaders as the origin of "new light".   The blame for belief in a falsehood/'error' will fall on those who left the organization, since it will be promoted that they are the ones who lost their "faith" in the spirit-directed organization; subsequently, even though they reject the lie, your organization will say they reject God.   

Matt 21:5; John 1:49; 18:36,37; Luke 17:20,21; 11:20; Luke 22:69; Ps 110:1,2; 1 Cor 15:24,25; Dan 2:44

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+21%3A5%3B+John+1%3A49%3B+18%3A36%2C37%3B+Luke+17%3A20%2C21%3B+11%3A20%3B+Luke+22%3A69%3B+Ps+110%3A1%2C2%3B+1+Cor+15%3A24%2C25%3B+Dan+2%3A44&version=NKJV

We can't claim to be "for truth", and tolerate a lie, in order to preserve one's allegiance to an organization.  We can't say we are preaching "good news", when we know that the message contains lies.  

As Elijah said,   “How long will you falter between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.” But the people answered him not a word."   1 Kings 18:21

 

 

[Witness]

On 11/27/2020 at 11:19 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Robert Luccioni "morning worship" or morning manipulation and damage control, quote:

"Wicked men and impostors would also inflame statements that people did not understand ...."

GB blamed in past and blame today own members because they "inflame" WT statements in publications. Do readers of this WT magazines need to, at all, to "inflame" what was already "inflamed"?? about 1941 and 1975??

"inflamed statements" by the WT.  And you provided the list, which we are to "understand" and accept that they had a valid role in Wt's teachings?  What?  Their only purpose today, is to reveal them for what they are - false teachings.   Yes, his comment is a meager attempt at damage control. 

This reminds me of Jesus' warning in Matt 16:6,12

“Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees...Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees."

Luke 12:1 calls this "yeast"/teaching, hypocrisy.

I was thinking about the contrast of the use of the word, "yeast" in both this scripture and in Matt 13:33

"He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds of flour until it worked all through the dough.”

Yeast transforms dough through living fermentation, creating heat.  When added to flour and water,  bread is produced.  The Pharisee's teachings infiltrated every fiber of " bread"/spiritual food they produced and taught the people.  God's word became corrupted.  Mark 7:6,7; 1 Cor 5:7

"You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.”  Gal 5:7

All of those quotes you gave us, were persuasion tactics, found in unfit food/bread, already consumed. Do JWs realize that everyone in the organization, including their leaders, consumed "empty philosophy"?  Col 2:8  Which "spirit" was responsible for heating up those expressions - those hypocritical "teachings"/yeast?  Wicked men harbor a wicked spirit.  (1 Tim 4:1,2) 

Who would be ignorant enough to treasure stale "bread"?  Why does the organization defend its larder of unfit stale, moldy, "bread", not even fit to feed the birds?  

Jesus is the "bread of life", formed from "living water" and "wheat".  (John 12:23-26) He is filled with the Spirit of truth.  (John 7:38; 14:6; Phil 1:19; Rom 8:8,9) His pure teachings transform, even inflames those who accept and teach them, as the teachings of salvation.  This is how the Kingdom of God will grow.   

John 6:35-37 - Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."

 

[Srecko Sostar]

39 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

Scripture is clear when it comes to those that qualify to lead.

It can be, it can be. 

41 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

How can a religion leader teach, if that religion, supports gay rights, murder by war, etc.

When religious leaders teach in a manner of "clarifications", "new lights", "beliefs clarified" and similar things constantly + UN, OSCE, CSA and are involved in various Court cases and investigations.  When their "doctrinal pearls" with real estate manipulations comes to be visible for many people, ....yes it is useful to ask; "Are they qualified to lead people and represents King Jesus?" 

54 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

This is exactly what the Watchtower does by faithfully following Gods commands as instructed by Christ.

Do they?

For the sake of argument only: Is the instruction to destroy the incriminating documentation, on global scale in WTJWorg, an instruction that came from Jesus?

:))) you are funny

[Space Merchant]

On 11/24/2020 at 11:57 AM, 4Jah2me said:

Um, it has been proven over and over and over again that leaders of the CCJW (or what ever name it used in the past) had deliberately made false predictions, pretending they had some 'special knowledge'. 

So can you provide a quote of them saying the world is going to be destroyed in 1975? If an ExJW risk his own channel to speak this truth, why not give a quote?

As of recent, this ExJW is currently against other ExJWs the day he posted the video of whom they forced Youtube to shut him down.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

21 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

So can you provide a quote of them saying the world is going to be destroyed in 1975? If an ExJW risk his own channel to speak this truth, why not give a quote?

As of recent, this ExJW is currently against other ExJWs the day he posted the video of whom they forced Youtube to shut him down.

Remember when Jesus was asked a question about His authority, Jesus answered with another question. 

Well then, can you provide a quote where I have said, that the Leaders of the CCJW said the world is going to be destroyed in 1975. 

But there seems to be lots of proof available that the Leaders of that organisation made false predictions in 1941 and in the 1960's. When that organisation said in the 60's that it would be fulfilled 'within a FEW YEARS' of the time those magazines were written.  Tell me, from your viewpoint, how many is a FEW ?  Surely less than 10.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

These words by @César Chávez 

By your misinterpretation and nonsense, Of course. Now show me a religious group that "hasn't" fallen in Satan's world? Show me a list of "all" the government institutions that are perfect. 

So, is Ce'sar judging the CCJW by worldly standards. Is he say the CCJW is better than all the rest?

DID GOD judge the Nation Of Israel by the condition of the rest of the world ? NO. 

GOD judged the Nation Of Israel by HIS OWN standards. And so it shall be. GOD through Christ will judge the GB and the CCJW by GOD'S STANDARDS not by the fallen standards of the rest of the world. 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Now show me a religious group that "hasn't" fallen in Satan's world?

Do you have problem with perception ...... 

.....or authors of this WT magazines have problem with self valuation ? This claims/quotes tell nothing about, what you call - "fallen in satan's world", or may we say, .....fall under satan's influence. 

Or the imperceptible influence of the evil one occurs, so the WTJWorg claim to have the truth is nothing special, for others also claim to have the truth.... , without being aware that they are under the influence of lies !?

This JW people who wrote articles speaking only about "truth" inside WTJWorg religion. They say: WE HAVE THE TRUTH and WE PRACTICE THE TRUTH.

Do you want to change your question, perhaps? :)) Or do you like to agree with conclusion how your attempt to defend WTJWorg is without foundation because of your statement: Now show me a religious group that "hasn't" fallen in Satan's world?

 

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe That They Have the One True Religion?

Those who are serious about religion should think that the one they’ve chosen is acceptable to God and Jesus. Otherwise, why would they be involved in it?  Jesus Christ didn’t agree with the view that there are many religions, many roads, all leading to salvation. Rather, he said: “Narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.” (Matthew 7:14) Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that they’ve found that road. Otherwise, they’d look for another religion. - https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/true-religion/

Are You Convinced That You Have the Truth? Why?

....In other words, they are practicing true Christianity. ......As devoted Christian preachers and teachers, Jehovah’s Witnesses are so convinced that they have found the truth ......Witnesses do all of this because they are convinced that they have found the truth......That Jehovah’s Witnesses hold to God’s standards—in stark contrast with the permissiveness common in many churches—has in itself convinced many that this is a people who practice the truth......That Jehovah’s Witnesses hold to God’s standards—in stark contrast with the permissiveness common in many churches—has in itself convinced many that this is a people who practice the truth. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20140915/jehovahs-witnesses-convinced-have-truth/

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@César Chávez  you are burbling.  You ramble on about my words being empty, and then you start going on about JTR and Allen smith, and 'proper authorities being informed'. Everything you say there is totally off topic and does not relate to anything we have spoken about. 

Yes if it has been proven, then JTR messed up his own life, and must pay the price both legally and spiritually. 

As for Allen Smith he was before my time on here and I know nothing about him. 

I agree that God through Christ will judge us all. I'm not expecting to be in the 'New World'.

However Romans 9 v 14, 15 & 16 tells us, 

¹⁴  What are we to say, then? Is there injustice with God? Certainly not! ¹⁵  For he says to Moses: “I will show mercy to whomever I will show mercy, and I will show compassion to whomever I will show compassion.” ¹⁶  So, then, it depends, not on a person’s desire or on his effort, but on God, who has mercy. 

So no matter what we think of each other, it is Almighty God through Jesus Christ that judges us as individuals when judgement day arrives. 

But for now, each of us has to judge the GB and the CCJW Organisation for ourselves. You judge them to be good. I judge them to be bad. We have to judge them to be able to make a decision about what we should do in our own lives.  You have judged them to be serving God properly therefore you follow them. I have judged them to be turning their back on God and Christ and therefore I have left them.  

However you have judged me "as a prosecutor of Gods people and his faithful servants, regardless if you accept it or not." And you tell me "You are only condemning yourself!!" 

So, you make judgement of me. That is of course your choice. But you are judging me by the standards of the GB and the CCJW. You are not judging me by God's written word. No where in God's word does in mention the GB or the CCJW as being God's people. Please remember the scriptures say, 'by their works you will know them'. And I have judged the GB and the CCJW Org' by Bible principles and by Jesus' words.  

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@César Chávez asks me,  "When did the Watchtower GB "ever" judge you, personally as you have personally judged them?"

The answer is quite simple but you don't really want an answer.  The GB do not need to judge me as i have no effect on their lives.  I do need to judge the GB, just as you yourself have judged them, because it affects our lives.  But my judging them goes further because the GB affect the lives of all JWs and all people that might wish to join the CCJW org'.  So my Christian conscience tells me to warn others of the danger from the GB and the CCJW Org. 

JWs judge the Catholic religion and it's Pope. JWs judge the Muslim religion and all other religions. The GB and Watchtower judge all other religions. You yourself judge other religions and you judge governments. That can be seen by your earlier comments.  For instance, you offered this challenge "Now show me a religious group that "hasn't" fallen in Satan's world? Show me a list of "all" the government institutions that are perfect."  By this comment you are seen to be judging other religions and governments.

I have found scripture to be relative. For instance Matthew 7

1. “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

That sounds good, because I judge others by God's word in scripture.  And I expect to be judged by God's word too. 

I do agree with you about life choices.  Hence i left the CCJW Org. Why would i want to remain part of such an immoral organisation. But i knew I would be shunned by over 120 people from the local congregation and i knew i would be falsely accused of wrongdoing and accused of being disfellowshipped. 

As for the outcome of JTR, i had no idea. I didn't follow the court case. JTR is just one man. He wasn't the Leader of 8.5 million people and i don't think he was trying to start his own religion.  He was neither a friend nor an enemy of mine, he was just another member of this forum...  But in this case it does prove your point about life choices.

And as for my own sins, I do tell everyone that i don't expect to be in that 'New World'. By that viewpoint i leave it to God through Christ to judge me. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@César Chávez Every comment you give shows more and more your lack of confidence.  You lack confidence in your GB, your CCJW Org and yourself.  You prove your lack of confidence by continuing to try to insult me and by the way you jump from one subject to another, then another. 

You last comment was about JTR and Alan Smith, now you are burbling about 'gay union' and war.   None of which relates to this topic at all.  But i will relate to one of your previous comments, a scripture.  From Matthew 7 

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Now that scripture can easily relate to your GB and the other leaders/helpers in the CCJW / Watchtower. 

Your Leaders show up the faults in other religions, but hide the faults in their own Organisation.  It's fact, live with it or leave the Org.