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17 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Michael Shermer acknowledges that many scientists believe in God, no doubt because they sense there are limitations to science.

Do you have information to what religions these scientists belongs? Or they are just independent believers?

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On Whether Noah's Flood Is Physically Possible Consider the amount of water needed to flood the entire earth to a depth sufficient to cover the highest mountains. What depth would that be? The Watchtower Society quoted a source that estimated how deep the water would be if the earth were completely smooth (Is the Bible Really the Word of God?, 1969, p. 37): << If all the irregularities on the earth's surface were to be smoothed out, both above and below the water, so that th

I'm making a catch-all place for the discussions on these topics that were currently under different topics/subjects. As I move old posts into this new topic, the oldest ones will appear to identify the starter/owner of this topic, even though that person didn't create this topic.

Oh dear not that old record again. The whole Watchtower / GB / JW org seems to pivot on that one false belief of 1914. In scripture we read at Matthew 28 :18 - 20    English Standard Version 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. A

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

they cannot explain the origin of their God.

You cannot even explain  the zillions of miracles in evolution that took place "per chance" - there is no evidence that explain any of them (only theories) and then you want us to explain a much greater being - BUT at least our miracles have a purpose and did not take place per chance.  There is also enough evidence of God's  existence by the intricate "information"  in every aspect of the universe.  DNA (an operating system giving instructions in sequence of every  event to take place), mathematics, different energies and frequencies - natural phenomena  that all operate by natural LAW etc.   So yes, start to explain these natural phenomena and look into that more thoroughly before you judge and take sides with human inadequacies.

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18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

speculation of no practical significance.

No - you do not understand the ransom sacrifice.  If there was other perfect creatures living in another part of the universe than Jehovah would not have a need for a legal precedent here on earth to play out namely,:  that no other creature / government  can rule independent from Jehovah.

I foresee the govt. releasing so-called allien information (propaganda ) to get many to leave their faith........ be careful.

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11 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I foresee the govt. releasing so-called allien information (propaganda ) to get many to leave their faith........ be careful.

Not to worry. Elon Musk tried to recruit me for an alien search space expedition. “I’ve got preaching to do,” I told him. “I can’t blow my time on that nonsense.”

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On 1/11/2021 at 12:17 PM, 4Jah2me said:

So humans have always had a ruler over them

The moment Adam became obedient to Satan he became a slave of satan and his desires.  romans 6:  "Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey,"

Those who by CHOICE put themselves under Jehovah could flee from satan's influence over the entire earth.  (satan offered the kings of earth to jesus , remember?)

When Jesus came to earth in flesh, he paid the ransom and his disciples are by choice under his authority. Since 1914 he started ruling amid his enemies on earth over his nation which is being collected from amongst humankind. but being part of this nation is also a personal choice - then you fall under protection of Jehovah.

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8 hours ago, Arauna said:

Since 1914

Oh dear not that old record again. The whole Watchtower / GB / JW org seems to pivot on that one false belief of 1914.

In scripture we read at Matthew 28 :18 - 20    English Standard Version

18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” 

So there you have Jesus' words. 33C.E.  Not 1914. 

And when will your GB get baptism right ?  Once again the words of Jesus. "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," NOT in the name of JW Org. 

 

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16 hours ago, AlanF said:

she does of the Watchtower's history of using Young-Earth Creationism to 'defend' the Bible.

That is an empty taunt - lol.  I do believe the earth itself was created when the heavens were created and it is very old - that is why one should be careful that animal fossils are not contaminated with rock that is much older.

The animals only appeared when the earth had cooled down and after god started preparing the earth for inhabitation such as proper light, balancing the gasses in the atmosphere, plants and water and then only humans...... These epochs only began when the earth was ready to prepare for habitation... so yes young earth means the earth was prepared much later than the universe appeared

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9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

‘a fool believes every word, but the wise one considers his steps,’

Yep very true. And JWs have been fools for over 100 years. Why ? Because they have believed every word of the Watchtower leaders.  Well they must have either believed or knowingly followed lies, which is it ? 

Going door to door with lies from the leaders of the Watchtower.  Just acting as postmen or delivery agents, delivering a 'message'.  1914, 1970's, berore the end of the century, last hour of the last day, must be baptised JW, and many more failed messages. Yes like you say Tom, fools believe it all. But some of us are wise enough to 'wake up' and to consider our steps. 

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Notwithstanding quirks as Michael Shermer’s forsaking his own ad hominem attack ban to indicate by voice intonation that those who oppose him are nuts

Why does he do this? After declaring ad hominem attacks off limits, he does nothing but engage in them throughout his lecture series. It would not be apparent in transcript form, but it audio it is pronounced. Each time he quotes an advocate of creation, or “pseudoscience” or “conspiracy theory” or—in short, anyone he disagrees with, he lowers his tone to convey paranoia or lunacy. 

It is better to vow not than vow and not pay. I would never swear off ad hominem attacks. Although I agree with his rationale to ‘attack the faulty idea, not the faulty person,” some people have such disagreeable ad hominems that you almost can’t help but call them out on it. In fact on matters of philosophy, psychology, or behavioral science, is an ad hominem attack not directly relevant? If the ideas they peddle were any good, wouldn’t they have done more for them personally?

So I haven’t ruled them out. But he has. That’s way it is so blatant when he continually indulges the temptation them through inflection. 

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

[to Alan] Why you think they should strive to capture the nuances of what both you and they think is faulty is beyond me.

It is a little bit like—in fact, it’s exactly like—what is now done in teaching the Bible to those of non-Christian background. One drawback of the Live Forever book and the Truth book before it was that they assumed people were indoctrinated with church teachings.

But as the ministry increased outside of the West, the situation more and more became a matter of teaching church doctrines to people who had never believed (or knew) them in the first place just so as to tell them to forget them—they’re wrong. Why teach them in the first place?

Present study material does not teach them. It deals with them in supplemental or appendix form if students have an issue with them, but otherwise lets them slide.

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