Creation-Evolution-Creative Days-Age of the Earth-Humanoid Fossils-Great Flood

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

8 hours ago, xero said:

I'm not in any position to judge. I also don't go hunting anyone down to see what they're up to.

Could do with more like you here in England then.  I've been a member of a few congregations In southern England having moved around a bit, and the Elders are more like police officers looking for trouble, BUT, they overlook their friends 'sins', only harassing some brothers and sisters. Some things are too personal to mention on here but I've seen some wickedness and some very unpleasant Elders. Luke 17 : 1 & 2.   

[AlanF]

11 minutes ago, xero said:

4Jah...everyone has a different experience. Some positive and some negative. Elders have lots of opinions and so to GB members. I don't have to deal w/everyone's experience - they do. I also don't consider ex-JW's (if that's what they personally label themselves as) 'wicked'. I'm not in any position to judge. I also don't go hunting anyone down to see what they're up to. Sure you make these shepherding calls, but quite frankly, if someone's an adult and they don't want to talk, then I don't push it. Where I am, you'd have just been let be. Everyone has a conscience of their own and the last thing anyone should want to do is to become an obstacle to someone else's faith - either by being presumptuous and attempting to override their conscience, or by creating an "Us vs Them" mentality.

Good thoughts. But they're not shared by JW leadership. They're power-hungry busybodies all too eager to police the lives of their dumb followers.

That's one reason I never wanted a position like elder or servant. I live and let live, even in my mental view of others.

Of course, in forums like this designed for debate, expressing dissent is par for the course. It's a false cry of "foul" when those criticized complain.

[Arauna]

32 minutes ago, AlanF said:

call morons morons ONLY

lol

[Arauna]

57 minutes ago, AlanF said:

JW critics have compared the Watchtower organization to Orwell's Utopia i

People like you take it seriously - we do not.  The Orwellian dystopia is on our doorstep and you are oblivious of it....because  you are looking in the wrong place for it. That is how smart you are!

[AlanF]

8 minutes ago, Arauna said:

lol

That's all you can manage because your brain is too mucked up to function properly.

[AlanF]

1 minute ago, Arauna said:

People like you take it seriously - we do not.  The Orwellian dystopia is on our doorstep and you are oblivious of it....because  you are looking in the wrong place for it. That is how smart you are!

Cult members never know they're in a cult.

As for your "Orwellian dystopia", that's far from a JW teaching -- you're an apostate.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, xero said:

Unfortunately it seems that it's human nature to not "speak truth to one another".

People would like (and should) be able to say ... what they think (good or bad, truth or false, whether others like it or not). There are shy people, insecure, there are those who may not trust others. Some may say only to selected close friends, but not in public in front of others, etc. If others knew something about us, they might consider us less valuable or they might misuse information about us sometime in the future.

They may be afraid of the reactions of the environment or the consequences of honesty. The family and the environment in which they live may feel that some topics should not be public because they are a “sensitive topic”.

I am of the opinion that it is not that we do not want to tell the truth, but that we are afraid of the truth, the truth about ourselves and others. :))

[AlanF]

5 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I am of the opinion that it is not that we do not want to tell the truth, but that we are afraid of the truth, the truth about ourselves and others. :))

Precisely why the JW Governing Body rages against "apostates" -- critics who tell the truth about "The Truth".

That's why so many individual JWs are afraid to read any material not coming from the Watchtower Society. One way or another they've gotten a taste of valid criticism, understand on some level that it really is valid, realize that if "The Truth" is not the truth they must reject the leadership of those who promulgate false things in God's name, and become afraid to take the consequences. Most JWs have their entire social structure tied up with things Watchtower and don't want to chance losing their friends and families, even at the cost of living with the knowledge that they do not worship "the God of truth". That's another consequence of being steeped in Orwellian thinking.

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, AlanF said:

The main flaw in your 'argument' is that neither you nor any other JW defender has been willing or able to disprove any of the debunkings of your favorite doctrines.

In your own way you are as malignantly obtuse as the other fellow. The reason I don’t focus on your proofs or debunkings is that they are not important. I’m perfectly willing to concede some of them will go your way. If they do, chalk it up to human imperfection. If they don’t, they still do not provide the underpinnings of a strong Christian faith. So you want me to go round and round on things that will not have consequence either way they fall? Maybe I don’t have a life, but nowhere near to the extent you don’t have one.

You live in a make-believe world of Sherlock Holmes.. Life is not like that. The Word says very little about proof. Jesus routinely said and things that would infuriate those of the narrow mindset you have retreated into. He raised straw men. He answered questions with questions. He employed hyperbole. He spun complex parables that he did not explain—let the heart figure it out.

”Taste and see that Jehovah is good,” says the Psalm. You have tasted and seen that he is bad. What more is there to say? And yet whatever place your tastebuds have led you obviously does not satisfy, for you repeatedly feel the need to troll in an attempt to sway other Witnesses. When they are not swayed, which is almost always, you resort to the name calling of a child.

At least Witness, and even 4Jah, pieces of work though they may be, at least present as wanting to help. They at least present as having somewhere to lead. They don’t look to the future as you do, proclaim it is rotten, and tell how they look forward to their death before it gets even world 

 

[AlanF]

TrueTomHarley said:

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4 hours ago, AlanF said:
The main flaw in your 'argument' is that neither you nor any other JW defender has been willing or able to disprove any of the debunkings of your favorite doctrines.

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In your own way you are as malignantly obtuse as the other fellow.

LOL! Pure projection.

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The reason I don’t focus on your proofs or debunkings is that they are not important.

The fact that your God doesn't exist is not important?

The fact that the Bible is merely the writings of men is not important?

How totally Orwellian!

The reason you don't focus on my proofs is that you can't debunk them.

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I’m perfectly willing to concede some of them will go your way.

But you never do. If you do, you know that you'll have a hard time remaining a happy, oblivious JW.

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If they do, chalk it up to human imperfection.

Oh, that you're not smart enough to debunk anything?

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If they don’t, they still do not provide the underpinnings of a strong Christian faith.

Precisely my point.

The fact that your God is imaginary provides the underpinnings only of folly and a useless existence, always hoping for but never finding your own Nirvana.

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So you want me to go round and round on things that will not have consequence either way they fall?

I'm merely pointing out facts. What you do with them is your lookout.

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Maybe I don’t have a life, but nowhere near to the extent you don’t have one.

LOL! Clueless as always.

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You live in a make-believe world of Sherlock Holmes.. Life is not like that. The Word says very little about proof. Jesus routinely said and things that would infuriate those of the narrow mindset you have retreated into. He raised straw men. He answered questions with questions. He employed hyperbole. He spun complex parables that he did not explain—let the heart figure it out.

But Jesus did not lie -- unlike you, most JW apologists, and above all -- your masters in New York.

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”Taste and see that Jehovah is good,” says the Psalm.

The Psalm is wrong. As Richard Dawkins wrote in The God Delusion:

<< The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. >>

You know perfectly well that there are plenty of OT passages that prove Dawkins' words right.

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You have tasted and seen that he is bad.

Wrong. He does not exist.

Perhaps a Deistic god exists, but not the Bible God.

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What more is there to say? And yet whatever place your tastebuds have led you obviously does not satisfy, for you repeatedly feel the need to troll in an attempt to sway other Witnesses.

I do not troll. I set forth facts and factual arguments. I get the same satisfaction out of seeing previously deceived people throw off the deceit as anyone does who is concerned about those "skinned and thrown about" by false shepherds.

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When they are not swayed, which is almost always, you resort to the name calling of a child.

Wrong in your usual fashion. I call names and such ONLY when the shoe fits -- when people lie, when they reject facts and arguments without looking at them, and when they persist in rationalizing the lies and bad conduct of their religious leaders.

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At least Witness, and even 4Jah, pieces of work though they may be, at least present as wanting to help.

As I said, I've helped well over a hundred people quit the JW cult. They all thanked me.

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They at least present as having somewhere to lead.

Ah, so giving people false goals is a worthy task, eh? Yet Jesus condemned people like your JW leaders as false prophets fit to be destroyed. 

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They don’t look to the future as you do, proclaim it is rotten, and tell how they look forward to their death before it gets even world 

What I look to in the future is realistic rather than the comfortable but imaginary myths of JWs and similar charlatans.

Most people don't like raw reality. Too bad.

[TrueTomHarley]

34 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Most people don't like raw reality. Too bad.

Please have someone notify me upon your death so I can etch into your grave marker, “He was always right.”

[AlanF]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Please have someone notify me upon your death so I can etch into your grave marker, “He was always right.”

LOL! Simpleminded ad hominems are your only responses.

Don't you know that stubbornness in the face of facts is as the sin of witchcraft?