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1 hour ago, xero said:

Agreement leading to discontent because no one is telling each other the truth about how they really think and feel about something, because they think the others are into it when they aren't, but they go along for the same reason. Everyone's miserable as a result.

If people would just say what they really thought, it would be different in a lot of cases.

Like this!

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This helped me to see the source of Alan’s enmity towards me. It is pure envy.

I'm making a catch-all place for the discussions on these topics that were currently under different topics/subjects. As I move old posts into this new topic, the oldest ones will appear to identify the starter/owner of this topic, even though that person didn't create this topic.

For the life of me, I cannot take this fellow seriously. With a level of abuse (granted, I provoked it here, but it is just so much fun. And this is not really an example of it) that is off the charts, it is virtually the only thing about him worth mentioning. I can’t imagine why the Librarian (that old hen) puts up with him, when she has dropped the abuse hammer on others. Poor CC suffers it every time you turn around—not necessarily unjustly, but certainly no worse than this fellow. Even

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17 hours ago, AlanF said:

ou call presenting facts "name calling".

If you think calling people 'a moron' and other names is an act of presenting a logical fact, then you belong to the common designation -  wackedemia. 

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35 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Like this!

Unfortunately it seems that it's human nature to not "speak truth to one another".

My wife is the opposite. She always says what she thinks.

I remember one time this peppy elder asked her "Don't you want to go to Bethel?" and she said "No. I'd be cleaning toilets, while X would get to do something interesting."

She was right, of course, but instead of telling the truth she was supposed to make up some BS lie about her real reasons...make it sound like more of an acceptable "theocratic" excuse.

Same thing when it came to being a circuit overseer. One CO thought I was definitely CO material - I was already a regular pioneer of 26 years and an elder and this while working full time w/my wife who was a pioneer as well. But my wife put the hammer down on that idea. :)

I've been thinking about group-think for a while, and I'm convinced that you can't have a group of any kind or size w/o squeezing...This is because there's always a minority which is active which wants prominence and is less tolerant of differences in opinions and consciences.

Take this one family. They always creeped me out. Later it turned out my instincts were correct, they had been into some weird stuff on the side, but at meetings they were always pushing a hard-line view. They assumed I'd be into it too, but I wasn't.

Like there are people who are card-carrying JW's who are well intentioned, but quite frankly are busybodies. How many times have I heard "Bro X. I'm concerned about...." followed up by some busybody nosiness about how shiny or not some other bro or sister appears to be in their own lives and choices.

One of the other elders agreed. "I'm sick of people being 'concerned'!' (one of my favorite e's)

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On 2/6/2021 at 12:14 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

Envy is at the root of evil.

Many ancient cultures speak of the evil eye and it has remained until today in many cultures. It is basically to look at someone with envy.  The only problem is they are totally superstitious about it.

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5 hours ago, Arauna said:

Soon you will know what true Orwelian dystopia is - you who put your faith in human science, human philisophy and human governments. 

You use the word Orwelian lightly- without understanding what you are saying - you do not "know" all , even if you think you do.. You evaluate what we teach in a fleshly and materialistic / evolutionary way .......I can only feel sorry for you. 

Ssuuuuurrrre! Just as Russell warned about 1914, Rutherford warned about 1925, Franz warned about 1975, the Society and many JWs warned about 2000 and are now doing so via Real Soon Now.

JW critics have compared the Watchtower organization to Orwell's Utopia in Nineteen Eighty-Four for decades. For example, The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses (Heather and Gary Botting, Heritage, 1984) did so 37 years ago. I did so in the early 1990s (

    Hello guest!
 
    Hello guest!
). So have many other JW critics.

As usual you have no idea what you're talking about.

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5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Everyone uses the word Orwellian today, it is the new insult.

It is the same as how verbal pugilists, upon failing to convince the other side, describe ones on that side as “arrogant.”

It is the same as how “cognitive dissonance” has become the new phrase of insult, as in, “Your cognitive dissonance must be massive to withstand the force of MY overpowering arguments.”

Blow it all off. It is just blowhards blowing hard, as they have always done.

On average, the people of this system of things are smarter than those of Jehovah’s Witnesses, better educated. Yet that advantages is squandered by their inability to get along, to yield, to work together for common good. Witnesses run rings around them in the practical deeds of their choosing, thus triggering taunts of Orwellian, arrogance, and cognitive dissonance. 

The main flaw in your 'argument' is that neither you nor any other JW defender has been willing or able to disprove any of the debunkings of your favorite doctrines that I and other JW critics have published. This thread is a good example.

Can you prove that your Bible God exists? No.

Can you disprove that "God is love" and "God is a monster" are BOTH true statements? No.

Can you present arguments that The Argument From Ignorance is proof that the Bible God exists, and is not some other Creator god like, say, the Hindu Brahma? No.

Can you prove the Bible is inspired by an omniscient God when it so clearly describes the earth as a flat, circular disk topped by a solid metal-shield-like expanse, all surrounded by an "ocean" of primeval waters? No.

Is the Bible really inspired by The Omniscient Creator when it has the order of creation of birds and land animals backwards? No.

You might just as well believe the moon is made of cheddar cheese if the Bible said so.

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On 2/6/2021 at 9:17 AM, xero said:

I think a lot of people who have left and a lot who have stayed have a lot in common. They haven't made the truth their own. Instead they either abdicate their free will to an organization or they blame an organization for their having left. In either case if the shoe fits is that "each one must carry his own load"

There is so much in this little piece. Lets dissect it.

They haven't made the truth their own Which truth do you mean? The JW truth changes from year to year.  'New light' it pretend to be, but in honesty it is failed predictions.

Instead they either abdicate their free will to an organization But this is what the GB demand. The GB demand complete obedience through the Elder 'police'. 

or they blame an organization for their having left.  Now this is interesting. According to an Elder I know, no one leaves, they are all disfellowshipped.  BUT, for my part I will blame my Christian conscience as the reason I left the Org.  Although I left because of the immorality and dishonesty in the JW Org. 

"each one must carry his own load"  Yes indeed, but I didn't expect an Elder to phone my wife and tell her I had been disfellowshipped, when that Elder knew I had left of my own choice and he knew the reasons too. 

Unfortunately many of you JWs pretend that all 'ex-JWs' are wicked people that 'go back into the wicked world' :). Sorry but I find it so funny that you people have to do that. You seem so insecure and need to reassure yourself by pretending that every one 'outside' is wicked.  JUST look at the paragraph I've quoted and see how many accusations there are against ex-JWs.  My first three highlights make it easy for you. You are taught to blame the ex Witness, never to blame the JW Org or the GB. 

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2 hours ago, Arauna said:

If you think calling people 'a moron' and other names is an act of presenting a logical fact, then you belong to the common designation -  wackedemia. 

You deliberately ignore the fact that I call morons morons ONLY after I present facts that they reject out of hand. You are a prime example.

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23 hours ago, xero said:

Suppose someone had a marriage that went south and the guy was ranting to you about his ex-wife at a bar. You'd probably think "OK, I guess this guy had it bad....Then say a year goes by and you run into him again..."Say how's it goin!" and he launches into a rant about his ex-wife again. Maybe you let it go...maybe he's still dealing with something....Then two years later...same guy, same bar and guess what? Still ranting about his ex-wife....

Suppose the ex-wife was a Pedophile ? and suppose the guy was actually doing two things, 1. Warning other people to stay clear, 2. Trying to help the victims make a case against his ex-wife. 

Apply that to the Watchtower / JW org / CCJW / GB,  EARTHWIDE.  That is what some ex-JWs are doing, because the GB and it's Lawyers are so wicked and dishonest. 

 

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1 minute ago, 4Jah2me said:

There is so much in this little piece. Lets dissect it.

They haven't made the truth their own Which truth do you mean? The JW truth changes from year to year.  'New light' it pretend to be, but in honesty it is failed predictions.

Instead they either abdicate their free will to an organization But this is what the GB demand. The GB demand complete obedience through the Elder 'police'. 

or they blame an organization for their having left.  Now this is interesting. According to an Elder I know, no one leaves, they are all disfellowshipped.  BUT, for my part I will blame my Christian conscience as the reason I left the Org.  Although I left because of the immorality and dishonesty in the JW Org. 

"each one must carry his own load"  Yes indeed, but I didn't expect an Elder to phone my wife and tell her I had been disfellowshipped, when that Elder knew I had left of my own choice and he knew the reasons too. 

Unfortunately many of you JWs pretend that all 'ex-JWs' are wicked people that 'go back into the wicked world' :). Sorry but I find it so funny that you people have to do that. You seem so insecure and need to reassure yourself by pretending that every one 'outside' is wicked.  JUST look at the paragraph I've quoted and see how many accusations there are against ex-JWs.  My first three highlights make it easy for you. You are taught to blame the ex Witness, never to blame the JW Org or the GB. 

4Jah...everyone has a different experience. Some positive and some negative. Elders have lots of opinions and so to GB members. I don't have to deal w/everyone's experience - they do. I also don't consider ex-JW's (if that's what they personally label themselves as) 'wicked'. I'm not in any position to judge. I also don't go hunting anyone down to see what they're up to. Sure you make these shepherding calls, but quite frankly, if someone's an adult and they don't want to talk, then I don't push it. Where I am, you'd have just been let be. Everyone has a conscience of their own and the last thing anyone should want to do is to become an obstacle to someone else's faith - either by being presumptuous and attempting to override their conscience, or by creating an "Us vs Them" mentality.

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4 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

There is so much in this little piece. Lets dissect it.

They haven't made the truth their own Which truth do you mean? The JW truth changes from year to year.  'New light' it pretend to be, but in honesty it is failed predictions.

Instead they either abdicate their free will to an organization But this is what the GB demand. The GB demand complete obedience through the Elder 'police'. 

or they blame an organization for their having left.  Now this is interesting. According to an Elder I know, no one leaves, they are all disfellowshipped.  BUT, for my part I will blame my Christian conscience as the reason I left the Org.  Although I left because of the immorality and dishonesty in the JW Org. 

"each one must carry his own load"  Yes indeed, but I didn't expect an Elder to phone my wife and tell her I had been disfellowshipped, when that Elder knew I had left of my own choice and he knew the reasons too. 

Unfortunately many of you JWs pretend that all 'ex-JWs' are wicked people that 'go back into the wicked world' :). Sorry but I find it so funny that you people have to do that. You seem so insecure and need to reassure yourself by pretending that every one 'outside' is wicked.  JUST look at the paragraph I've quoted and see how many accusations there are against ex-JWs.  My first three highlights make it easy for you. You are taught to blame the ex Witness, never to blame the JW Org or the GB. 

Excellent comments! To which I will add:

To the typical JW "truth" has a meaning different from what everyone else understands. To a JW it means "whatever is current in Watchtower teaching". Thus yesterday the "faithful slave" was the entire earthwide body of "anointed ones", but today it's the "Governing Body". Yesterday it was "the truth" that "the saints" were resurrected to heaven in 1881, while today that teaching is considered apostasy.

The JW baptismal vows, adopted around 1985, contain a legally binding promise for the baptized person to believe and obey all things designated "current teaching" by the various Watchtower corporations. Thus there is no unique "truth" since those teachings can change and do change with the winds of current events.

Most JWs are well aware that if Watchtower leaders decided that the Trinity is "current teaching", they would go along with it. ANY teaching is up for grabs in the JW world.

Once a new teaching is adopted, the JW community forgets the old and mostly forgets that the old ever existed. Hence the phrase "the Orwellian world of Jehovah's Witnesses".

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