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JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?


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8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

“We have spent a lot of time trying to explain to them what we think is their moral obligation to participate in this scheme but they have to date declined to do so.”

The key words here are “we think.”

The WT thinks differently and their thinking makes more sense. To my knowledge, every other party in this redress plan is structured so that children will be separated from their parents—it is not optional—it is standard operating procedure. That being the case, it stands to reason that they should be penalized if they so separate children and then fail to protect them.

With WT, there is no program that separates children from parents. Almost all abuse reported is cases among the ‘rank and file’—those from elders or servants are unusual. 

So—it is “within the ranks” in the case of Jehovah’s Witnesses. In these other organizations, there is not even a means to track abuse entirely among ordinary members—let alone the supposition that anyone other than the actual perpetrators ought be held responsible. So the WT should sign on to some plan that equates them to groups that systemically separate children from parents? I think not, and so apparently do they.

Next thing you know Hyundai will be penalized for any abuse that occurs among its customers. No. The WT being substantially different, it is better to handle all cases on an individual basis rather sign on to some plan that lumps everyone together as though they all operate the same.

And, goodness knows, these things are often a wedge to drive in further concessions. Even a formal apology that some seem to feel is so important, will no doubt have huge implications in the world of lawyers—who will seize upon it as though a guilty plea.

 

 

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My first ever meme to call my own. I figured if I could make one here, I can make one anywhere!

I agree. But where did they get the date from? Those who were serving with a date in mind didn't just pull the date out of thin air did they?

You are told that God’s Spirit is with this organization. (Rev 13:15)  Yet, history proves that with each false prophesy and failed teaching by your leaders, God’s Spirit is not resting in the organization. (Prov 12:22) The God of Truth would not lie, and neither would Jesus Christ, who is Truth. (John 1:14,17;14:6)  If you say God is with you, all JWs are liars themselves. (Prov 13:5) In your mind and hearts, you have blurred the boundary line, between truth and lies.  It should be distinct wit

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9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is interesting to read how author of article said this:  However, discussions of human laws on same-sex marriage relate to a political issue, not a moral one.

The whole point is that anyone can do whatever they want. 

Only if a person wants to serve Jehovah, then they must abide by his rules. They must hate what Jehovah hates. 

This is why it can be said that JWs are neutral with respect to what the world does. But they are definitely not neutral with respect to what the congregation does.

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7 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Aside from being confused on your application, what else do you have to substantiate your slander?

Remember what your slanderous comment is "WTJWorg and GB already accepted "gay rights" inside some specific WT rules." I asked you to prove it, not show me how confused you are about the subject.

I SUGGEST, IF YOU DON'T MIND, TO STAY FOCUSED ON "1975 DEBACLE" OR ANY OTHER "ARMAGEDDON DEBACLE" IN WTJWORG.

With this comment i will end my participation  about "gay issue" :))

I’m Attracted to the Same Sex—Does That Mean I’m Gay? 

Not at all!

Fact: In many cases, same-sex attraction is nothing more than a passing phase.

But what if your attraction to the same sex seems to be more than a passing phase? Is it cruel of God to tell someone who is attracted to the same sex to avoid homosexuality?

If you answered yes to that last question, you should know that such reasoning is based on the flawed notion that humans must act on their sexual impulses. The Bible dignifies humans by assuring them that they can choose not to act on their improper sexual urges.—Colossians 3:5.

The Bible’s stand is not unreasonable. It simply directs those with homosexual urges to do the same thing that is required of those with an opposite-sex attraction—to “flee from fornication.” (1 Corinthians 6:18) The fact is, millions of heterosexuals who wish to conform to the Bible’s standards employ self-control despite any temptations they might face. Those with homosexual inclinations can do the same if they truly want to please God.—Deuteronomy 30:19. -

    Hello guest!

If someone says: “Homosexuals can’t change their orientation; they’re born that way.”

You might reply: “The Bible doesn’t comment on the biology of homosexuals, although it acknowledges that some traits are deeply ingrained. (2 Corinthians 10:4, 5) Even if some are oriented toward the same sex, the Bible tells Christians to shun homosexual acts.”

✔ Suggestion: Rather than get ensnared in a debate about the cause of homosexual desires, emphasize that the Bible prohibits homosexual conduct. -

    Hello guest!

Same source of spiritual knowledge and guidance with advice for JW members -  You might reply: “The Bible doesn’t comment on the biology of homosexuals, explains this issue in different way:

 

  •  nor men kept for unnatural purposes (1 Cor 9)– Awake 1997 Dec 8 pp.14-15
  • Christian cannot excuse immoral behavior by saying he was ‘born that way.’ But can anyone deny that their sexual appetite is perverted? – Awake 1995 Feb 8 p.16
  • Here Paul specifically condemned both male and female homosexuality. He condemned homosexual practices as unnatural and “obscene. - Awake 1995 Feb 22 p.14
  • And again, as in the case of homosexuality, the Bible views it as a crime worthy of the death penalty – Awake 1982 Jun 22 p.10
  • We can be grateful that God does not change his standards just to satisfy the passing fancies or perverted desires of men.– Awake 1989 Jul 8 p.27

It seems how WTJWorg try to be closer for public and potential new members in a way that omits significant elements of one’s own attitudes, which are based on the Bible. In same time they send public message -"The Bible doesn’t comment on the biology of homosexuals ... but we know what Bible thinks about this sort of people."

In their magazines WTJWorg gave Bible proof how homosexuality is unnatural and by that Bible does comment on the biology, so how/why GB gives advice to JW members to say: The Bible doesn’t comment on the biology of homosexuals ?

 

 

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5 hours ago, Anna said:

This is why it can be said that JWs are neutral with respect to what the world does.

Public preaching program shows elements when JW people take stand for "Kingdom" and against "World". JW's are against this World because of their deeds.  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. John 3:19

Does JW want the world to be saved, to change its deeds/actions? Yes, because For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:17

Neutral = impartial = uninterested

Well, does this mean that JW's are uninterested for this world? Mainly yes. Public preaching is of only interest for JW's regard world and secular community. And about  human rights on their religious activity.

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8 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Not at all. I just like proving how insane the ex-witness views are. Normal people nowadays don't bother or care about religions inner workings. That falls to desperate people that are clueless in what they support and write.

So called "normal" people perhaps are not members of WTJWorg ?

Do "normal" people who are JW members care about "inner workings" of GB+Helpers+Lawyers+Elders? 

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moral obligation =

Point 1 - An obligation arising out of considerations of right and wrong; "he did it out of a feeling of moral obligation"

 A duty which one owes, and which he ought to perform, but which he is not legally bound to fulfill.
 These obligations are of two kinds 1st. 

Point 2 - Those founded on a natural right; as, the obligation to be charitable, which can never be enforced by law. 2d.  

Point 3 - Those which are supported by a good or valuable antecedent consideration;

 

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The key words here are “we think.”

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The WT thinks differently and their thinking makes more sense.

What is ground for moral obligation? Whether GB is missing any of these three points? What moral (or religious, or charity, or company) standard allows GB not to respond to a moral obligation, an official call from the authorities or the law?

I don’t think this is about whether JWs have or not have separate classes in which they teach young children, without the presence of parents, to their religious education. This is how an institution (WTJWorg) and each JW congregation reacted/reacts to the CSA in its circle.

WTJWorg and congregations failed that test.

 

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With WT, there is no program that separates children from parents. Almost all abuse reported is cases among the ‘rank and file’—those from elders or servants are unusual. 

So says @TrueTomHarley 

He is deliberately stating falsehoods here.  And I will continue to look for and post every article I can find to prove that Elders and Ministerial Servants commit Child Sexual Abuse. 

Also, I will post every article concerning all levels of 'people with responsibility' within the CCJW that deliberately hide Child Sexual Abuse / Pedophilia within the CCJW by not reporting it. 

By not reporting CSA the Elders and others are allowing a pedophile to remain in the congregation unknown to other congregants and unknown to the public. They are allowing such a pedophile to continue to abuse children and to continue to break the law. 

Whilst there might not be a specific 'programme' of separating children from parents, it is obvious that such separating is allowed and approved of. I know it happens so no point in pretending it doesn't. 

It happens for personal Bible study, and, for ministry. 

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On 11/27/2020 at 3:28 PM, César Chávez said:

Not at all. I just like proving how insane the ex-witness views are. Normal people nowadays don't bother or care about religions inner workings. That falls to desperate people that are clueless in what they support and write.

So your type of 'normal people' just follow blindly then. Just as JWs blindly follow the GB. Your choice of course.

I would sooner serve God through Christ. But if you wish to serve your GB blindly without looking into the 'inner workings' of your religion, then you will judged on that. 

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4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And I will continue to look for and post every article I can find to prove that Elders and Ministerial Servants commit Child Sexual Abuse. 

These would be the only cases that correspond to the abuse cases of other groups—and they are a very tiny minority. If they were the rule, as is the case elsewhere, then yes—signing on to a redress plan might be appropriate.

But they overall make up a very small number. The vast majority of cases comes from a quarter that is not even tracked anywhere else—individual incidents that have nothing to do with leadership. 

It is why the ‘one size fits all’ model that fits most if not all other signees does not fit JW. 

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Whilst there might not be a specific 'programme' of separating children from parents, it is obvious that such separating is allowed

You think it is the elders’ place to forbid any child to leave its parents side, then.

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13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I SUGGEST, IF YOU DON'T MIND, TO STAY FOCUSED ON "1975 DEBACLE" OR ANY OTHER "ARMAGEDDON DEBACLE" IN WTJWORG.

Don't blame me Srecko, since you are the one that side stepped this sad attempt to prove 1975 by the aid of some none conforming witnesses to help ex-witnesses. I'm not the one that is ignorant to that issue or the one you can't prove, by being an outright liar. Something I am considering challenging legally. It's time you ex-witnesses need to understand, the trouble such slander can bring.

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I’m Attracted to the Same Sex—Does That Mean I’m Gay? 

You just answered your question by confusing your gender. I recall in scripture, in the book of Matthew, merely looking at a woman with lust has commented adultery. What is LUST? If you're attracted to the same sex, then you cannot say explicitly "you are not" in some way lusting after.

 

14 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But what if your attraction to the same sex seems to be more than a passing phase? Is it cruel of God to tell someone who is attracted to the same sex to avoid homosexuality?

At what point do you honestly believe you can "hide" things from God? Does the listen of JTR not answer your question.

14 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If you answered yes to that last question, you should know that such reasoning is based on the flawed notion that humans must act on their sexual impulses. The Bible dignifies humans by assuring them that they can choose not to act on their improper sexual urges.—Colossians 3:5.

I don't think you are reasoning anymore, Srecko since "putting on the new self" is exactly what Christ was referring to by abstaining from sinful ways which includes sexual immorality. 

However, didn't you just mention to stay focused. Does your words mean nothing.

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So called "normal" people perhaps are not members of WTJWorg ?

Do "normal" people who are JW members care about "inner workings" of GB+Helpers+Lawyers+Elders? 

Mental state defines the normality of peoples actions. People that suffer from not being able to move on with their lives and believe they have to criticize something everyday just to feel good even though their words are empty, I don't consider that normal, and psychologists don't either.

It has been mentioned "redress" that has not hit the mark. I would have people seriously consider the Biblical understanding of it, rather than the definition of it, since your actions and that of John, Witness and any other ex-witness is complying with it, and action NOT sanctioned by scripture.

 

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5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

So your type of 'normal people' just follow blindly then. Just as JWs blindly follow the GB. Your choice of course.

Correct John, normal people follow God and Christ, and since you as an ex-witness are NOT doing so by your actions, then you are contributing what scripture refers to redress. Does your kind have the authority under God's law to punish after a secular court has? Learn scripture, and what "redress" implies. 

This is an interesting concept that should be understood by all.

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We seem to have crossed over topics completely but ...............

You JWs are so sly @TrueTomHarley  to only partly quote me is as bad as misquoting me. 

You think it is the elders’ place to forbid any child to leave its parents side, then. Tom says.

BUT YOU have said it does not happen. 

And what i said was Children separate from their parents for Bible study and for ministry and elders approve of it happening.  And I was a JW for long enough to do ministry in many places and see it happen.  In fact Elders that take groups split up families and send Children out with other Adults on the ministry.  I hope that is clear enough for you TOM.  One thing about being an EX JW is that I KNOW first hand what goes on in some congregations here in the England.  And I add to that by court cases from USA where it has been proven that Children have been raped whilst in the ministry with an Elder. 

But JWs including Tom don't seem to think the GB or previous Leaders are guilty of anything. Even though it has been proven that congregants were told NOT TO REPORT CSA to outside authorities. 

sorry this is all off topic. 

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