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Is "dynamic energy" a Proper Translation In Isaiah 40:26?


AlanF

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On 12/9/2020 at 9:48 PM, AlanF said:

What does it mean to keep the stars in place? Ce

Most stars stay in orbit so as not to create chaos. We see occasional changes - which is entropy - it leads to chaotic incidence. The universe we can see with our eye is mostly organized with each star in its (orbit) place.  If each moved where they please we will see continual explosions/fusions etc.  So this verse is asking us to "think" about what we see.

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Is "dynamic energy" a Proper Translation In Isaiah 40:26? In various Watchtower publications the writer argues that the phrase "dynamic energy" that the New World Translation uses in Isaiah 40:26

Here is Gesenius on the word. Gesenius is often considered the ultimate Hebrew-language authority by Watchtower publications: Here is Strong's: אוֹן ʼôwn, probably from the same as H205

I am not familiar with idea (that some JW believed) how all Universe is created in 6000 years. But remember well how official teachings was changed from: 1 Creation Day is 7000 years, to 1 Creation Da

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15 hours ago, Arauna said:

The bible is not a science manual. It is a book which gives us the history of how God is still on track to reach his final outcome of his purpose - while allowing wicked mankind to rule themselves with their own governments of choice in the interim period.  God just steps into humankind's affairs  when his final purpose is in jeopardy.

 Describing his power/dynamic energy/ projected energy / spirit is just inviting us to look around us and open our eyes. To make sure of the evidences of his existence and power. "Not one if them is missing" means that God can count billions of stars....... something I doubt any human can do without a computer.  So we are asked to ' think'  about things.

The same issue still exists today. Human rule, or acknowledgement of the sovreignty of God. Now, at the apex if human discovery, when science and tech has become the new God of the 4th industrial revolution,  people look to science and technocracy to fix all the problems on the globe. Yet at present we face the biggest threat to the continuance of human existence than ever before due to humankind's mismanagement of things, our own selfish desires for power and control.   

Nothing of which addresses the issue: Did the writer of Isaiah mean that God is the source of the modern scientific concept of energy as embodied in Einstein's equation E=mc^2 ? Corollary: does the Isaiah passage really refer to the Big Bang and such?

 

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Arauna said:

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On 12/9/2020 at 1:48 PM, AlanF said:
What does it mean to keep the stars in place? Ce

Most stars stay in orbit so as not to create chaos.

The ancient Hebrews knew nothing of the modern concept of orbits. For them, "orbit" meant "going around the sky every day". You're again trying to attribute modern knowledge to ignorant ancients.

The phrase "keep the stars in place" obviously refers to the sky as observed by people who see the stars go round and round every day. Nothing more than that.

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We see occasional changes

So what? According to the Bible, the sky was constant.

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- which is entropy - 

Which the ancient Hebrews knew zero about.

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it leads to chaotic incidence.

What?

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The universe we can see with our eye

I have two.

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is mostly organized with each star in its (orbit) place.

Really. How do you rationalize attributing such modern knowledge to the ancient Hebrews? Did they, for example, know that the stars in the central portion of our galaxy are zipping around at furious rates around our giant central black hole?

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If each moved where they please we will see continual explosions/fusions etc.

Expressions like this prove that you have no idea what you're talking about. Not even enough to understand what I've just said.

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So this verse is asking us to "think" about what we see.

Which most JWs are highly averse to doing. Such as you.

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18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I know this phrase too. It is known in JW circle and publications. 

:))) than to translate words in Isaiah with "dynamic energy" is out of mind.

Indeed, it is "out of mind".

Just as a point of language, one might best say something like, "Anyone who would translate the words in Isaiah as "dynamic energy" is out of his mind."

It was Fred Franz who did that with the New World Translation. Even though he was brilliant on some level, he was certainly out of his mind -- an idiot savant.

Unfortunately, Franz managed to become the "head theologian" for the Watchtower Society for perhaps 60 years. One can see the horrendus results that this brilliant idiot produced, results that most ex-JWs are very familiar with.

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1 hour ago, AlanF said:

Indeed, it is "out of mind".

Just as a point of language, one might best say something like, "Anyone who would translate the words in Isaiah as "dynamic energy" is out of his mind."

It was Fred Franz who did that with the New World Translation. Even though he was brilliant on some level, he was certainly out of his mind -- an idiot savant.

Unfortunately, Franz managed to become the "head theologian" for the Watchtower Society for perhaps 60 years. One can see the horrendus results that this brilliant idiot produced, results that most ex-JWs are very familiar with.

Igniting the idea that some individual or GB was appointed by Jesus from heaven in 1919 is collective work of religious leaders and members. We have a small group of people who have begun to believe about their own “messianism” and special status, both before God and before people. They are followed by followers who seeking leadership. From that pool of people will later come heirs who will think and say that they are now those “chosen ones”. And the circle is closed. There is no way out, except for the complete rejection of such an organized system and escape to a kind of individualism. Some, very few of them, ex-JW sometimes return to the mother organization, and others find other paths to God or to some other Reason and Purpose. And some just exist.

The damage has been done, and mostly cannot be repaired. The people who came out have scars. Here, me for example. I argue/disputing with those who advocate WTJWorg on this Forum, instead of finding a "smarter job". :))))) PTSD for sure :)))

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5 hours ago, AlanF said:

Anyone who would translate the words in Isaiah as "dynamic energy" is out of his mind."

As I said before - the spirit is " projected energy" to accomplish a purpose.  Spirit and power are related. 

To deliberately ignore that connection is like reading excellent evidence that evolution is not possible and then to go ahead and ignore it. 

What if you "think" you are brilliant and not a savant.  I will take an idiot - savant any time. If later he lost the help of God  - it does not demean the work he did. However, the NW translation has been revised on 2 occasions I am aware of. 

 

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5 hours ago, AlanF said:

ancient Hebrews knew nothing of the modern concept of orbits.

True - but you demeaned the questions asked by the bible writer. It is clear that Moses was a thinker and was also an educated man - having access to the highest education of the time, as well as a man who communicated with jehovah. 

A sheeple can come to the same conclusion..... Anyone can see mostly order in a universe where things can go badly wrong if there were not cycles. Ancient star watchers (priests) knew which morning star was on the horizon every day of the year. They made advanced calculations regarding the stars and wrote it all down. Any anomaly was noted so as to link it with earthly events - so as to be able to make predictions. They knew how trustworthy the events in the skies were - recurring year after year.

In job we find description of natural cycles such as the water cycle etc. Your skepticism blinds you to many realities of the past.

 

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41 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Moses was a thinker and was also an educated man

Role model for JW's. To be Thinker and Educated.

42 minutes ago, Arauna said:

having access to the highest education of the time, as well as a man who communicated with jehovah. 

Beautiful! Egyptian wisdom and God's spirit together.

 

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On 12/12/2020 at 8:42 AM, Arauna said:

As I said before - the spirit is " projected energy" to accomplish a purpose.  Spirit and power are related. 

Still no connection with E=mc^2 -- the Watchtower arguments are demonstrably false.

On 12/12/2020 at 8:42 AM, Arauna said:

To deliberately ignore that connection is like reading excellent evidence that evolution is not possible and then to go ahead and ignore it. 

If you can't see the falsity of the Watchtower arguments, there's no help for you.

On 12/12/2020 at 8:42 AM, Arauna said:

What if you "think" you are brilliant and not a savant.  I will take an idiot - savant any time. If later he lost the help of God  - it does not demean the work he did.

Idiot savants have unexplained brilliance generally in ONE area. In most other areas they truly are idiots. Fred Franz is a fine example of this. ALL of his wild prophetic speculations have either proved false or been abandoned by present WTS leaders.

On 12/12/2020 at 8:42 AM, Arauna said:

However, the NW translation has been revised on 2 occasions I am aware of. 

Several minor revisions, one major one in 2013. So what?
The fact is that Franz managed a translation that was woodenly accurate in most areas -- but not where Watchtower tradition dictated his warping the translation. Careful examination proves that he knew exactly what he was doing with these wrong renderings. He deliberately selected several possible meanings of the original Hebrew or Greek, and chose the one closest to the desired pre-existing Watchtower doctrine, even when such wrong rendering made no sense in context.

For example, look at John 17:3 in the old and new NWT versions. Do you know why they're different? Do you understand that, in context, the old rendering was flat-out wrong? And why?

I pointed this out to an elder nearly 20 years ago, and he happened to be smart and honest enough to admit it after I showed him half dozen Greek-English lexicons. Very few JW officials -- certainly not Fred Franz -- have shown such integrity.

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On 12/12/2020 at 8:57 AM, Arauna said:

True - but you demeaned the questions asked by the bible writer.

Not at all. What I have consistently pointed out is that Bible writers demonstrate no more knowledge of "science" than any other educated people of their time. And in most cases their expressions reflect the common misconceptions of their time, such as when Isaiah 40:22 clearly indicates a pizza-pie shaped earth. A fact that I've pointed out several times and you've carefully ignored.

On 12/12/2020 at 8:57 AM, Arauna said:

It is clear that Moses was a thinker and was also an educated man - having access to the highest education of the time, as well as a man who communicated with jehovah. 

He was educated in Egyptian knowledge and mythology. So what? Nothing in the stories allegedly written by him shows any knowledge beyond what the Egyptians had.

On 12/12/2020 at 8:57 AM, Arauna said:

A sheeple can come to the same conclusion..... Anyone can see mostly order in a universe where things can go badly wrong if there were not cycles.

The only cycles Bible writers knew about were what everyone else knew -- the sun and moon and stars go round and round in the sky.

On 12/12/2020 at 8:57 AM, Arauna said:

Ancient star watchers (priests) knew which morning star was on the horizon every day of the year.

Of course. They could see it.

On 12/12/2020 at 8:57 AM, Arauna said:

They made advanced calculations regarding the stars and wrote it all down. Any anomaly was noted so as to link it with earthly events - so as to be able to make predictions. They knew how trustworthy the events in the skies were - recurring year after year.

Yes, people like Babylonian and Mesoamerican astronomers were excellent observers and had good knowledge of mathematics. So what? The Bible writers displayed no such knowledge.

On 12/12/2020 at 8:57 AM, Arauna said:

In job we find description of natural cycles such as the water cycle etc. Your skepticism blinds you to many realities of the past.

Um, it's another bit of simple observation that water falls from the sky as rain, collects into rivers which flow into the sea, and the sea is not full. And that there are yearly seasons -- cycles -- where regular patterns are observed. It doesn't take miraculous knowledge to see any of that.

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