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WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"


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12 minutes ago, xero said:

The question is whether the change is coming from a more accurate understanding of scripture in context (biblical archaeology, textual analysis) or the change is coming from external forces in human society.

Yes, of course.

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I have noticed that the desire to see God's promises fulfilled (nothing wrong with that of course), drives the human spirit to "predict" or "hope for" the end always in their life time. The pattern is clear: Russell hoped for the end in 1874 then 1914, Rutherford 1925, Franz 1975, the 80's GB by the end of the 20th century, today's GB between now and aprox. 2035. Each generation would say their children aren't going to make it to school....now those  children have children of their own...and g

I don't think you're a bad example. I find your posts encouraging and I'm sure a lot of other people here do. I think some of the "complainers" may just be working out their own demons, or I hope they are. Jehovah knows we cause most of our problems just fine all by ourselves.

One thing I've had hammered into me over the past decades of pioneering, studying w/mentally ill people, people who were out of jail, homeless people, professors of anthropology, teachers of farsi at the local mosque, chinese buddhists from hong kong (using me to practice english), professors of astrophysics, ranchers, ex-football champs, a hip hop artist and so-called normal people is that I'm not more worthy of survival than any of these. In fact many are arguably better people personalit

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@xero Wow the organisation have trained you well in their twisting of scripture and their sly lying ways.

Lets take for example the 'Faithful and discreet Slave' 

Up until 2013 (I think) ALL of the Anointed were classed as the F&DS. But then wow, suddenly ONLY THE GB  are the F&DS.

So, tell me how your GB got this message from God ?  Relate this to your cat nonsense. Where is ANY PROOF that your GB are the F&DS ?  Why did your GB suddenly demote the rest of the Anointed ones ?  

Now another example, the 'Superior Authorties' of Romans. How did your Org / Watchtower get the false message from God saying that the SA was no longer the Governments / Leaders of this world, but suddenly became God and Christ ? 

WHY WOULD GOD TELL A LIE ? Answer is God did not lie. The Leaders of your Org / W/t LIED because they wanted power over the whole congregation. They did not get any message from God.

And now your GB admit that they are not inspired of Holy Spirit, but they use this confession only as an excuse for the lies they've told and continue to tell. 

One of the main reasons your GB are so guilty of lies is, as I've mentioned, that they say they are the F&DS. By saying that, they are saying they are the 'vioce' / spokesperson of God through Christ. That is blasphamy, and they continue to prove so by their dishonest immoral behavior. 

The GB's attitude concerning Child Sexual Abuse within the Watchtower / JW Org proves they have no love for God, Christ or people. Your GB are a total disgrace, but of course they will have their judgemnet soon. 

 

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5 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

@xero Wow the organisation have trained you well in their twisting of scripture and their sly lying ways.

Lets take for example the 'Faithful and discreet Slave' 

Up until 2013 (I think) ALL of the Anointed were classed as the F&DS. But then wow, suddenly ONLY THE GB  are the F&DS.

So, tell me how your GB got this message from God ?  Relate this to your cat nonsense. Where is ANY PROOF that your GB are the F&DS ?  Why did your GB suddenly demote the rest of the Anointed ones ?  

Now another example, the 'Superior Authorties' of Romans. How did your Org / Watchtower get the false message from God saying that the SA was no longer the Governments / Leaders of this world, but suddenly became God and Christ ? 

WHY WOULD GOD TELL A LIE ? Answer is God did not lie. The Leaders of your Org / W/t LIED because they wanted power over the whole congregation. They di not get any message from God.

And now your GB admit that they are not inspired of Holy Spirit, but they use this confession only as an excuse for the lies they've told and continue to tell. 

One of the main reasons your GB are so guilty of lies is, as I've mentioned, that they say they are the F&DS. By saying that, they are saying they are the 'vioce' / spokesperson of God through Christ. That is blasphamy, and they continue to prove so by their dishonest immoral behavior. 

The GB's attitude concerning Child Sexual Abuse within the Watchtower / JW Org proves they have no love for God, Christ or people. Your GB are a total disgrace, but of course they will have their judgemnet soon. 

 

A lot of this are what I'd call "Red Herrings". They're the "noble reasons" that the guy in prison gives for why they stabbed the guy. (the truth was the look on the other guys' face)

Let's suppose you're right. That all this was a power issue. Whom did they have power over? What did it get them? Money? Fame? It wasn't until much later that I even knew any of their names. I could have cared less.

I never once believed something because the organization said something was so. I never burned a pinch of incense to them. I read their arguments and some of them I agreed with completely and others I could see multiple ways. I didn't see the point with arguing about "tabs vs spaces" as it all compiled the same. I wasn't baptized into the WTS.

Now to current issues. I do think that the issues w/pedophiles and the like is extremely important. I don't think any JW doesn't think it's important. How each case was handled? I don't know. How the organization has handled it - probably could have done it differently and they certainly know it now.

Was the issue the "two witness"rule? Perhaps, and this is where you have to ask whether this was taken in the wrong context and it created this situation. To me it always seemed a matter of principal, that you didn't convict someone w/o good evidence, not a literal reading of the mosaic law that you had to have two witnesses.

Does the fault lie with a corporation, or with individuals and individual congregations?

It's being treated as a corporate crime and I know people have been hurt. Clearly this isn't just an issue w/JW's but also w/any group as the problem is a problem w/in society as a whole.

Did we expect to remain untouched by the problems in the world? I'd say that would be unrealistic.

I know that the training we had as well as the reporting was in our case always above board and legal and ethical. There was a case once where a young man about 15 was over at another families house and something happened with another young girl who was also underage, maybe 13 at a pool party. How was it handled? The police were called, and they investigated. That body investigated the circumstances as well. Nothing legal ever took place and the young man never had any further issues, though he changed congregations.  About 15 years after this he was being considered as an MS. Well this family heard of it and raised a stink. We had a meeting and some of the brothers seemed to not understand the issues here. 1. This was looked at by the police. 2. This was over a decade ago. 3. He had no contact w/the family or girl since that time. Yet some imagined we needed to examine this over again. I had to underscore that the "issue" was the issue of slander, not this thing which was investigated years ago. 
 

He did get an appointment and he's married and doing well as far as I know. The other family hasn't fared so well. Was this all the fault of the 15 year old boy invited to a poorly supervised pool party? That doesn't seem reasonable.

On the other hand continued abuse and neglect of serious situations clearly have taken place and been grossly mishandled. I can't imagine the suffering that these have had to deal with and no JW I know would want any of this to take place - yet it isn't outside the realm of possibility that corrupt elders and other corrupt people will find a home somewhere. You can see them looking sometimes to check out a congregation to see its spirit to see if this is a place where they can get away with things. No doubt some find a "home". It's terrible. You can have CO's who travel and they're supposed to check up on things and elders and elder bodies can disguise what's happening. That can happen.

What does this mean? To me it means people are imperfect, some are evil and some are imperfect and evil and you may even run into them in the congregation. You get the sense of who a bro or sister is by a lot of things, and people gravitate towards the ones they resonate with. That's why you have to keep an eye on yourself and your brother.

I remember one older elder grabbed me and took me into a room (I wondered why) and it was because he was accosted by this DF'ed sister who wanted to talk to him (he said he made a rule never to be alone w/a woman not his wife) and I thought that wise.

Everyone has to decide. Do they want to go it alone and try to be a Christian by themselves for fear that the contact with others or an imperfect organization will taint them? Turn them from the way? Or, do they want to be part of a group with whom they are in the most agreement that they can be recognizing that all these things which are wrong in human society can also be wrong and will be wrong in that group?

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17 hours ago, xero said:

(But...they repent (now there was no conditional "Nineveh will overthrown in 40 days UNLESS you repent))

When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened. - Jonah 3 10

God relented, changed his mind and his intention. What if JW preaching service will be faced with same sort of decision about "Armageddon" in the future? 

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6 hours ago, xero said:

As to "playing the game" I'm saying that you're making accusations as if you have knowledge of the contents of another person's head. You don't, so you can't call it a "lie" unless you can prove the intent was to deceive. 

If you read any of my posts here, you would see how I feel about Wt's deception. 

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7 hours ago, Anna said:

As Witness* brought out, we have not always taught the truth. Not only that, but we are still learning. The Bible itself says the light will keep getting brighter, until full daylight.

An untruth never becomes "brighter".  It is pure darkness. (2 Cor 6:14)  So, if the organization has “not always taught the truth”, it has taught a dark lie.  There is absolutely no light of Christ, in a lie that would hint at the possibility of becoming “brighter”.  

And back to the opening scriptures, “trees” were referred to as God's people under covenant - today, it is those of "Israel", the priesthood. (Matt 7:15-20; Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9)  If an anointed leader of yours has repeatedly taught AND predicted, something that was not the truth; unless he leaves off lying by severing himself from the lying organization, (that to this day supports the previous leaders who spoke their lies), he will always teach lies. He will always produce "bad fruit". 

The organization to this day, does not teach “the truth”.

7 hours ago, Anna said:

(*Witness is no longer a JW herself, so naturally most of what she says is in direct and bitter opposition to what she used to believe to be the Truth). 

"bitter"?  Why is it when someone brings Wt's lies to the fore, they are viewed as  "bitter"? 

Listen to Paul, and tell me, were his words bitter?

The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete. 2 Cor 10:4-6

I am thankful to God and Jesus Christ,  that I am no longer subservient to men, and to their lies. (Isa 51:21-23; Matt 24:48-51; Rev 18:4-8)

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1 hour ago, Witness said:

I am thankful to God and Jesus Christ,  that I am no longer subservient to men, and to their lies. (Isa 51:21-23; Matt 24:48-51; Rev 18:4-8)

Fortunately I never acquiesced to any organization. I used my own God-given conscience from the moment I walked into a kingdom hall. Some have left because they felt they needed to, and some have stayed. There is no universal response. It isn't even necessary for me to spend time defending an organization. Instead I'd rather spend it learning more about the Bible, bible history, archaeology, textual analysis and trying to better frame answers which help people who are looking for good answers to the emotional problem of evil. (the logical one already dealt with).

Can a person be a Christian w/o attachment to an organization?

I'm certain they can, but it's quite hard, and then one wonders what the point of it all is if there is not at least one other person? "When two or more are gathered in my name..."

If one does decide to associate in some way with a group, even a nondenominational one, the chances are quite likely these believe, and quite strongly so, that anything you've "learned" in association w/Jehovah's Witnesses is tainted, and needs to be expunged from your mind. (Is literally "everything you learned" wrong?)

There simply aren't any groups of people who won't in one way or another apply pressure to you to believe the things they believe, or remain silent where you don't. The tyrannical elements w/in people are too strong to keep in check. They always surface.

As an exercise, type up your list of core beliefs and compare these to the myriad groups around. Can you find one which accords w/your core beliefs in every way?

If you can, then consider yourself fortunate, because I haven't yet found a person associating w/a religious group yet who embraces fully every thing the "leadership" ("call no one leader, rabbi, father" - Mt 23:8-10) teaches.

Just thinking out loud here, but I think some of the reasons some who have left don't really leave (besides having the annoyance of family members still in) are 1. The time spent is viewed as an investment which didn't pan out as expected and loss aversion is forcing a return (you might think, to one's 'vomit' - Pr. 26:11) ...but it's the economics fallacy of the sunk cost (but consider, was there no gain?) 2. There are no other places where these can go where anyone can even begin to understand what it means to actually BE one of Jehovah's Witnesses - It's a love-hate relationship, and no one in the world can begin to understand if they haven't been there 3. Very close to the previously mentioned...The loss of so much variety and association over years (along with memories that one cannot expunge from one's own head which are so damningly pleasant) which is missed one needs the contact to work out the "poison", to reframe the experiences which are there inside. In this these often find people who will engage them in such a way so as to reinforce the reasons these left.

It's unfortunate that this is what it is. The human condition. Longing for a full realization of a utopia which looks as if it will never come, and damning the mirage for "tricking us" into believing to was real, and not only real, but about to become real for everyone on the planet.

It's difficult for people to leave, no doubt. I've known a few. Some have embraced ideas which they would have strongly objected to on scriptural grounds years ago, some have lost all faith in God and become atheists or agnostics. This is a shame to me. It's like getting so close and because of blemishes real or imagined these abandon all faith, and the beautiful vision of the future under the kingdom. I applaud those who don't lose their faith and perhaps there are quite a number of these - I don't know, but I hope so. I can't help but believe that the lesson of understanding that mistaking an organization for the actualization of God's kingdom is one that these are going to have to learn at some point. When they do, I'm hoping they can let the anger go. If there is discipline to be meted out to organizations or individuals in organizations I'd say to remember Jesus, when he had a dispute w/Satan about the disposition of Moses body - "May Jehovah rebuke you" and if there's rebuking to be done, he'll certainly do it.

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13 hours ago, xero said:

As an exercise, type up your list of core beliefs

Oh my goodness, you have asked this of Witness?

1 I hate the GB

2 I’m a better anointed than they are.

3 I hate the GB

4 I’m a better anointed than they are.

5. I hate the GB

6. I’m a better anointed than they are.

7. I hate the GB

8. I’m a better anointed than they are.

9. I hate the GB

10. I’m a better anointed than they are.

Well, after all, you are new here. And expressing yourself so well.

It is remarkable that, scan her entries as you will, you will find virtually nothing of what she actually believes. All you will find is attacks on the Witness organization.

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33 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Oh my goodness, you have asked this of Witness?

1 I hate the GB

2 I’m a better anointed than they are.

3 I hate the GB

4 I’m a better anointed than they are.

5. I hate the GB

6. I’m a better anointed than they are.

7. I hate the GB

8. I’m a better anointed than they are.

9. I hate the GB

10. I’m a better anointed than they are.

Well, after all, you are new here. And expressing yourself so well.

It is remarkable that, scan her entries as you will, you will find virtually nothing of what she actually believes. All you will find is attacks on the Witness organization.

That last post was as much a bit of self-analysis as it was of anyone else. I'm sure anyone who's been associated has gone through some dark moments.

Reminds me of David, "a man after God's own heart", the beloved and how he actually left to work as a mercenary for the philistine king of Gath when he was being hunted by the anointed of Jehovah - Saul (his dark moments), and how he vowed not to lift up his hand against the anointed of Jehovah, and how Jehovah helped him to fulfill that oath when it seemed he might fail in that regard when he was on his way to fight w/the Philistines when at Aphek the men w/Achish complained and he was sent along w/his men back to where they'd been. This prevented David from being in the battle. But it also may have sent a signal that there might have been a rearward attack which interestingly may have led to Saul's forces not covering the entrance to the Jezreel Valley leading to his ultimate death on Mt Gilboa - Jehovah's judgment.

Some people may feel the need to flee from whatever persecution they may be feeling (whether real or imagined) but leaving the judgment to Jehovah strikes me as the course of wisdom. Even non-JWs like Stephen Covey (I remember an illustration of his) said "chasing the serpent is what drives the poison to the heart".

So maybe you got bit, and maybe you got yourself bit unknowingly by poking your hand into some "hole" the advice not to return evil for evil (or even perceived evil) is good advice for anyone.

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On 2/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

A lot of this are what I'd call "Red Herrings"

8 men calling themselves the Faithful and Discreet Slave and exalting themselves above every perosn living here on this Earth. And those 8 men exalt themseves over the True Anointed ones. Luke 14 : 11. 

On 2/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

Let's suppose you're right. That all this was a power issue. Whom did they have power over?

Well it started with Russell who had the power and leadership. Then Rutherford whom many 'brothers' hated, and i believe some of them left, but he certainly showed his lust for power. And this lust has remained right through to today. 

On 2/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

What did it get them? Money? Fame?

Yes, power over 8½ million people, money and fame.  The selling of all the old property in USA brought in so much cash, then building Warwick made them famous, and next is the big 'film studio' they are planning to build.  They are already famous for all the videos etc. 

On 2/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

I never once believed something because the organization said something was so.

The Watchtower Study Edition is printed solely for the purpose of dictating to the congregation exactly what it WILL BELIEVE. And it therefor follows it also dictates what JW will preach to others. 

On 2/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

I didn't see the point with arguing about "tabs vs spaces" as it all compiled the same.

If it is of so little consequence to you then you cannot be a very spiritual person.  BUT IMO it is the True Anointed that will have the true spiritual guidance, not the 'boots on the ground' JWs. 

On 2/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

I wasn't baptized into the WTS.

Really ? How strange. So, did your Baptism include the words I've highlighted in this scripture ?  "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,"  as Jesus instructed and recorded at, Matthew 28 :19. 

As for the rest of your drivel, it's not really worth the time to reply to, just to say that you are obviously a 'company man' doing the will of your GB. You don't seem to have any knowledge of the CSA Earthwide problem, probably because it frightens you. Do you have any knowledge of the 25 year Pedophile Database you GB and their Lawyers are hiding ?  it's all kept hidden from the congregations. If they don't go looking for info' they will never know. 

 

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      Cinquièmement, le courage, est le courant qui aide à te reprendre dans les moments difficiles où la vision de tes buts que tu entreprends devient très ardu. Il t'aide à ne pas baisser les bras dans les moments où tu ne vois plus la manière de franchir une étape, un examen de conscience qui illumine ta pensée à trouver une solution réfléchit et te dire, je vais être capable de réussir. Le courage est le deuxième souffle dans ta course vers le sommet de ta personnalité intérieure.
      Sixièmement, La force fait partie du courage, l'un ne va pas sans l'autre. Le courage est le souffle, l'oxygène qui activera ta force intérieure. La force t'aide à gravir les montagnes et même à certaine étape de ta vie à soulever les montagnes pour trouver les trésors qui y sont enfouis. La force te donne la chance à balayer les nuages de la tempête et de retrouver la chaleur du soleil du bonheur venant de Dieu.
      La septième étapes , la maîtrise de soi, une vertu qui est au sommet de ces étapes intérieures. La maîtrise de soi est l'étape ultime de ta vie  (les actions justes) car par cette vertue plus rien ne fera barrière dans le chemin que tu auras voulu suivre, car les épreuves que tu auras surmonté, te guidera à devenir maître de toi même et ne faire qu'un avec toi même, unis à Dieu et à son Roi.
      La maîtrise de soi te donnera un trésor inestimable qui est celui de l'harmonie. Équanimité ( équilibre parfait) dans tous les sens de ton âme. Tu trouveras la beauté ultime de chaques éléments de la vie, ta conscience sera dans ta pensée comme un métronome parfait; La vrai vie celle de nos rêves deviendra réalité, nous deviendrons un être de lumière. La lumière qui sommeillait en toi jaïllira de toute ta personne.
      Même dans la nuit des plus grandes tempêtes, tu seras un phare éblouissant de Dieu.
       
      SUIVRENT LES INSTRUCTIONS DE NOTRE DIEU JÉHOVAH NOUS MÈNE VERS LE VRAI BONHEUR CELUI DE LA VIE ÉTERNELLE.
      2 Timothée 3: 16-17, Proverbes chapitre 1-3,Galantes 5:22,23  1Corinthien 13: 4-(8 premier phrase)
       



      · 0 replies
    • LAWRENCE THOMAS  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      do you have the videos of the rejoice with jehovah's 2021
      · 1 reply
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