Utah high court weighs case of woman who says church made her listen to audio of her rape

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

How wonderfully loving and merciful those Elders were if this is true ????????? 

SALT LAKE CITY — The Utah Supreme Court heard arguments Monday in a case alleging male leaders of a Jehovah’s Witnesses congregation in Roy forced a 15-year-old girl to listen to a recording of a man raping her in 2008.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/11/9/21557200/utah-supreme-court-case-woman-says-church-made-her-listen-to-audio-of-her-rape-jehovahs-witnesses

“The allegation here is a mental and emotional equivalent of waterboarding,” Justice Deno Himonas said. “I’ve been a judge for a long time and a lawyer for a long time. I’ve never seen, in court, anything like this that’s alleged.”

The woman sued the four elders, the Roy church and the religion’s national organization, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, in Oden’s 2nd District Court in 2016. She alleges she cried, shook visibly and pleaded for them to stop as they played the recording intermittently over the course of at least four hours in 2008. Their goal was to extract a confession that she had voluntarily engaged in sex outside of marriage, her attorneys contend.

She alleges she was 14 years old when the man, a fellow Jehovah’s Witness, 18, bullied her increasingly and began sexually assaulting her in December 2007. She alleges he raped her several times and provided her congregation’s leaders a recording of one instance.

And they didn't immediately report him to the Police for rape or underage sex ????? 

This religion which is built on God's word and Christ's instructions, with high moral standards ??????? 

 

 

[Arauna]

Yes it is only JWs that are cruel but the government laws are never cruel - just negligent.  Children of any age had to face their rapists in court until 2007.  Only then did the law change where their testimony could be taped taped and played in court.

We do try to live clean lives and do make mistakes but people like you expect us to be super-human beings which we are not.  May Jehovah judge you according to your attitude. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Arauna How easy it is for you to compare JWs to the wicked people of Satan's world. 

However I think God and Christ have made Scriptures to use to compare your CCJW org to. Compare to God's high standards, not to Satan's low standards. 

@TrueTomHarley Keeps telling me how 'wonderful' the Elders are, but if this report is true then we can see their sins quite clearly. 

Yes we all make mistakes but are you saying one must be 'super-human' not to rape or not to hide rape in the Org. 

As for Almighty God judging me, I thought 'All authority' had been given to Christ, so he will judge. 

As for my 'attitude' of wanting God and Christ to have a clean, loving, merciful Organisation, then I hope I am judged on that. 

[John Houston]

Yes, Christ will judge. And if what is said is true then it is evil and awful what happened. But what if it is not true? What if the emotional impact is exaggerated and yet only as bad as the next person? Years have passed and we as outsiders are hearing these reports as third persons and have intense emotional opinions  about things either way. What if she in fact was in a consensual affair until they were caught, and then the %*#% hit the fan. I have been in this situation, so I speak from inside the arena, not third person. Traumatic, yes, but things need to be handled timely by authorities then, not years later. Emotional scars, yes, but there can not be compensation for that, if so all of us should be in court for litigation. Sad when those who should be shepherding us is involved, but what happened to him? Did he get moved to another congregation and remain an elder? Or removed? An as any other sinner he has the same chance to repent, o matter how WE think the heinousness of the act was. If Jehovah has forgiveness yet in this system, then ALL who show repentance must be given forgiveness, then they will have to stand before the Judge who reads hearts. That is when th wteuth comes out on everybody!

[Srecko Sostar]

In April 2008, the Elders summoned Ria for questioning in connection with their investigation. (R. 83–84.) The Elders first questioned Ria (who was accompanied by her mother and stepfather) for 45 minutes about her interactions with Mr. Williams, including whether Ria had voluntarily engaged in sexual activity with him. (R. 84.) Having failed to obtain the information they wanted, the Elders then played an audio recording that Mr. Williams had provided that captured the sound of one of the times he had raped Ria. - https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2019/11/Williams-Brief-for-Petitioner.pdf

Whether this is voluntary or forced sex, the question arises: why would a JW man record sex in his car? And then, why would he give the tape to JW elders?

And to top it all off, why would a legal body in the church accept such a recording unless it is a buy/sell situation? Is that Mr. Williams sells the record for a milder sentence and puts all the blame on Ria?

[Witness]

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

@Arauna How easy it is for you to compare JWs to the wicked people of Satan's world. 

However I think God and Christ have made Scriptures to use to compare your CCJW org to. Compare to God's high standards, not to Satan's low standards. 

Why do JWs boast about "Jehovah's organization", but then "pass the buck" when they are accused of gross sin?

To 'pass the buck' is to evade responsibility by passing it on to someone else.

To shift or reassign the blame or responsibility (for something) to another person, group, or thing.

blame somebody or to make others responsible for a problem that you should deal with yourself. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@John Houston This is just one case and there are thousands more Earthwide in the Org. 

Each case involves Victims. Each case also involves the Victims family and others. 

Each case is a stumbling block to congregants and to outsiders that might have been interested in having a Bible Study. 

Each case therefore brings shame on Almighty God and Jesus Christ.  Multiply that by thousands and it is a very large stumbling block to the whole earth. 

The GB / CCJW / Watchtower are saying that we are living in the last 'hour' of the last day, of this wicked system of things. Therefore it would seem strange to me that God or Christ would allow such a massive stumbling block to interfere with people gaining 'truth' for everlasting life. 

On the one hand you have the GB sending out the threat that 'If you are not a baptised JW you will not get saved'. 

And on the other hand you have the GB trying to hide all this pedophilia and fornication within the Org, but as the scriptures say, 'Things done in darkness will be brought out into the light'. 

I do not believe that the GB have the approval of God or Christ because the GB use Victims as collateral damage. 

So many cases have been proven to be true, and so many big undisclosed  'pay outs' have been made by the GB's Lawyers that it gives enough evidence to show the lack of spirituality within the ranks of the CCJW Leaders and Elders. 

[John Houston]

When I read what you just written and what many more write I chuckle, because it seems it is forgotten the examples set out in scripture of the very things occurring now. Ones say IF, well when Eli's sons were doing the things they were doing, weren't people saying the exact things now? "Is not this the 'tabernacle of Jehovah?" Is he not seeing what they are doing" So yes Jehovah and Jesus are seeing what is going on. And because there is no immediate action, ones are impatient and think Jehovah is not involved at all, but is that so? When have Jehovah or Jesus used PERFECT people to achieve their purpose? As I have read scripture it has always been imperfect ones, even ones who had committed sins and repented of those sins, am I correct? So what has changed? Emails, Twitter accounts, computers, the Internet, advanced technology? Has Jehovah lost his almightiness in some way? Has he gone to sleep as Odin has to in that mythical drama? I have been in this faith for Som 50+ years and seen a lot. I have been behind the curtain so there is nothing hidden from my eyes having been an elders son. I knew of the envelopes and the procedure they go through aback in the day, when maybe there should have been more safe guards and empathy for those who were victims. But I also saw the lies told to enact processes on innocent people that destroyed families. So I have knowledge of both sides of the coin. So when we speak let us not ever leave Jehovah out of the conversation. He is always there and when it is HIS TIME, he will take care of all things we think are being neglected, fully and thoroughly. And then we will and should be happy with the results.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@John Houston Keep on deliberately blinding yourself. I laugh at people that use examples about the Nation of Israel. You seem to forget that those people were born into that Nation. However with JWs it is voluntary, so yes they should be 'perfect' in God's eyes through Christ. 

The difference is between sin due to being imperfect, or, sin due to deliberate actions. And you are misleading yourself if you think God or Christ is happy with the CCJW. 

Matthew 5 v 48 (to the Anointed ones ) You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Or from the NWT.  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

So, disagree with Almighty God if you wish, but it is not advisable.. 

And if you have first hand knowledge of the crimes committed in your Org, by the Elders and others, then you should have reported those things to the Police or other 'Superior Authorities'. So it seems that you are part of the problem. 

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, John Houston said:

I have been in this faith for Som 50+ years and seen a lot. I have been behind the curtain so there is nothing hidden from my eyes having been an elders son. I knew of the envelopes and the procedure they go through aback in the day, when maybe there should have been more safe guards and empathy for those who were victims. But I also saw the lies told to enact processes on innocent people that destroyed families. So I have knowledge of both sides of the coin.

 

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And if you have first hand knowledge of the crimes committed in your Org, by the Elders and others, then you should have reported those things to the Police or other 'Superior Authorities'. So it seems that you are part of the problem. 

 

[Matthew9969]

I wonder which one of the elders kept this recording, and listened to it a lot.

[Shiwiii]

On 11/11/2020 at 12:59 AM, Arauna said:

Children of any age had to face their rapists in court until 2007

does this make it right? 

 

On 11/11/2020 at 12:59 AM, Arauna said:

May Jehovah judge you according to your attitude. 

oh my , holier than thou spoken here. 

 

Seriously, you are defending the org, because it has been this way for x amount of years? so it should continue? it should be tolerated? Do you not have compassion? sorrow for those who have to go thru this? but its ok that the org does it because it's been this way? What happened to standing up for what is right and just? Would Jesus say "well its been this way for so long and back in 1992 they did it this way.........." I hardly doubt it. If you want the org to succeed, then you are a part of making it succeed, not a by standard who will protect at all costs. 

 

sorry if I am harsh, but this is BS.